A bad BMW story, but found a good mechanic

[Osm3um]

Long story, but if you can stand it, I could use some advice.

 

In short, I sold all of my bikes/scooters to purchase a 2004 RT form a dealer. (not the closest dealer, if you are wise enough to look up my location). My primary goal is a saddle sore, iron butt ride, by the end of the year.

 

I test drive it, smile and sign the paperwork. As I hop on to drive away the bike would not start. Mind you I have already signed off and payed for it, it is after closing so the everyone has gone home except myself and the sales person. He gives me a loaner and I drive home on a brand new 1200R.

 

The following week I run up to pick up the bike as the sales person states that they have gone through the bike with a fine toothed comb and all is well. Among the items he states were fixed was a new starter, injectors synced, and valves. I drive home in a rush and get home with my hands tingling like I had been using a chainsaw.

 

I make complaints and get responses such as "RTs do vibrate", "I test road it and it seemed fine to me" etc.

 

I post some stuff to the iron butt board and a Goldwing rider states he knows a good BMW mechanic in the town I work in. This guy touches the throttle, and begins to rattle of the problems with a glazed look in his eye and a smile. It is hard to explain but it is very obvious he doesn't just work on BMWs, he lives them.

 

For what i thought was a overly reasonable price, he adjusted the throttle bodies (says they were off, no doubt) and adjusts the valves stating the right side valves were "tighter than shit" AND the starter has never been replaced. I drive off and the difference is amazing.

 

The advice I need is: What should I do? The dealer flat out lied to my face (at least regarding the starter). Yet I was not charged for the imaginary repairs. I did spend $200 getting work done after the fact, but do not regret it as the mechanic is truly amazing.

 

Anyway, that is my story and if you have any suggestions (non violent) I would appreciate it.

 

Next stop Saddle Store 1000.

Bob

 

 

[Tony_K]

 

Sales is sales... forget about it.

 

Love the bike, ride the bike.

 

[Richard_D]

Bring or send him the bill certified mail and try to get the $200 back with a notorized statement from your mechanic. If and when you do, let him know you were lied to in another certified letter and if he doesn't compensate you in some form, let him know you will be telling your story about them on BMWST. I hate liars with a passion. The best thing a dealer did to me was piss me off. It forced me to learn how to do all my own work on my 04 RT. I have sice helped a number of friends work on theirs and teach them too. http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/

[duketr4]

Providing i read correctly, a new starter is new starter - what's wrong with people ?

 

Annoyance factor extreme.

[Paul Mihalka]

I would let sleeping dogs lie and go on and enjoy the bike. It's not worth having a PO mind for weeks while you are discussing it with the dealer. Go riding!

[David R]

I doubt you will get any satisfaction. All you are going to do is aggravate your self. I am a mechanic and I will not sign anything saying some one else did shitty work. Figure the bike cost $200 more than you expected. Nobody wins a pissing contest.

 

Enjoy it. You bought a nice machine that will give you years of joy.

 

On a side note, the guy that fixed right charged a fair price and made it right. Obviously the dealer couldn't.

 

Congrats on the new member of the family!

 

David

[bmw_rider]

You seem unwilling to reveal which dealer was involved?

[John in NC]

I would let the dealer know what you had to do to get the bike running right. Every 6000 miles I tune mine up and I swear it is like a new bike every time afterwards. Also, go to the Autolite APP3923 plugs for the primary and you will notice a difference. (for the good).

[LPR1100RT]

A dealer lie! Kidding, it comes with the profession. No way to get anything out of this that I see. Most repair shops won't go against other shops in writing it becomes a pissing contest that they can't be bothered with. I would get the dealer to give you a receipt stating that they replaced the starter in the odd ball chance it should fail at least they would have to cover that for a period of time. Otherwise ride have fun with that bike!

[T__]

Bob, you just got a very valuable lesson in dealing with motor vehicle sales people..

 

First,, go back & re-read the responses you got in your first thread here about buying a bike from a dealer..

 

I presume you didn’t press them for a 90 day guarantee?

 

My suggestion would be to FIRST go back to the dealer you bought the bike from & look that salesman right in the eye & tell him what was found by the independent mechanic.. Don’t go in mad just go in & confront the guy & ask POLITELY what he is going to do to make it right with you! How he responds will dictate your next move.. If he doesn’t respond to your satisfaction then have a one on one with the business owner.. Don’t get mad just state the facts & your dissatisfaction with his business ethics..

 

Maybe before going back to the dealer call your State’s attorney general & ask what recourse you have against the selling dealer.. Maybe you have some recourse under your state’s law & maybe you don’t.. If you do have an avenue through the attorney general be sure to mention that to the salesman (and/or owner) only IF they don’t do something to make it right with you..

 

Also keep in mind there is a good chance the independent mechanic enhanced his findings a little to impress you (that happens all the time in the repair business)..

 

In any case,, if the place you bought the bike from is an upright business they will do something to try & make it right with you.. If they just give you the run-around & make silly excuses then you should never deal there again..

 

Personally I would then have a little talk with the business owner about his business ethics & vow to do everything in your power to cost him at least one motorcycle sale a week.. Be very polite & don’t threaten or make a scene just look him straight in the eye & quietly make him your personal promise.. Then politely tell him to remember you at bankruptcy time & slowly walk out to never return..

 

Don’t at any time raise your voice or get shouting mad.. They will just presume you are blowing off steam.. Quiet business-like factual statements will more than likely show them you are serious & are apt to follow up through proper channels.. DO get all names involved (including the mechanic that supposedly did the starter work) & be sure to write the names down as you have them spell their names for you (ask them to spell their names even if you already know the proper spelling as that shows you mean business & are apt to follow though)..

 

Lets hope the dealer has some scruples & will do something to make you happy..

 

 

Twisty

 

[RPG]

1) send this post to the salesman and don't expect a reply

2) ride the bike

3) stay in touch with your new mechanic

 

RPG

[TandemGeek]

The advice I need is: What should I do? The dealer flat out lied to my face (at least regarding the starter). Yet I was not charged for the imaginary repairs. I did spend $200 getting work done after the fact, but do not regret it as the mechanic is truly amazing.

 

The real question is, what do you want from the dealer?

 

If you want to prove deceptive practices, ask to see the service department's repair order for the work performed: even if the sales dept. asked for the work the time and materials would have had to be documented on an R.O. just to keep their records straight.

 

If it was me, at a minimum I would contact the salesman and say, here's the deal... providing with the same story you just provided us in terms of what YOU discovered based on a post sale inspection of the bike. But, here again... to what end? What are you expecting the salesman / dealership to do for you? Do you want them to merely cover your expense of $200? Again, that's all anyone at the dealership will need to know.

 

Lacking satisfaction with the salesman, if it was a large dealership I'd give the Sales Manager a shot before going to the owner... if it was a small business I'd go right to the owner and once again lay out the facts and tell them what I was looking for as consideration to resolve the matter.

 

I wouldn't invest a lot of time or effort... certainly not more than a couple hours because at some point the value of your time and energy will exceed the $200 that remains the tangible issue here. As others have said, the bold-faced "lie" will easily become a simple mis-communication between the sales and service dept. that you will be hard pressed to disprove even with an R.O. in hand: at most you'll extract an apology, sincere or otherwise.

 

Bottom Line: As a consumer you get to vote with your wallet going forward and your experience will likely not cause you to steer others to this dealer for their needs... if there is an alternative in reasonable distance. The latter is really your only leverage.

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

You seem unwilling to reveal which dealer was involved?

 

That's typically not the style of this place. Most of us reserve the names of the places involved until a final solution/satisfaction has been achieved. Bad mouthing places with one-sided stories (mind you, we almost never hear the other side) doesn't achieve anything in the long run, and may hurt whatever it is you're trying to accomplish if the other party finds out about your posts on the internet.

[NonComp]

You didn't mention if this was a BMW dealer? The work that your mechanic did for you would probably have cost you $800 at a BMW dealer. If you are happy with the result then be happy and move on. And the salesman will probably tell you, "Oh, I didn't say we put a NEW starter in the bike. I said we REPLACED the starter. We had one from another bike that was just fine."

 

When I bought my r1100r from a Honda dealer it was waiting on parts for a clutch replacement. I negotiated a deal with the dealer to buy the bike as is and to buy the parts at the dealer's cost. The dealer charged me $800 for the clutch parts. Inadvertently, the parts guy showed me the paperwork for the parts (that were ordered from the local BMW dealer). Invoice was $560. When I questioned it, they flat-out lied to me. "Ignore the man behind the curtain" said the Great and Powerful Oz.

 

Salesman and politicians.

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

1) ride the bike

2) stay in touch with your new mechanic

 

Fixed!

 

Peace of mind knowing you now have a great mechanic on hand at reasonable rates and know where you should NEVER GO AGAIN is worth the price of admission.

 

Thousands upon thousands of miles down the road, $200 will be a drop in the bucket. Your "new" bike will provide you with many miles of smiles and the extra money you spent will be a distant and faded memory soon. Let it go... after all, if you didn't find this out now, you may have taken the bike back there for service someday- and that would be bad, not to mention far more expensive.

[g_frey]

Oh but you can win a pissing contest. All that is necessary for evil to win is for good men to stand aside.

[Selden]

It's at least worth going back to the dealer to tell them your tale -- especially about the "new" starter. If they listen and do something in compensation, fine; if not, $200 is probably not worth the effort. Keep in mind that, unless you have another dealer nearby, you're probably going to have to go back to this dealer in the future, at least for parts.

 

Since you seem to have found a skilled and honest mechanic, you may want to leave all maintenance to him. On the other hand, if you like to know how things work, find a tech day, and learn how to do your own oil changes (engine, transmission, FD), and adjust the valves/sync TBs. These things are not difficult, don't require a huge investment in tools, and you will have the satisfaction of knowing the job was done right. If no tech day is within a reasonable distance, some mechanics will let you do the work under their supervision -- you would pay the mechanic whatever he would have charged for the job, but in exchange you have obtained valuable knowledge.

[NonComp]

Oh but you can win a pissing contest. All that is necessary for evil to win is for good men to stand aside.

Take it from me: I am the orignal crank. I have fought insurance companies, home reno companies, computer companies (HP and Dell), banks, car companies (Toyota!), cable and Internet and telephone and satellite companies. You name it, I've fought it. I have spent a good part of my life tilting at windmills. The majority of the time, I win.

 

What have I learned? 1)Most companies don't care whether or not they lose a customer. Period. That's because they realize the 20% of their customers cause 80% of the overhead costs, and they are better to shed those customers (and burden their competitors with them) then to try and appease them. 2)Contracts and written agreements are meaningless and unenforcable, unless you are will to hire a lawyer (and I never have). 3)You can expend a bunch of time and energy and emotion, and in the end, the return often isn't worth the time lost or the stress. 4)Almost no one gives a s**t about the moral high ground -- the rightness or wrongness of the thing. Most people don't even get the concept.

 

Choose your battles.

[NumbHands]

Ethical behavior is just a concept these days for the most part. Witness our way-too-big financial industry's recent and current behavior.

 

OK, I am digressing from the thread.

 

Not sure I would present my complaint to the sales person. Perhaps his/her boss or the manager of the dealership.

 

 

[4wheeldog]

I am too likely to lose my temper in a face to face discussion of this type. But I write great letters. In this case, I would write my letter to the owner of the agency. The point would be to let him know what his underlings are up to.......Though he is likely fully aware.

Then I would let it go. Whenever the subject of this particular agency came up, I would tell my tale.....And let the listener decide what they should do. Karma is a bitch.

The bike will be fine, and the $200 was a reasonable price to pay for it it be checked over and tuned correctly.

[tallman]

You don't list your location, but say "(not the closest dealer, if you are wise enough to look up my location). "

You take the word of one mechanic over the salesman, without provoding proof.

Merely saying the starter hasn't been replaced doesn't mean anything and he could be mistaken.

Are you saying the bike rode differently on the test ride and when you returned to pick it up?

That would've been the time to stop and sort out any issues, IMO.

 

Glad you have found a good mechanic, enjoy the RT.

[Osm3um]

You seem unwilling to reveal which dealer was involved?

 

I don't think that would be appropriate, at least at this point.

Bob

[Osm3um]

First,, go back & re-read the responses you got in your first thread here about buying a bike from a dealer..

 

I recall that discussion, but was kind of stuck trying to sell a used bike (or trade it in).

 

Regardless, I had them "perform these items" and replace the starter before driving away. I expected that items had been completed.

 

Thanks for your replies, I guess I did learn a lesson.

Bob

[Osm3um]

Couple points of interest:

 

I appreciate all of the replies. At the very least it has given an opportunity to "blow some steam".

 

The best mechanic I have ever had was a Volkswagen mechanic who ran his shop from inside a small strip mall/storage unit with one little tiny sign.

 

This BMW mechanic is similar, except he doesn't even have a sign. He performs the motorcycle work just because he likes it, not because he needs the cash. All of his customers are by "word of mouth". I had to urged him to accept more money that he wanted to charge me as my guess was he put more time in that he stated (he later agreed that he underestated the time spent because of my situation). That, to me, means something.

 

"The real question is, what do you want from the dealer?"--

Not sure, maybe a new starter I can hang on my wall?

At the very least to let them know I am "hip" to the situation.

 

There is a major dilemma with bad mouthing a company. I always try to be repspectful as I have learned that if you treat people well they will help you more than if you yell! Everytime I call a "customer rep" for anything, first thing I do is ask them how their day is. I get the feeling that kind of blows them away as I doubt they hear that often.

 

I am going to be careful as I may end up in their show room sometime in the future, maybe a tech session, maybe a talk, whatever. I tend to handle stuff like this with a very calm attitude and try to not make enemies.

 

I don't mean to imply that in the whole scope of things it is a life changing issue and the money to get it tuned up is not a major amount. But there is something to be said about morals. I truly expect that treating others with respect is a requirement in one's life.

 

I mean they aren't a Harley dealer for goodness sake! (That was a joke BTW).

 

Thanks for everything, drive safe,

Bob

[11101110]

Oh but you can win a pissing contest. All that is necessary for evil to win is for good men to stand aside.

I won one against Liberty Mutual (at fault driver's insurance co) and a body shop which I am not allowed to name, hey I got 91% of my money back I really don't care anymore. But letters work miracles in my case a few to the insurance company and a 45 pager to the body shop. I guess that is actually two.

 

I think the business owner should know that you were told something was done and it either wasn't or wasn't done correctly. He should at least be made aware that he has a dishonest sales man or incompetent or dishonest mechanic.

[NonComp]

Just to let you know, the starter lists at US$350 to $390 depending on the part number, according to the Hammersley online parts fiche:

 

http://www.webparts.com/diagram.php?btnr=12_1017&mospid=47981&hg=12&fg=15

[peterbulgar]

The starter issue could just be a miscommunication between the salesperson and the mechanic - maybe the mechanic said that it might need a starter when the sales guy described the problem. In any case it seems that you didn't need a starter.

 

Look at it this way: You spent $200 more than you'd planned for the bike, but you found a super honest and skilled mechanic. I'd gladly pay that.

peter '73 R75/5, '04 R1150RA

[g_nuse]

WWMHD?

[mbelectric]

WWMHD?

 

Uhhh....Buy a new bike?

 

 

MB>

[Osm3um]

Just an update:

 

I had a very calm conversation with the sales person and they are offering to pay the post sales tune up bill if I can supply a receipt.

 

I voiced my concerns of not being welcome on the property again and he stated to not worry about it, the whole thing is a minor, albeit embarassing, problem.

 

He further stated that the starter was not "new" but was a used unit they had laying around.

 

I am going to try and forget the whole thing, the RT runs fine now, and I am going to start scheduling my iron butt this weekend.

 

Thanks again for your opinions,

Bob

[Selden]

I'm glad to hear things worked out; you found a good mechanic, and didn't destroy your relationship with the dealer. It sounds like most of the problem was mis-communication, rather than sharp practices, and that the dealership is making an effort to retain you as a customer.

[NonComp]

That seems reasonable. A happy ending. And the starter explanation is probably the truth. Or, it really didn't need one in the first place. Either way. It's a lot more galling to be charged for a new part and then find out that they actually installed one that was lying around. Been there too...

[Cycledude]

Just an update:

 

I had a very calm conversation with the sales person and they are offering to pay the post sales tune up bill if I can supply a receipt.

 

I voiced my concerns of not being welcome on the property again and he stated to not worry about it, the whole thing is a minor, albeit embarassing, problem.

 

He further stated that the starter was not "new" but was a used unit they had laying around.

 

I am going to try and forget the whole thing, the RT runs fine now, and I am going to start scheduling my iron butt this weekend.

 

Thanks again for your opinions,

Bob

 

So where are you planning your iron butt? Good luck and remember to pace yourself.

 

Snowy.

[tallman]

Thanks for the clarifications.

I get tired of people jumping in on threads like this and painting all sales people with a broad brush of deceit and dishonor.

Most situations are pretty straightforward and easy to work out.

Good luck w/your IB ride.

Best wishes.

 

[TandemGeek]

 

Excellent outcome; win-win and clear conscience.

[moshe_levy]

Count yourself lucky. Most, me included, piss away thousands before discovering a truly good mechanic, which is rarer than the proverbial needle in the haystack. Yours was a small price to pay. Be sure to stay in touch with him, and give him your business, parts as well as labor. Keep those local gems in business.

 

-MKL

[g_nuse]

I was hoping we would get to find out who this "good mechanic" is and possibly get the benefit of his good work.

[Dan M]

I was hoping we would get to find out who this "good mechanic" is and possibly get the benefit of his good work.

 

Right, there may be others in your area who need a good independent mechanic.

You say he gets his business by word of mouth. Why not help him out in that way?

[Osm3um]

Am doing the IB ss1000 on/around 25th/26th.

 

Quite a dilemma. He works out of a small storage unit, no receipts, no business phone, no business name etc. If I can build a relationship with him I will feel more comfortable spreading his contact info. I will ask him if I can post his info next time I see him.

 

A short story: While I was there chatting with him he was pointing at an air head that had overheated, cylinders were heavily worn etc. He went on to describe that he had to hand file the rings to fit (something like that). Something to do with hard to find parts and the owner being a student without much cash.

 

Now, I am not a mechanic by any stretch, but that struck me as an impressive gig, someone who cares and an indication of his interest in doing things right, etc. Is that sort of modification something that is normal?

 

Bob

 

PS He is on the west coast. If you really need some info, PM me and I will try to contact him. I am going to drop off a case of beer after my ride next week.

[Dan M]

Am doing the IB ss1000 on/around 25th/26th.

 

 

 

A short story: While I was there chatting with him he was pointing at an air head that had overheated, cylinders were heavily worn etc. He went on to describe that he had to hand file the rings to fit (something like that). Something to do with hard to find parts and the owner being a student without much cash.

 

Now, I am not a mechanic by any stretch, but that struck me as an impressive gig, someone who cares and an indication of his interest in doing things right, etc. Is that sort of modification something that is normal?

 

Bob

 

 

Piston ring end gap has to be checked when replacing rings. Filing them to get the proper gap is a normal part of the job.

[yabadabapal]

Count your blessings and move on.