Oilhead Hooning??????

[Whip]

As some of you may know I've been riding a R1150GS Adventure. As I ride it and experiment with it's handling I find that the fastest line through a corner is different than on my past bikes and even my Katoom.

 

The GSA doesn't have the exit strength, so going in late and throwin the bike over to straighten it up and get on the gas ASAP doesn't have the same kinda results. So I started using a new line. Keeping my speed up while starting as wide as possible then apex the corner sooner and using the outer edge of the lane/road to complete the turn. This keeps my overall corner speed pretty high. This is awful on the Tuono, but on the GSA it really seems to work good.

 

It comes down to straightening the road out and keeping your speed up.

 

 

Thoughts????

[Paul Mihalka]

Hey, this is exactly how I rode my 40hp Grand Prix bike. The important thing was to carry the maximum possible speed through the corner because that reflected on the whole following straight. As hard braking into the apex (195x brakes) and hard accelerating out of the turn (40 hp) was not available, maintaining speed was everything.

This is also how I rode my '86 K75 in many Reg Pridmore CLASS events surprising a few high powered bikes.

[Whip]

Thanks Paul

 

You put it into words using your experience that makes more sense than what I said.

 

[dhanson]

The little 250cc motogp bikes do this also, kinda fun to watch in relation to the liter bikes.

[roadscholar]

Momentum. That's the technique for underpowered bikes or racecars. You do whatever necessary to get the power down as early as possible. Braking early lets you carry more speed thru the corner which translates to higher exit speed which has a big effect on your speed at the end of the straight.

 

Some racetracks are momentum courses (Road Atlanta, Roebling, Summit Pt., Lime Rock) and some are horsepower courses (Daytona, Sebring) and some are combinations (Road America, Watkins Glen, and Mid-Ohio). Add steep hills to the equation and momentum is all you've got.

 

Larry, I think I see the problem. You've only ever had powerful bikes. Some of us had to work our way up to that.

 

 

 

[Twisties]

Basically, if I understand you, you are giving up the safety of a "Ridesmart" style late apex for a classic racing line. You are reducing your vision through the turn. Again, if I understand you. How about a couple of diagrams?

[Firefight911]

Exactly as Paul states it.

 

This is the part where it becomes more fun to ride a slow bike fast than it is to ride a fast bike slow.

 

My bet is that you (Larry) will become a better rider with this line. You will be carrying more speed into and through the corner.

 

Watch the 125cc and 250cc GP bikes and then compare them to the 500cc 2-stroke era GP bikes and you will see exactly what you are describing.

 

I am really looking forward to riding with you and your GSA!!!!!! This is gonna be F-U-N!!!

[russell_bynum]

Exactly as Paul states it.

 

This is the part where it becomes more fun to ride a slow bike fast than it is to ride a fast bike slow.

 

My bet is that you (Larry) will become a better rider with this line. You will be carrying more speed into and through the corner.

 

Watch the 125cc and 250cc GP bikes and then compare them to the 500cc 2-stroke era GP bikes and you will see exactly what you are describing.

 

I am really looking forward to riding with you and your GSA!!!!!! This is gonna be F-U-N!!!

 

Yeah, but that all comes at a price...more time spent leaned over and higher corner speed. That means more chances for things to go wrong and more severe consequences when they do.

 

Don't get me wrong...I'm certainly no stranger to hooning on an oilhead . I led Gleno UP Sweeper Madness once on Lisa's R1100RS while he was on his GSX-R1000...and didn't hold him up at all. I basically turned onto 72, pinned the throttle, and didn't let it up until we got to the other side. Ever spin the rear over a tar snake at redline in 5th gear....with the valve cover guard skimming the asphalt? Riding like that can be huge fun.

 

I'm just sayin....be aware that this style brings with it certain risks that you don't have with a point and shoot style/bike like the Tuono. What Jan said about diminished sight lines is also true, though it might not matter depending on the road and terrain.

[Firefight911]

I agree with what you say completely Russell.

 

In context, the comments I made are based on a very intimate knowledge of the rider (Whip) and how he rides (very safely) and how I trust him off my inside through a corner (implicitly).

 

I also will qualify the statement further by acknowledging the risks inherent and also that the choice of location is always considered.

 

Ultimately, we will both ride our own ride and take full responsibility for our own actions and not expect someone else to do it for us.

[StuGotz]

Ultimately, we will both ride our own ride and take full responsibility for our own actions and not expect someone else to do it for us.

 

Nicely put Phil...In the meantime, ya need someone to exercise the K13 for ya??

 

 

Psst....there's a private meet at the salt comin' up....

 

MB>

[russell_bynum]

I agree with what you say completely Russell.

 

In context, the comments I made are based on a very intimate knowledge of the rider (Whip) and how he rides (very safely) and how I trust him off my inside through a corner (implicitly).

 

I also will qualify the statement further by acknowledging the risks inherent and also that the choice of location is always considered.

 

Ultimately, we will both ride our own ride and take full responsibility for our own actions and not expect someone else to do it for us.

 

Fo sho.

 

I don't worry about Larry, and I'd definitely follow him just about anywhere (except off into the gravel when the road makes a 90-degree turn. )

 

I was just pointing out the implications of that technique. You've also got to be very committed when you're carrying that much speed through the corners. One lapse in concentration and you're in it deep.

[Whip]

@Russell

 

It ain't somethin I would do all the time, but "Sweeper Madness" and "Fish Lake" are right around the corner and I think it would work real good. 12 has too many semi blind corner where the sight lines are sketchy so ... prolly not so much. Though on right turns I think Ridesmart/Hough do put ya at risk from the head on center line crosser that a little earlier turn in would save ya from.

 

Just Sayin

 

 

 

 

[russell_bynum]

72 is ideal for that since it's got basically unlimited sight lines. Fish Lake to a lesser degree, but yeah...you get the point.

[Twisties]

@Russell

 

It ain't somethin I would do all the time, but "Sweeper Madness" and "Fish Lake" are right around the corner and I think it would work real good. 12 has too many semi blind corner where the sight lines are sketchy so ... prolly not so much. Though on right turns I think Ridesmart/Hough do put ya at risk from the head on center line crosser that a little earlier turn in would save ya from.

 

Just Sayin

 

 

 

 

Yes, I often wonder about that on the right turns. Very questionable as to which is really safer, and it most certainly does depend on the turn. On CA-49 near Phil's house vision is critical. On sweeper, well that's why sweeper is sweeper. Sight lines!

[russell_bynum]

@Russell

 

It ain't somethin I would do all the time, but "Sweeper Madness" and "Fish Lake" are right around the corner and I think it would work real good. 12 has too many semi blind corner where the sight lines are sketchy so ... prolly not so much. Though on right turns I think Ridesmart/Hough do put ya at risk from the head on center line crosser that a little earlier turn in would save ya from.

 

Just Sayin

 

 

 

 

Yes, I often wonder about that on the right turns. Very questionable as to which is really safer, and it most certainly does depend on the turn. On CA-49 near Phil's house vision is critical. On sweeper, well that's why sweeper is sweeper. Sight lines!

 

Late apex means you see the oncoming center-line crosser sooner, AND you're going slower. Plus, it is much more advantageous if the turn tightens up...again, since you'll be going slower and have more road and lean angle to work with. If you take an early turn-in when you can't see the exit, and the turn tightens up, you're already in and leaned, rolling on the gas, and you don't have anywhere to go but wide and about all you can do is add lean angle and/or brake...both of those use traction.

 

I'll take late apex and slower entry when sight lines are limited.

[Bill_Walker]

Dunno, Larry. Late apex, flick in, and then roll on gobs of throttle works real well for me on the oilhead. I seem to recall keeping up with you on the Katoom pretty well on Fish Lake. Though the RT geometry might be slightly different from the GS. It's too late for me to look up specs.

[Whip]

Dunno, Larry. Late apex, flick in, and then roll on gobs of throttle works real well for me on the oilhead. I seem to recall keeping up with you on the Katoom pretty well on Fish Lake. Though the RT geometry might be slightly different from the GS. It's too late for me to look up specs.

 

 

 

 

I remember, and the Katoom is faster and lighter than the GS. I don't know about the geometry either.

 

 

I hear Fish Lake calling us now.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bill_Walker]

When are you getting to Torrey? I'm looking more IN every day.

[Bill_Walker]

R1150RT Rake/Trail: 27.2 degrees/4.8 in.

R1150GSA Rake & Trail Angles: 26.2 / 121 mm (4.8 inches)

 

So, the GS oughta turn in quicker, no?

[Whip]

R1150RT Rake/Trail: 27.2 degrees/4.8 in.

R1150GSA Rake & Trail Angles: 26.2 / 121 mm (4.8 inches)

 

So, the GS oughta turn in quicker, no?

 

It's kinda hard for me to say..."turn in quick" and "GS" in the same sentence, but if you say so.

 

 

 

 

[russell_bynum]

R1150RT Rake/Trail: 27.2 degrees/4.8 in.

R1150GSA Rake & Trail Angles: 26.2 / 121 mm (4.8 inches)

 

So, the GS oughta turn in quicker, no?

 

It's kinda hard for me to say..."turn in quick" and "GS" in the same sentence, but if you say so.

 

 

 

 

Compared to a Tuono? No.

 

Compared to an RT? Fo sho.

[philbytx]

Like Paul said, try racing a 40+ HP onelunger with iffy brakes and skinny tyres . It's all about momentum maintenance.

 

Anyway, you need to come ride the Three Sisters on that bike of yours Whip

 

Come on down y'all, let's get rid of those chicken strips

[Lone_RT_rider]

I'm reading this and having flashbacks to a day where a bunch of us on oilheads were hoon'in down 28 heading south out of deals gap. All of us were basically carrying all the speed we could through the corners and keeping the RPM's up so that the R1100's could come out with what little they have. We had one guy with us on the pre-2005 generation of the K1200 (K1200RS I think) that was braking like crazy and throttling out with every bit of the 130 HP he had. He was in the middle of the 5 of us and the back three had to sit him down when we stopped on 74 to discuss the finer points of our riding style. We were nice about it, but he hung back after that so we weren't crawling up on his posterior coming into every curve.

 

Different bikes require different riding styles... Even my R1200RT has a different corner entrance strategy than my R1100RT.

 

Be safe out there!

[motoguy128]

Sounds like the same technique I used when I had a '91 Toyota Tercel with a whopping 88HP. Momentum, momentum, momentum. On freeway on ramps, I'd have to back way off from the car in front on me so I could take hte corner at say 60mph, then be able to accerate on the short stright in the merge lane to 70mph. Most drivers instead take the on ramp at 40mph (If even that) then wait unitil the steering wheel is straight, then punch it with their big V6's or V8's.... or simply arrive at the end of hte ramp 10mph below the flow of traffic and either cut someone off create a pile-up or hit their brakes. Yikes! (we've all seen this scenerio).

 

IT also reminds me of a couple trackdays where I had a 600 and I was riding with another guy on a 1000 running the same lap times, except they carried more speed at the end of the strights and I had to set them up for a pass under braking or up the inside in one of the tighter corners. It was a fun cat & mouse game.

[Bologna]

Real GS turns...

 

 

[Matts_12GS]

Must

Resist

Own

Stupidity...