Sick about the Station Fire

[AdventurePoser]

The recent Station Fire burned over 25% of the Angeles National Forest including some of the most spectacular mountain scenery close to us Angelenos...

 

Never in my lifetime will I see the magnificent trees, streambeds, incredible mountain bike trails, and vistas that I loved. And, that goes double for the motorcycling. The devastation along the canyon roads is overwhelming.

 

So sad.

http://www.weather.com/newscenter/topstories/todayinweather.html?from=hp_news1#stationwildfire0910

 

 

Best,

Steve

[Kitsap]

I understand.

 

We lost much of the same things back in the 1991 Spokane Fire Storm. To this day the trails and vegetation have still not returned to their former glory. What was worse was the loss of a good friend who was chased down by the flames when her driveway was blocked and she tried to escape on foot.

[JerryMather]

I truly share your sadness. It' a paradise lost for all of us that spent time up there. Fortunately Wrightwood is OK for now, but these guys have got to get a handle on this or we may lose that too.

I've been told that Newcomb's was saved as of last week but a lot of burning has happened around there since then, so I really wonder if it's still standing. All of my friends that worked there left as of last week and can't get back up there yet.

It'll be a different ride once this is over and it's opened up again.

 

There's something on You Tube made by the wife of the guy who runs Mt. Wilson. It's their ride up the front side after the burn, heartbreaking to see all that's lost.

[ESokoloff]

Never in my lifetime will I see ......

 

Thats kinda the hard thing to wrap ones head around and except.

 

But like my buddy keeps telling me, "The forests didn't look like this in the time before aggressive firefighting" so when the big one hits it's TOTAL instead of moderate detestation.

 

The first few years will be rough but I'm sure you (we) will find joy in witnessing the NEW forest emerging from the rubble.

[Huzband]

Okay, so y'all are whinin' about riding & scenic areas lost. I can dig that, but......

 

Last I heard, this fire was considered arson. You guys are bitchin' & moanin' about scenery?!? Get serious!

 

Two firerfighters lost thier lives because of some asswipes, & you're complianing about the veiw from a hilltop.

 

One of my best friends makes his living struggling against this, & I find it offensive that anyone would take such a flippant approach to what's going on.

 

My heartfelt prayers go out every year for the firefighters in California that have to deal with this year after year.

 

[ESokoloff]

 

Not to underscore your points regarding fire fighters Danny, but to many these Mountains were/are like a long time friend.

 

Please respect a period of/for this bereavement.

[Huzband]

Trees grow back. Maybe not in our lifetime, but they do.

 

Firefighters (husbands, fathers, wives, sisters, brothers, etc), never do.

 

I've seen the devistation fire can cause here in Fl. I don't discount it.

 

My point is, it all grows back, except for the lives lost protecting it.

 

Let's not lose sight of what's most important.

[AdventurePoser]

Easy big guy,

 

I was sick watching the film of the recovery of the firefighters bodies and my heart goes out to their suffering families and friends.

 

I guess I didn't make my feelings clear in my post...the forest felt like my personal friend, as it did to countless people who live in it's nearby environs. I walked the trails, fished the streams, mountain biked the trails and rode the twisties. Now, most of this is gone, for generations to come.

 

The loss of the forest feels deep and very personal to me. I wanted to express that in my post, not minimize the loss of human life.

 

Best,

Steve

[BFish]

Steve...i understand where you're coming from in the post. Danny...i understand your point and concur.

 

Collectively, let's not open/deepen any wounds felt by all of us. Anyway it's dissected, the sick bastard(s) who started the fire should be tied to a tree and as the fire approaches let mother nature do her thing.

 

 

[AdventurePoser]

Initially I was going with drawn and quartered...Seriously, I know the actors will be caught-I just hope the punishment fits the crime.

 

Meanwhile, they've been lighting backfires. The smoke is pretty heavy and the ash fallout is pretty thick. Hopefully the weather will cool and get a bit more humid this weekend...

 

Best,

Steve

[Kitsap]

 

Let's not lose sight of what's most important.

 

I don't think we have. The material damage will always be a reminder of those that were taken.

[ragtoplvr]

I do know how you feel. There is nothing that you can do about it, so you can choose to shift your attitude.

 

You get to watch the Forest regenerate. There will be more open vistas with flowers and plant variety. It will be beautiful and fascinating in it's own unique way. Enjoy the rebirth of the forest, and when you get to see old growth, you can appreciate it more.

 

Sending good thoughts to the families and friends of the fallen firefighter heroes. Karma to deal with the arsonist.

[CoarsegoldKid]

We all feel sadness for the brave lives lost. We feel sadness for the landscape loss.

 

The arsonist should be burned at the stake in revenge for this crime.

 

But for those who have never ridden the Angeles Crest Highway and do not know the terrain keep in mind that it is a vast area, one mile high at the top overlooking millions of residents, and very very steep. When embers have gone cold and the rains come there is likely to be more lives lost.

 

I know how you feel Steve.

[Tool Man]

Sadly, I've been working this fire for 14 days as a reserve USFS Patrol Ranger and live part time in Wrightwood very near the east fire perimeter. I was called in and took vacation time at short notice. My job is to help assist perimeter breach control keeping the public out so the enourmous fire team effort can get their job done. My part pales in comparison to these guys putting everything they have into this. Family members, including my wife understand why we're not home, only hoping we do come home. Pictures being posted on websites by this sick arsonist paint a good impression but nothing like being there.

 

Fortumately, containment is in the 80% numbers but it's still hot up here and it isn't over until it's over. Only mother nature can spare what's to come and what's left of the ANF as we once new it.

 

The funeral was today and every one on the mountain wanted to go that's for sure but it isn't possible. A time of silence was the best we could do...not even radio traffic.

 

For those interested, Newcombs is stil in tact but don't look for the Crest to be open any time soon. Maybe by this time next year it will open as there is much damage to the heat melting the pavement and virtually no guardrails in place. Dozers keeping the road clear for equipment took it's tole on the hot pavement as well as other rigs getting stuck sinking into the ground.

 

Currently, the ANF is closed to any recreational activities even in the unburned areas and we're enforcing it actively with no tolerence level. The announcement was made public and our signs are 4'x8' in size and some folks don't understand and we are ticketing heavily, as is CHP the public coming up trying to go hiking or camping anyway. It's a complete closure and may stay that way through winter with only access to residents and Mtn. High ski resort.

 

I also want to mention, the Caltrans guys are the bomb and playing a big part in all of this mess. They have guys working around the clock keeping the roads open from all the falling debris in the road and already ripping out guard rails in readiness to install new. Tress are still falling as the ground gives way under them and thye keep cutting them up and hauling them out.

 

Truly a large scale mutual aid effort and am glad I can play even the small role that I do, to help so the real players can get in and do what they do so well.

[Tool Man]

I forgot to include in my post...kinda tired...that here is a link to the Wrightwood Forum were first hand maps and information is available by the forum admin. and his contacts with the USFS and what ever feed I can give him.

 

http://www.wrightwoodcalif.com/forum/index.php?topic=14371.0

[KMG_365]

Nice post, Mike and thanks for your good work up there. It's one of the tragedies of these events that many victims of these fire storms died trying in vain just to save "stuff".

 

But I understand where the rest of you are coming from as well. I might have a unique perspective on all this as I've been on Strike Teams fighting wildfires in the mountainous back country, I've seen the landscape of my beloved back yard riding country in San Diego County DRAMATICALLY changed by California's largest wildfires. The "artificial" heavily forested landscape is quickly returning to a more natural Coastal Sage Scrub habitat that will better withstand the regular periods of drought and wildfire that IS NORMAL for this region.

 

I've also just returned from the Funeral Services for Capt. Ted Hall and Firefighter Specialist Arnie Quinones. They drove off a 800 foot cliff blinded by smoke and flame. They sheltered the rest of their 50+ Fire Crew in a cement building, left their safety zone and took off in a utility vehicle to set backfires to save their Fire Camp and make an escape route for other fire crews that were also trapped and soon to be overrun by fire. Though they did not intend to die in the effort, they gave their lives to save about 70 others who all survived the burn over as a result of their actions. This risk is something all firefighters know they undertake when they raise their right hand and swear to protect and defend . . . but it makes it no less tragic. Ironically, I was wrenching at Steve's house when the Cedar Fire started in San Diego in 2003. While 14 other fires were also burning--some very near him in Glendora. The Cedar Fire was the largest single fire in California's history in which fifteen people died including one Firefighter.

 

This has been yet another long, hard weekend. I attended three September 11th memorial ceremonies and the next day a funeral for two of my brothers just two hours to the north. On that September 11th, eight years ago, 347 firefighters from the FDNY and another 68 First Responders (Paramedics, Private EMS, NYPD, and Port Authority officers) died in less than 90 minutes. It was the largest loss of life in the Fire Service in a single day ever--by factors of ten. Yet sadly, in the intervening eight years almost 700 more Professional Firefighters have died in the line of duty (and far more than that amongst the ranks of Volunteer Firefighters). These numbers are a reality of our job that we must come to grips with and yet CONTINUALLY try to reduce whenever and wherever we can.

 

It's hard to understand living in a fire-climax region. In fact, almost all of the people who DO live here don't understand it. It is meant to burn. It has burned regularly for millennia before the "white man" came and tried to put a stop to it. Here is some interesting ecology and background for those who are interested (and that would be no one in San Diego County, unfortunately )

 

We caused at least part of the problem by over-aggressive fire control/management for 40 years and by allowing the hundreds of thousands of "rugged individualists" to build willy-nilly in the back country and urban interface without regard to the inherent risk. And god forbid we should tell them how to build their houses to better survive fire--which we KNOW will come eventually. Nor should we require them to keep a defensible space around their homes so that we can keep them from being destroyed when the inevitable wildfire comes.

 

It's going to be another interesting fire season this year. Already the CA legislature has balked at a fee attached to homeowner insurance policies to pay for the firefighting effort ("Read my lips: no new taxes!"). And shortly after the outbreak of the Station Fire, the City of San Francisco Fire Department refused to send Mutual Aid rigs to help Los Angeles claiming they could not spare the resources that might be needed at home. The City of San Diego learned another similarly painful lesson in the 2007 wildfires as they sent almost all of their available engines to the east of the County and then watched helplessly as the community of Rancho Bernardo burned to the ground behind them. An Emergency Power Shut Off (EPSO) plan by our local utility company (SDG&E) to shut down power for up to 24 hours to the most vulnerable parts of the back country during the very hot and dry Santa Ana extreme wind events was overturned by the Public Utility Commission (PUC), even though they admitted that their equipment started three of the October of 2007 wildfires in which 14 people died. As a firefighter, it's hard to think of not getting behind a plan that will keep fires from starting, but then there is SO much other political baggage attached to this problem.

 

My sympathy for their plight begins to fluctuate with callous detachment as I witness their karmic comeuppance. The wages of ignorance is suffering and unfortunately we have a glut of both here.

[Tank]

Well said Jamie, thanks for your insight and the link...

I was born and grew up in Altadena Calif.. and what I remember vividly is sitting on the roof of the small home my Dad built in 1953 by hand(1750 sq ft.)watching the mountains burn every year, We came to exspect it. I can't start to imagine where people have built, built where nobody would have thought to build 55 years ago.

[Les is more]

Okay, so y'all are whinin' about riding & scenic areas lost. I can dig that, but......

 

Last I heard, this fire was considered arson. You guys are bitchin' & moanin' about scenery?!? Get serious!

 

Two firerfighters lost thier lives because of some asswipes, & you're complianing about the veiw from a hilltop.

 

One of my best friends makes his living struggling against this, & I find it offensive that anyone would take such a flippant approach to what's going on.

 

My heartfelt prayers go out every year for the firefighters in California that have to deal with this year after year.

 

 

Being married to one of those FFs, I certainly get the sacrifice and courage involved in their jobs. However, I also understand the sadness one can feel at watching such rampant destruction of other things we hold dear.

 

I find it particularly ungenerous to berate anyone for expressing their sorrow for a loss. Could anyone, especially considering the nature of the OP in this case, really think that he hadn't already considered the criminal act and the plight of the FFs trying to tame the beast?

 

[CoarsegoldKid]

I can't start to imagine where people have built, built where nobody would have thought to build 55 years ago.

 

Hey, Tank, I live in one of those places nobody would have thought to build 55 years ago. We must keep a 100 feet of defensible space around our homes. I never want to see a fire come anywhere near here though. And in more remote areas the homeowner must have a large tank of water with appropriate hook-up for the firefighting agency. So some areas of California are thinking and acting on how to prevent a fires spread as well as fighting them.

[KMG_365]

The problem is mostly one of education: if you CHOOSE to live in a fire-climax habitat, you need to be prepared to deal with the natural consequences of that choice. Here's some good info on dealing with the realities of living in a fire-climax habitat. For those of you who do live there, you should also download this file: http://www.burninstitute.org/pdfs/BI-Wildfire-Guide09.pdf and commit it's lessons to memory.

 

There are a few things that have changed recently with regard to how we deal with our "fire problem" as well as a few constants:

 

1) Agencies are getting more and more reluctant to participate in "Mutual Aid" agreements, i.e. send their resources out of their district to deal with someone else's problem.

 

2) If homeowners ignore an evacuation order, fire officials are going to be MUCH more reluctant to risk sending in rescue crews. If you're going to decide to "stay and defend", you'd better be damn sure you've got "defensible space" and the ability to go it alone for 72 hours or you're very likely to end up another grizzly statistic.

 

3) This problem is NOT going away. As more people move and build their homes in the interface zones and the climate continues to warm, the odds of another major fire storm gets better. There were many thousands of acres that burned in 2007 that had ALSO just burned in 2003. Just because your area may have burned fairly recently, doesn't mean you're safe for another 30-40 years.