tcausey Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 When the bike is in or out of gear and the clutch is "in" or disengaged . . . what is still "spinning" (input shafts/discs). Forgive me for such an elementary question and feel free to send me to "Read the manual" somewhere if that's appropriate. thank you. Link to comment
OoPEZoO Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 If the bike is sitting still and the clutch is pulled in, then the only thing spinning should be the flywheel, which is bolted to the rear of the crank shaft. If you are going down the road and pull the clutch in, everything is still spinning. BUT the crankshaft/flywheel will be spinning at a different speed than the clutch, input shaft, driveshaft, and final drive. When you release the clutch lever it all goes back to spinning at the same speed (this is in simple terms and ignoring the gearing changes inside the transmission and final drive) Link to comment
OoPEZoO Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Here is a pretty good look at what is happening The teeth around the outside are the flywheel. The disk in the middle is clutch disk. The shaft you see coming towards the camera is my old transmission input shaft. Anytime you pull in the clutch, everything from the clutch disk to the rear wheel is separated from the crankshaft/flywheel. That make sense? Link to comment
tcausey Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 Thanks. This is perfect Keith. It's what I needed. I'm still trying to sort out my knocking noise and wanted to make sure I'm not crazy (for that reason). I only happens when the clutch is disengaged (in or out of gear doesn't matter and rolling or not doesn't matter). I can almost feel it as much as hear it. I removed the starter and inspected as best I good and clutch spline play looks fine. based on what's moving, it seems it's either got to be between the clutch disc and flywheel or it's the cylinder slave because it ONLY happens when the clutch is pulled in. Link to comment
OoPEZoO Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 What model bike are we talking about? Link to comment
tcausey Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 2002 R1150RT (24k miles) Link to comment
pmfranke Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 dont mean to high jack this but a quick interjection question ...Is it possible for the diaphram clutch spring to spin as you take off from a standing start,making a slipping scraping kind of noise ? thanks for those fantastic pictures.I soon wil be replacing the clutch plate.now i can see what im up against. Thanks Peter. Link to comment
OoPEZoO Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 dont mean to high jack this but a quick interjection question ...Is it possible for the diaphram clutch spring to spin as you take off from a standing start,making a slipping scraping kind of noise ? thanks for those fantastic pictures.I soon wil be replacing the clutch plate.now i can see what im up against. Thanks Peter. I suppose anything is possible, but that spring plate has some pretty good tension on it once its in there. During reassembly you are suppossed to put a dab of Moly grease in the center of the spring plate so the clutch rod doesn't get hung up. Its certainly possiblr that it is dry or you have a touch of corrosion in there and it is causing the clutch rod to hang up and/or spin. If it helps, here is the link to my transmission rebuild/clutch replacement LINK Link to comment
Ken H. Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I'm still trying to sort out my knocking noise and wanted to make sure I'm not crazy (for that reason). I only happens when the clutch is disengaged (in or out of gear doesn't matter and rolling or not doesn't matter). I can almost feel it as much as hear it. I removed the starter and inspected as best I good and clutch spline play looks fine. based on what's moving, it seems it's either got to be between the clutch disc and flywheel or it's the cylinder slave because it ONLY happens when the clutch is pulled in. If it is gear dog knocking in the tranny, it’s really rather normal. Even though nothing rear of the clutch disk is spinning at that point, general engine vibration can be enough for the dogs to knock into each other. Link to comment
tcausey Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 Would the gear dogs knock ONLY when the clutch is disengaged? This is what's confusing me. There are certainly "normal" ticks and knocks like the valves when it gets above 6 bars or so, but this feels as if a bearing is shot or something rotating is hitting something else. I'm pretty close to "riding it until something breaks", but at times I can be a bit obsessive. I'm sure I'm in good company. Link to comment
NonComp Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Pmfranke, does your noise from a standing start happen every time, or only the first time and occasionally after that? It took me 2 years to figure out that the noise I heard was actually the ABS system arming itself after it finished the wheel sensor self-test as the bike gets under way, following an engine startup, and occasionally after that. Link to comment
Ken H. Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Would the gear dogs knock ONLY when the clutch is disengaged? Yes. With the clutch lever let out the input shaft is spinning preventing the knock. With it held they are free to move around on the shaft. BMW tried to correct the problem on some versions of the tranny with wavy washers inserted on the shaft, but that made other issues, not the least of which was the washers splitting into pieces on occasion. If the sound you are hearing is indeed what we think it is, better earplugs is the best fix! Oh, and "obsessive" is pretty much this board's middle name. Link to comment
pmfranke Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 sorry again for the hi jack. Thanks Keith for the great link (just what I needed)! Glen T thanks for that diagnostic. I think that sound you describe is most likely it.just seemed to be the clutch as i take off,since it (the clutch) is slipping really badly now.You guys ROCK. THANKS again.Peter Link to comment
OoPEZoO Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 sorry again for the hi jack. Thanks Keith for the great link (just what I needed)! Glen T thanks for that diagnostic. I think that sound you describe is most likely it.just seemed to be the clutch as i take off,since it (the clutch) is slipping really badly now.You guys ROCK. THANKS again.Peter Its all good. If you get in elbow deep and have any questions, feel free to shoot me a PM. Link to comment
BABABeemer Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 My R1150 RTP makes the same knocking noise when I pull in the clutch and after looking over another transmission, I think it is the clutch release rod that goes down the center of the transmission input shaft. It has a piece of felt around it to prevent knocking against the input shaft and if that felt falls out then it could start making noise. I decided to not worry about mine. Link to comment
NonComp Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 Mine doesn't have the felt, and I didn't bother to replace it when I did the clutch. I think the felt is there to prevent oil from backing up the input shaft and ruining the clutch plates in the event of a rear seal failure?? Link to comment
Ken H. Posted September 5, 2009 Share Posted September 5, 2009 I think the felt is there to prevent oil from backing up the input shaft and ruining the clutch plates in the event of a rear seal failure?? Well if that’s the case, I can confirm that it doesn’t work! I’ve also speculated that the felt is to keep the rod centered during installation of the slave cylinder on the back. Link to comment
another David Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Similar situation... I have an '04 R1150RS with 43k miles. When warm, there's a light knock at idle that goes away when I pull in the clutch. Any thoughts on what this might mean? Thanks! David Link to comment
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