jblaze5779 Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 So I go out to the garage this morning to start my bike and head to work. I turn the ignition to the on position and nothing happens... I cycled the key trough all positions several times and I couldn't get ANY signs of life out of the bike. I was running late so I had to leave it and jumped in my jeep and drove to work. Just yesterday I rode the bike too and from work with no problems at all (about 60mi round trip). When I got home I turned off the bike and left it in the garage like always. I'm sure the ignition was not on since my wife was out working on Halloween decorations all night and I think she would have noticed if the headlight was on. I'm not sure it could be a dead battery because I would think there would be at least some signs of life coming from the bike.... maybe a wire or something came loose. I just have no idea what electrical gremlins are in the bike now. Anyone know where I should even begin to look for problems? Link to comment
T__ Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 jblaze5779, start with the kill switch as that can make it seem like a dead battery.. Then check the battery power (maybe the key was left in a position to not leave the lights on but still powered some accessories).. Otherwise if battery OK the look for broken wire to ign switch along the steering head area (near the harness cable tie).. Also check for loose or corroded battery cables at the battery.. Twisty Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 thanks man, sounds like a good night of troubleshooting ahead. Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 On another note, I do recall smelling what could have been a feint burning plastic smell as I parked the bike in the garage last night. I'm getting no lights, sounds, nothing when I turn the key in the on position. Link to comment
Boffin Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 An easy mistake to make on these bikes is to turn the key past the 'off' position to the 'p' position - this is the parking position which locks the steering but puts on the parking lights - tail-light plus small pilot light in the headlamp. Easily missed, this can drain the battery overnight. One common probalem to include in your trouble-shooting is the harness from the ignition switch. the zip-ties from the factory tend to be over-tight and too close to the headstock. Over time the constant bending of the wires will often break one of the leads from the ignition switch (green seems to be favourite on the bikes I have seen) leading to the symptoms you see. The easy (if far from perfect) way to check this is to cut the ties and wiggle the loom to see if power is restored even briefly. The better way is to cut off the outer insulation and gently stretch the wires under that first tie - any damages wires will be obvious. Andy Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 I'm certain the bike wasn't in the park position. I went out to run last night and I use the garage remote attached to my motorcycle key. I always just pull it out of the bike at the first position after the on position. I'm banking on some sort of wire damage since I can't get any signs out of the bike. Time to bust out the multimeter when I get home? Link to comment
Jerry Duke Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 Check the side stand switch too. Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 Ok the thing with with both the kill switch and sidestand switches going bad would be that I should at least get the dash lights and the headlight to come on, right? This leads me to believe that this is something wrong before the power even gets to the dash lights or the switches. I mean I'm on the right right track right? Since absolutely nothing is working I'm thinking it's something to do with the battery, main battery cable or the ignition module itself.. Link to comment
Boffin Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 That ignition switch loom looks likely Andy Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 Well suck can't wait to dive into this one after work. Link to comment
Unhofliche_Gesundheit Posted September 3, 2009 Share Posted September 3, 2009 uhmmm before you slash into the wiring loom - check that the battery is not dead - they can die suddenly and completely ... Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 3, 2009 Author Share Posted September 3, 2009 yeah man that's certainly first on the list. I hope I lift the seat to find that somehow one of the leads has come loose. Link to comment
Hermes Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I don't know if you have really established yet wether or not the battery is dead. That would be my first test (other then the kill switch). I am not sure if you can manage to get the multimeters prongs on to the battery posts, but I have done it once by removing the seat and squeezing in there (without taking off any plastic. Sometimes a cell in the battery goes bad due to vibration and will be inoperable. and you won't notice it until you shut the bike off and then try to restart, because you were getting all your power from the alternator while riding. Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 I started by checking the battery, it came it right over 12V so that was good. I then put the bike up on the center stand and twisted the handle bars back and forth. BLAMMMMO the bike came right back on. I guess I have a short somewhere in the wiring leading up to the handle bars. I'll need to trouble shoot that sometime soon... Link to comment
Boffin Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 I started by checking the battery, it came it right over 12V so that was good. I then put the bike up on the center stand and twisted the handle bars back and forth. BLAMMMMO the bike came right back on. I guess I have a short somewhere in the wiring leading up to the handle bars. I'll need to trouble shoot that sometime soon... Not a short, an open... Follow the wires down from under the ignition switch until you reach the first zip-tie. Cut that off and open up the loom at that point. Here you will find a broken wire. I believe that this is available as a short loom that pugs in, but I have just made crimp repairs myself - usually splicing in a short length of wire for ease of working. Once done, I wrap everything in looming tape. Andy Link to comment
Fugu Posted September 4, 2009 Share Posted September 4, 2009 What Andy said. Last one I fixed I took a butt style crimp connector, and slit the plastic with a knife. Slid on some shrink tube, Crimped that metal core of the crimp connect on the broken wire, and then soldered it, shrink tubed it, and wrapped it in loom tape (that fabric anti-chafe tape stuff). Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 4, 2009 Author Share Posted September 4, 2009 Right on guys, I did notice that the plastic looming was torn at the first zip-tie and I suspected that the problem was in the there somewhere. I'm going after it sometime tomorrow. Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 OK so this morning I go out and the same thing happens. I rotate the handlebars back and forth and nothing happens. So I decide to do a test... I put the key in the run position and turn on the red switch on the handlebars. At this point there are no lights on the dash and no buzzers going. The bike is completely dead. So for the second part of the test I begin to pick the bike up to center it as if I'm going to raise it onto the centerstand. Right as I begin to press down the centerstand with my foot the bike comes to life. I release the centerstand and put down the sidestand and place it back (the buzzers and lights are still going). I turn off the key, then I turn it back on. I attempt to start the bike in neutral on the sidestand... no dice (no lights or buzzers). I do the same procedure listed above, as soon as the centerstand comes down about a couple inches the bike comes to life. I now place the bike on the centerstand, turn off the key, put the bike in nuetral, turn the key back on and the bike comes on and starts completely normally. I'm guessing the centerstand switch is the issue here? Also, note that the clock on the display had been reset. So I am experiencing complete loss of power within the bike. The bike had been sitting for about a week. A couple weeks ago when I had this issue I have not been having any problems since. It would start just fine. It seems as though leaving it sitting for a period of time without a ride in between is effecting it. Link to comment
AndyS Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I'm guessing the centerstand switch is the issue here?. Sorry, can't be that. These bikes don't have a centrestand switch. Andy Link to comment
NumbHands Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Did you move (raise or lower) the sidestand before activating the centerstand? Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 Did you move (raise or lower) the sidestand before activating the centerstand? I don't think so, as a matter of fact I don't the sidestand even moved during the whole process... it was always down. No centerstand switch makes sense, I don't know anyone that would attempt to drive off while sitting on the CS...*envisions someone wondering why the bike won't start* Link to comment
ESokoloff Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Sounds like a wire going bad in the ignition switch. On my 03 RT a while back the big red wire in the ignition switch suddenly developed an open. It happened after parking using the side-stand at an angle that extended the forks & cocked the front wheel fully to the right (if memory serves me well). Several hours later when I went to leave the bike died when I cocked the handlebars slightly to the left. I managed to nurse it home knowing that if I turned the bars to the left a few degrees I would kill the bike. Needless to say it was an interesting 12 mile ride that (very dark) night The fix was to dissect the ignition switch & replace the first few inches of that red wire by unsoldering the old & soldering in the new section (on both ends). Search for how to dissect the switch as it's tricky & helpful to have instructions. Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 21, 2009 Author Share Posted September 21, 2009 Sounds like an awesome fun time... Link to comment
ESokoloff Posted September 22, 2009 Share Posted September 22, 2009 Sounds like an awesome fun time... The fix or the ride home???? Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 22, 2009 Author Share Posted September 22, 2009 Well so it has finally gotten to the point where I can't get it started. Even after putting on the centerstand, which for some reason used to allow me to start the bike. The bike is just dead... dead. Trouble shooting starts tonight Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 Put bike on centersand, give it a turn and everything starts like normal. After two days of not starting.... the problem is so intermittent that I can't really even track it down. I let it sit with the ignition on and jiggled every wire I could give to see if I could get it to cut off with no luck. Link to comment
Boffin Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 Have you physically checked the loom at the first zip-tie? From your posts that is not clear. You need to cut open the outer sheath then PULL each wire individually as the tendency is for the copper to crack under the insulation, attempting to stretch the wire will show any hidden breaks - wiggling is not enough. Andy Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 OK I'll try the pulling each individual wire tonight or tomorrow. To be clear you mean the ignition switch like where the key is inserted right? Not the on/off run switch on the handlebars...? Link to comment
Boffin Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 The loom that breaks is from the key-switch and the break occurs at the first cable-tie - on the LH side of the tubular frame holding the nose-fairing. Unfortunately, it is necessary to open the outer sheath at this point to get at the individual conductors. Andy Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 23, 2009 Author Share Posted September 23, 2009 Do recall the color of the wire that broke on your bike? Was it red like in the other similar response posted? Link to comment
Boffin Posted September 23, 2009 Share Posted September 23, 2009 As yet mine has not broken - I removed the cable tie early on in its life. I have fixed three other bikes though, one red, two green... Andy Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 24, 2009 Author Share Posted September 24, 2009 OK I haven't had a chance to check out the ignition wires yet but I figured I'd add a few more details to my problem. Whenever the problem arises, it's usually after the bike sits for a couple days. I put the key in (the lights and buzzers come on), I press the start button, I hear for a split second the starter start and the engine crank... then everything dies. The sound is very brief. After this point I get no lights or buzzers like the bike is dead... if I wait a while or place the bike on the centerstand it will (usually) start. I'm wondering if it could be a bad battery, this might also explain the clock resetting.The battery shows 12v while on the bike. Maybe it doesn't have enough amps to turn the engine and experiences complete discharge. What I don't get is how it'll start and act fine for days before the problem comes up again. This leads me to believe the ignition wires are messed. Then again, how can the ignition wires turn off all the bike electrics and reset the clock..? Going to check the ignition wires tonight Link to comment
T__ Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 jblaze5779, as a rule that doesn’t point to a battery problem.. BUT!, I once worked on a vehicle that had a battery that acted just like yours is.. I never tore the battery apart but I presume it had an intermittent open in an inside tie bar or some sort of internal disconnect under a certain system loading.. If I were a betting person I would bet that your problem is more down the line of a bad battery cable connection (probably ground to chassis) as the center stand effects the connection.. Check ALL battery cable grounds not only for being tight but also for corrosion at the connections.. If you want to check the battery cables & their connections just run a test light (or head light,, or tail light bulb,, or anything 12 volts lights wise) first between the battery (+) post & the starter large cable stud.. Then do the same between the battery (-) post & a CLEAN spot on the engine or trans.. If the light lights brightly when you try to start the bike you have issues in that cable or cable connection.. Twisty Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 24, 2009 Author Share Posted September 24, 2009 Why didn't I think of that... check the starter cables...der.... that'll be the first check tonight. Link to comment
David R Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 No doubt you have a poor connection. It sounds like its pretty close to the battery. I would start there and check each connection as they get smaller. Last time I had the sides off my bike, I took the + battery cable off the starter and cleaned it with a wire brush and sandpaper. I cleaned the nut too. Then coated all of it with silicon grease. I made sure the battery terminals were clean and tight. Its not easy to get at, so I am hoping to avoid a problem. You could put a volt meter on the battery and hit the starter. See what the voltage does when it stops cranking. If it doesn't drop, then the battery is fine. Then you could hook it to the starter + stud and batt-. Then the starter and ground. Next I would back probe the ignition switch power wire. Its good that you can duplicate the problem. I would be fixing it now instead of in some parking lot when it totally takes a crap. It may be worth looking in the fuse box where the main wires connect. Look for corrosion and discolored connections. Either black (heat) or green (corrosion). Your clock is resetting because its losing voltage. This is a non switched item, This shows it should be in the beginning of the battery and power circuit. Could be + or - poor connection. I am not a BMW mechanic, bit am a car and truck mechanic....for 30 years. David Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share Posted September 25, 2009 I'm out in the garage trouble shooting now. all primary connections (batt, starter look solid). I took the battery to the auto part store and had it charged. I can't really duplicate the problem... right now the bike is running fine so it's hard to trace this thing down. It seems to happen whenever it's actually doing the problem I'm in no position to work on it. I'm probing like crazy out in the garage! Link to comment
dls Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Check the ground wire from the battery to the frame. Mine was loose from I believe the factory. It is very hard to find and harder to get to but it is under the ABS brake module. Shine a light under there and check. I had strange intermittent starting problems, clock going out, lights doing weird things. Next time it seems like the battery is dead jump it by just hooking a wire from the battery ground to the bolt on the rear shock and see what happens. Good luck. Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share Posted September 25, 2009 Thanks for all the input guys. Since the bike isn't currently having the issue it was difficult to find anything wrong with it tonight. I checked everything listed here and I didn't see anything out of the ordinary. I did see the ground mention in the post above and you're right, it does look difficult to get to. I poked it with a screw driver a couple times and it seemed tight. I'm going to try grounding the battery to frame manually next time I have the issue to see if that's what's wrong. Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 25, 2009 Author Share Posted September 25, 2009 On my way out to work this morning I decided to crank the bike as I walked by. It was cranking as if it had a super low battery. This is the first time that it has done this. I am really starting to suspect a malfunctioning battery as being the culprit. This would explain the complete loss of power throughout the bike while all ground and cable appear good. They tested the battery for charge last night but never cycled the battery to see if it could take a load. Link to comment
David R Posted September 25, 2009 Share Posted September 25, 2009 Put a volt meter on it and crank the engine. It should not drop below 9.6 volts. David Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 26, 2009 Author Share Posted September 26, 2009 Well I took the seat off and connected a ground wire to the frame like the post above stated. It still wouldn't start. Hooked up the jeep to it and it cranked right up so I suppose it's a dead battery. I took it off and trucked the battery up the local chopper shop and had them put it on a trickle charger for me. The battery came in at 31% charged after having been charged to 85% the night before. The shop highly endorses big boar batteries... anyone ever heard of these? They had one with 380cca's. It was a tiny bit shorter but met all the other specs. All the other batteries I could find apart from going to the dealer were not sealed batteries. Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted September 26, 2009 Author Share Posted September 26, 2009 I picked the battery up this morning at 100% charge. I put it back on the bike and it cranked right back up. The battery never went below 9.69v while cranking the bike. I'm going to button everything back up and see if the problem persists. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.