Ride Like A Pro Video - Question

[JohnnyJ]

According to the video, accelerating the engine and applying the rear brake will help the MC stay upright at slow speeds. They were all riding big V-twins; Does this theory apply to the BMW boxer twin? Also, they were encouraging you to ride slow and make sharp turns to learn where maximum lean angle is. Again, with the BMW's sporting geometry, will I be able to learn maximum lean angle at slow speeds.

 

 

Thanks in advance!

JohnnyJ

[upflying]

90% of initial motor officer training is low speed, full steering lock turns through tight cone patterns.

The only way though them is precise hand, eye, clutch throttle coordination involving the use of the gray area of the clutch and careful throttle control, usually at RPM's just above idle. At no time are the patterns ridden with the clutch fully engaged. Secret to successful pattern work is keeping the head and eyes up, using the distant horizon as a reference point for you sense of balance. You watch cone spacing only with your peripheral vision. "Look down, go down", was the instructor bark. Dragging the rear brake as a crutch to keep the bike balanced and coordinated was not taught by CHP instructors except when doing cone patterns on inclined surfaces.

Since I am old fart now, I do drag the rear brake to help balance the bike while doing low speed turns.

As a side note, I have heard the Yamaha FJ1300 Automtic is impossible to ride through low speed cone patterns. Loss of precise clutch control is the reason.

[VinnyR11]

Why does dragging the rear brake help balance the bike?

 

I can see it helping to keep the engine in a better torque range, but most articles and posts say it helps balance. I never felt it helped me that much, but anyone know the physics/reasons behind it?

[Rotor]

Slight pressure on the rear brake helps control your speed. A little more pressure will help stand the bike upright. It's a technique that works with all bikes (can't advise about automatic transmissions as I personally haven't tried one). It works better with some than others depending on the bikes geometry.

[Quinn]

Possibly dragging the rear brake allows for more precise control of speed than the throttle. Also allows the engine to be in a slightly higher and therefore smoother range while still letting the rear wheel push. Chopping the throttle while leaned over at low speeds feels like using the front brake--a sure fall down for me. Dragging the rear brake works for me even with the linked brakes; it may be psycosomatic (sp). Putting your foot down and trying to pivot on it sure doesn't work--DAMHIK.

 

 

[upflying]

Without dragging the rear brake, speed through the patterns is controlled only with the throttle and clutch. A bit too much speed and you don't clean the pattern. Dragging the rear brake helps control the speed.

"Speed" means around 5-7 mph.

[motorman587]

The way I teach new motor officer on RTPs is "never" slip the clutch on a dry clutch. You will wear out dry clutch quickly. We had a one of our motor officer in Feb. who was taught to slip a clutch, burnt out a RTP clutch in two days at a rodeo.

 

The technique is to get your speed up, slow with rear brake, pull in the clutch, as you make the turn and start you lean you slow ease the clutch out. Not all the way, but enough to ease the motor through the turn.

 

The RTPs can idle through exerices, but it is easy if you a little clutch control. At no time should you use the brake and clutch at the same time. The clutch is either disengaged or the brakes off.

 

Can you max lean at slow speed. I say no. You can try, but you are going to slow. What helps people is also to counter balance the motorcycle. You shift your body to one side as the motorcycle leans.

[JohnnyJ]

The video was presented as if everybody was riding large v-twin cruisers with very little ground clearance. Issues for those riding other types of MC's should have been addressed.

 

How do you know if your MC has a dry clutch? Purposely slipping any clutch for long periods of time just seems wrong.

 

Thanks for the replies!

JohnnyJ

[upflying]

Almost all motorcycles have wet clutches, BMW is the major exception.

Wet clutches (meaning in an oil bath) such as those in a Harley Davidson and "V-Twin cruisers", withstand a lot of slipping abuse without complaint.

Agree with John, dry clutch slipping should be avoided while doing cone patterns. A lot has to do with first gear ratios too. My '98 RT-P is geared to high to idle through a cone pattern with the clutch fully engaged.

[motorman587]

Same here, all I know is the BMW is dry, Honda and Harley's are wet. I think Duc. are dry too. Not sure on that one.

[JayW]

The way I teach new motor officer on RTPs is "never" slip the clutch on a dry clutch. You will wear out dry clutch quickly...

 

Hmmm...this is the very way I have been practicing the slow speed maneuvers I learned at the MSF and ERC courses. It seems to me that if you aren't using much (or any) throttle, then wear on the clutch would be minimal. I never notice that burnt clutch smell and mine still seems fine after 55K miles. Granted, I only practice these drills a few times a year, so maybe my technique just hasn't caught up with me yet. I am certainly no expert, so I'll have to rethink this one.

 

Jay

[motorman587]

Slipping the clutch is not all bad. It is when you use the rear brake to control your speed, puts on alot abuse on the clutch. How do you slip the clutch and use only a little or no throttle??

 

 

[JayW]

How do you slip the clutch and use only a little or no throttle??

 

Slipping the clutch allows me to keep some power going to the rear wheel to push the bike around a tight low speed turn, but not too fast, as might be the case if the clutch were fully engaged. Sometimes I add a tiny bit of throttle to keep the bike from stalling. Maybe I don't understand your question?

 

Jay

[motorman587]

How do you slip the clutch and use only a little or no throttle??

 

Slipping the clutch allows me to keep some power going to the rear wheel to push the bike around a tight low speed turn, but not too fast, as might be the case if the clutch were fully engaged. Sometimes I add a tiny bit of throttle to keep the bike from stalling. Maybe I don't understand your question?

 

Jay

 

I got it.

[Joel]

Also, they were encouraging you to ride slow and make sharp turns to learn where maximum lean angle is. Again, with the BMW's sporting geometry, will I be able to learn maximum lean angle at slow speeds.

 

I've got the DVD and I think it is useful, to a point.

 

Dragging the rear brake definitely helps with some of those drills, as can slipping the clutch. All things in moderation.

 

You might not get to the max lean, but if you really work at it you can get close enough. I've scraped a peg and a boot more often in practice sessions working on tight turning than I have on the open road. Granted, that's on a GS, but that's not really the point.

[Wooster]

I've got the DVD and I think it is useful, to a point.

 

My older brother (who recently bought a 1200 cc sportster custom) and I watched the DVD and I secretly didn't think much of it. Granted, I can't do those tight weaves yet I question their relevance to riding. Sure, we all do U-turns and need to do so on narrow country roads; however, I'm much more concerned (and value) the speed issues of riding. Privately, I think of the DVD as "Parade Like a Pro".

 

Wooster, not disrespecting the skill of slow speed manouvers, just doubting their application at 75 mph

[FLrider]

At no time should you use the brake and clutch at the same time. The clutch is either disengaged or the brakes off.

 

 

Huh?

 

If the clutch is dis engaged, the clutch lever is "out", there is power to the rear wheel and you would use the brake/throttle to control speed. Got it.

 

If the clutch is engaged, the clutch lever is "in" there is no power to the rear wheel and you control speed how?

 

Can't wait to try that one

 

 

[Jeepster]

At no time should you use the brake and clutch at the same time. The clutch is either disengaged or the brakes off.

 

 

Huh?

 

If the clutch is dis engaged, the clutch lever is "out", there is power to the rear wheel and you would use the brake/throttle to control speed. Got it.

 

If the clutch is engaged, the clutch lever is "in" there is no power to the rear wheel and you control speed how?

 

Can't wait to try that one

Actually FLrider with the clutch lever out the flywheel, friction disk and pressure plate are all together or engaged.

With the clutch lever pulled in they are separated or DISengaged. Which makes motorman's statement very valid.

[upflying]

I've got the DVD and I think it is useful, to a point.

 

My older brother (who recently bought a 1200 cc sportster custom) and I watched the DVD and I secretly didn't think much of it. Granted, I can't do those tight weaves yet I question their relevance to riding. Sure, we all do U-turns and need to do so on narrow country roads; however, I'm much more concerned (and value) the speed issues of riding. Privately, I think of the DVD as "Parade Like a Pro".

 

Wooster, not disrespecting the skill of slow speed manouvers, just doubting their application at 75 mph

 

All motor officer training begins an starts with low speed cone patterns. This is where the recruits that have it and don't have it are weeded out. The "Right Stuff" is another way to put it. Once you pass one week of low speed grunt work, you get to ride at 75 mph..something most people do with ease.

[motorman587]

I am a firm believe if you can master riding at low speed, you will/can become a better rider at higher speeds.

 

Low speed builds confidence for higher speed incidents. And what I mean there is to think clearly under stress when, things do not go your way, ie too fast in a corner, somebody pulls out in front or any other hazard that may come your way.

[Eric S]

I just did the BRC and I knew that practicing those maneuvers on the tiny Honda 125 was going to be cake compared to the R1100RT. I'd rather slip the clutch than fall over at this point in my skill. I do know on the R1100 I have to counterbalance waaay over on the opposite side.

[oodude]

Full steering lock turn? Really??

 

 

[oodude]

The way I teach new motor officer on RTPs is "never" slip the clutch on a dry clutch. You will wear out dry clutch quickly. We had a one of our motor officer in Feb. who was taught to slip a clutch, burnt out a RTP clutch in two days at a rodeo.

 

Oh man, I wish you would have said that in the video :-(

 

[oodude]

 

Okay, so if I wanted to practice the 360 turn while looking at a person in the middle of my circle exercise, I would slow down with rear brake, pull clutch in, start turn easing clutch all the way out, and just use throttle and rear brake as I circle?

 

 

The way I teach new motor officer on RTPs is "never" slip the clutch on a dry clutch. You will wear out dry clutch quickly. We had a one of our motor officer in Feb. who was taught to slip a clutch, burnt out a RTP clutch in two days at a rodeo.

 

The technique is to get your speed up, slow with rear brake, pull in the clutch, as you make the turn and start you lean you slow ease the clutch out. Not all the way, but enough to ease the motor through the turn.

 

The RTPs can idle through exerices, but it is easy if you a little clutch control. At no time should you use the brake and clutch at the same time. The clutch is either disengaged or the brakes off.

 

Can you max lean at slow speed. I say no. You can try, but you are going to slow. What helps people is also to counter balance the motorcycle. You shift your body to one side as the motorcycle leans.

[upflying]

Do figure 8's in an empty parking lot to warm up.

Once you have built up your confidence, make a u-turn within the lines of a parking space.

Don't look at an object close to you during the maneuver. Look far off in the distance, pick something on the horizon to look at and focus on that object while turning. Swing your head back around as far as it will go before you make the u-turn. If you look down while turning, you go down.

[motorman587]

The way I teach new motor officer on RTPs is "never" slip the clutch on a dry clutch. You will wear out dry clutch quickly. We had a one of our motor officer in Feb. who was taught to slip a clutch, burnt out a RTP clutch in two days at a rodeo.

 

Oh man, I wish you would have said that in the video :-(

 

Not my video..........

[motorman587]

Okay, so if I wanted to practice the 360 turn while looking at a person in the middle of my circle exercise, I would slow down with rear brake, pull clutch in, start turn easing clutch all the way out, and just use throttle and rear brake as I circle?

 

Yes, use the rear brake to slow, also depends on the speed you are attempting the 360 turn.

 

Slowly pull in the clutch. The more you pull in, the less power you will have to the rear wheel, so you will lose power quickly.

 

Yes, as you start the turn and you feel the lean, or when you feel like you have to put a foot down, ease the cltuch out.

 

Brake if are going to fast and throttle if you are using too much rear brake.

[motorman587]

Another way to do a circle is have the clutch all the way out. Look over your shoulder, and turn the handle bars. An RT will idle through a handle bar lock turn. You can use the rear brake slightly to slow. Just remember too much brake could cause the motor to stall. I can use this method, but I like the other where you use the clutch. Most new motor like just to idle through and then learn the clutch, thottle, and rear brake method.

[idpadan]

Okay, so if I wanted to practice the 360 turn while looking at a person in the middle of my circle exercise, I would slow down with rear brake, pull clutch in, start turn easing clutch all the way out, and just use throttle and rear brake as I circle?

 

Yes, use the rear brake to slow, also depends on the speed you are attempting the 360 turn.

 

Slowly pull in the clutch. The more you pull in, the less power you will have to the rear wheel, so you will lose power quickly.

 

Yes, as you start the turn and you feel the lean, or when you feel like you have to put a foot down, ease the cltuch out.

 

Brake if are going to fast and throttle if you are using too much rear brake.

 

Ok - I've been told to never "slip the clutch" on my R1150RT but guess I never understood what slipping the clutch means. The above description sounds like what I thought slipping the clutch was. Someone help me understand what slipping the clutch is and how not to do it. Thanks.

[motorman587]

Slipping the clutch, also known as the gray area, is when the RPMs are up and the cltuch is not all the way out, or not all the way in. Slipping. Like you would with a car on a hill. Add some rear brake, and you are working the clutch over time. Not good on a dry cltuch.

[motorman587]

Slipping the clutch on the RT can be done and you do it when you start off, just in small amount. If you need to slip the clutch, do not add the rear brake to slow. This is all done when doing slow tight turns.

[idpadan]

Thanks for the reply. So, slow speed parking lot practice where I use the clutch to control speed is ok as long as I keep the RPM's down and don't ride the rear brake a lot?

[motorman587]

Yes, a little slip here or there is fine, just when you add the rear brake, adds more friction. When we get ready for a police motorcycle rodeo, it is very important to what we call a breeze out. A breeze out is riding the bike around with out using the brakes or cltuch. You are cooling the engine and cltuch. At the academy we use the 2 mile track. At rodeo's we use a city block etc............

 

Another thing I like to do is burp the throttle as I easy in and out the clutch for speed control. Also remember to use the clutch from the, what we call, the top side. Top side is when the clutch is all the way out (engaged) and you squeeze in towards (disengage). That is the top side.

[idpadan]

Thanks again for the information - appreciate your help.