New SPOT Messenger

[smiller]

 

Just fyi, a next generation SPOT unit should be available around the end of September. Until that time you can pick up one of the original units at most retailers for $99.95.

 

 

[RodB]

I've sorta looked at these a while back. I'm interested mainly for my winter pastime - snowmobiling.

I don't know if these units have been discussed here in the past but I'm wondering how well these units perform.

[tlc]

My wife hikes in the Smokey Mts., and there is no cell phone coverage. She has carried a SPOT for about six months, and I can follow her in the mountains. If she needs help, the SPOT has a "911" button to push.

[jjg3]

A coworker and I each carried a SPOT on a trip last year VA-AK-VA. I had tracking, he didn't, we both had the optional insurance. Not a PLB but for the price and coverage you get I think it's well worth it. You can customize the check-in and non-emergency help messages so between the 2 of us we had essentially 4 customizable messages that we could send out on their Geos satellite link even when there was no cel coverage. Samples of SPOT saves. I've since given mine to my daughter when she went off to college in the middle of no-where, TX (Texas Tech). If you're interested, there are routinely sales on these units, the last ending early this month was a full rebate with the only cost being the service.

[RodB]

Yeah, I saw and ignored that rebate earlier this summer, my concern being satellite reception in dense forest (where we do most of our snowmobiling).

Well, the new version claims improved reception amongst other improvements, so I suppose I'll wait for awhile and see if another sale comes up.

[der Wanderer]

So, I have seen this a couple months ago and decided against both the original unit and the (very disappointing) new unit.

 

I had the opportunity to communicate with the Spot people and told them:

 

Love the concept, won’t buy yet. Why?

- Throw away batteries. Not environment or cost conscious. I would use mostly on my motorcycle, need a device with external (12V preferred) power inlet, plus rechargeable batteries.

- One use device? Seems to me this is a fully functional GPS inside, but it's not giving the user any benefit for it. No position, no bearing, no speed. Ok, they may not want to carry maps, I can see that even though I’d like for them to do it. But nothing, not even coordinates???

 

Seems to me the best play would be to offer an option for Spot service on third party GPS. Space, money, power, etc are at a premium on a bike. Put it in the Zumo and that is a big winner.

 

 

[SageRider]

I've sorta looked at these a while back. I'm interested mainly for my winter pastime - snowmobiling.

I don't know if these units have been discussed here in the past but I'm wondering how well these units perform.

My unit performs very well, with the caveat that when the batteries begin to weaken, but before a low battery alarm is indicated, the tracker will not always get through when in tracking mode.

That said, however, the device performed flawlessly on my cross country unrally trip tracking 8K miles over 3 weeks on the same set of 2 batteries.

[jjg3]

Seems to me the best play would be to offer an option for Spot service on third party GPS.

 

Interesting idea. Even though I've purchased one (and will get another), I think they'd really boost their market if they could make the transmitter small enough so that such a unit would not be much larger than currently available GPSs (and not hugely expensive). You wonder why Garmin hasn't bought into this (or why it's taking so long if they are) since they're putting everything else in a GPS.

[smiller]

Seems to me the best play would be to offer an option for Spot service on third party GPS.

Great play, but no so easy to execute. A subscription-based plan is a very different business model for most GPS manufacturers so how would revenue be shared? One-time fee? A cut each month? Plus the OEM manufacturer would have to support (and apply their brand name) to an unfamiliar technology, etc. Any and all of these can be addressed so I'm not looking for a point-by-point debate, just saying that such deals are not usually immediately struck.

 

There is BTW some discussion about a future model at least displaying lat/long but I wouldn't hold my breath as it's just an idea on the drawing board at this stage. One of the reasons for the lack of a display, external power port, rechargeable batteries, etc. is that the unit is primarily intended as an emergency response tool first with casual tracking as a secondary function. As such the unit is designed to be extremely rugged, waterproof, and reliable as possible, thus the lack of case penetrations, fragile displays, rechargeable batteries (with the attendant unknown charge state and very short standby life with respect to lithiums.) If at some point the market indicates a demand for a device with recreational tracking as its primary purpose then things might change, but right now the idea is to use a rock as a model and try to make the unit only slightly less reliable than that, which is the only way to design a PLB-type device.

 

 

[der Wanderer]

Seth, those are all good questions but I don't see that as being so difficult.

 

For one thing there are precedents. Garmin supports MSN Direct on some GPS, with exactly the same questions obviously resolved. And the onboarding of XM on the GPS is not done without a business agreement and money changing hands. Since SPOT has been around as a business concept (not necessarily a customer offering) for aout as long as MSN Direct, this could/should be resolved by now.

 

Not debating it anymore than to point out, it is more frequently business intent and individual egos rather than practical issues that make or break deals.

 

As for your point on the unit's purpose as a rugged device to justify the lack of features, I can see it on a somewhat theoretical level, but come-on, there are billions of electronic devices with simple low power LCD screens out there and people know how to build them reliably if they want to. That includes graceful failure modes where the unit core functions continue to operate even if the optional functions (in this case screen) have failed. Worst case, they may feel they need both a proprietary device (for adventurers) and a subscription for inclusion in other devices (for everybody else).

 

It's very fine and sound business to make sure to capture the niche of adventurers. That said, it's not a huge market, whereas both the GPS and the geolocation markets are huge. If SPOT does not take aggressive strides to be the solution powering geolocation across the board, they soon will be roadkill in the back mirror of a Garmin.

 

Take our activity - if this capability was available for subscription at the same price in a Zumo, how many folks do you think would consider that the Zumo's rich feature set makes it intrinsically less reliable than the SPOT and would rather add a SPOT on their bike in addition to the Zumo? I say 0%. How many more would subscribe? I would not be surprised if it was 25%, more if it became say an official option in tracking Iron Butts, etc.

 

SPOT is missing its window. I think they fell in love and got mired in the sexy part of their business and missed the forest for the trees.

[der Wanderer]

I neglected to add that there are limited barriers to entry here. I cannot see what would prevent Garmin from negotiating the same access to satellite uplink and providing this without SPOT if they decided to do so. Like for MSN Direct, it would be simpler and faster to agree to a partnership, but if none is available, they could do it on their own.

[smiller]

All I can say is trust me, every conceivable idea has been up on a whiteboard at one time or another . There are simply practical limitations as to how far and how fast a brand new product like this can move and 'mission creep' can be just as dangerous in this instance as lack of a feature or two. Right now the focus is on a device that can go down the rapids tethered to your wrist and still be as near certain as possible to get you help for your newly-broken leg (and be affordable enough that you have it with you in the first place.) That is and will remain the focus right now, but there are a lot of exciting ideas on the board that go well beyond even your suggestions and perhaps we'll see some of them in the years ahead.

[DaveRT]

I've sorta looked at these a while back. I'm interested mainly for my winter pastime - snowmobiling.

I don't know if these units have been discussed here in the past but I'm wondering how well these units perform.

I have one and have used it on my snowmobile for two seasons. Works fine. Batteries lasted all season. It kept me in touch with the SO when out of cell phone range. Have used the tracking mode when on a yearly trip to Yellowstone park. Worked fine. People seem to want it to be something other than what it is. Have used it on my bike to let friends track our trips. Plan to use it on my 4 wheeler and when hunting this fall. I sled in Maine out of cell phone range. Used on a trip around Lake Superior and it worked fine in Canada. Buy it.

Here is a picture with the Spot on the rear bag.

Spot on the rear bag.

Spot on hood.

[RodB]

DaveRT

 

You are convincing me.

I have to say, those are great photos. I especially like the 1st one, I'll need to find that painted rock sometime and pose my "Doo" (that's my other 1200) in front. We are nearing the end of motorcycling season and the worst period - that in between time before the trails open.....

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

SPOT stuffed face up in a saddlebag:

http://jasonjonas.org/spot/tripViewer.do?id=694

 

SPOT face up in a tankbag:

http://jasonjonas.org/spot/tripViewer.do?id=1960

 

SPOT in a mount, face up with no obstuctions:

http://jasonjonas.org/spot/tripViewer.do?id=2218

 

For the record, EVERY SINGLE OKAY MESSAGE I have ever sent has processed. I have tested the HELP message several times with similar results.

 

Face up placement with no obstructions ensures best tracking reliability.

[RodB]

boney,

 

Looking at those maps, there are a lot of straight line tracking sections that look like you were in an airplane. Is that the way it's supposed to be?

I'm trying to learn about this stuff.

[GordonB]

The straight lines are merely a plotted path between signals. If your traveling very fast and cover a lot of twisty between signals (or perhaps the terrain blocked a few signals getting out) you end up with the straights.

[RodB]

OK, I get it now....cool.

[der Wanderer]

The straight lines are merely a plotted path between signals. If your traveling very fast and cover a lot of twisty between signals (or perhaps the terrain blocked a few signals getting out) you end up with the straights.

 

Assuming those points can be put in a .gpx file, they could be reimported into a range of routing software or even on a Garmin device to then recalculate/redraw an actual route, if that was desired.

 

So... can they be exported to a .gpx or similar?

[smiller]

So... can they be exported to a .gpx or similar?

Yes, points from the SPOT tracking page can be exported in GPX, CSV, or KML formats.

[Beemer_Nancy]

Just to tell the other side I've had nothing but problems getting my SPOT to track, with new batteries, sitting on the dash, in the clear plastic of the tankbag and on the tailrack. Despite calls and emails to customer service no resolution ever came so basically when my subscriptions expires that it for me.

First they told me it didn't work on the bike because the unit was too close to the spark plugs. Huh? Up on the tank? If in surburban LA it can't track me I have little confidence it'll know where I am out in the boonies. They've never offered to trade out the unit, they always suggest it's something I'm doing.

 

Rather than SPOT becoming a Garmin, I'm for my Zumo having a 911 button. Much more useful.

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

Nancy, the customer service for those having troubles with their Spots seems to be lacking. It's sad that the company doesn't take back the units that people are having trouble with and test them for functionality and construction flaws.

[smiller]

Hi Nancy,

 

A couple of things to check (beyond using fresh batteries, etc., which I'm sure you're already on top of)... like all GPS receivers initial acquisition can take a while if the unit has been off for a long time or if it has moved several hundred miles or more since its last use. If either condition has occurred it's always a good idea to send a 'check-in' message before putting the SPOT unit back in service. Once a position has been acquired subsequent fixes will be much faster, usually less than a minute. Also, you can do a bit of diagnostics by making sure that the green lights are flashing together, not alternately. If they are flashing alternately you do not have a good GPS fix, in which case the SPOT unit will not send routine messages.

 

If you are giving the unit enough time and have a clear view of the sky then operation should be quite reliable. If it is not and you really feel that you have a hardware problem then it might be time for a replacement. Since hardware problems are very rare customer service usually isn't too quick to suggest this route and I know that might be a little frustrating. The easiest option would probably be to return the unit to the point of retail purchase for an exchange (be sure to coordinate this with customer service so your account is linked to the correct unit), but if it has been too long or you bought online you should go to www.spotwarranty.com and follow the troubleshooting steps there, and if you are still having problems then request an RMA for replacement.