Formula 1 Grand Prix - It's boring!

[Paul Mihalka]

I watched the GP in Valencia this morning. Not one passing on the road. The race is decided by who picked the better strategy, was lucky with the tire pick, did not goof with a pit stop. I think NASCAR might be more interesting, and I can't think of anything worse to say. Only interesting thing is that 3 out of the top 4 had Mercedes motors.

[EffBee]

Yeah, I wrote to B.E. about how to fix it, but he was too busy hiding in the closet filming Max and the Nazi hookers.

[KLC]

I have to agree with you Paul as i do not even bother watching it any more. Its like a procession no with no overtaking seeming possible . It appears to me to be the team that gets it right in Qualification will win. Hopefully Moto GP will not go down the same route.

[OoPEZoO]

unfortunatly, it has also lost my interest over the past few years. I used to be a diehard fan that got up at any hour of the day/night to watch the race live. That went on for the better part of 10 years. I don't even think I've watched a whole race this year, and if I do turn it on I am usually working in the garage or hammering away on my laptop.

 

Its a shame.......it really has turned into a snooze fest.

[Jake]

I suppose we are also seeing the results of tragedies such as this:

 

Much of big-ticket auto racing is definitely boring. I was reading that in Jackie Stewart's hey-day, the odds of perishing behind the wheel of an F1 car over a 5 year career was something like 2 in 3. Ouch. He became a champion of safety, as did Ayrton Senna (pictured above on his fateful day).

 

Safety, good, but boring.

[AviP]

+1 on boring. But I'm glad that Brawn F1 has shown the big boys how it's done. I hope either of those old farts (Barrichello and Button) win the championships.

[onmyrt]

Street circuits, like Valenia and Monte Carlo, offer very little in terms of passing opportunities, and that's why qualifying is so critically important.

It's what leads up to the actual race that I find most interesting.

 

And as it turned out, the pole sitter didn't take the win, which was a bit surprising.

 

NASCAR might be more interesting

NASCAR always reminds me of that Garmin commercial where the GPS keeps repeating "turn left in 500 feet" over and over.

Very interesting........

[Huzband]

NASCAR always reminds me of that Garmin commercial where the GPS keeps repeating "turn left in 500 feet" over and over.

 

Yeah, but it's the right turns that keep it interesting.

 

 

As for F1, the starts are usually fun to watch. But after the fifth turn, the race is largely over. Too bad, used to be a great series to watch.

 

Parity sucks!

[russell_bynum]

NASCAR always reminds me of that Garmin commercial where the GPS keeps repeating "turn left in 500 feet" over and over.

 

Yeah, but it's the right turns that keep it interesting.

 

 

As for F1, the starts are usually fun to watch. But after the fifth turn, the race is largely over. Too bad, used to be a great series to watch.

 

Parity sucks!

 

Well, first of all, I think that the longer the race, the less likely you are to have good, hard, tight racing. That's just math...if you're .2 seconds a lap slower than the guy ahead of you, you might be able to scrap it out for 15 or 20 laps and make up for setup problems with sheer bravery. When the race is as long as these are, it just isn't likely to be tight at the end unless you have a safety car come out at the "Right" time.

 

That said...there's still some great racing in F1. Last year, the championship was decided on the last corner of the last race. The year before it was down to the last race, too.

 

It's funny....I'd never been a particular fan of F1, but I did watch it from time to time. Then it just seemed boring, so I stopped. I accidentally caught the last race of the season 2 seasons ago and was impressed with the quality of the racing. So I watched last season and enjoyed it tremendously. This season has been really interesting with Brawn and Red Bull off to an early lead and McLaren and Ferrari playing catch-up. Now it seems that the two big dogs are very much back in the fight.

 

 

 

If not for the screw-up with Hamilton's pit stop, we might have seen a really good fight there at the end.

 

 

 

Today's race wasn't particularly good, but I've still enjoyed this season a bunch.

[der Wanderer]

I have followed F1 very closely for about 30 years and at some point I had quite a bit of insider understanding. I agree with Paul, it's getting boring. I have a hard time admitting it even to myself, but it is.

 

I have memories of Jacques Villeneuve and Didier Pironi fighting it out, or daring passes, with Alesi and Seyna side by side for 4 turns... I have not seen anything like that in 15 years.

 

The technology is amazing, but there is no racing (as in back and forth passing) anymore. It's not really about parity ior safety n my opinion, it's the overwhelming priority given to aerodynamics and the computerization (automated gear shifts, etc). It's also horrendously boring tracks (with the exception of a handful, such as next week's Spa). Aerodynamics are evil, because they make it harder for the car behind, even if superior, to keep up with the car in front - exactly the contrary of what one would want in racing.

 

I follow other series where the level of talent may be less (GP2, Indycar Series, Champ Car, etc) but where I have more fun.

 

F1 is a money and ego machine. Very dysfunctional, but almost impossible to fix.

 

I would like to see those guys race on cars with half the downforce they have today - it's easy to make happen, just by reducing the surface of nose and rear wings and slightly increasing the minimal height of the cars. At that point, the cars would be much harder to drive. Add to that manual shifting and no electronic assist, and no more refueling, and you would have some real racing. Not as fast, but skill would be the deciding factor.

[onmyrt]

I would like to see those guys race on cars with half the downforce they have today - it's easy to make happen, just by reducing the surface of nose and rear wings and slightly increasing the minimal height of the cars. At that point, the cars would be much harder to drive. Add to that manual shifting and no electronic assist, and no more refueling, and you would have some real racing. Not as fast, but skill would be the deciding factor.

Because of safety concerns, beginning next season there will be no more mid-race refueling.

There's been several fueling incidents over the years that were potentially disastrous, and those fuel rigs have always been problematic.

So pit stops will be for tire changes only.

 

Unfortunately, taking away electronic assist and aero effects arguably raises safety concerns.

And amazingly F1 hasn't lost a driver since Senna back in 1994.

 

What I think makes Formula One really exciting to watch is having drivers like Schumacher and Montoya on track. The talent that those two guys possessed was truly a joy to watch.

It was a shame that Montoya left as he was the only driver that could give Schumi a good fight and it was also no surprise that Schuamcher was set to receive 5M per race to sit in for Massa.

 

But, both are gone now and aside from maybe Lewis Hamilton, the field is a bit boring compared to years passed.

 

 

[upflying]

What could be more boring than the IndyCar racing at Infineon in Sonoma Ca. yesterday? The pole sitter, Dario Farnchitti also led all 72 laps and won.

[swfraley]

Every year I give F1 another try. I really want to like it. Unfortunately, I usually give up by the end of the first race. It's unbelievably boring.

 

NASCAR is much more fun, but a good football is better still.

[John Ranalletta]

NASCAR is much more fun, but a good football is better still.

NASCAR - the only place in the US to find non fueled injected cars. TCOT will be a Checker Cab.

 

 

 

[CoarsegoldKid]

No dicing makes for a boring race. I tend to like the idea KERS, and 2.5 liter engines, and slicks. The wings are racy looking but less down force is a good idea so passing can be accomplished without them. I like knockout qualifying. It's the only part of the F1 weekend that I do like. With the current setup, P1 generally wins the race, not always, but the odds are in his favor. SO I say the qualifying efforts should be presented with points paying positions. For the race all cars are given a max fuel limit to start, no refueling during the race. And in my scenario the grid is set with reverse qualifying positions. The slower(0.2 seconds per lap) guys will get passed, we will see real racing. Those incar cameras will show us some good stuff.

[russell_bynum]

No dicing makes for a boring race. I tend to like the idea KERS, and 2.5 liter engines, and slicks. The wings are racy looking but less down force is a good idea so passing can be accomplished without them. I like knockout qualifying. It's the only part of the F1 weekend that I do like. With the current setup, P1 generally wins the race, not always, but the odds are in his favor. SO I say the qualifying efforts should be presented with points paying positions. For the race all cars are given a max fuel limit to start, no refueling during the race. And in my scenario the grid is set with reverse qualifying positions. The slower(0.2 seconds per lap) guys will get passed, we will see real racing. Those incar cameras will show us some good stuff.

 

What would stop people from intentionally qualifying poorly to get a better grid position?

[Bill_Walker]

I'm with der Wanderer (or, I guess, Ich bin mit der Wanderer). The level of technology has killed the racing. Being downforce and carbon brakes, braking zones have been reduced to what seems like a few feet, rendering passing under braking virtually impossible. Bike racing is generally so much better! Heck, even NASCAR is better when they run on a road course!

[der Wanderer]

What could be more boring than the IndyCar racing at Infineon in Sonoma Ca. yesterday? The pole sitter, Dario Farnchitti also led all 72 laps and won.

 

Not fair. I am not a huge fan (in the sense that I don't root for anyone in particular) but watched part of the race tape delayed on Speed. Very spectacular. An interesting track, lots of contact in the first lap, many attempts at passing on the track (some successful, some not). I thought it was a much better show than the F1 race.

[vizhip]

What would stop people from intentionally qualifying poorly to get a better grid position?

 

There is always that chance... but if you set the minimum qualifying time as being something that will challenge the drivers to beat... then they would really have to show their stuff in order to get a better grid position...

 

ie... can you see just coming in under the wire by 1/100 of a second ??? That would make the qualifying rounds more interesting...

 

Regards -

-Bob

[ghaverkamp]

No dicing makes for a boring race. I tend to like the idea KERS, and 2.5 liter engines, and slicks. The wings are racy looking but less down force is a good idea so passing can be accomplished without them. I like knockout qualifying. It's the only part of the F1 weekend that I do like. With the current setup, P1 generally wins the race, not always, but the odds are in his favor. SO I say the qualifying efforts should be presented with points paying positions. For the race all cars are given a max fuel limit to start, no refueling during the race. And in my scenario the grid is set with reverse qualifying positions. The slower(0.2 seconds per lap) guys will get passed, we will see real racing. Those incar cameras will show us some good stuff.

 

What would stop people from intentionally qualifying poorly to get a better grid position?

 

If I read the suggestion properly, the idea would be that qualifying performance would earn points. You'd have to make it such that it wouldn't be economically feasible to sandbag during qualifying for the likelihood of doing well during the race. Let's say you could get as many points for qualifying first as for winning. It might not make sense to dog it to end up in position 1, given that it is possible to be passed, crash, etc.

 

Combine that with the suggestion above to put a minimum time together (or some fraction of lap behind the fast time) to qualify, and maybe you'd be on to something. I dunno. It seems like a whole lot of speculation.

[flars]

Re: inverted grid.

Since it is almost impossible to pass on the brakes, it would be almost impossible for the guys behind to move up. They need to add mandatory pitstops, limit the number of people over the wall, limit fuel capacity so refueling is required, eliminate pressurized and gravity feed fueling, and eliminate assisted gear changes and engine management systems that control the pit lane speed so drive thru penalties could be assessed for speeding on pit lane.

NASCAR may not have the beauty of the F1 road courses, but they do offer Chance and Luck the opportunity to figure in the outcome. Also, even though a NASCAR driver may lead all the laps, you can bet there is a tremendous amount of pushing, shoving and eye gouging going on behinde him.

[CoarsegoldKid]

Yeah my inverted grid has some things to work out points wise to make it sandbag proof. As for impossible to pass on the brakes, Several drivers have done well, Rubens even won a race in a red car, from last on the grid. So it is possible.

[onmyrt]

Rubens even won a race in a red car, from last on the grid.

If I remember correctly, that was a wet race, and when it rains, anything can happen.

 

I just wish that F1 would stabilize and end the flip flopping in rules every season just for the sake of "making it a better show".

F1 has a long respected heritage and the commercial side of it is killing it.

 

The evil dwarf has even considered awarding metals instead of points, like at the Olympics....... WTF

Like that's going to make it more exciting.

[russell_bynum]

Rubens even won a race in a red car, from last on the grid.

If I remember correctly, that was a wet race, and when it rains, anything can happen.

 

I just wish that F1 would stabilize and end the flip flopping in rules every season just for the sake of "making it a better show".

F1 has a long respected heritage and the commercial side of it is killing it.

 

The evil dwarf has even considered awarding metals instead of points, like at the Olympics....... WTF

 

 

Wait a minute...I thought everyone was bitching about how it isn't good racing. (i.e. "not a good show") Isn't that what all these rule changes are about? Cut costs and make a better show? They did away with traction control and went to spec ECU. They're on spec tires. They went with less downforce (at least less rear downforce) this year. All of that was supposed to be to make for better racing. Now we're talking about no downforce, no electronic shifting, reverse qualifying, no pit stops, more pit stops, no refueling, more refueling, etc.

 

I don't understand how folks can say you can't pass on the brakes...that's where most of the passing I've seen has happened. Sometimes you'll see a KERS car do it on the gas, but most of the time passing happens on the brakes.

 

To me, it all comes down to the length of the race. The longer the race, the less likely you'll see hard wheel to wheel racing except for the first few laps and maybe the last couple of laps.

 

Even in World Superbike, which is fairly widely regarded as some of the best racing around, you still usually wind up with a bunch of stuff happening in the first few laps, and a bunch of stuff happening at the end, but usually not much in the middle.

[ghaverkamp]

Even in World Superbike, which is fairly widely regarded as some of the best racing around, you still usually wind up with a bunch of stuff happening in the first few laps, and a bunch of stuff happening at the end, but usually not much in the middle.

 

4-lap races it is, then.

[CoarsegoldKid]

Russell it just doesn't happen enough. Really a fluke I think. I believe MS in the other red car was a DNF that race. Rubens' Honda last year couldn't come through the pack without divine intervention. Scott Speed's Red Bull needed even more assistance. This year they show promise. Watching the Ferraris, Renaults and McLarans run though the pack would have been entertaining if they made them start at the back during the last few years. I believe that a top flight team/car/driver combo starting last will catch and pass the normal backmarkers before the end of the 2 hour race.

[russell_bynum]

Even in World Superbike, which is fairly widely regarded as some of the best racing around, you still usually wind up with a bunch of stuff happening in the first few laps, and a bunch of stuff happening at the end, but usually not much in the middle.

 

4-lap races it is, then.

 

I would have said 8 laps, but yeah...that would very likely give us lots of really exciting racing.