Finally, Final Drive Failure

[Highway41]

Bernie, Bill Jones, Matt S, Ira, Dianne and I were heading to Roebling Road today to watch N8 and the thousand do a track day. Just after the GA state line, the bike started to vibrate and lose steam. I headed for the shoulder thinking I had a flat but the rear locked up. A big red semi was getting close and personal but I got out of his way.

 

This shot is Bill Jones gathering "evidence"

 

Note the skid mark:

 

The dead u-joint. Not sure if the final drive is also dead but the housing is pretty beat up.

 

67K miles and after the BMW dealer in Plano replaced the seals/o-rings about 10K ago. Wish it had waited until the new motor comes out in the R.

Thanks to Bill Jones for keeping me company.

Bill

[Twisties]

So, ouch! Glad you are ok!

 

Not much fun, that.

 

Can you give us a bit of maintenance history on the FD and U-joint?

 

FD fluid changes? What lubricant? How much lube volume? Splines lubed at FD to U-joint?

 

I think this is the second u-joint failure now on the board. Keep us up to date with what you find.

 

Hopefully it's just the u-joint and not too expensive.

 

Does anyone know, is the U-joint internally lubed? I haven't ever seen anything on lubing it.

 

I put some moly lube on the splines when I do my FD fluid change because they get dry looking. Never cleaned 'em or anything.

 

How about the u-joint to FD junction... Never even looked back there myself.

[Switz]

Despite factory recommended service intervals (just like in cars where the idea is to sell parts down the road just after the warranty expires) I have the final drive, transmission and engine fluids changed at 3,000 mile intervals. I also have the spline shafts checked and greased during the service.

 

Tis a lot cheaper than being stranded at the top of Bear Tooth Pass in Montana!

[smiller]

Hopefully it's just the u-joint and not too expensive.

Unfortunately BMW doesn't give a rat's a.. what after-warranty service costs and you must buy a complete driveshaft assembly (at about $530) even if you just need a single u-joint. But perhaps a good driveshaft shop could rebuild the unit at a considerably lower expense, maybe even with better quality parts.

[Highway41]

It goes to the dealer tomorrow or Tuesday and I'll know more. I've had the FD fluid changed every 12K and the splines lubed at the same time. Plano BMW found it was leaking FD fluid out into the driveshaft housing about 10K ago and replaced the seal as well as add an o-ring but that is inside the FD housing. The gear set was fine at that time.

This appears to be simply a u-joint breaking. I was doing a steady 80 or so and had not touched a gear in 40 miles. Will report back once I hear how large the check will be.

Bill

[RBertalotto]

I sure hope the dealer put those splines back in phase when they lubed them.....Too bad you couldn't check this before they tear it apart.

 

It's amazing to me that these universal joints "explode" like that. Motorcycles are just not that heavy nor that powerful. It's extremely rare to see this in an automobile or a big truck even after hundreds of thousands of miles.

 

Glad you didn't go down........

[JayW]

I have the final drive, transmission and engine fluids changed at 3,000 mile intervals...Tis a lot cheaper than being stranded at the top of Bear Tooth Pass in Montana!

 

There is no evidence that over-maintaining these components results in fewer failures. I think you are just wasting time and money, but to each his own...

 

Jay

[Huzband]

Hopefully it's just the u-joint and not too expensive.

Unfortunately BMW doesn't give a rat's a.. what after-warranty service costs and you must buy a complete driveshaft assembly (at about $530) even if you just need a single u-joint. But perhaps a good driveshaft shop could rebuild the unit at a considerably lower expense, maybe even with better quality parts.

 

Good job on the positive reinforcement, Seth.

 

NOT!!!

[smiller]

Well, BMW's concern for after-warranty service was editorial comment but beyond that... you have to buy the entire driveshaft if you want it from BMW, and you can have the driveshaft rebuilt if you don't want to do that. Positive or negative those are the facts...

[Huzband]

I'm fully aware of BMW's somewhat sketchy after-warranty policies, & I use those terms loosely.

 

But dang dude, extend the guy a little confidence, that's all I meant.

 

Back to the thread at hand.

[smiller]

Hey, I didn't tell him he was about to get raped by his dealer... what more do you want?

[Paul In Australia]

Maybe we should wait and see what the dealer advises, before we jump to any all encompassing "editorial commentary".

 

We can't be sure of "attitude" before the case is presented.

regards

PCH

[Alan D]

I sure hope the dealer put those splines back in phase when they lubed them.....Too bad you couldn't check this before they tear it apart.

 

It's amazing to me that these universal joints "explode" like that. Motorcycles are just not that heavy nor that powerful. It's extremely rare to see this in an automobile or a big truck even after hundreds of thousands of miles.

 

Glad you didn't go down........

 

I did not know there was a "phase" for the splines. I understand there is one regarding the front and rear u-joint.

[aggieengineer]

After hunting around in the parts diagrams, it appears that sometime in 2008 the driveshaft was changed, and went up dramatically in price. Does anyone know what was done?

 

No Part Number Description Qty Each

01 26117665803 drive shaft, complete - Up to 01/2008 BUY 1 $658.91

01 26117706394 drive shaft - 01/2008 and above BUY 1 $941.82

 

The VIN on my 2008 model seems to call for the older version when the BMW factory parts website is consulted.

[T__]

I did not know there was a "phase" for the splines. I understand there is one regarding the front and rear u-joint.

 

Alan, there isn’t.. The only time you need worry about phase is if there is something that can be a problem if out-of-phase like U-joints.. Nothing in the final drive that cares where it matches up to the transmission output phase wise..

 

 

Twisty

 

[Missouri Bob]

After hunting around in the parts diagrams, it appears that sometime in 2008 the driveshaft was changed, and went up dramatically in price. Does anyone know what was done?

 

No Part Number Description Qty Each

01 26117665803 drive shaft, complete - Up to 01/2008 BUY 1 $658.91

01 26117706394 drive shaft - 01/2008 and above BUY 1 $941.82

 

The VIN on my 2008 model seems to call for the older version when the BMW factory parts website is consulted.

 

Swell. My new driveshaft had a suggested retail of $658. Until I can verify a part number, I will assume that the failed part was replaced with one of similar design. Hey, at least the dealer (and probably BMWNA, eventually) paid for it.

 

Bob

[Trinity]

Sorry to hear about your problems and great save from a locked rear wheel.

 

As an ongoing indication of the issue, at least two of this year's Iron Butt riders, on BMWs, are carrying a spare final drive WITH them. How's that for "confidence" in your chosen machine??

[smiller]

After hunting around in the parts diagrams, it appears that sometime in 2008 the driveshaft was changed, and went up dramatically in price. Does anyone know what was done?

 

No Part Number Description Qty Each

01 26117665803 drive shaft, complete - Up to 01/2008 BUY 1 $658.91

01 26117706394 drive shaft - 01/2008 and above BUY 1 $941.82

 

The VIN on my 2008 model seems to call for the older version when the BMW factory parts website is consulted.

The 2009 GT uses a new 'two piece' driveshaft (not sure what that means exactly), maybe the RT does as well?

[T__]

After hunting around in the parts diagrams, it appears that sometime in 2008 the driveshaft was changed, and went up dramatically in price. Does anyone know what was done?

 

No Part Number Description Qty Each

01 26117665803 drive shaft, complete - Up to 01/2008 BUY 1 $658.91

01 26117706394 drive shaft - 01/2008 and above BUY 1 $941.82

 

The VIN on my 2008 model seems to call for the older version when the BMW factory parts website is consulted.

 

 

aggieengineer, no idea.. I just looked & it seems there were no changes in the trans output or final drive pinion shaft at the same 01/2008 so if the books are correct ONLY a shaft change..

 

If you look in the books,, with both end drive/driven units,, the rear fork,, & other parts being the same for replacement those shafts “should” be interchangeable (at least fit wise).. Now either there is some sort of tuning difference (different rubber isolation,, or different phasing,, or possibly just a re-design due to some earlier failures..

 

Not sure why the later shaft doesn’t supercede the earlier shaft unless there was a tuning difference or BMW is just trying to purge out all the early shafts at a profit & didn’t want to risk the problems of replacing a stronger shaft with a earlier version..

 

Only BMW knows the “Why”..

 

Twisty

 

[b34cez]

In 2008 they have repositioned the FD oil drain screw (from lateral to below the FD), so that the oil can be drained without disassembling the FD. May be that this is the difference in part number.

Only wished they also made better FD, but seems not, as I have the new model and FD failure at 9,300 miles (15,000 km.)!

 

[Ken H.]

In 2008 they have repositioned the FD oil drain screw (from lateral to below the FD), so that the oil can be drained without disassembling the FD. May be that this is the difference in part number.

Only wished they also made better FD, but seems not, as I have the new model and FD failure at 9,300 miles (15,000 km.)!

Nope. This particular one is is a drive shaft failure (and part number difference) not a final drive issue, difference.

[Highway41]

Update with bad and maybe good news.

Bad is the swing arm/housing is beat up pretty bad and will need to be replaced. About a grand on top of the driveshaft and worse its back-ordered. Tire is flatspotted but not to the cords.

Good is that BMW is still talking and my comphrensive might cover the swingarm and tire.

FD itself appears OK.

Keeping fingers crossed for when the claims agent calls.

Bill

[Bernie]

Thanks for the update.

Keep you spirits up.

[Highway41]

Update #2 and no good news.

BMW is not going to warranty the driveshaft. Also, the swingarm is still backordered and may not be in in time for the BRR. Saw it today and the lip around the rear boot was pretty well eaten up and the forward part of the driveshaft put a pretty big divot in the side of the swingarm. The spot was dis-colored from the heat and I could push it in with my finger.

Bill

[Joe_C]

Did you check Beemer boneyard link to see if they have a used swingarm?

[Highway41]

Yup. Checked about everywhere. Dealer said today that the German supplier was supposed to deliver one but has not.

Bill

[Highway41]

Daytona BMW called today saying they have received the new swingarm and the bike should be ready Monday. Yeah!!!!

[Huzband]