computer issues during service

[stubblejumper]

At the 1,000 km check,the computer malfunctioned on my 2007 R1200ST during an update,and it took a few hours to reprogram it and get the bike running.I just had my bike in for the 10,000km check and when the tech attempted to load and update,the computer crashed again.Once more the phone calls to BMW took place,and after over two hours,the computer was reprogrammed,and the bike would start again.The tech claimed that this was a very rare situation,and suggested that when I take the bike in for the next service,I inform the tech working on the bike of the past history so that he does not try to update the computer.Has anyone else had this problem?

[Paul In Australia]

HI

Not exactly the same but similar. When the alarm was fitted ( month after purchase) the computer needed to update to recognise the alarm. It wouldn't accept the update. The problem took a day to fix. Eventually it related to the download of the update. The update when downloaded was corrupting. They got a cd ( hard copy ) and the update ran perfectly. Other people I know have had the same issue. Ask them if they are updating from a download or a BMW issue CD?

regards

[John]

Surely, with a new bike this is BMW's problem and not yours?

 

Let 'em fix it.

[Twisties]

Why should you be denied computer updates? Why should you be left with a computer that won't accept updates... how will this play out when the bike is out of warranty? Sounds to me if the tech is giving that advice, the tech thinks there is something wrong with it. Why then isn't is being fixed?

[T__]

stubblejumper, not a real rare situation.. That has been an ongoing problem from the get go on the Hexhead bikes.. Lots of reasons why it is happening.. A low battery voltage on the motorcycle can cause all kinds of programming issues so BMW has included “Connect BMW Motorrad battery charger” before any reprogramming begins..

 

Then as Paul said,, a slow or poor internet connection can cause all kinds of problems so BMW supposedly started supplying the updates to the dealers in CD/or/ DVD format..

 

My guess is it comes down to mainly operator error like improper hook up or improper bike set-up,, or power interruptions during programming,, or improper accessory selection,, or the operator just being unfamiliar with the procedure..

 

My local dealer had some issues early on but once they came up to speed on the procedure & what to do & not to do with the programming have had no further issues..

 

Twisty

 

[Switz]

RTFM is an old computer support acronym for "read the ******** manual". If these 90 day wonders (mechanics in training) from MMA in Phoenix and similar schools would admit their total ignorance and read the instructions, many of these issues would never happen.

 

I have had major screw ups done to my bike by the "BMW" mechanics at several different dealerships in the Southwest (AZ and NM) and incompetent service management stood behind the culprit because they were just as clueless. An example is failing to connect the return hose for the fuel system which caused the fuel pump to scream. The dealer said this sound was normal. Once the hose was connected, the noise disappeared. The bike was returned looking like it had been the pig in a greased pig contest at a state fair. The GSA had all the luggage racks installed by the dealer without any locktite. Several bolts and screws fell off during the first off road experience at about 1200 miles.

 

I have had to show them their errors and now take the bike(s) several hundred miles to a either a different dealership or private shop for service.

 

The lack of BMW service outlets nation wide is cause to think when on long trips in the Western states and to find out some are Not "up to speed" is even more disconcerting.

 

YMMV

[bmweerman]

RTFM is an old computer support acronym for "read the ******** manual". If these 90 day wonders (mechanics in training) from MMA in Phoenix and similar schools would admit their total ignorance and read the instructions, many of these issues would never happen.

 

I have had major screw ups done to my bike by the "BMW" mechanics at several different dealerships in the Southwest (AZ and NM) and incompetent service management stood behind the culprit because they were just as clueless. An example is failing to connect the return hose for the fuel system which caused the fuel pump to scream. The dealer said this sound was normal. Once the hose was connected, the noise disappeared. The bike was returned looking like it had been the pig in a greased pig contest at a state fair. The GSA had all the luggage racks installed by the dealer without any locktite. Several bolts and screws fell off during the first off road experience at about 1200 miles.

 

I have had to show them their errors and now take the bike(s) several hundred miles to a either a different dealership or private shop for service.

 

The lack of BMW service outlets nation wide is cause to think when on long trips in the Western states and to find out some are Not "up to speed" is even more disconcerting.

 

YMMV

 

Just for the record it is MMI (Motorcycle Mechanics Institute) and it takes at least 1 year to be certified in anything. (not 90 days) Many people spend up to three years there.

 

Ask anyone who has spent anytime with the GT1, from seasoned master techs to brand new tier 1 techs, and they will tell you that the system is notoriously buggy and crashy. Also the new technologies coming out of BMW are fantastic, but they are coming out so fast it is hard for everyone to keep up. Most of the technicians I have met and worked with would be the first to admit they did not know something and be happy to either find out, or point you in the direction of some help.

 

Over the years this board has helped me a great deal with wrenching on my bike and I have developed a great fondness for it. I had hoped that when I got certified and started working in a shop I could give back some of what had been given to me by sharing new found and up-to-date information.

 

Of late I have been spending quite a bit of time here. and it seems like there is a deep undercurrent of hatred and mistrust for BMW technicians and dealerships. This particular post is just the most direct example I have encountered.

 

It seems that instead I have become one of "them" and no longer one of "us." Guess it is time to find another place to hang out...thanks and it has been fun.

 

If there are any non-technician haters in the group, and you happen to be in the area, stop by Santa Fe BMW sometime and say hi.

 

It's been fun.

 

bmweerman....out........

[smiller]

Ask anyone who has spent anytime with the GT1, from seasoned master techs to brand new tier 1 techs, and they will tell you that the system is notoriously buggy and crashy.

And ask any customer (like me) who has had to wait hours while a tech worked to get their bike running again after an 'upgrade' (a mandatory upgrade that was forced on the tech by the GT-1 before he could do a simple TPM sensor swap.) And I still wonder if any upgrade was actually done because (per my GS-911) all of the software versions are exactly the same before and after... my guess is that they somehow rolled back just to get the bike running again or the update finally just failed, who knows... the one thing I'll apparently never get is a straight answer.

 

I've had a couple of recent dealer experiences due to warranty work and while the work itself was performed properly (with the exception of the aforementioned software debacle for which I tend not to blame the dealer but BMW) the info I got from the service advisor was usually dead wrong to the extent that it was actually amusing. I'm not sure whether the misinformation was intentional or not but either way it wasn't very impressive.

 

I'm not complaining because after reading the K-Bikes forum I apparently have the only K-GT in existence that runs great. And after the warranty is up I intend on keeping it that way by making sure no one lays a hand on the bike but me.

[vizhip]

Of late I have been spending quite a bit of time here. and it seems like there is a deep undercurrent of hatred and mistrust for BMW technicians and dealerships. This particular post is just the most direct example I have encountered.

 

It seems that instead I have become one of "them" and no longer one of "us." Guess it is time to find another place to hang out...thanks and it has been fun.

 

If there are any non-technician haters in the group, and you happen to be in the area, stop by Santa Fe BMW sometime and say hi.

 

It's been fun.

 

bmweerman....out........

 

Hate to see anyone driven away from a board because they felt the tone of the board was against them...

 

This is nothing against you what-so-ever bmweerman... I suspect that some folk here of late have run into issues with their bikes that the local mechanics were unable to fix properly for one reason or another...

 

In my case, the minimum fluid levels appears to have been a policy as the bike is fine and working... I just had to add oil to it rather quicker than expected...

 

As for some of the items not working on the bike... I don't blame the mechanics at all... They were given a time limit to have the bike serviced and running by management... and after someone has owned a bike for a while and removed many of the additions they had on it and left the wires behind, it makes it almost impossible for anyone to figure out what is going on without tracing down every single wire... and that would cost management money rather than make the bike available to turn a sale over...

 

Also... I was told up front that the extra equipment added was not in working condition... and they offered to look at the tail-light for me... but as stubborn as I am, I wanted it done in a way that I knew why it happened... thus if it happens again, I can resolve it myself...

 

I am certain that you have plenty to offer the forum and would be surprised to hear anyone speak out against you...

 

As for trust of dealerships going down... I think it is because the dealerships are trying to save as much money as possible to stay afloat and some of us can feel their pain... though fortunately the dealership near me seems to be ok... just has a couple of folk that I rather not deal with there... however... the tech I met in back was excellent and helped me quite a bit... so... I may grumble a bit... and this board provides a great anonymous place to do so, but when it comes down to it, they know the bike much better than I do and while I may change the easy fluids, I will still need to depend on them for the major maintenance of the bike... and some not so major...

 

so... take a deep breath and stick around... nothing is aimed at you and probably a lot of steam is let off from dealing with issues that may or may not be accurate in the blame...

 

It is just like any other job... you listen to the user, get a good picture in your mind of the issues and will be glad to try and help, but until you see the actual object, you have no real clue if what they described is accurate or not...

 

There is the old joke about the computer technician that had a user on the phone trying to talk them through their problems for over 30 minutes... checking all the cables, power connections, etc... and finally the technician was running out of things to check when the user said to hold on a sec... they needed to get another flashlight because the batteries were running low on this one... when the curious tech asked why they needed a flashlight the response was... oh... the power is out in the neighborhood, so I needed a light to see by so I could check the computer...

 

Okies... so that isn't an exact quote, but you get the idea... stick around, there will always be something to catch your eye where you can jump in and assist or show where we have made a mistake or even stated something that was untrue and you know the real truth...

 

Just don't take it personally when we get mad at a local mechanic because he missed something we think he should have gotten correct... whether it required mind-reading or not... )))

 

Regards -

-Bob

[Paul In Australia]

Hi All

I agree with Bob. At times frustration does come to ahead. BUT i would add there are some contributors who only see black and white and appear to dislike the BMW company and its service.

It is patently incorrect to communicate the impression "BMW" gives bad service, builds lousy bikes or dealers don't care. Obviously there is a small percentage of dealers and product that may fall into this category, but it is only small.

We need to keep the comments in context. Don't please generalise that it is Typical of "BMW", because lots of us have experience that that is not true.

Otherwise BMW would not be the global auto engineering firm that it is.

 

So Beemerman, stay in the forum and learn to ignore the black and white opinions. We need your expertise to add the generally unbelievably helpful attitude of 99% of the rest of the members.

 

BTW the issue at my dealers with the download was not a BMW issue or a dealer issue, it was an ISP issue that limited downloads to a particular size on a monthly plan, therefore ending the direct update before it was finalised, without notice. Common occurrence in Australia. Don't know how you could blame BMW or the dealer for that. Anyway it was fixed on the same day.

 

best regards

 

 

 

[lawnchairboy]

I suspect that some folk here of late have run into issues with their bikes that the local mechanics were unable to fix properly for one reason or another...

 

 

What, like knowing what the proper oil capacity is for an R12 bike when you pay 90$ (on the road) for the service and then wondering why 5 minutes after you leave the dealer you are on the side of the road looking at an empty sight glass?

 

DAMHIK

[bmweerman]

Thanks to you a vzip...Guess I got a little thin skinned. Ok, I got a lot thin skinned and took something personally that I should not have.

 

Appreciate your input and will be hanging around.

 

Best.

 

bmweerman

[vizhip]

Thanks to you a vzip...Guess I got a little thin skinned. Ok, I got a lot thin skinned and took something personally that I should not have.

 

Appreciate your input and will be hanging around.

 

Best.

 

bmweerman

 

WOOT !!! welcome back...

 

and no worries... feel free to pick on me anytime you want... I am definitely learning in ALL fields, not just motorcycles, although I am trying...

 

Okies... no comments from the peanut gallery about how trying I can be... I know there are a lot of different connotations to that phrase... )))

 

You would think that at my age I would know SOMETHING by now... )))

 

Now then... where was I... )))

 

Regards -

-Bob

[Paul In Australia]

good on ya mate.

regards

pch

[vizhip]

What, like knowing what the proper oil capacity is for an R12 bike when you pay 90$ (on the road) for the service and then wondering why 5 minutes after you leave the dealer you are on the side of the road looking at an empty sight glass?

 

DAMHIK

 

Funny thing that... If you look it up in the manual, it says one value... 3.5 L (3.7 qt) for oil change only... but if you look below that, it says 3.75 L (4.0 qt) for oil change and filter...

 

I think we all know what happens if you OVERFILL the oil... so... the dealership is going to put in 4 quarts with a filter change... after making sure that they have drained every bit of oil out that they can get...

 

However... I suspect that the 4 quarts does not include that oil which is trapped in other sections of the engine... In fact... I have noticed that when I first start the engine, my oil idiot lights indicate the oil at one level... but once the bike is warmed up and running like a dream, the idiot lights show the oil at a different level... so clearly it gets pumping into other areas of the bike and thus could probably use a little touch up...

 

In fact... correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the 4 quarts bring the line up to the bottom of the glass... not the top ??? and don't you have to move the bike from the side stand to the center stand to get a true reading on the oil in the window AFTER the bike has been shut off for 10 minutes or so ???

 

Plus... as others have pointed out... oil has a habit of disappearing on the bike during the break-in period... which lasts for more miles than that of a car's break-in period... then it just stops using as much oil as before...

 

The curious question is... how do you PROPERLY break-in a bike ???

 

With a car, you baby it at first, then drive it hard for 2000 miles, then drive it normal for the next 3000 and you have a car that will treat you well if you treat it well... at least... that has always worked for the last 4 Camaro's that I have owned... all which went well over 100k miles except the one that was stolen...

 

so... is there a rule of thumb for breaking in bikes so that the oil will stop being used so much ???

 

And you notice that I stopped just short of the fun question that has been pondered over and over and over about when the bike is ready for synthetic oil ... )))

 

and yes... I am a HUGE believer in synthetics...

 

Oh yeah... should I point out the differences in the various manuals about fuel capacity for my bike ??? There are 3 different values... even in the official BMW books...

 

but then, BMW has had to make bikes for requirements by Europe, the USA and elsewhere... and while the outside looks the same on the show-room... one of the first things folks here ask about the exhaust is whether it has emissions controls on it or not...

 

I suspect the mechanics know what the oil levels are for all the bikes... then just follow policy and fill it to the minimum safe levels and trust you to follow through with T-CLOCK to set it to the levels required for your riding...

 

And since it just occurred to me that many may not have taken a rider's safety/training course... guess I should spell out what T-CLOCK stands for...

 

Tires/Wheels

Cables and controls

Lights

Oil and fluids

Chasis

Kickstand (side stand)

 

Okies... so I keep adding an extra S to the end... (sigh)...

 

A really good explanation of the pieces can be found at:

 

http://micapeak.com/info/T-CLOCK.html

 

although... for us RT owners... inspecting the battery is kind of a prayer of faith, because I - for one - am NOT removing the fairing every time I want to take my bike out on a ride... )))

 

And anyone that watches me START the bike will get a laugh as I attempt to remember FINE-C and keep reaching down for that fuel lever that isn't there on the RT...

 

Fuel cutoff

Ignition switch

Neutral

Engine cutoff

Clutch

 

And yes... even though it is already in neutral, I grab the clutch when starting the bike... and before you ask about the side stand... I make that part of mounting the bike...

 

grabbing the front brake... swinging my leg over, settling on the bike and sweeping the kick stand up into the riding position...

 

GEEZ... how did I get to this from a statement about mechanics knowing oil levels... hmmmm... gotta be old age and forgetting what I was talking about originally as my mind tracked all over the place... )))

 

Bottom line... and something I do with my car as well... when you get it back from a service... fill it up with gas and check the fluid levels... make sure that they are how YOU run the bike... the mechanics will only set the levels per the way the manufacturer says to... unless they have a ton of experience on your type of bike and may know a little different about what it should be...

 

And of course... this is all just my opinion and probably should be taken with a grain of salt, preferably around the rim of the glass while relaxing, but only when not riding for an hour per drink... )))

 

Do you think I learned anything from the class I took 4 months ago ??? )))

 

Regards -

-Bob

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

Hey Bob, what's with the repeated comment about Okies. I think my feelings are hurt...I'm a really sensitive guy.

 

Yeah right, I tried to explain a real world manifestation of coriolis acceleration...and I'm still hanging around. The internet isn't for the thin skinned.

[vizhip]

Hey Bob, what's with the repeated comment about Okies. I think my feelings are hurt...I'm a really sensitive guy.

 

Hmmm... should sit in MY shoes for a while... Try walking into a music education VOICE class with a Tennessee hillbilly accent... That and all these little slang terms I have some how developed over the years... well... it definitely gets the attention of those sitting around listening... well... for as long as they are ABLE to listen before they fall out of their chair laughing so loud that they can no longer listen... )))

 

and besides... I thought you guys were SOONERS... not OKIES... ))) Means I am going to have to pick on one of my friends about that one... ))) and yes... I think I actually do still have one or two friends laying about... and no... they aren't 6 feet under yet...

 

Yeah right, I tried to explain a real world manifestation of coriolis acceleration...and I'm still hanging around. The internet isn't for the thin skinned.

 

Wow... that would have been fun to sit in on... Did you postulate the object in relation to the earth or something else in space ??? or did you try and come up with something a bit closer to home ??? )))

 

As for thin skinned... of course we are... thus we ride ATGATT... )))

 

Regards -

-Bob

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

Oh man you really did it this time. Look at where I'm from; Stilwater Oklahoma, home of the Oklahoma State Cowboys. I'm and OSU grad and I work for OSU. Sooners, geeze couldn't you have come up with something more offensive. That's it, this board obviously lacks sensitivity and therefore I'm going to have to go away. I just can't take any more of this.

[JoelInMA]

"Sooners" is not a derogatory term (well, I guess it sort of is since they were the folks who managed to get themselves into the area that was being opened by the land run of 1889 just a little bit ahead of the official starting time in order to claim some of the best parcels) but "Okie" is. It probably wasn't in the early days of Oklahoma, but after the Great Depression and the Dust Bowl era, those from Oklahoma (and Texas, and Arkansas, and....) who pulled up stakes and headed west were known as "Okies" collectively and somewhat derisively, at least by Californians and other western state inhabitants. My maternal family purchased their farm in 1890 from one who had made the run (not a "Sooner" as far as I know!) and the few remaining who remember those times aren't overly fond of the term.

 

Being literally an Okie from Muskogee, I myself don't take TOO much offense at the term.

[vizhip]

Sooners, geeze couldn't you have come up with something more offensive.

 

Hmmm... Texas has a decent offense ... or they are supposed to have one this year... and then there is Florida... )))

 

Of course... I could have said Aggie... )))

 

Regards -

-Bob

 

-- and if I have really offended you somehow, I apologize... --

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

I'm absolutely not really offended. In fact as long as you leave off commenting on my Mother or Wife, I'm basically unoffendable (?). Was just having some fun with the post.

 

In fact, as described earlier...the term Okie was originally given to us by the west coasters and was intended to be derogatory. Being in general hard working and thick skinned, the intended insult became a proudly worn title defining the character of those who were proud to be an Okie…from Muskogee or anywhere else for that matter. I know this to be true cause I seen it on the Discovery channel..or the Learning channel..or one of them educational broadcasts.

 

[vizhip]

I'm absolutely not really offended. In fact as long as you leave off commenting on my Mother or Wife, I'm basically unoffendable (?). Was just having some fun with the post.

 

Glad to hear it... now I guess the forum admins would like to get back to the subject at hand... )))

 

Regards -

-Bob

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

What were we talking about????

[roadhome]

Stogies....in Muskogee? or the fundamental application of physics as related to offensive (or offended) BMW technicians or riders. I think one of these may have been the topic. Either way, this is good forumin!

[motoguy128]

I'm not impressed with the whole BMW computer system. I've had my bieks' computer completely crash and get whipped out after they repalced my fuel strip and did an update. They had ot get a new CD coded for my VIN from BMW to do a reinstall. It took a week and they delivered my biek ot me.

 

At the last service, their GT1 was not working...again. SO they could not do my ABS service because after servicing the ABS, they like to recheck the TB synch incase the position of any cables changed when they pulled the bike apart.

 

I noticed the owner had a very nice, fairly new BMW Z4 roadster... I think the M series too. Maybe she should have bought a second GT1...and settled or a 3 series. But, I'm not about to tell her how to run their business.

 

I jsut seems like every time I go in for service...mind you I onl have 12,000 miles on my RT... there is some kind of computer problem. It's only happened twice, so right now it's just a coincidence.

 

Funny thing, is that at every service, SOMETHING has happened. at the 600 mile wervice, the final drive leaked out the ABS sensor because the o-ring got pinched when it was reinserted after filling.

[Nice n Easy Rider]

I jsut seems like every time I go in for service...mind you I onl have 12,000 miles on my RT... there is some kind of computer problem. It's only happened twice, so right now it's just a coincidence.

 

Funny thing, is that at every service, SOMETHING has happened. at the 600 mile wervice, the final drive leaked out the ABS sensor because the o-ring got pinched when it was reinserted after filling.

Motoguy,

It seems to me that there are three parts to a service: (1) the bike being serviced; (2) the parts/supplies being used in the service; and (3) the personnel doing the service.

Could it be that in the case of your bike it is the third part that is somewhat lacking? That would explain repetitive problems occurring at service on a low mileage bike.

[4wheeldog]

Thanks to you a vzip...Guess I got a little thin skinned. Ok, I got a lot thin skinned and took something personally that I should not have.

 

Appreciate your input and will be hanging around.

 

Best.

 

bmweerman

 

My experience has been that the techs have in general tried to do the best job possible, but a couple of service managers have tried overly hard to blow smoke where I do not let the sun shine. The exception is when the tech sent me down the road without putting drop one of gear lube in my brand new final drive.

 

I avoid dealerships for service because I value my life......And they have put it in serious jeopardy several times. Mostly the service manager.....But at least one tech as well.