I need all the wisdom/advice I can get - final drive

[ShabbyLeo]

Well, the story goes something like this. Went out on a ride today, about 150 miles each way. On the way to destination at a stop I smell what seems like burnt clutch, but at the time think that it must be the semi in front of me. After having the bike sit and cool down before the return home, it didn't seem right. The back tire seemed to be wobbling and during each revolution would make a whoomp whoomp sound. I pull over and look things over and everything looks ok, and think at this point that my rear brake may be dragging on the rotor. I get back on the road and the noise goes away. 100 miles up the road we stop for gas and the bike sits turned off for about 15 minutes. Immediately after getting back on the road at even low speed the back wheel is wobbling like its about to fall off with a loud metallic dragging grinding sound with each revolution of the rear wheel. I pull over immediately knowing that this is bad. Examining the final drive I realize that the rear brake pads are gone and that the caliper metal is grinding against the rotor. The screws that hold the rotor on are even ground down. Gear oil is now leaking out of the final drive onto the wheel. There's no more riding this bike today, and I get a ride home on the rear seat of a motorcycle for the first time since I was a kid.

 

So whats the damage? Is this the normal chain of events that happen when final drive fails? Bike is 2004 R1150RT with 118K miles. How much is this going to cost getting fixed, and is this something I can fix? Anyone around Augusta, GA that knows how to fix this problem that I can take the bike to?

 

After looking back on the performance of the bike during the past months I think there may have been a rear wheel wobble that progressively got worse. The wobble seemed like it was related to torque; during hard acceleration the rear would kind of shift to the side, and closing the throttle fast created a rear wheel shift to the other direction.

 

Is there suppose to be any rear torque shift in the rear, or should it have been tight all along? Any help you can provide me getting this problem fixed is appreciated.

 

Matt

[T__]

Leo, it sure sounds like you have a failed final drive.. How much damage inside we don’t know.. You (or anybody else) won’t know the extent of the damage until the final drive is opened up,, disassembled,, cleaned up,, & inspected.. It will more than likely need at least the crown bearing & seals..

 

As far as you doing it or having it done? That depends on how mechanically gifted you are & what tools & measuring equipment you have at home..

 

It sure isn’t a do it yourself project if you are not used to doing this sort of thing.. Some of us do have the know how & tools in our home shop so in those cases it isn’t rocket science (actually fairly easy with the correct tools & measuring equipment)..

 

You can probably have upwards or $700.00 in it if done by a real professional that takes the time to DO IT CORRECTLY.. A lot of dealers will charge you less but I have my doubts that a lot of them go to the trouble & time to do it correctly..

 

You can easily take it apart yourself to see what went wrong.. Maybe it is too torn up to even bother with it run long enough to ruin the crown gear or pinion gear..

 

 

Twisty

 

[Tony_K]

You missed or ignored lots of tell tale signs of failing final drive.

 

Remove the drive and open it up to survey damage or just locate a replacement.

 

 

[smiller]

Twisty pretty much said it all. And after that many miles and that kind of failure mode I kind of wonder if there's enough left to be worth repairing.

[OoPEZoO]

I would remove it from the bike and take it to a reputable dealer for a rebuild. Here was the cost breakdown from when mine failed

 

Final bill came to $425.87 for a complete rebuild.

 

$185.76 (parts) + $216 (labor $60 X 3.6 Hrs) + 6% sales tax

 

That was with me removing the final drive, disassembing it, cleaning the parts, and dropping it off at the dealer in a box. It definitly would have been more if I had just taken the whole bike in.

 

[11101110]

I took mine off took it to one dealer who said they didn't have anyone to fix it. Shipped it to a second dealer who said they didn't have the tools to fix it. Finally drove it up to Charlottesville VA to Anton and he fixed it while I waited, watched and LEARNED. My bill was $700 which included replacement of all bearings. It was the tapper that had self destructed taking the needle bearing with it and doing its best to destroy combo and crown bearings as well. If you go to a dealer make sure they completely disassemble the drive, wash and check all the bearings. just replacing the bad bearing is not a complete fix. Remember they all use the same lube oil so any bearing parts in the oil can end up destroying the other bearings. But from your description of symptoms you may need more than bearings on the inside. If any of the bearings have spun on either of the shafts too much, a new bearing will not fit tight as it should. You then need an axle. At which point you might consider finding a used FD and having it rebuilt.

[ShabbyLeo]

Thanks all for confirmation. A question I still have is whether the torque sway of the rear is normal, or is an indicator of failure? Should the rear feel like it pulls a little to the side, or was this because the bearing was gone? If I look for a used final drive are other years and models FD compatible to use as a replacement? If so what years and models for my 2004 RT?

 

Thanks again

Matt

[Boffin]

Thanks all for confirmation. A question I still have is whether the torque sway of the rear is normal, or is an indicator of failure? Should the rear feel like it pulls a little to the side, or was this because the bearing was gone? If I look for a used final drive are other years and models FD compatible to use as a replacement? If so what years and models for my 2004 RT?

 

Thanks again

Matt

 

There should be no play in the read drive. Torque sway suggests that one of the FD bearings had already failed. At that point it would probably have been an easy rebuild. Right now I would go to BeemerBoneyard to see if they have a used drive - or watch ebay/craiglist etc.

 

Andy

[T__]

Thanks all for confirmation. A question I still have is whether the torque sway of the rear is normal, or is an indicator of failure? Should the rear feel like it pulls a little to the side, or was this because the bearing was gone? If I look for a used final drive are other years and models FD compatible to use as a replacement? If so what years and models for my 2004 RT?

 

Thanks again

Matt

 

Matt, not exactly sure what you are referring to on the torque/sway.. The BMW 1100/1150’s do have a little latent pull to right while riding but otherwise are pretty darn directionally stable going down the road..

 

A lot depends on tire condition though.. Motorcycle tires can & do wear with strange wear patterns & that can cause some stability & directional feel issues..

 

If your rear wheel was flopping around due to a loose bearings then I’m sure it (your bike) had handling issues..

 

Get the final drive repaired (or replaced) then verify the rear torque tube bearings are tight (or not worn out) then ride the bike.. If your complaint torque/sway is gone then you know what the problem was..

 

Twisty

 

[ragtoplvr]

I FIRMLY believe that everyone who rides an oilhead, should know how to check for slack in the final drive. It is so easy and relatively inexpensive in the spectrum of motorcycle repair to fix if caught early. Cost is not much more than a set of tires dealer installed. Let it go and besides the potential of an accident, the expense rises. I do it every time I check the oil and tire pressure.

 

When you have this repaired, have the mechanic show you how to check so you can get it fixed earlier.

 

Rod

[Watchword]

The final drive on my 2002RT has just gone out for the 4th time in the last 2 years! Ventura BMW repairs it for free under warranty but I'm so disgusted I may have to buy a new bike even though mine only has 70,000 miles.

[Stan Walker]

Ventura BMW repairs it for free under warranty

 

While free is a good price, I would still expect reasonable service life.

 

My '02 is at 111,000 miles with no failures although I did replace the crown bearing seal around 40,000 miles ago.

 

Stan

[smiller]

The final drive on my 2002RT has just gone out for the 4th time in the last 2 years!

Which is what happens when it is set up incorrectly upon assembly. Otherwise there is simply no reason for such frequent failures, you should be see at least a 100k mile service life out of a properly set up final drive.

[OoPEZoO]

The final drive on my 2002RT has just gone out for the 4th time in the last 2 years!

Which is what happens when it is set up incorrectly upon assembly. Otherwise there is simply no reason for such frequent failures, you should be see at least a 100k mile service life out of a properly set up final drive.

 

+1......next time, I would have them paying someone else to fix it properly

[ShabbyLeo]

I located a used FD on eBay so I'm going to try that approach, really don't want to get too much money into the bike. Ya, the bike really did have the tell tale signs of pending failure, the excess brake dust on the rear wheel and rear wheel torque slop. After looking over the replacement procedure in the repair manual I have a few questions. Does there exist more detailed replacement instructions somewhere? Will the universal joint slide right out of the drive shaft and FD? Are there alignment marks on the drive shaft and universal for proper orientation, or do I need to make my own marks prior to removal?

[11101110]

Does there exist more detailed replacement instructions somewhere?

 

bmwmc.net

 

Will the universal joint slide right out of the drive shaft and FD?

 

yep

 

Are there alignment marks on the drive shaft and universal for proper orientation, or do I need to make my own marks prior to removal?

 

I really hope not cause I did not do that when I reinstalled mine. Though you do need to be sure to get the male shaft in the female shaft. I missed the first time and had the pivot bolts all torqued and loctited before I realized it. And if you use honda moly 60 past on the shaft, as you should, wear rubber gloves as it will get everywhere.

 

Tools you might need that I had to buy.

BA torque wrench 1/2" drive, up to 200 ft-lb

12mm allen drive for a 1/2" drive

30mm socket 1/2" drive.

 

Harbor freight usually has a large allen drive set (includes 17mm drive) which is of decent quality for the number of time you will need it.

[ianboydsnr]

I located a used FD on eBay so I'm going to try that approach, really don't want to get too much money into the bike. Ya, the bike really did have the tell tale signs of pending failure, the excess brake dust on the rear wheel and rear wheel torque slop. After looking over the replacement procedure in the repair manual I have a few questions. Does there exist more detailed replacement instructions somewhere? Will the universal joint slide right out of the drive shaft and FD? Are there alignment marks on the drive shaft and universal for proper orientation, or do I need to make my own marks prior to removal?

 

the driveshaft will stay in place and the FD will slide right off, on a later 1150, the driveshaft can only be fitted in the correct orientation, as one of the rear splines is uncut, which matches an uncut spline in the UJ, when refitting, use a cloth to raise the driveshaft centrally, so you can slide the FD back on, once on, pull out the cloth, if the paralever bearings need replaced, then use a prybar or large screwdriver, to lever the UJ out, you may have to hit the prybar with a mallet as the UJ is held by a snap ring, then use a socket and extension bar with a hammer to drift out the old bearings and drift in the new ones.