CAT Code Plug Pin-outs

[NumbHands]

Hi,

Does anyone know which socket is which for the CCP socket? I never received a CCP on my used bike, so can't get started using Twisty's post of a few years ago:

 

"All the CCP does is JUMPER the following terminals together.. If you look at the bottom of your current CCP you should see the terminal positions marked.. Just make up a 3 wire jumper & add 3 spade terminals & you can easily duplicate all but the brown CCP (it’s not a good one anyhow so you will never use that configuration) ..

 

I actually gutted & modified an old Bosch 5 pin relay & added a 3 position switch to the top of it so I could have GREEN,, PINK,, & NONE at the flick of a switch.. Still had to pull the Motronic fuse after each change though..

 

 

Pink CCP, 30-87-87a ____P/N = 61368366-625

 

Yellow CCP, 30-87

 

Blue CCP, 30-86-87a

 

Beige CCP, 30-87a

 

Brown CCP, 30-86-87-87a

 

Olive Green CCP (30-86) ____ P/N = 61368366-621

 

Twisty"

 

Thanks.

 

Michael

[T__]

Michael, W-e-l-l.. I have it but at the moment sure can’t find it..

 

The only way to be (positively) sure on those socket pins is to look at the appropriate CCP’s..

 

SO, here’s the deal,, I have (somewhere) in my possession a bag of CCP’s.. Not sure I have all of them but probably enough to get the pin-out identified.. I used to know them all from memory but it has been a long time since & have messed with the CCP configurations..

 

At the time that I was doing a lot of 1100/1150 CCP trial & error & ride off’s I was basically keeping my records in analog form (commonly known as a pocket notebook).. I have since moved most of that data into my computer files but I either didn’t transfer that info or it wasn’t saved under any name than I find it under..

 

So here’s the deal--- I will look for that bag “O” CCP’s,, I will also try to find the data I saved on the CCP pin outs (have no idea where to look at the moment though)..

 

The CCP pin-out numbers coincide with Bosch relay pin numbers but if I recall correctly they are in slightly different locations..

 

In the mean time hopefully some of the members here will have a CCP of different colors & post a picture of the bottom (pin area).. If we get a few different colors with pins showing we can easily figure the pin positions..

 

 

Twisty

 

[T__]

 

Michael, I haven’t located the bag O CCP’s yet but we can get you started on some CCP’s to try..

 

The picture shows the Pink,, Green,, & Brown..

 

You can jumper A to C (that is either Yellow or Beige).. Then jumper A to D as that is the other one (Yellow or Beige).. IE, Yellow is either A to C or A to D,, Beige is either A to C or A to D.. You won’t know what color is what but if you like one over the other it doesn’t really matter..

 

I guess the only one you won’t be able to get is the Blue but you can try A_B_C then A_B_D as one of that combination will be the blue.. (we know the 30 pin & the 86 pin.. We also know the 87 & 87a pins but not sure which is which.. I ran off a blue pin out on my 1150RT & hated it though..

 

 

 

 

 

Twisty

[NumbHands]

Thanks Twisty. I don't think this will help enumerate the pin #s, but this scanned page below is what I got with the bike. Apparently this was provided by the muffler guy after OEM was replaced with a Remus with no cat converter.

 

 

 

I am currently using "Stage 1 U.S.Only Stock Exhaust." Note this is only 2 pins. Looks like it would correspond with the Green plug. Was Pink the default on the 02 RT?

 

Michael

 

[T__]

Michael, yes, it looks like you are using the GREEN CCP setting.. That is/was pretty decent in most of my testing.. Worked decent with stock Motronic.. Wasn’t as good as Pink when Techlusion was used & tuned correctly..

 

I had no way to track it but the Pink (subjective evaluation) seemed to offer the best spark advance curve & crispest overall operation but gave the most light throttle engine surging.. If a fuel controller (like the Techlusion) was used to mask the surging the Pink forced a very good spark & open loop mapping.. This was on the single spark 1150.. I didn’t do any work on the twin spark 1150’s..

 

As far as the PINK being the default RT? Pretty much so.. I am not sure 100% but most I have worked with used the PINK as stock on the USA single spark 1150RT.. There was a BMW directive to use the GREEN in some European 1150RT’s that complained of surging issues..

 

Some of the 1150GS’s seemed to use the Yellow CCP..

 

Twisty

 

[NumbHands]

Thanks.

 

I never had a surging problem as this '02's heads were modified and two more spark plugs added by San Jose BMW. I run 3923's in all of them.

I think I will try the pink first.

[T__]

Michael, with you having a twin spark upgrade you might also play with the spark advance a little.. As a rule when running those lower spark plugs in conjunction with the uppers the engine can live with a little more ign advance due to better combustion flame propagation..

 

Just mark you ign plate where it is now (so you can put it back if necessary) then loosen the screws & try advancing it slightly..

 

Twisty

 

[NumbHands]

Twisty -Looking at the ign plate, to advance you move it clockwise? Slightly advancing = .125 inch for starters?

 

About 6 weeks ago, I replaced the alt belt while replacing the shocks. Ohlins = nice, btw.

 

I did not do a TB synch as the previous valve/TB synch worked out well and less than 2K miles ago.

 

So after buttoning the bike all up, I got about a 50 rpm drop at hot idle, a little buzz in the handlebars and knees when pressed to the tanks that weren't there before, an increase in gas mileage, and flat spots in throttle response-especially at 4-5K rpm. Oh, and I little harder to start - longer cranking. I did have the tank off while replacing the shocks and belt.

 

Do you suppose I could have moved the timing plate while wrestling with the belt? I also "lost" a couple of bars in the RID gas gauge. Perhaps it is starving a little for fuel? I don't think I could have screwed up the quick connects as they have been set with one male and one female end on the tank side.

 

Anyway, wondering what thoughts are out there on what may be the prime suspect.

[Edgar]

It's possible that you could have affected timing by what you did, if you whacked the pulley good. I did notice easier starting, and better idling when I replaced my HES (timing changed ever so slightly). Just the opposite of what you have. So go though the timing procedure and check it out.

You could have upset the throttle cables when you removed the covers and tank thus causing the TB's to be out of sync also. (that won't affect starting). The RID does sometimes go wacky when the tank is removed. Sometimes it settles down quickly some times not.

[T__]

Michael, while about anything is possible I have serious doubts you effected your ign timing when replacing the belt..

 

Unless grossly off,, the ign timing shouldn’t effect your knee buzz or starting (cranking) times..

 

You could have easily have bumped your throttle cables or effected the TBI balance so a quick check there should be done..

 

Maybe make sure you have the fuel tank vent hooked up properly & verify the fuel return hose is FULLY inserted (if not connected properly it will drive fuel pressure high).. Are you hearing any more fuel pump noise?

 

Otherwise maybe just a tank full of different gasoline or maybe one of your spark plug wires is loose or a plug not working correctly.. Will it operate OK with one set (lowers) shorted then the other (uppers) shorted?

 

Did you get the AIT (air inlet temp) switch re-connected on the air cleaner lid? How about the oil temp sensor connector?

 

Did you do also do an oil change? If so is the crankcase overfilled?

 

Twisty

 

[Steve W.]

From my notes and the engine wiring diagram. The "bike" side socket is numbered right to left, top to bottom looking from the rear of the bike to the front. The tiny numbers are on the socket. 1-9 with 5 in the middle, only 2,5,6,8 are used. The socket numbers corespond to the ccp numbers as:

 

2=87, 5=87a, 6=30, 8=86.

 

(As per the engine wiring diagram.)

Sorry I don't have any pictures to show this, I hope this is clear.

FWIW on my gs I use the 5-6 connection with a full Remus and a Techlusion.

Cheers YMMV

Steve

[NumbHands]

Thank you, Steve. That helps. I see now these numbers are listed in the wiring diagram in the Haynes manual, but only schematically. I appreciate the socket to ccp conversion.

 

Michael

[Haynes]

Why are you even fitting a CCP? The Australian models are without one as standard.

[NumbHands]

Trying the different settings, Haynes. They do modify the torque and power curves.

 

Michael

[David R]

Today I tried 30-86 or olive green or "Stage 1 US only stock exhaust" on R1100RT I have been running none, but seem to be losing at 4 to 5k rpm.

 

Olive green seems to have lots of torque in the 4,000 to 6,000 rpm range. It will ping a little below 3,000 rpm under load with 93 octane. If going down a hill and I turn the throttle just a little, it backfires through the exhaust.

 

Roll on power is smooth, the decel fuel cut off is more aggressive so the bike almost stalls if I pull the clutch in. It surges at 3000 to 3500 rpm. (60mph) Enough to annoy me.

 

Idle is smooth at 1100 to 1150 rpm with the olive green. With none it idles at 1250.

 

All in all, the bike feels stronger, but the surging is too annoying.

 

Trying them all.

David

[David R]

I tried them all. It seems none is the only way the bike will not surge. I did order the potentiometer. When I stop for red lights, I can smell the heat from the cat. At first I thought I had a leak on the exhaust, but after a few inspections with a flash light, there are no leaks, so its just running too hot. This means the cat is still doing its job.

 

Thanks for the information. I got to play with my bike a little.

 

The Olive green was the best as far as low end torque. It moved the surging up to 3500 rpm which is about 60 mph. I spend most of my time in 55 mph zones, so its the pitts . Other wise it seemed to have the most timing because I could hear it ping if I lugged the motor even with 93 octane. I also got one detonation on hot start up on the right cylinder.

 

With none, it will burn 87 octane and only ping if I force it to as in the wrong gear. I still use 93 octane and the bike runs quite smooth. It Idles faster than with any of the combinations. This and the hot cat is why I ordered the pot. I may end up getting the techlusion, time will tell. I only have 1600 miles on the bike as of today. Its fall here and weather is beginning to suck. Pretty soon it will be in the garage for the winter.

 

Thanks again for the info, I had a blast trying them all.

 

David

[NonComp]

Why are you even fitting a CCP? The Australian models are without one as standard.

I tried without CCP for a while (my Canadian model is similar to the Australian) but found that fuel mileage was not good. My bike had the beige module installed when I got it. I made up a jumper set and tried the green. It would not idle (stalled). Tried the pink combination and it runs much better. Fuel mileages has gone from 34 MPUSG to 43 MPUSG. No discernable surging. No soot on the exhaust pipe. No more back/after firing on decel.

[LPR1100RT]

I have (had) the Yellow CCP. I had some low speed surging issues that after I pulled the CCP have been reduced. The Bike is getting what seems like poor fuel mileage now 35MPG. Do you guys feel pulling the CCP richened the fuel that much?

[NonComp]

It did in my case. I got about the same gas mileage as you are reporting.

[LPR1100RT]

Glen, Any word if the pulling the CCP and the richer mixture has damaged the catalytic convertor.

[Selden]

I recently experimented with the pink plug. It runs fine on the highway, almost completely eliminates decel backfire, and improved gas mileage about 6-10%. BUT... a cold engine has a terrible flat spot just off idle, to the point where the engine will just die unless I give it a handful of throttle. I consider this so dangerous that I'm going to continue running the beige plug around town, but will try to pink plug for the ride to BRR Thursday. This will give me a chance to get a more accurate estimate of gas mileage. If you haven't put in other stuff, the fusebox has room for a spare cat code plug, which I wedge into place with some plastic foam, so I can swap plugs on the road in a few minutes.

[NonComp]

I didn't notice any discoloration or anything else on Cat. I ran a couple of tank fulls, but decided to try other CCP settings after reviewing the mileage. My bike doesn't have (never had) an O2 sensor.

[NonComp]

The pink is a bit cold-blooded. My wife complains about stalling when she rides the bike from cold. I put it on high idle for about 2 minutes, then close the 'choke' and drive away. My normal idle is set to around 1150 rpm. My TPS is set to .375 and I'm using AutoLite XP spark plugs (I think they are irridium).

[T__]

I didn't notice any discoloration or anything else on Cat. I ran a couple of tank fulls, but decided to try other CCP settings after reviewing the mileage. My bike doesn't have (never had) an O2 sensor.

 

Glen, if you don’t have an 02 sensor you don’t have a catalytic converter.. Those two go hand in hand.. The 02 is used to keep the fuel mixture in a range that the cat. can handle..

 

If you have a cat without an 02 sensor someone removed the 02 sensor at one time..

 

 

Twisty

 

[LPR1100RT]

I have an O2 sensor which is still installed would that still tell the computer that its running too rich (and adj things) to protect the cat catalytic convertor when the CCP is pulled?

 

 

 

[T__]

The pink is a bit cold-blooded. My wife complains about stalling when she rides the bike from cold. I put it on high idle for about 2 minutes, then close the 'choke' and drive away. My normal idle is set to around 1150 rpm. My TPS is set to .375 and I'm using AutoLite XP spark plugs (I think they are irridium).

 

Glen, I’m not sure why you would want to use the pink CCP without an 02 sensor.. The pink CCP is for a cat equipped system & turns the fueling control over to the 02 sensor for a lot of the operation.. With no 02 in the system the pink CCP would rely on fixed mapping that was somewhat cat converter friendly & leaner.. No wonder it is cold blooded..

 

Twisty

 

[NonComp]

Thanks, twisty. My 'stock' or original setup was the beige CCP, but I had a lot of afterburn/popping on decel with that. I generally liked running with no CCP, but the fuel mileage fell to about 34 MPG (hwy). So far, the bike seems quite happy running the pink CCP combo and fuel mileage is back up around 43 MPG (hwy).

 

My exhaust system is original has what looks like a cat chamber ahead of the silencer, beneath the bike, but I have no idea what's in it (if anything). There was never an O2 sensor on the bike and no place to mount one (no hole).

[T__]

Glen, (IF) your bike came from the factory without an 02 sensor it should have a idle trim pot (potentiometer) for setting idle & low throttle opening fuel trim..

 

If the bike has an idle trim pot & it is set real rich (or missing) the low speed & idle will be quite rich.. When you install the pink CCP it forces the Motronic to ignore the idle trim pot so maybe that is where your mileage improvement is coming from..

 

Maybe try going back to no CCP or the original CCP & seeing if you can lean the trim pot out a little..

 

Twisty

 

[NonComp]

Twisty, where is the trim pot located?

[T__]

Glen, good question.. The one I worked with was located on the L/H side under the side cover.. If I remember correctly just forward of the rear pannier mount rail attachment..

 

In any case you should have the connector in that area for the Co trim pot..

 

Twisty

 

[NonComp]

I've had the side covers off a few times and I think I remember a couple of connectors in that area, but none that were open or uncommitted. I think there is one open on the right side.

 

I don't remember a trim pot in any context. Having removed the geabox twice, I've loosened up the wiring harness on two occasions. Just can't think of anything that looked like that, either under the side covers or under the tank.

 

My bike is a Canadian model, likely similar to what they get in Australia. We don't have to comply with California emissions. I wonder if the motronic is set up differently?

 

I always seemed to have a fair bit of soot form on the exhaust outlet, until I started fiddling with the CCP and TPS. My fuel mileage was never all that good, usually around 39 MPG. And lots of after-firing on decel. My TPS was .330 before I (recently) bumped it up to .375

[T__]

Glen, no difference in the Motronic.. You either have (had) an 02 sensor or a Co. trim pot..

 

I’m not sure they are all in the same place by year or model but there should be one on your bike if it came without an 02 sensor..

 

I have a partial picture of an early 1100 with a trim pot (check your PM‘s here on this site)..

 

 

Twisty

 

[David R]

Here I go again. I have been thinking........

 

I will probably buy the techlusion that runs the bike in closed loop. When I did all my experimenting, the olive green set up seemed to have the most timing and low end grunt. If I could get rid of the surging and use that "timing map" then I think the bike would run the best.

 

Knowing me I will end up buying the techlusion anyhow, so Twisty what do you think? I might as well buck up for it now instead of later.

 

I wanted the twin instead of a K model for the flat torque curve. I like 2 cylinders, I have had a few 4 bangers (Honda 750 and Suzuki GS 650) and didn't appreciate them as much.

 

If I run the bike in open loop it will Idle too rich and the techlusion will not take away fuel.

 

Just my thoughts.

 

David

DAYM I LOVE THIS THING!

[NonComp]

I like 2 cylinders, I have had a few 4 bangers (Honda 750 and Suzuki GS 650) and didn't appreciate them as much.

Obviously, you've never driven an ST1300

[Selden]

Yellow plug, not beige. My memory for colors is so bad that if we're out shopping and my wife has on a green top, I'll be looking for red and wondering why I can't find her.

 

Letting the engine idle for a minute before taking off reduces the flat spot problem with the pink plug, but it doesn't really go away until the RID temperature is showing 4-5 bars.

[T__]

David, sorry I missed your post here..

 

I have run the Techlusion on a few bikes & find they are really worth the money & effort to install..

 

One thing to keep in mind is the Techlusion is designed to work with the FACTORY CCP.. If you run the original CCP then get the Techlusion unit that interfaces with the 02 sensor & spoofs the 02 signal during fuel add times.. Using a CCP that still allows 02 control will keep the idle fuel/air mixtures at about 14.7:1.. As the Techlusion goes into fuel-add mode at higher throttle openings it will intercept the 02 signal & spoof a signal to keep the Motronic from removing the added fuel..

 

If you want to use a Techlusion & operate open loop all the time (no CCP) then get the basic Techlusion without the 02 interface.. (that is based on the original “Fuel Nanny” design.. That unit has more adjustability for open loop fueling control.. That will probably still leave you with a rich idle (personally that never bothered me though).. If you run open loop (no CCP) you can add the Co. pot to lean out the idle somewhat (or add in a custom made up resistor set up)

 

Also keep in mind that once you richen the fueling control you can probably add a little more base ignition timing advance & that is effective across the entire RPM range..

 

For future readers! – The above is for the 1100 ONLY.. The 1150 uses a different Motronic fueling computer (Ma 2.4) & has rather poor open loop mapping.. On the 1150 the 02 spoof type Techlusion seems to work the best as all the fuel maps in the 1150 (that I tested anyhow) are closed loop type maps as (I think) all 1150’s came with a cat..

 

Twisty

 

[David R]

Snip

 

 

 

 

Twisty

 

I used #30 and #86. It would ping up to 3,000 RPM with 93 octane if I asked too much of it. Surged like crazy at 3500. It seemed to perform well under heavy throttle. That is enough timing, All I need is a little more fuel. The hall effect is already at full advance in the factory slots. I checked it with a timing light. It does look like 3* or 4* more advance. Right now open loop it will burn 87 octane and only ping occasionally. I swear I get better mileage. I have to continue testing to find out.

 

Open loop or closed loop? Idunno http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/default/crazy.gif

[Selden]

Michael, I haven’t located the bag O CCP’s yet but we can get you started on some CCP’s to try..

 

The picture shows the Pink,, Green,, & Brown..

 

You can jumper A to C (that is either Yellow or Beige).. Then jumper A to D as that is the other one (Yellow or Beige).. IE, Yellow is either A to C or A to D,, Beige is either A to C or A to D.. You won’t know what color is what but if you like one over the other it doesn’t really matter..

 

I guess the only one you won’t be able to get is the Blue but you can try A_B_C then A_B_D as one of that combination will be the blue.. (we know the 30 pin & the 86 pin.. We also know the 87 & 87a pins but not sure which is which.. I ran off a blue pin out on my 1150RT & hated it though..

 

 

Twisty

I need some clarification. Twisty's photo shows two small blue relays, but when I looked in my fuse box this afternoon, I see only one. A diagram that Twisty (I think) posted shows 6 relays in that first row, but the picture shows 7. My BMW repair manual shows 6, and the last socket is labeled "not in use". So, what is the second blue relay in the photo? Is this a change between R1100 and R1150, perhaps to support the different braking system?

[T__]

Selden, that is a lighting relay.. I’m not sure what all uses that relay & what ones don’t..

 

Twisty

 

[Selden]

Was the photo from an RTP? At least I'm certain now that I'm not missing anything.

[T__]

Selden, I’m not sure what that photo was.. I believe the 1150RT used that last lighting relay for the fog light control..

 

 

Twisty

 

[123abcXYZ789]

What blows my mind in all of this discussion is that there is no way to find out what all these different CCP combinations actually mean. All we have is a description (from NumbHands scanned paper, which I have been using and is very helpful, along with of course Twisty's excellent wisdom) and empirical descriptions from individuals switching between plugs and describing the differences.

 

Can't we locate the Motronic engineer and find out first hand what these different plug settings really mean? (*wishful thinking*)

 

Can you tell I'm a little frustrated? I've been trying to figure out why my '03 R1150RT runs funky ever since I bought it a few years ago. I now realize that since it is so heavily modified (SJ BMW dual spark heads, Z-Tecknik exhaust and no cat, and a Power Commander, all by the previous original owner) that there may be no way to figure out what is causing what!

 

OK, let me stop ranting and perhaps toss a question out there. I think Twisty mentioned (#525988 - 10/01/09) that the Techlusion box is designed to run (on an 1100) in conjunction with the stock CCP plug.

 

What is the consensus on what my US '03 1150RT should be running? What is the "stock" plug for this bike, how does it translate into the jumper diagram from NumbHands, and given the mods I describe, does anyone have any suggestions on a good plug/jumper setting for me? Anyone else out there with successfully tuning a similarly modded 1150?

 

P.S. my next bike will be kept bone-stock!! Luckily the new 1200RTs seem to run beautifully right out of the box, so perhaps we're past all of this tweaking silliness?

 

 

Thanks,

 

Bart

[NonComp]

I don't have advice on what you should run, given the modifications. I think that the stock plug is the pink one, which is the A_C_D, 30-87-87a combo also known as Stage1, Europe Only, Stock Exhaust--?

 

Bad news on the 1200RT. My riding buddy has an 07, bone stock. He says it surges like crazy. So far, no joy on finding a cure.

[Peter Parts]

Fascinating thread, grateful for the information.

 

Where is the "limp home" mode or how do you access it in the Motronic 2.4? What states of erroneousness calls it up? Is there a limp-home mode? What does it do to AFR and spark timing?

 

And specifically, if your AIT says it is -25C in your driveway, will the ECU decide you are kind of asking for the limp-home mode?

 

Thanks.

[David R]

After all my screwing around, I bought the techlusion 1033. Still tweaking it, but it sure finds more power from the bike. (like I need it)

 

Its a 2000 R1100RT with 105,000 miles on it. Valves, TBs, and TP sensor are all tweaked to my best ability. Hall sensor is at full advance.

 

The accelerator pump is the best feature. Now this thing pulls like a tractor. I am still tweaking it. Recommended settings were WAY too rich for my bike. It DOES cure the surging with just a little fuel added. If I add too much, the bike becomes "Herkity Jerkity" I can feel the extra fuel turning on and off. It still runs in closed loop with this model.

 

I talked to Matt at techlusion for a long time and he answered all my questions. This is what I learned:

 

The first pot called the green pot always adds fuel from off idle up to 4500 RPM. Set it to your personal liking. I find just one turning it one hour or less is plenty. Recommended setting is 2:30 in clock position. I am before 2:00, 1:00 is zero fuel added.

 

The next one yellow is for the accelerator pump. It really adds roll on power, but too much and you know it. The bike becomes less controllable. Recommended setting is 3:30, again 2:00 is enough for me. Set at 4:00 If I turn the throttle fast, the bike takes right off. If I turn it back a little (not to idle) I can feel it shut off with almost a jerk in the loss of power.

 

Next is the red pot or high speed jet. The rest stop working over 4500 RPM and this one takes over. With it set at 3:00 (4:30 recommended setting) you can feel it kick in as the tach goes past 4500 what ever gear you are in. Between that and the accelerator pump, my front wheel will just skip along under hard acceleration in first gear. It seems to be "how fast does your wallet want to go"

 

The last one is still a bit of a mystery for me. Its the Cruise pot. Matt told me it only adds fuel when the bike is in closed loop along with the first green pot. If I turn this one even near the recommended setting of 8:30 the throttle feels real vague in the 2500 to 4000 rpm range. This is the one and the first green pot are supposed to cure the surge.

 

Matt also told me too much fuel can cause a surge too.

 

When I installed the unit, I synced the TBs and set the Idle a little low thinking the added fuel would speed it up. I was wrong, it idles at 1100 for a short while then the motronic sees its too rich and backs off the fuel and it goes to 900 which is too slow. Touch the throttle and it speeds back up for a few seconds. Mat explained this to me. Its not a problem, I just have to put the BBS back to 1.5 turns instead of 1.0. This involves taking one side of the tupper ware off again and re sync, so I am not going to do it today, going riding....

 

He also told me if I want it to be like the 1031 model, just unhook the 02 sensor. The cruise pot will no longer be functional because it will not run in closed loop. This would also stop the hi/low idle thing.

 

I have not tried the different cat codes with the teclusion installed, but want to because one setting had a lot more timing. I need to figure out this unit a little more first.

 

For now all settings at 2:00 or less seems to be a good compromise with no surging and some added power. With it at recommended factory settings my fuel mileage goes south (40mpg) and the bike is way too rich upon cold start up.

 

If I were to do some sport riding, I would turn the accelerator pump up to 3:00 or so.

 

I have not pulled the plugs yet, but I have a 2 to 300 mile ride planned for today. I'll pull them after that and take a peek.

 

Yeah, It was worth $179.00 I paid for it.

 

Hope I didn't bore you

David

[Peter Parts]

Yes, David R, I also found the Techlusion is great tool, esp. for bringing up torque at lower rpms on an R1100S. But when I drilled out the tiny baffle hole in the middle of my front exhaust crossover pipe in my R1100S, THAT brought up the same range and no longer got the same benefit from having the Techlusion (see my write-up at URL below).

 

My impression is that those quite nice folks at Techlusion rather prefer the non-O2 model (or as you've pointed out, just disconnecting the sensor).

 

Here's how to think about it: the cat converter is destroyed by too much richness and closed-loop running is the only way to keep lean enough. So if you (still) have a cat converter, keep using the O2 sensor. Having said that, I bet few sport bikes have functional cat converters after a few years of use. Further, given the restrictions on when a Motronic 2.4 goes into closed-loop mode, sportier models and sportier riding means very little time is spent closed-loop. And so cat converter life is short.

 

BTW, the discussion of what cat code plug to use with a Techlusion seems odd to me. The color-choice brings about whole big worlds of differing maps, spark timing, etc. The Techlusion just "spices" the color choice. So CCP is a major choice and Techlusion the fine-tuning.

 

Manufacturers spend great fortunes tuning ECUs for each engine, presence of cat converter, and continent octane styles. You can't just play random games with the CCPs and hope the "Serbian. R1375ST, high-octane, no-cat converter" color will hit the mark with your machine. Of course, many of us stuggle to find what can you do to adjust AFR and timing???

 

 

[David R]

Peter, I agree with you.

 

My bike has what I would call headers. 2 into one, both pipes appear to be the same length with no crossover.

 

As far as the engineering, They spent a LOT more time and money than I can. But I think they missed the mark because my bike surges. As far as the cat, on my bike it still works. I can tell because it gets hot and I can smell it.

 

If it ever plugs, it will be gutted.

 

Matt also told me they recommend to stay with the stock CCP. Mine is yellow. From the testing I did before, I liked two other choices, but with both surging was worse. This just means I get to play a little more trying all the combinations. Yes the fuel controller should add some "spice" to every cat code.

 

Each bike has its own personality. So does the rider. I want to tweak mine to my driving style.

 

David

[T__]

The last one is still a bit of a mystery for me. Its the Cruise pot. Matt told me it only adds fuel when the bike is in closed loop along with the first green pot. If I turn this one even near the recommended setting of 8:30 the throttle feels real vague in the 2500 to 4000 rpm range. This is the one and the first green pot are supposed to cure the surge.

 

 

When I installed the unit, I synced the TBs and set the Idle a little low thinking the added fuel would speed it up. I was wrong, it idles at 1100 for a short while then the motronic sees its too rich and backs off the fuel and it goes to 900 which is too slow. Touch the throttle and it speeds back up for a few seconds.

 

David, you have to be careful about all the info given on the Techlusion.. It does work good but not just exactly as they have you believe..

 

The cruise pot basically adjusts when the Techlusion spoofs the 02 sensor input.. There are points when the 02 sensor output must be blocked or the output filtered or your fueling computer will just remove any extra fuel you have added.. Basically when the cruise pot is active the 02 sensor output is intercepted by the Techlusion & the Techlusion is supplying false 02 data to your fueling computer.. The Techlusion is pretty good at spoofing the 02 as it actually retains/spoofs the 02 cross counts so the fueling computer doesn’t just ignore it..

 

After running the Techlusion type devices for years I have found the best way to adjust the red pot is to do top speed runs (if set correctly you can gain a few more MPH top end) or if you don’t feel comfortable doing top speed just do 85-120 mph top gear roll on’s & time the gain.. Once you get to 100% fuel injector on time no matter what it (the Techlusion) dose you can’t gain anymore unless you find a way to up the system fuel pressure..

 

On the idle thing.. The Techlusion has no control at idle so your system goes back into closed loop no fuel add at idle.. That basically protects the cat.. If you get the Techlusion too far out of recommended setting range your ridability will become abrupt at low throttle openings as it will try to add fuel during the dropped throttle fuel shut off periods & that makes smooth throttle control very difficult..

 

Twisty

 

[Peter Parts]

 

David...snip The Techlusion is pretty good at spoofing the 02 as it actually retains/spoofs the 02 cross counts so the fueling computer doesn’t just ignore it..

 

snip

On the idle thing.. The Techlusion has no control at idle so your system goes back into closed loop no fuel add at idle.. That basically protects the cat.. If you get the Techlusion too far out of recommended setting range your ridability will become abrupt at low throttle openings as it will try to add fuel during the dropped throttle fuel shut off periods & that makes smooth throttle control very difficult..

 

Twisty

 

Thanks for helpful information.

 

What does "cross counts" mean?

 

About idle, I thought (at least for the 2.4 ECU) it is never in closed-loop at or near idle or near WOT. And it is also always on the matrix whenever you move the throttle.

 

What is the way it handles the spoofing of the O2 sensor - does it subtract a constant voltage like .05 volts or divide the voltage to get a proportional decrement or what?

 

When the O2 sensor is disconnected (with or without a Techlusion installed), does the ECU simply stay on the map all the time?

 

Thanks.

[Boffin]

The narrow band 02 sensor used on oilheads does not give a constant proportional voltage in normal use, though an output ov about 0.5volts is equal to stochiometric burn. What happens is that the reading starts off either lean or rich, lets go with lean. The 02 sensor shows a lean burn, the ECU then adds fuel until the 02 shows rich, at which point the ECU removes fuel until the 02 shows lean, and so on. This gives an output that switches back and forth about 0.5volts, the rate this happens is called 'cross-counts' and this information is used to sense the correct operation of the 02.

The best way to diagnose an 02 failure is to 'scope the output to see the voltage swings in action. When an 02 fails, it tends to stay in one condition or get very lazy in its changes, and so is easy to spot.

 

BTW, apart from bosh at least one other manufacturer makes a plug-in 02 sensor for the oilhead.

 

Andy