Justice Arkansas Style

[Rinkydink]

At my local BMW/Ducati/Triumph shop Monday 3 thieves decide @ 4 am to back their pickup through the front doors and smash and grab whatever they could steal.

It just so happens the head BMW mechanic was staying overnight and just happened to have a shotgun handy. Two thieves drove away leaving their "true friend" to fend for himself and what he got was two shots to the upper body and is in critical condition. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. Only damage was of course the doors and a new LT knocked over which broke the mirror.

The thieves got away with nothing and will probably think twice before doing this again. The only bad part is the guy in the hospital can't talk and turn his buddies in. This kind of thing should happen more often in my eyes...Ya'll come back now ya hear?

[Lawman]

I'm sorry the mirror was broken...

[russell_bynum]

I'm sorry the mirror was broken...

 

[baggerchris]

+1!

[Matts_12GS]

I think we should get a collection going for the mechanic's soon to come legal expenses

 

 

 

and the mirror

 

 

and replacement shotgun shells

[stubble!]

Poor LT.

[Scribner]

Got a case of shells to donate!!

[Husker Red]

At my local BMW/Ducati/Triumph shop Monday 3 thieves decide @ 4 am to back their pickup through the front doors and smash and grab whatever they could steal.

It just so happens the head BMW mechanic was staying overnight and just happened to have a shotgun handy. Two thieves drove away leaving their "true friend" to fend for himself and what he got was two shots to the upper body and is in critical condition. Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. Only damage was of course the doors and a new LT knocked over which broke the mirror.

The thieves got away with nothing and will probably think twice before doing this again. The only bad part is the guy in the hospital can't talk and turn his buddies in. This kind of thing should happen more often in my eyes...Ya'll come back now ya hear?

 

That's weird, I heard it this way:

 

Two local honor students were driving home from a late night of volunteering at the shelter when they came across a friend of theirs who was having trouble with the final drive of his BMW motorcycle. They put the bike in the back of their pickup and dropped it off at the BMW dealership. When they were backing out of the lot, the dangerously reflective tint on the front doors of the establishment temporarily confused the driver and he accidentally backed into the doors. The responsible driver then stepped into the shop to asses the damage before calling the authorities. When he stepped inside an enraged and drunken mechanic blasted him twice with a shotgun. His friends drove off in terror for their lives and immediately called 911. The mechanic was sleeping off a binge at the dealership because his wife had thown him out of the house after he struck her and threatened her with a shotgun. Charges are pending.

 

Actually, I like your version of the story just fine, but I'm sure there will be a completely different version told by the "victims."

[Rinkydink]

Hopefully he won't need any legal expenses, but these days you never know. This man is the nicest individual you will ever meet until obviously you jeopardize his life or well being. I'll keep you posted.

[ghaverkamp]

Well, they appear to have arrested one of the guys. Probably won't take long to get the 3rd.

 

I imagine Mr. Ceasaer's fate largely depends on the nature of the injuries to guy in the hospital. Of course, his buddies are really hoping he pulls through.

[Jerry Johnston]

Sounds like the lawyer's version to me.

[Polo]

Judging from Mr. Cleveland's photo how can you but conclude that the poor man has been a victim of society all his life...

 

The outrage!

[Lawman]

I imagine Mr. Ceasaer's fate largely depends on the nature of the injuries to guy in the hospital.

 

Greg,

I hope you are wrong..Care to elaborate?..We already know he was shot..Do you think the extent of his injuries is a factor?

[Twisties]

I imagine Mr. Ceasaer's fate largely depends on the nature of the injuries to guy in the hospital.

 

Greg,

I hope you are wrong..Care to elaborate?..We already know he was shot..Do you think the extent of his injuries is a factor?

 

One of her employees, Julius Ceasaer, stays at the store fulltime. As he slept on the couch early Tuesday morning, a truck backed into the store.

 

"He's prepared, he's hoping he'd never have to do anything," Willbanks says.

 

He fought back against three burglars, shooting one of them. That suspect ran across the street and collapsed before an ambulance took him to the hospital.

 

Mr. Ceasaer is the shooter. The various sources give little information on the details of the threat to Mr. Ceasaer and the circumstances of the shooting. There has also been no information given about AR law. However, in most States use of deadly force is justified only in self-defense, and only in case of a fairly severe degree of threat, for instance believing you are about to be killed. Consequently if the robber in the hospital dies these issues could lead to murder charges, whereas if he lives only lesser charges could be considered.

 

All that said, we simply don't have information here to know if such an issue is likely or not. We don't know if the robbers were armed, coming at him, fleeing, or if he came out of a back room at them. Consider if you will two possible hypothetical cases:

 

1. Caesear was sleeping in the room the robbers drove into, and was seen by the robbers who had guns, and the robbers seemed to be about to shoot him.

 

2. Caesear was sleeping in a back room, had a cell phone with which he could have dialed 911, had an exit through which he could have left unobserved, and the robbers had no idea he was even there until he snuck out in the dark, unobserved, and fired upon them by surprise, and without first calling 911.

 

In case 1 presumably Caesaer would either never be charged, or quickly acquitted. In case 2, assuming the evidence was solid, in most states there would be serious question of a conviction for murder in the event that the robber dies.

 

 

[David]

Arkansas code on the castle doctrine and self-defense, which are two separate issues:

 

5-2-608. Use of physical force in defense of premises.

(a) A person in lawful possession or control of premises or a vehicle is justified in using nondeadly physical force upon another person when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes the use of nondeadly physical force is necessary to prevent or terminate the commission or attempted commission of a criminal trespass by the other person in or upon the premises or vehicle.

(b) A person may use deadly physical force under the circumstances set forth in subsection (a) of this section if:

(1) Use of deadly physical force is authorized by § 5-2-607; or

(2) The person reasonably believes the use of deadly physical force is necessary to prevent the commission of arson or burglary by a trespasser.

History. Acts 1975, No. 280, § 508; A.S.A. 1947, § 41-508.

 

5-2-607. Use of deadly physical force in defense of a person.

(a) A person is justified in using deadly physical force upon another person if the person reasonably believes that the other person is:

(1) Committing or about to commit a felony involving force or violence;

(2) Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force; or

(3) (A) Imminently endangering the person's life or imminently about to victimize the person as described in § 9-15-103 from the continuation of a pattern of domestic abuse.

(B) As used in this section, “domestic abuse” means the same as defined in § 9-15-103.

(b) A person may not use deadly physical force in self-defense if he or she knows that he or she can avoid the necessity of using deadly physical force with complete safety:

(1) (A) By retreating.

(B) However, a person is not required to retreat if the person is:

(i) In the person's dwelling or on the curtilage surrounding the person's dwelling and was not the original aggressor; or

(ii) A law enforcement officer or a person assisting at the direction of a law enforcement officer; or

(2) By surrendering possession of property to a person claiming a lawful right to possession of the property.

© As used in this section, “curtilage” means the land adjoining a dwelling that is convenient for family purposes and habitually used for family purposes, but not necessarily enclosed, and includes an outbuilding that is directly and intimately connected with the dwelling and in close proximity to the dwelling.

History. Acts 1975, No. 280, § 507; A.S.A. 1947, § 41-507; Acts 1997, No. 1257, § 1; 2007, No. 111, § 1.

 

What will be interesting is how they interpret "the person's dwelling," since it wasn't a home and he didn't own it.

[Twisties]

David, so far there has been no indication that Ceasaer was threatened. If not, I read it this way:

 

5-2-608... (a) A person in lawful possession or control of premises...

 

(b) A person may use deadly physical force under the circumstances set forth in subsection (a) of this section if:...

 

The person reasonably believes the use of deadly physical force is necessary to prevent the commission of arson or burglary by a trespasser.

 

So, unless he was acting in self defense, this is going to come down to this: Did Ceasear reasonably believe that deadly physical force was necessary to stop them?

 

"Necessary" implies that he had to have had no other viable alternatives. To evaluate that you have to consider his options. These would have included perhaps: Calling 911, shouting a warning, brandishing, or other actions. We just don't know enough about the circumstances to say if any of those were available or appropriate.

 

[Dave McReynolds]

Just a SWAG on my part, but I don't think Mr. Ceasaer will ever see the inside of a courtroom on this one, other than maybe to testify against one of the perps.

[Lawman]

Only at bmwsporttouring.com and possibly the A.C.L.U.would there be argument presented suggesting one should be criminally filed on for the shooting of a burglar who made entry by driving his vehicle, in the middle of the night, into the building one was sleeping in and attempting to steal property..

[David]

Yeah, I'm with you there, Billy. Not only would driving a truck into a building imply some sort of danger, but he was also outnumbered. I'd have shot, too.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Bang, bang!!! "Halt or I'll fire." Again!

[Twisties]

Only at bmwsporttouring.com and possibly southern law enforcement would there be argument presented suggesting one should completely ignore the law for a shooting

 

Fixed it for ya.

 

I'd put the little grin guy, but frankly I'm not pleased. I just tried to answer your question neutrally, and without advocating any position on the matter.

 

Your attack on ACLU is totally unwarranted, as they would not have a care to charging the shooter, and in so far as I am concerned quite offensive.

 

 

[brennaman]

Only at bmwsporttouring.com and possibly southern law enforcement would there be argument presented suggesting one should completely ignore the law for a shooting

 

Fixed it for ya.

 

I'd put the little grin guy, but frankly I'm not pleased. I just tried to answer your question neutrally, and without advocating any position on the matter.

 

Your attack on ACLU is totally unwarranted, as they would not have a care to charging the shooter, and in so far as I am concerned quite offensive.

 

 

I would have to say, your post is much more offesive.

[Satguy]

Good for Julius.... I attended BMW training with Julius while working at a BMW dealership. He seemed like a decent guy from what I remember of him, and not a gun toting madman. I don't have any pix of Julius, but here is the front of WyoTech in Florida where the training is held. BMW has a training facility for factory training at Wyotech in addition to the regular student training.

 

[KDeline]

Hopefully he won't need any legal expenses, but these days you never know.

 

Come on, of course we know, this is AMERICA. This man will be in court and then there will be a civil suit.

[Rinkydink]

Let me just say not having talked to anyone @ BMWCLR yet, if someone is breaking into your residence (or where you stays) at 4 am (read dark as sh** outside) and you confront them hiding in the bushes NOT knowing whether they have a weapon or not, what would you do? My first instinct is not to offer them a demo ride on the new K1300. This is not the first time the shop has been targeted by the way.

 

In this day and age yes the chance of litigation is always there but we can just hope common sense prevails.

[russell_bynum]

Bang, bang!!! "Halt or I'll fire." Again!

 

[Skywagon]

The shop owners should get the truck to pay for the door!! The perps should be sentenced to a life of tire changing duty, FD rebuilds, and oil changes as public service.

 

The shooter most likely will need to collect some funds for the civil suit coming his way... If it happens, we should try to get all BMW owners to contribute $5.

 

If the DA does decide to prosecute, good freaking luck getting anyone in the South to convict someone for shooting at someone who is a thief and used a deadly weapon (moving vehicle) to commit the crime....

 

Guess they shouldn't have taken a pickup truck to a gun fight...

[ghaverkamp]

I imagine Mr. Ceasaer's fate largely depends on the nature of the injuries to guy in the hospital.

 

Greg,

I hope you are wrong..Care to elaborate?..We already know he was shot..Do you think the extent of his injuries is a factor?

 

Not the extent of his injuries. His buddies need to be worried about that.

 

I was largely considering things like in what part of his body was he shot, where was he located when he was shot, and how many times was he shot.

 

Based on a (very) little searching, Arkansas doesn't have a Castle Doctrine law, which means he has to comply with the self-defense law quoted above. And he may very well. I just foolishly thought I'd once again inject the notion that folks might stop to consider that there are many facts involved, and they don't know 'em all.

 

Taking the Arkansas law as quoted above, if the truck had stopped (and it presumably had, since the other guys jumped out), if the injured party was fleeing the guy with the gun and not engaging him, or any number of other actions would make the argument for self-defense -- as opposed to adrenalized vengeance -- a bit more wobbly.