R1200RT Vs. K1300GT

[Rphoto]

My wife and I have been considering replacing our 1999 R1100RT with something newer and a bit more updated. I also want to make the riding experience as comfortable as possible as she is plagued with a bad back and hip problem. The prospects of an adjustable suspension and heated seat appeal to her. Today we sat one after the other on a new R1200RT and a new K1300GT. We were surprised that the new RT seemed to have less passenger seat room than our current one. She was jammed tighter against me, which is not a good thing because I am rather wide of hip and it splays her legs. She was shocked with how comparatively roomy the GT was. She also liked the shape of the GT pillion which has a bit of a lip to hold the rider in place (probably necessary when all that hp is unleashed).

Any thoughts regarding the difference between the bikes -- especially as relates comfort and riding position?

 

Rob McClure

[moshe_levy]

Well, at the end, only one opinion matters, and it sounds as though she was pretty clear about her preferences...

 

-MKL

[marcopolo]

Did the same thing a few years back and my wife preferred the RT. Go figure. Don't know if there was a large (49L) topcase on either bike, but it certainly adds to the passenger's comfort/feeling of security.

[Rphoto]

Thanks for your thoughts. I personally prefer the GT because it is fast. I'd have to get rid of my HD Street Rod to get it and need to have a fast bike. The RT does have its charms, though.

 

Rob M.

[rglassma]

Well, if her comfort is all that matters, you have your answer. But, something tells me that if your back and knees hurt after 100 miles from the GT, things will not be all rosey either.

 

My choice, after riding both bikes for an extended period of the time is the RT.. I couldn't stand the GT seat. The pegs are much too high (even for my 30" inseam) and the riding position wasn't anywhere near as comfortable as the RT.

 

It is faster though but long distance comfort is more a priority. The RT wins hands down !!

[John Bentall]

I spoke to a pillion who had had progressed from an RT to a GT perch. She said that the GT accelerated so much faster on full throttle that the rider either had to warn her to brace herself or she had to watch the road constantly to anticipate the overtake, but the resulting adrenaline rush was OK with her.

There is no disputing the fact that the GT is much faster and more fun for the rider - but are average speeds really that much higher if it is driven with the same degree of smoothness and consideration for the passenger?

 

[jakfrost]

Why is it the possibility of a test ride always seems so remote that it doesn't even come up as an option in the conversation...even when considering a $20,000.00 + purchase.

 

Wouldn't that put some hard facts in an otherwise highly subjective equation...??

 

But we seem to accept the fact that in our world this is simply so remote as to not even warrant discussion.

 

Funny, eh?

 

Jim

[Rphoto]

Both dealers I have shopped at have offered test rides but the implication is that it is a special privilege and one better be ready to buy. Plus in my experience test rides don't tell the whole story because they just are not long enough. So what better way to find out the pros and cons of the bikes that ask people who own them (and in some case have owned both).

[outpost22]

Is there a bike rental business in your area with Beemers? Just a thought.

 

We have a local KTM dealer that rents 990 Adventures among others.

 

You never know until you look. Maybe a 1/2 day on each bike would decide it for you.

[smiller]

Why is it the possibility of a test ride always seems so remote that it doesn't even come up as an option in the conversation...even when considering a $20,000.00 + purchase.

 

Wouldn't that put some hard facts in an otherwise highly subjective equation...??

 

But we seem to accept the fact that in our world this is simply so remote as to not even warrant discussion.

I have never bought a motorcycle without a test ride and I never will. If a dealer won't discuss a test ride I won't discuss a purchase.

[rglassma]

Both dealers I have shopped at have offered test rides but the implication is that it is a special privilege and one better be ready to buy. Plus in my experience test rides don't tell the whole story because they just are not long enough. So what better way to find out the pros and cons of the bikes that ask people who own them (and in some case have owned both).

 

Sounds like you need to find another dealer. Test driving one should be a no brainer at any dealer. No one tells me how to spend my money.. If they won't commit to a test ride, I won't even talk to them. They can go fly a kite as far as i'm concerned.

[StuGotz]

Why is it the possibility of a test ride always seems so remote that it doesn't even come up as an option in the conversation...even when considering a $20,000.00 + purchase.

 

Wouldn't that put some hard facts in an otherwise highly subjective equation...??

 

But we seem to accept the fact that in our world this is simply so remote as to not even warrant discussion.

I have never bought a motorcycle without a test ride and I never will. If a dealer won't discuss a test ride I won't discuss a purchase.

 

And better yet, an EXTENDED test ride. If your dealer knows you will buy, then why not? ( ya better be serious )

 

Sounds like a fun thing for you and your pillion.

 

Go for it.

 

MB>

[Lmar]

Poster: rglassma

Subject: Re: R1200RT Vs. K1300GT

 

Originally Posted By: Rob McClure

Both dealers I have shopped at have offered test rides but the implication is that it is a special privilege and one better be ready to buy. Plus in my experience test rides don't tell the whole story because they just are not long enough. So what better way to find out the pros and cons of the bikes that ask people who own them (and in some case have owned both).

 

 

Sounds like you need to find another dealer. Test driving one should be a no brainer at any dealer. No one tells me how to spend my money.. If they won't commit to a test ride, I won't even talk to them. They can go fly a kite as far as i'm concerned.

 

+1

[jaytee]

Man, I don't know what kind of dealers you guys have, but here in SoCal if you want a test ride you better be in the market for a Harley or a BMW because there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of getting a test ride by another dealer before you buy.

 

I completely agree with the OP. I just spent an extended test ride on a K1300S at my local dealer's demo day and I guarantee you that wasn't enough experience to make a truly informed decision. I, too, would turn to a (supposedly) helpful community of owners to get some real-world feedback on living with these bikes for extended periods of time.

 

JT

 

 

[Funride]

Both of my RT purchases, two different dealers, they let me take the bike out for as long as I wanted. On the first, I rode home, took the "boss" out for a spin just to see if she was comfy with it.

 

I always tell the salesman "if I ride it I am going to buy it" and they just give me the keys, smile, and say have fun.....

 

[Lets_Play_Two]

My wife and I have been considering replacing our 1999 R1100RT with something newer and a bit more updated. I also want to make the riding experience as comfortable as possible as she is plagued with a bad back and hip problem. The prospects of an adjustable suspension and heated seat appeal to her. Today we sat one after the other on a new R1200RT and a new K1300GT. We were surprised that the new RT seemed to have less passenger seat room than our current one. She was jammed tighter against me, which is not a good thing because I am rather wide of hip and it splays her legs. She was shocked with how comparatively roomy the GT was. She also liked the shape of the GT pillion which has a bit of a lip to hold the rider in place (probably necessary when all that hp is unleashed).

Any thoughts regarding the difference between the bikes -- especially as relates comfort and riding position?

 

Rob McClure

 

I went from an 1150RT to a 1200GT. I liked the better speed and the feel (feel is MY personal opinion)of the GT. In addition my soon to be wife liked the ride on the back of the GT over a 1200RT which we also test rode...more room, she is 5'10". Of course, one month after we got the GT she decided it would be roomier yet on her own motorcycle!

[SWB]

I didn't check the specs, but I've compared the two side by side, and others have commented, that the wheel base of the GT is longer than the RT, thus explaining why the pillion would have more room.

 

What about the LT? I hear that has more room also, i.e. and better comfort for 2-up riding.

[JustJean]

We have a demo K1300GT at SMS (Shreveport, La.)

[Rphoto]

I didn't check the specs, but I've compared the two side by side, and others have commented, that the wheel base of the GT is longer than the RT, thus explaining why the pillion would have more room.

 

What about the LT? I hear that has more room also, i.e. and better comfort for 2-up riding.

 

My wife doesn't like the riding position because it seats her higher than me. She doesn't like seeing what is coming (or the speedometer). I think it is just too big for the type of riding I do -- just as soon buy a convertible sportscar as to wheel around that package.

[jasonTDI]

Come to WI. ALL 3 dealer allow extended rides.

 

I'd NEVER buy one without a few hours in the saddle.

 

And earlier someone asked if the bike was that much faster is driven smoothly. YES!!!!!!!!!!! SERIOUSLY so. The roll on in 6th at 50 will have you over 100 passing 3 cars. I'd love to own one but the ticket generating power of that big is immense. It's happiest above 80mph. But.....it does NOT turn like an R bike.

[jasonTDI]

All I can say about these "dealers" are they are "a**hats" if they won't let you ride the bikes. See-ya! I'll go elsewhere. I have had 17 BMW cars in 15 years,4 bikes. (none of which were in the last 6 yrs, got frugal....) and NEVER bought one from a dealer that treated me like crap. Who's paying for it? That's what I don't get. Treat me like a POS and I'm gone with my money.

[smiller]

It's happiest above 80mph

True dat, for better or for worse. And yes, your average speeds WILL be higher.

[CoarsegoldKid]

Man, I don't know what kind of dealers you guys have, but here in SoCal if you want a test ride you better be in the market for a Harley or a BMW because there isn't a snowball's chance in hell of getting a test ride by another dealer before you buy.

 

Here in Central Cal we have two dealers about 100 miles apart. Take all the time you want in a test ride. I did about an hour with Juanita on back. She voted. I wrote the check.

 

I have 31 inseam and the RT will low seat cramped the knees too much. IF you get a test ride ask for time with both low and normal seat. Either bike is heavy and tall. SOmething to think about.

[Robert Wood]

 

Either bike is heavy and tall. SOmething to think about.

 

I found the R1200RT to be tall and the K1200GT to be heavy (and fast...) - RT handles better though.

 

Depends what sort of bike you like - if you always ride above 80mph, and don't ride in the mountains a lot, go the GT, for everything else, IMHO, the RT has a nicer character about it - there is something about the boxer twin that is more enjoyable to me than a typical inline four.

[John in VA]

It's happiest above 80mph

True dat, for better or for worse. And yes, your average speeds WILL be higher.

 

I rode a K13GT once on a 20-minute test ride and really liked it -- although not as much as my R12RT for handling and wind protection.

 

I thought I wouldn't need a longer test, but there's at least one feature I hadn't noticed: There's an interesting comparo test this month in Cycle World of the K1300GT and Concours 14. In the article, CW points out that the KGT motor is whizzing at 5000 rpm at 80 mph in top gear. I don't remember what rpm my RT is turning at 80, but I don't think it's 5000 rpm. Maybe the GT motor is very smooth at 5000 rpm, but that seems pretty nervous for a sport-"tourer".

[Motors]

You may not like the snatchy throttle on the GT.

[smiller]

I thought I wouldn't need a longer test, but there's at least one feature I hadn't noticed: There's an interesting comparo test this month in Cycle World of the K1300GT and Concours 14. In the article, CW points out that the KGT motor is whizzing at 5000 rpm at 80 mph in top gear. I don't remember what rpm my RT is turning at 80, but I don't think it's 5000 rpm. Maybe the GT motor is very smooth at 5000 rpm, but that seems pretty nervous for a sport-"tourer".

From my recollection the new K bikes do run a few hundred rpm higher than the R bikes in top gear but given the lack of vibration it really isn't any kind of issue at all. In fact the new K's are so smooth that you might not even notice that you are not in sixth but in fifth or even fourth gear without looking at the RID or tach. Given that they are night-and-day smoother than the R bikes at any speed I don't see much concern in that they may be running a few more rpm.

[Firefight911]

You may not like the snatchy throttle on the GT.

 

 

Huh? No snatchy throttle here.

[Firefight911]

In fact the new K's are so smooth that you might not even notice that you are not in sixth but in fifth or even fourth gear without looking at the RID or tach. Given that they are night-and-day smoother than the R bikes at any speed I don't see much concern in that they may be running a few more rpm.

 

Yep, it happened this morning on my way in to work. 4th gear on the freeway and she was just purring along. Snicked her into 6th and just as smooth, quiet, and fun.

[smiller]

You may not like the snatchy throttle on the GT.

That's called 'throttle response', and it does catch some BMW owners unaware.

 

There were some fueling issues on the early bikes but those have all been corrected for the most part by warranty updates, and the newer bikes already incorporate the changes so not much of an issue anymore.

[stubble!]

You may not like the snatchy throttle on the GT.

That's called 'throttle response', and it does catch some BMW owners unaware.

Thanks Seth

 

On the RPM question, the engines have such totally different characters it's really a non-issue. 5k on a boxer is spinning up a bit, and you feel it. 5k on the four is nothing, smooth as silk and almost lugging it by comparison.

[Funride]

To me it is more character issue.

 

This is my second Boxer and they kind of grew on me.

 

I have had In-Line Fours before and they are smooth, fast, etc.

 

The RT has a certain character that I like.

 

 

[Rphoto]

Here's how I compared the ergonomics. Scroll down.

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=497880

 

 

Thanks Tom. Your overlays are awesome. :Looks like they are pretty close in ergos.

[jjsrt]

I rode an 08 gt last weekend, plenty of speed. I was surprised at the wind protection. The only problems were the shorter wind screen( I would replace with a Cee Bailey)and the shifter linkage was too short for me. I think that could be adjusted or replaced with a wider or after market pedal. but still I like the RT for the comfort. I'm on my third. The boxer is my choice for the longer ride comfort wise and a larger gas tank. regards,

Jeffrey J.

[mistercindy]

Here's how I compared the ergonomics. Scroll down.

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=497880

Great comparison! Well done.

[Lawman]

Here's how I compared the ergonomics. Scroll down.

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=497880

Great comparison! Well done.

 

cool....

[swmckinley]

I have had both. 1100, 1150 & 1200 RT's and a 2004 GT and now the 2008- 1200 GT.

The 2008 K1200GT is the finest touring bike I have ever ridden. I routinely do 800 - 1000 mile days. The power delivery alone makes it the choice over the RT. Both have the same basic cruising amenities such as cruise control, heatd seats etc. As far as seats go all BMW models that I have owned need seat replacement. Russell Day Long fits the bill there. Then there is the service aspect, no 6,000 mile valve checks, just slip some tires on her and change the oil.

I never really considered the RT as a good two up machine, just not enough power. YRMV.

 

Oh not to mention that the K has mirrors that ACTUALLY work.

[Brian R-M]

I have a K1300GT which replaced an R1200RT (written off before it's time by an Audi).

 

The simplest way I can think to answer the question is that if the K was, for example, stolen, there's absolutely no doubt I'd replace it with another K.

 

Why? The power, the smoothness, the handling. My partner really appreciates the large topbox as it makes her feel more secure = relaxed on pillion.

 

The only very minor downside is that I could make 3 days commuting on one tank of fuel on the R, but can't squeeze that from the K - it says range about 90 miles at the start of the 3rd day and that isn't enough for my round trip. On the other hand, to manage 3 days on the R I had to be very gentle with the throttle and now I don't have that self imposed restriction :-) .

[Rphoto]

I have a K1300GT which replaced an R1200RT (written off before it's time by an Audi).

 

The simplest way I can think to answer the question is that if the K was, for example, stolen, there's absolutely no doubt I'd replace it with another K.

 

Why? The power, the smoothness, the handling. My partner really appreciates the large topbox as it makes her feel more secure = relaxed on pillion.

The only very minor downside is that I could make 3 days commuting on one tank of fuel on the R, but can't squeeze that from the K - it says range about 90 miles at the start of the 3rd day and that isn't enough for my round trip. On the other hand, to manage 3 days on the R I had to be very gentle with the throttle and now I don't have that self imposed restriction :-) .

 

Did she also ride on the R1200RT? Now does she compare the comfort?

 

We have a test ride planned on Saturday on the dealers 3,000 mile K1300GT. He has no top boxes in stock to use for the test. We definitely will buy one and was disppointed we could not test it with one. Calls to two other dealers turned up the same results -- no top boxes in stock to use with their demo bikes. We are a little concerned about making such a major purchase decision without testing the case. Any ideas?

 

Thanks!

 

Rob M.

 

 

 

 

 

[swmckinley]

Yes, ask that any rider in your area that has a top box meet you at the dealer in question. Borrow it and ride to breakfast with your new friend and buy he/she breakfast. If you were in Texas I would be more than willing to help out, Ohio is kind of a stretch........ but i have been known to do crazier things.

[Firefight911]

Yes, ask that any rider in your area that has a top box meet you at the dealer in question. Borrow it and ride to breakfast with your new friend and buy he/she breakfast. If you were in Texas I would be more than willing to help out, Ohio is kind of a stretch........ but i have been known to do crazier things.

 

Yea, me too! BUT, it IS Ohio and they have those nasty buckeye thingys. YECK!!!!!

[wbrissette]

We were surprised that the new RT seemed to have less passenger seat room than our current one.

 

That surprises me too. My daughter is my pillion usually since my wife has her own bike. Both my daughter and I have noticed a big difference in room between us on the R1200 vs. the R1150. On the 1150, we were pretty close (yet not uncomfortable), on the 1200 we have more room between us (we have even more room on my Buell Ulysses, but its got a fairly long frame). I'm surprise to hear that you thought it felt more cramped on the R1200.

 

Wayne

[Brian R-M]

In answer to the question about whether my partner went on the RT, yes she did - but I didn't have a topbox on that bike and so, as far as she is concerned, it's not comparing like with like as having the topbox to lean back on makes her feel so much more comfortable and secure.

[Rphoto]

Well, took both a K1300GT and a R1200RT for rides today back-to-back. My wife wouldn't ride because it was raining and she didn't have a backrest so I go to wring the out myself. But because it was raining, I had to take it easy. Here are thoughts"

 

GT -- Surprised how docile it is in normal driving. No hysterics even on wet road when ridden normally. Not much low end torque; required slipping clutch at low speeds. Very smooth but kind of crotchrocket-like in its sound and throttle response. Riding position ok (about like my HD VRod Street Rod) but not as comfy as an RT.

 

RT -- Felt like I was putting on an old, familiar slipper. Ergonomics similar as was driving and handling. However, the transmission is light years smoother than my R1100RT and it had lots more power and a more refined sound and smoother at higher revs (but not like the GT). Also the driveline clunked at parking lot speeds like my RT, so guess it is normal for that bike.

 

They had an RT demo on sale for 16999 (msrp 19600). This is $3,000 less than the demo GT so price and driving experience combine, I guess I prefer the RT. However, my wife still thinks the GT feels much more roomy so that may be the way we go...and that is not a bad thing, either. Thanks for all the input on this thread.

[mig]

good day

I am a new member and have been reading this thread with interest. Currently I have an 95 ST1100 with 250k on her. I am thinking about either the RT or the GT with more lean toward the GT. My main concern is with relilability and fuel mileage. I have never been let down by my ST and have ridden everyday rain or shine in the SF area. I know the Rt should get better mileage , but want to know what some folks are getting on both bikes. I plan on doing most of the maintenance on the bike, so any big surprises to see. I have lots of questions, but these are the biggies

thanks

Miguel

[Firefight911]

Welcome 'mig'.

 

My K13GT is averaging 42 overall. It is quite variable and directly linked to the way in which I use my throttle. I can get much better or much worse depending on my mood, shall we say. My best has been 47 and my worst 34.

 

As for maintenance, there really isn't a whole lot to do with the GT. However, when it is time to do the valves, etc. it is very involved and not really DIY material.

 

As for the RT, the hardest part is not losing all the screws on the fairing panels and remembering how it all fits together. Otherwise, it is a piece of cake.

 

Oil changes and basic maintenance gives, IMO, the push to the GT as you aren't in to the valves very often at all. Both bikes are set for "service" at 6000 mile intervals.

 

One hour on the GT every 6k until valves are needed. 3 - 4 hours every 6k to do the RT. A day at the shop for valves on the GT for me. I'm not gonna do them myself.

 

Hope this helps a bit. Update your profile so we get to know some more about you. You indicate San Francisco area so that puts you close to a lot of great people that can really help out, irrespective of which bike you get. We get together for tech sessions, etc. frequently so keep an eye on the 'Ride and Event Planning' section for one near you.

[smiller]

Hi Miguel,

 

The K-GT's normally see 40-42 mpg in commute duty, more on the open road and less if you like to hammer it. The R1200 bikes normally see maybe 5 mpg higher. Of course this will always vary by individual and operating conditions.

 

Service-wise the R bikes need a little more attention, but what attention is required is relatively easy for an owner to perform. The K bikes need a little less but services are more difficult to perform. Valve adjustments are the most obvious difference, very easy to perform on the R bikes (at approx. 12k mile intervals, BMW specifies 6 but most owners find 12 works just fine) with 18k being specified for the K (again, with 24k probably being closer to the real-world requirement.) So, you'll be checking the R bike about twice as often but at a lot less time per check so it partially balances out, but I think overall ease is still in favor of the R bike. An owner can do valve check/adjusts on the K bike but it's definitely an operation for the more advanced home mechanic. Other areas though tend to favor the K, for instance clutch/transmission work is much easier on the K than the R, the latter pretty much needing to be split in half to get at the clutch or remove the transmission. Hard to say what the difference would be in totals hours of maintenance for both bikes over a 100k mile stretch.

 

In the end though the R and K bikes have very different characters and this will probably factor into your decision more than maintenance issues. The K bike will be much closer to your ST1100 (but a lot faster ), but the R bike has a very appealing character that is unlike anything else out there and many find it uniquely attractive. You need to get on them both ans see what you think.

[mig]

thanks for the replys:

sorry phil I should have checked my messages before sending you a private message. Anyway thanks for the info. I have done all the maintenance to my ST including the timing belt and the alternator upgrade and dissasembling / inspecting the final drive, front fort springs and PIAA farkles. so I can get deep into the tech stuff, just not to thrilled to do it anymore. I have ridden both but only for a short time 10 minutes or so. Not enough to really feel the bike. The dealer in Marin has a 35 mile route he sends people out to test, it includes some freeway, mountain and city. hope to do that in september or so. I appreciate the maintenace break down you have provided.

thanks

Miguel

[smiller]

I have done all the maintenance to my ST including the timing belt and the alternator upgrade and dissasembling / inspecting the final drive, front fort springs and PIAA farkles. so I can get deep into the tech stuff, just not to thrilled to do it anymore.

Well in that case you're probably up to any routine maintenance either bike will throw at you. There seems to be some mystique about the difficulty of K bike valve checks but I don't see why they would be significantly different from valve service on any shim-based cam design, and that category includes a lot of bikes these days. The K bikes require removal of a lot of stuff including the radiator (due to the extreme forward cant of the engine) but that's not that big a deal, just some extra time. I imagine there are any number of OHC Japanese bikes where valve adjustments aren't exactly fun either.

[RiceToy]

Demo'd both, +1 for the K1300GT because it is so much more of what a motorcycle should be - Exhilarating!