Great White North Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Good day all, I just finished installing a new HES on my 96 1100RT, it is thanks to the expertise of this group that I was able to pinpoint the cause of my problem (HES), and was referred to a good supplier to boot ! My RT now purrs like a kitten... Perhaps too much !!! New HES was installed, Tank installed, all wiring checked, etc. Bike started on first attempt. Initially, it would not keep running without a bit of coaxing from the throttle, but once it warms up, the RPM now settles somewhere between 800-900 RPM, nice VERY slow thumping at idle... , but when I open the throttle, I get a bit of knocking before the engine gets up to speed if I open the throttle too quick - It works fine if I only gradually open the throttle. What has knowingly changed since I last ran the bike: the new HES and installed, a newer exhaust (OEM)muffler was installed - used muffler, but OEM. Does the knocking point to a timing issue? or is it simply because the engine is revving so slow ? I have played with the position of the HES thinking it would solve this, but it did not make any difference to the IDLE speed or the knocking sound. As alwayays, any help to return idle to 1000-1100 rpm range, and eliminating this knocking sound would be much appreciated. Link to comment
jblaze5779 Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 the first thing everyone seems to bring up on this forum is "did you check to make sure your throttle cables were seated properly?" Link to comment
Boffin Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 the first thing everyone seems to bring up on this forum is "did you check to make sure your throttle cables were seated properly?" It is the best place to start - the cables are very easilly dislodged from their ferrules and this causes all sorts of poor running. Do not rely on looking at the cables, physically try to re-seat them. Andy Link to comment
Great White North Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 I have physically checked all cables, everything is seated properly as far as I can see.. Tks, M. Link to comment
T__ Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Good day all, I just finished installing a new HES on my 96 1100RT, it is thanks to the expertise of this group that I was able to pinpoint the cause of my problem (HES), and was referred to a good supplier to boot ! My RT now purrs like a kitten... Perhaps too much !!! New HES was installed, Tank installed, all wiring checked, etc. Bike started on first attempt. Initially, it would not keep running without a bit of coaxing from the throttle, but once it warms up, the RPM now settles somewhere between 800-900 RPM, nice VERY slow thumping at idle... , but when I open the throttle, I get a bit of knocking before the engine gets up to speed if I open the throttle too quick - It works fine if I only gradually open the throttle. What has knowingly changed since I last ran the bike: the new HES and installed, a newer exhaust (OEM)muffler was installed - used muffler, but OEM. Does the knocking point to a timing issue? or is it simply because the engine is revving so slow ? I have played with the position of the HES thinking it would solve this, but it did not make any difference to the IDLE speed or the knocking sound. As alwayays, any help to return idle to 1000-1100 rpm range, and eliminating this knocking sound would be much appreciated. MLand, lots of possibilities on this one.. About all you can do go though & clear all the possibilities.. As mentioned above,, fully seated throttle cables would be near the top of the list,, don’t just look,, reach in with your hand & feel for BOTH TBI cams lifting off (then returning to) the idle stops at the same time as someone else slowly works the throttle.. Quite possible you have a spark plug wire partially pulled loose at the ign coil (be sure both plug wires are fully seated in both the coil & on spark plugs).. Your problem has the ear marks of a cylinder firing under no load then cutting out during cylinder loading so maybe check spark plugs & plug wire integrity.. Make sure both fuel tank fuel lines are FULLY connected & they are hooked up to the correct lines (real easy to get the fuel lines switched upon re-assembly unless they were plainly marked at disassembly) Not sure what the reason was leading up to the HES install but if your crankcase is loaded up with raw fuel it can be working up past the piston rings & causing you all kinds of engine running problems (sniff the engine oil for raw fuel being present,, see if it is overfull,, if you can get some out see if it will easily ignite) Maybe still an ign timing issue—Either build a timing box to check the static HES timing setting or hook up an inductive timing light & point it into the engine timing hole to verify sparking at TDC during cranking or low idle.. Look for a pinched rubber fuel line causing a possible fuel restriction.. See if one exhaust pipe is cooler than the other during idle (might point to a side not firing correctly),, if one side is cooler than the other MAKE DARN SURE THOSE THROTTLE CABLES ARE SEATED & BOTH TBI cams open & close AT THE SAME TIME.. (this is the number one reason for similar problems to what you are experiencing).. Probably more that I forgot to mention here but this will get you started.. Twisty Link to comment
Great White North Posted July 4, 2009 Author Share Posted July 4, 2009 Thanks for the detailed post, I've got my work cut out for me! I'll work through these suggestions starting with checking the cables and TBI movement first. Will post results/findings. Thanks again. M. Link to comment
Wooster Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 ... , but when I open the throttle, I get a bit of knocking before the engine gets up to speed if I open the throttle too quick - It works fine if I only gradually open the throttle. What has knowingly changed since I last ran the bike: the new HES and installed, a newer exhaust (OEM)muffler was installed - used muffler, but OEM. If you have the earlier exhaust plumbing (and it was at least functional before you replaced it), put it on in place of your "newer exhaust (OEM) muffler"; it's conceivable that your motor's lethargy is the result of a blocked exhaust system. Wooster btw belated happy Canada Day and a timely happy Independance Day to the USA ! Link to comment
Satguy Posted July 4, 2009 Share Posted July 4, 2009 Start with simple things. Don't get too involved searching for a problem that does not exist. We are not here to re-engineer the thing. Do you have a vacuume guage set?? Get a Twin-Max or make a simple manometer (sp?) and check the TB sync first. Just connect each hose to the test ports on each throttle body. Fire it up and see if the balance is anywhere close. If not, make sure each TB cable is just slack and more importantly that the plates are resting on the stops. Use the large brass screws on each TB to try and bring the airflow on each TB into balance. There is a long procedure to correctly balance the TB, and I'm not going to write it all out here. If it idles at 800-900 RPM, you are pretty close to the factory spec of 1000 - 1150 RPM You need to make sure the engine is at normal operating temp. prior to checking/adjusting the TB sync. BTW Checking the timing after replacing the HES is also a good idea. Just use a timing light, probably easier than making a box with LED and battery etc. Static timing is a TDC on #1 cyl. if you have a box. Good Luck Link to comment
Great White North Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Ohhhh..... It's one of those moments where one questions if they should come out and say to the world "I did something real dumb", or if I should just remain silent and move on quietly without anyone noticing ... In this case, I'll share my 'moment' in hope that someone else will learn from it. Ok, so my saga of the New HES/Low RPM came to a quick resolution last night... ....As soon as I plugged in the RHS fuel injector connector... !! Yeah, that's all it was. I now remember disconnecting it to get better access to pull out the flywheel view hole plug... Well it so happens that the connector afterward somehow landed on top of the FI receptacle, and very much 'looked' like it was plugged in... But it was just sitting there, not even pushed in. I was checking the throttle cables once again last night and just brushed the connector with my hand, and it fell out !!!! It was one of those moments where a bunch of details about the previous day's work suddenly come back to you and some key facts you forgot about hit you and cause a severy Ahhhh..Ha! moment. So now I know the engine will start just fine on a single cylinder, and how it sounds and behaves when that happens... There is always 'somethign' to be learned. While checking the throttle cables, I noticed tiny rocks wedged between the cables and pulleys. I was able to clean these out with compressed air. I'm hopefull this will eliminate some mild surging I was experiencing prior to this. I should be able to confirm tomorrow after I re-install all tupperware and take it out for a test drive. I did once again learn a pile of stuff about this 'new to me' bike by investigating your suggestions, so from that point of view, I'm better equipped for the next time around!! So a big THANK YOU to all those of you who contributed to this discussion. Cheers to all, Thanks again, and ride safe. MLand. Link to comment
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