Recommended Engine Oil - Revisited

[Catbird]

(I did a topic "search", but thought I'd ask again.)

I became engaged in a conversation today with my BMW m/c dealer service manager regarding engine oil for my '05 RT.

 

Among other things, he issued a strong warning against using Castrol GTX standard automotive oil; it is, according to him, one of the worst oils to use in my RT. If I want to use "Castrol" in my bike, it is imperative that I use only the motorcycle grade.

 

I'm not personally "stuck" on any particular brand of oil, however I would like to start using an oil that I can readily obtain locally from Auto Zone, Advanced Auto, etc. for $5 or so per quart, if possible.

 

I read in another thread that "Grumpy-ol-Fart" (Tim) uses Castrol Syntech, which I presume (but not sure), is automotive grade and is easily obtainable from many stores, i.e., Wal-Mart and others.

 

What do you use? Any opinions/recommendations are appreciated.

[Huzband]

Bottle says "oil".

 

That's all that matters.

[Paul Mihalka]

There are many BMW motorcycles out there that got into way over 100K miles on Castrol GTX.

OTOH if you really want a Castrol motorcycle oil, check out Castrol Act-Evo. Designed for 4 stroke motorcycles, at less crazy prices than BMW brand oil.

 

http://www.discount-motorcycle-parts.net/castrol-synthetic-motorcycle-p-167.html

[JayW]

Sounds like a dogmatic assertion to me, ie, "one of the worst...". Why does he single it out over other auotomotive oils? Did he give you a plausible reason as to why not to use the Catrol GTX? If not, then his credibility is strongly suspect.

 

The truth, as I understand it, is that automotive oils are just fine for use in a motorcyle with a dry clutch, like the RT has. As a service manager, he certainly should be aware of which clutch designs the various BMWs have, so I really cannot understand where he is coming from.

 

One could make an argument that motorcycle-specific oils have various additives and extra Zn or what not that is beneficial for a motorcycle engine, but even that argument is a debatable.

 

Having said this, I must confess that I do use a MC-specific oil in my own '05 RT, just in case the above argument has some Truth to it. You can get Mobil 1 MC oil at most Wal-Marts and automotive retailers, but it does cost more than $5/quart.

 

Jay

[Fubar]

My salesman stated that his service department suggests NOT using synthetic oils for at least 16K miles. He claimed it was because the seals are made of real rubber. Haven't followed up yet with the techs yet but it seemed a very odd thing to say.

I used synth Mobil m/c oil in my last bike and had no issues at all in almost 18 years (a Yamaha 750).

I am really interested to know the answer to this one as well.

[Catbird]

Thanks for the feedback, so far!

 

Just because I wasn't aware of any precautions against it, I used only Castrol GTX 20W-50 in my '96 R1100RT for the 9 years I had it and didn't experience any problems.

 

For that reason alone, I have continued the same routine in my '05 RT. I only have a tad over 4K miles on the bike and it has already stopped using any noticeable quantity of oil.

 

As I said above, I have no qualms about changing oils if there is a valid reason.

[marcopolo]

Why not simply check your owner's manual and use the grade of oil that's appropriate for your riding conditions and that meets the specifications BMW sets out in the manual?

[Huzband]

To be more specific, my Dad & I used Castrol GTX in our Airheads for more than 150k combined miles.

 

I now use Motul 20w50 in my RT, but I believe you'll be fine with GTX.

 

If it's working for you, without major oil loss, keep it up.

[markgoodrich]

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=431113

 

[jaytee]

...I have no qualms about changing oils if there is a valid reason.

 

Don't know if this is a valid reason, but recently I put a no-name auto oil in my ST and then promptly freaked out when I found that I had the wrong API designation. Apparently it matters somewhat. I posted up and you can read what was said here:

 

Wrong Oil in ST

 

The short of it is that newer automotive oils change their additives to cope with the catalytic converters in modern cars. If you use an oil with out the older additives in a motorcycle it could cause excessive wear, especially at higher RPM's. So long as you match the API requirement in your manual you should be fine, regardless of brand or type. In specific, with my bike, an API of SF or SG is fine but API's after that may not have the proper additives (although apparently a multi-purpose oil with diesel API's does). Since in the automotive world API's supercede each other the same brand of motor oil can actually change the API over time and not rebrand.

 

In your case, Castrol GTW 20w50 seems to be API SH and would likely not have as much Zinc as compared to say Valvoline SG Multi 20w50, which is an API SG.

 

Practically speaking, are you really going to keep this motorcycle for 100k? If so, you might want to do more research or switch to an oil with API SG or earlier.

 

JT

 

 

Your

[rglassma]

The classification of motor oil that BMW motorcycles use is

SG/SH and SG/SH only !!!!

 

Not SJ, and not SL...

 

Castrol 4T motorcycle oil is the least expensive motorcycle oil that I know of that will meet those charactoristics. Pep Boys here in Colorado sells that oil for 15.99 for a Gallon Jug. That is 4.00 per quart. I believe that meets your criteria.

 

That is what I use. You have a 6K oil change interval. That is all you have to do..

 

[jaytee]

The classification of motor oil that BMW motorcycles use is

SG/SH and SG/SH only !!!!

 

My manual says SF.

 

My current understanding is that SG is fine, but I do not know about SH.

 

JT

[Lawman]

The classification of motor oil that BMW motorcycles use is

SG/SH and SG/SH only !!!!

 

My manual says SF.

 

My current understanding is that SG is fine, but I do not know about SH.

 

JT

 

"A design criterion for new categories is that the performance requirements of later categories exceed the performance requirements of all previous categories. Therefore, APH SJ oils will be superior in performance to SH, SG, etc."

 

http://www.corrosionvci.com/oil.htm#AmericanPetroleumInstituet

 

 

[rglassma]

I wouldn't get too bogged down in the details.

 

The fact of the matter is, that you should stick with a motorcycle specific oil with specifications greater then or equal to SF or SG. If you want to get sticky about it, the written recommendation in the BMW letter details in the previous post does not match that in your owners manual.

 

If you simply look for a motorcycle oil with SF / SG designation, you will not have any trouble.

 

I would just choose one and move on. Ride the bike !!! It is far more fun then worrying about motorcycle oil.

[Twisties]

The classification of motor oil that BMW motorcycles use is

SG/SH and SG/SH only !!!!

 

Not SJ, and not SL...

 

That is most certainly not what my 2007 RT manual says.

 

Engine oils of the API classification SF or better... ACEA classification A2 or better... not using synthetic oils for the first 6000 miles...

 

or what our 2009 F 650 GS manual says.

 

Mineral engine oils of the API classification SF to SH.

[T__]

(I did a topic "search", but thought I'd ask again.)

I became engaged in a conversation today with my BMW m/c dealer service manager regarding engine oil for my '05 RT.

 

Among other things, he issued a strong warning against using Castrol GTX standard automotive oil; it is, according to him, one of the worst oils to use in my RT. If I want to use "Castrol" in my bike, it is imperative that I use only the motorcycle grade.

 

I'm not personally "stuck" on any particular brand of oil, however I would like to start using an oil that I can readily obtain locally from Auto Zone, Advanced Auto, etc. for $5 or so per quart, if possible.

 

I read in another thread that "Grumpy-ol-Fart" (Tim) uses Castrol Syntech, which I presume (but not sure), is automotive grade and is easily obtainable from many stores, i.e., Wal-Mart and others.

 

What do you use? Any opinions/recommendations are appreciated.

 

Catbird,

 

Car oil huh! What in the world is CAR OIL.. Have that service manager tell you what that actually means.. Then have him name you one car built in the last 15-20 years that specifies a 20w50 motor oil (not including some low production high performance cars or import diesels)..

 

Then have him tell you (actually have him read it to you) what the owners manual that came with your bike says to use oil wise.. It should say something like use API SF or better.. It doesn’t say to use motorcycle only oil or use only SG or SH it says use API SF or BETTER..

 

Now have him read the specs on the 20W50 Castrol GTX web site.. ----Should say something like—

“SAE 20W-50: is a premium, super multigrade that guards against wear by providing a superior oil film strength and extreme high temperature strength. 20W-50 exceeds API service SM, SL, SJ and SH. Use SAE 20W-50 when ambient temperature is above 20 degrees Fahrenheit.”

 

SO even if you go back to the age old (20 year old) BMW service bulletin that did specify an oil grade requirement “brand name HD oil API SF,, SG,, or SH,,” the 20W50 GTX meets that as it exceeds the SH spec given in that outdated bulletin..

 

The API oil ratings are as a rule backwards compatible (ie a current SM oil meets or exceeds the older SG or SH requirements).. So UNLESS the equipment (motorcycle) manufacturer in question specifically states to use a certain API rated oil (some do) then you should be OK using the new Castrol GTX.. My Ducati states to use only SG/SH rated oil but that also uses a more car compatible lower viscosity engine oil (not 20W50).. But even then the GTX 10W40 would work as it exceeds the SH requirement..

 

So if we look at current car (automotive) & motorcycle requirements it would be more correct to call the GTX 20W50 a motorcycle oil than a car oil as most modern cars are not rated to use a 20W50 motor oil but a lot of modern motorcycles can use the current series Castrol GTX 20W50 motor oil..

 

OK,, with the above being said would I personally use the Castrol GTX 20W50 in my new BMW motorcycle.. Sure,, if I had to,, but I wouldn’t as the Castrol 20W50 4-T (4 stroke) has a lot more ZDDP (anti scuff/anti wear) ingredients in it & only costs a few cents more per quart in my area here.. For normal riding/ normal operational requirements the GTX & 4-T protects about the same but in unusual circumstances (like long term storage with oil drain back/then start up) or (extreme bearing loadings),, or (oil starvation) situations the edge would go to the 4-T over the GTX because of the higher ZDDP content..

 

Just as an additional thought here-- have that opinionated service manager (A lot of service managers are just pitch men anyhow) tell you,, or better yet show you of the last BMW 1200 hex engine they repaired due to using Castrol GTX motor oil & how the GTX caused the failure..

 

Good luck getting anything definitive about motor oil use in your BMW motorcycle.. There just aren’t enough BMW engine failures to give anyone ammunition to back up their claims..

 

Twisty

 

 

 

 

 

 

[trek]

I recently spoke with Hank from Dilley Texas. He owns a 1995 1100GS. He uses Mobil 1 automotive oil in his bike. His bike has over 420,000 miles on it and the only engine repair done was replacing the chain guides.

 

He states that auto oil is slipperier due to the fact that MC oil when used in a Wet Clutch bike needs to be less slippery so that the clutch plates do not slip.

 

The other reason he uses Mobil 1 is that he has traveled extensively through South America and he has no trouble finding oil on the road.

 

[T__]

clip_

He states that auto oil is slipperier due to the fact that MC oil when used in a Wet Clutch bike needs to be less slippery so that the clutch plates do not slip._clip

 

Trek, that is not entirely true.. It can hold true in SOME automotive engine oils but not in all cases & especially in the higher viscosity ranges that a lot of motorcycles use..

 

The deal is-- a lot of modern auto manufactures (usually government mandated) have specified an energy conserving (slippery) motor oil be used in late model modern automobiles & light trucks.. Those motor oil’s are usually only energy conserving in the lower viscosity ranges (like 0w30,,5w20,,10w30,, etc) not many (none that I know of) are energy conserving in the 15w50 or 20w50 viscosity ranges that we use in motorcycles.. I’m sure if you looked hard enough you might find an energy conserving (as you say more slippery) engine oil in the 15 or 20 W40/50 range but they are few & very far between..

 

You can easily tell the energy rated (more slippery) engine oil by looking at the API donut on the container.. The energy conserving (more slippery) oil’s will have the words (energy conserving) written in the lower window of the API donut on the oil container,, if the lower window in the API donut is blank it is not “energy rated” slippery oil ..

 

None of the Mobil-1 oil’s (that I have seen anyhow) in the 15w50 or 20w50 viscosity ranges carry the “energy conserving” rating & by looking at a couple of Mobil-1 10w40 containers I have there is no “energy conserving” rating on those either..

 

Engine oil (motor oil) is getting very difficult to understand in the last few years as a lot of the older oil formulas are being phased out due to process change & vehicle requirements.. The old SF, SG, SH, API classifications are now obsolete so no one can now manufacture a new oil & give it a true SF, SG, or SH API rating.. All they can do is state it meets those classifications.. So that means if you design or manufacture a new motor oil (or significantly change an old one) it would have to be marketed as a higher API classification (like SJ or SL or SM with a qualifier stating that it meets or exceeds the older (obsolete) SF, SG, SH classification..

 

The ONLY true way to know what is in or what specs a new motor oil meets is to look at the specifications published by the oil companies on their web sites or data sheets & compare those to what is required to satisfy your engine requirements.. Even then it can be a difficult task as some of the oil companies now only furnish very basic oil additive data (especially if their oil has eliminated or reduced some of the better additives that people use to compare motor oil’s).. If an oil company’s product still retains the good anti wear or anti scuff additives they will usually publish that data but if their oil has reduced or eliminated a good additive they might not want to publish that info freely..

There is some 3rd party oil data available due to oil testing or comparison so in some cases a person can find the lacking oil data that an oil company conveniently forgot to provide..

Proper motorcycle oil choice is getting more difficult every year due to automotive & diesel oil requirement changes.. Even the old stand by of using a diesel rated motor oil is getting more difficult as even the new (& even older design) diesel rated motor oil’s are pulling some of the good additives in the name of improved diesel emission control protection (Rotella-T is one that has changed for the worse in the last year or so)..

 

Twisty

 

 

 

[jaytee]

The deal is-- a lot of modern auto manufactures (usually government mandated) have specified an energy conserving (slippery) motor oil be used in late model modern automobiles & light trucks..

 

The ONLY true way to know what is in or what specs a new motor oil meets is to look at the specifications published by the oil companies on their web sites or data sheets & compare those to what is required to satisfy your engine requirements..

 

Twisty,

 

As much as this comes up all the time, you should really write a FAQ on it so we can answer the threads by linking your FAQ!!!

 

Thanks for being willing to take the time each time it gets asked - part of what makes the board great!

 

JT

[Ken H.]

The old SF, SG, SH, API classifications are now obsolete so no one can now manufacture a new oil & give it a true SF, SG, or SH API rating..

Exactly. Where would you even find SG/SH oil if it was “required”? Which it isn’t.

 

Over 200K on two different BMWs with nothing but Castrol GTX ever in them.

 

 

[smiller]

Also note that with regard to the highly-freaked-out-over ZDDP content, it is not API ratings that specify a limit but rather ILSAC ratings. More stringent ILSAC specs (GF-2 through GF-4) tend to accompany the more recent API ratings so there might be some linkage, but not necessarily. If you look at the labels of the higher ZDDP content oils (Mobil 1 15W-50 silver cap, diesel oils, racing oils, many non-EC higher viscosity oils, and certainly all motorcycle-specific oils) you'll notice that they do not carry an ILSAC rating, whereas all EC-rated 'car' oils do. It is more important to look for an absence of EC and ILSAC ratings than to fret over the API SG/SH/SL/SJ/SM/etc. classification.

 

And while the current HD diesel oils aren't quite as good as those in the past they are still a good choice, for now at least. On the Rotella forum a Shell technician mentioned that their current CI-4 oils do meet JASO MA specs (as distinct from car oils in terms of the common trouble areas such as friction modifiers, phosphorus levels, and ash) but there is no intention to formally certify them as such as they do not wish to market the diesel products in that manner.

[Mike05]

Amsoil put out a comparison of various grade oils used in motorcycles entitled "A Study of Motor Oils" found here.

 

Obviously they wouldn't put out a report that made themselves look bad but I found the report relatively easy to comprehend/read for a non-technical type like myself & pretty informative.

 

Worth a look.

[Catbird]

Today was a rather disappointing day. I was hoping to visit my local Wal-Mart, Auto Zone and Advance Auto and browse through their plentiful supplies of motorcycle-specific oils and come home with 4 quarts of the liquid gold of my choice.

 

Wal-Mart had absolutely none; Auto Zone had 1 quart of Valvoline m/c oil, but nothing else; Advance Auto had only 4 quarts of the same Valvoline motorcycle 4 stroke 20W-50 oil... so I bought them. The bottle does say "superior wet clutch protection" (which I don't care about), "designed specifically for motorcycles" and "meets or exceeds JASO MA API SF/SG/SJ".

 

I plan on changing oil/filter tomorrow, so if you have advice against this Valvoline, let me know ASAP. Thanks.

[Indy Dave]

Have at it! you've been given all the info and links ya need. My take from the previous threads and the BMW tech dude is . . .

 

it really doesn't matter! As many have said - put some oil in her and RIDE!!! Having the MC 4 stroke with wet clutch protection isn't going to hurt your baby, even though you don't need it.

 

change it and ride!!!

[T__]

Today was a rather disappointing day. I was hoping to visit my local Wal-Mart, Auto Zone and Advance Auto and browse through their plentiful supplies of motorcycle-specific oils and come home with 4 quarts of the liquid gold of my choice.

 

Wal-Mart had absolutely none; Auto Zone had 1 quart of Valvoline m/c oil, but nothing else; Advance Auto had only 4 quarts of the same Valvoline motorcycle 4 stroke 20W-50 oil... so I bought them. The bottle does say "superior wet clutch protection" (which I don't care about), "designed specifically for motorcycles" and "meets or exceeds JASO MA API SF/SG/SJ".

 

I plan on changing oil/filter tomorrow, so if you have advice against this Valvoline, let me know ASAP. Thanks.

 

 

Catbird, that Valvoline definitely meets the BMW requirement in your owners manual..

 

Not sure what you paid for it but in my area that is about the same price or even more costly per quart than the Mobil-1 (silver cap) 15w50 sold at my local Wally World..

 

The Mobil-1 (silver cap) is probably a better long term oil choice (if you don’t mind running synthetic oil).. The only problem is to get a good price you have to buy the 5 quart container.. That leaves an extra quart (in case you need to add some between changes) or after the 4th oil change you end up with enough to do another..

 

With the BMW hexhead oil filters being in the mid $20.00 range,, using a longer lasting synthetic engine oil can stretch the oil change interval out to the max (or in my case a little longer) with little fear of oil degradation over the full interval.. The other plus is the 15w50 synthetic gives a little better cold morning start protection (flows better on cold start) & handles the extreme heat of slow moving traffic backups much better..

 

I don’t have a problem with the Valvoline motorcycle oil itself just have an issue with the price (at least in my area) of that oil vs. other similar motorcycle oil’s.. Or put another way I have a problem with what you pay for what you get.. Maybe in your area it is price comparable with similar M/C oils..

 

Twisty

 

 

[Catbird]

Catbird, that Valvoline definitely meets the BMW requirement in your owners manual..

 

Not sure what you paid for it but in my area that is about the same price or even more costly per quart than the Mobil-1 (silver cap) 15w50 sold at my local Wally World...

 

I wasn't really too concerned about the price, but it seemed reasonable to me @ $4.39/qt.

[T__]

Catbird, that Valvoline definitely meets the BMW requirement in your owners manual..

 

Not sure what you paid for it but in my area that is about the same price or even more costly per quart than the Mobil-1 (silver cap) 15w50 sold at my local Wally World...

 

I wasn't really too concerned about the price, but it seemed reasonable to me @ $4.39/qt.

 

 

Catbird, yes that is a good price compared to my area.. That Valvoline M/C is usually in the $6.75- $8.00 per quart range in my area.. With the Mobil-1 15w50 silver cap being about $4.40 a quart at Wally World (in 5 quart containers)..

 

Twisty

 

 

[EEC]

I recently spoke with Hank from Dilley Texas. He owns a 1995 1100GS. He uses Mobil 1 automotive oil in his bike. His bike has over 420,000 miles on it and the only engine repair done was replacing the chain guides.

 

He states that auto oil is slipperier due to the fact that MC oil when used in a Wet Clutch bike needs to be less slippery so that the clutch plates do not slip.

 

The other reason he uses Mobil 1 is that he has traveled extensively through South America and he has no trouble finding oil on the road.

 

 

 

+1 on the Mobil 1, I have a 2002 R1150GS with 89K and a 1991 K100RS about to turn 82K and have used Mobil 1 15W-50 in both. I also have friends that run regular auto store oil in their K's and R's and none have had any oil related problems.

 

Just my .02

 

Dale C.

[Indy Dave]

For all the worry we can invest in over the proper oil and oil change intervals - I have never heard of a oil related failure in a car, truck, motorcycle or lawnmower. I am aware of a few on PWC's w/ 2 cycle engines - but that was never the oil's fault.

 

 

[JayW]

I have never heard of a oil related failure in a car, truck, motorcycle or lawnmower...

 

It happens all the time. Worn rings, excessive oil burning, spun bearings and engine sludge may all be classified as oil-related failures, though not every time of course. Engines lubricated with an improper oil or subject to neglected oil changes are going to develop such problems earlier than they would otherwise.

 

Jay

[bayoubengal]

Amsoil put out a comparison of various grade oils used in motorcycles entitled "A Study of Motor Oils" found here.

 

Obviously they wouldn't put out a report that made themselves look bad but I found the report relatively easy to comprehend/read for a non-technical type like myself & pretty informative.

 

Worth a look.

 

I read the study a month or so ago and found it fairly easy to comprehend.

 

I also liked the fact that they used American Society for Testing and Materials methods:

 

"Method

The testing used to evaluate the lubricants was done in accordance with American Society for Testing and Materials (ASTM)

procedures. Test methodology has been indicated for all data points, allowing for duplication and verification by any analytical

laboratory capable of conducting the ASTM tests. A notarized affidavit certifying compliance with ASTM methodology

and the accuracy of the test results is included in the appendix of this document."

 

I was convinced enough that I plan to switch all my bikes/cars to Amsoils as they come up for change.

 

On a side bar, I did my 24K last month on my RT and the ATL BMW dealer I used refused to use anything other than BMW oil, even if I brought my in. Unbelievable. Can you say tech day?

[Catbird]

For all the worry we can invest in over the proper oil and oil change intervals...

Speaking only for myself as the OP, I was simply attempting to separate fact from fiction regarding my service manager's comments. Worried? - not me.

[Beemster]

I just used Castrol Syntech oil in my RT. It is Fully Synthetic, 20W-50, API SM,SL,SJ,CF and has NO "energy conserving" symbol. The bottle states that is is "specifically formulated for Classic Cars". On the back it states that it has "increased anti-wear additives to help prevent flat tappet camshaft wear". It also states that it does NOT meet the emisson system compatibility requirements of vehicles since 1993.

Sounds like this oil has more of the anti-wear compounds (Zinc, etc) that are desireable for our motors. This may just be the perfect solution to our RT oil needs.

Here is the info from the Castrol Website.

 

 

Finally, a motor oil that's one for the classics...

 

Today's engines face different demands than those of yesteryear. Now classic car owners who are particular about what they put in their vintage vehicles can receive modern wear protection from a high–zinc formula specially engineered for classic engines.

 

Back in 1906 Castrol created its first automobile lubricant. Since then, our leading–edge technologies have protected generation after generation of engines. Castrol SYNTEC 20W–50 motor oil is geared to protecting, preserving and helping extend the life of your vehicle from an age gone by that still lives on.

 

Key Benefits *

 

 

■Contains increased zinc levels for extra engine wear prevention.

■Utilizes proprietary additives and base oils to reduce metal–on–metal contact of aging engine parts.

■Engineered to increase wear protection for classic cars with flat tappet camshafts.

* SYNTEC 20W–50 does not meet the catalyst compatibility requirements of vehicles manufactured since 1993.

 

bh

[redstar]

If you look at the A&S BMW site: http://www.ascycles.com/default.aspx

Service and maintenance schedule..at the bottom of the service sheet, it's written : BMW recommend Castrol!!! SO!!!

 

But, like some say's here, don't freakout with this, change oil and roll!!!

A+.

[Paco]

At the close of Beemster's last posting above, he quotes:

 

SYNTEC 20W–50 does not meet the catalyst compatibility requirements of vehicles manufactured since 1993."

 

That suggests to me that formulation of Castrol SYNTEC would be harmful to the cat converter on my R1200RT, and any other vehicle so equipped.

 

I also know that the Castrol oil as recommended in some of our the BMW owner manuals is NOT available in the USA.

 

 

 

[T__]

Paco, I doubt you will find any of the 20w50 motor oils & very few if any of the 15w50 motor oils that are totally catalytic converter friendly..

 

Problem is: MOST of those ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl-Dithio-Phosphate) type oil additives that make the oil so effective in it’s lubrication duties can be (under some circumstances) harmful to catalytic converters or 02 sensors..

 

BMW uses a fairly hearty honeycomb type catalyst carrier & no EGR valve to temper combustion temps so converter or 02 failure on the BMW motorcycle seem to be non existent..

 

The reason the ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl-Dithio-Phosphate) content is being lowered in passenger car type motor oils is to protect emission system components..

 

Even then, unless an engine burns lots of oil I doubt there is much chance of converter or 02 damage..

 

You would think that if BMW was worried about catalytic converter or 02 damage they would have specifically required an SL or SM type emission control friendly motor oil in their owners manual,, they don’t as all my 1200RT owner’s manual says is SF or better.. That includes SG & SH & neither of those are converter friendly in most oil brands..

 

I have no idea way Castrol puts that warning on their Syntec 20w50 & Mobil 1 has no such warning on their 15w50 or 20w50.. Maybe Mobil 1 feels that no warning is needed as their 15w50 or 20w50 is not a viscosity that is specified in modern emission control equipped automobiles or light trucks..

 

Also- I have no idea why 20w50 Castrol 4-T conventional motorcycle oil says “Excellent protection of exhaust and catalyst system” while the Syntec 20w50 says it doesn’t.. Maybe being a motorcycle specific oil the 4-T doesn’t fall under the API automotive emission requirements..

 

Unfortunately there are no current laws stating that motor oil deciphering was to made easy for the consumer..

 

Twisty

 

[Grumpy-ol-Fart]

The oils rated energy efficient don't have anything to do with "slippery" oil; there isn't any such thing as slippery oil. Oil is oil, there are organic base oils (dino oil), and synthetic base oils, and mixed oils. The additive packages in oils have nothing to do with slipperiness, they limit oxidation, resist shear, resist thermal breakdown, stabilize ph, and have various detergents added to emulsify residual deposits inside the engine. Once upon a time, the primary deposits in engines were carbon from fuel due to non-tachometric fuel./air mixtures in carbureted engines. In fuel injected engines this isn't an issue provided the oxygen sensor, manifold pressure sensor, barometric pressure sensor, and throttle position sensor are all operating properly; and if they aren't, your ecm will let you know. The most common deposits in modern engines are what's left of the additive package as it wears out, typically only a problem when trying to unrealistically extend oil change intervals.

 

The energy efficiency rating is obtained by using very light weight base oil and reducing parasitic drag. All engines that aren't dry sump lubricated have some appreciable parasitic losses due to dragging rotating components through the oil in the sump. Look at the oils that have the say energy conserving, and they will have viscosity ratings of 0W-xx or 5W-xx. 20W-xx motor oils aren't energy conserving because the base oil is simply too heavy.

 

Oils with high zinc and phosphorous content are designed for heavy loaded engines. Typically diesel engines and motorcycle engines are considered heavy loaded due to temperature extremes and/or heavy loading on the bearing surfaces. These heavy metals provide excellent shear resistance in heavily loaded bearing application...however, they are toxic to catalytic convertors. That's why motorcycle specific oils aren't recommended for motorcycles that have cats. Some motorcycle specific oils have additives that provide additional shear resistance. Wet clutch applications produce extremely higher shear loads than dry clutch engines experience. In most BMW motorcycles, there is absolutely no reason to avoid what might be considered automotive oils because we have dry clutches and catalytic convertors. As far as the oil is concerned, the environment it lives in is much more car like than in either older strictly air cooled set clutch bikes.

 

My semi-informed 2-cents...

 

[IRPUK]

I know that I went to my local dealer last week to get some more and was told that BMW are not being 'difficult' with them for not using Castrol (they normally use Plutoline).

 

In addition, they (BMW) are moving to 10/50 for all Boxers; but letting the dealers run out the old stocks of 20/50 first. Being a curious soul, I checked this with another dealer and was told the same.

[Lawman]

is this any good?

 

http://www.amref.com/bp_pb/7157_BP_Penn-Grade_1_4_Stroke_Motorcycle_Oil_PB.pdf

[Dave_in_TX]

The oils rated energy efficient don't have anything to do with "slippery" oil; there isn't any such thing as slippery oil. Oil is oil, there are organic base oils (dino oil), and synthetic base oils, and mixed oils. The additive packages in oils have nothing to do with slipperiness, they limit oxidation, resist shear, resist thermal breakdown, stabilize ph, and have various detergents added to emulsify residual deposits inside the engine. Once upon a time, the primary deposits in engines were carbon from fuel due to non-tachometric fuel./air mixtures in carbureted engines. In fuel injected engines this isn't an issue provided the oxygen sensor, manifold pressure sensor, barometric pressure sensor, and throttle position sensor are all operating properly; and if they aren't, your ecm will let you know. The most common deposits in modern engines are what's left of the additive package as it wears out, typically only a problem when trying to unrealistically extend oil change intervals.

 

The energy efficiency rating is obtained by using very light weight base oil and reducing parasitic drag. All engines that aren't dry sump lubricated have some appreciable parasitic losses due to dragging rotating components through the oil in the sump. Look at the oils that have the say energy conserving, and they will have viscosity ratings of 0W-xx or 5W-xx. 20W-xx motor oils aren't energy conserving because the base oil is simply too heavy.

 

Oils with high zinc and phosphorous content are designed for heavy loaded engines. Typically diesel engines and motorcycle engines are considered heavy loaded due to temperature extremes and/or heavy loading on the bearing surfaces. These heavy metals provide excellent shear resistance in heavily loaded bearing application...however, they are toxic to catalytic convertors. That's why motorcycle specific oils aren't recommended for motorcycles that have cats. Some motorcycle specific oils have additives that provide additional shear resistance. Wet clutch applications produce extremely higher shear loads than dry clutch engines experience. In most BMW motorcycles, there is absolutely no reason to avoid what might be considered automotive oils because we have dry clutches and catalytic convertors. As far as the oil is concerned, the environment it lives in is much more car like than in either older strictly air cooled set clutch bikes.

 

My semi-informed 2-cents...

 

Additives sometimes do have something to do with "slipperyness". Friction modifiers such as moly have less friction than other types of anti-wear additives such as ZDDP. That's why oils with a heavy dose of friction modifiers are considered bad for wet clutches. A lighter base oil is only part of the formula for an energy conserving oil. And just because an oil is a 20Wxx doesn't mean it doesn't have friciton modifiers. According to a Mobil suport tech I communicated with a while back, one reason Mobil no longer recommends their car oil for bikes (and part of the reason they now have bike specific oils) is that they have started using friction modifiers in their heavier oils as part of the anti-wear package, although probably not to the same extent as in energy saving oils.

[Twisties]

I know that I went to my local dealer last week to get some more and was told that BMW are not being 'difficult' with them for not using Castrol (they normally use Plutoline).

 

In addition, they (BMW) are moving to 10/50 for all Boxers; but letting the dealers run out the old stocks of 20/50 first. Being a curious soul, I checked this with another dealer and was told the same.

 

I've been using Castrol 10W-50. However this weight is only available as a synthetic and is branded a "racing" oil. I really like the performance though as far as cold weather starts, minimal oil loss. I do have some concern if it is formulated for long (6000 mile) change intervals. I have a question in to Castrol on that now. Hope to have an answer soon.

 

It is well known that the BMW Castrol recommendation refers to the German version of Castrol products, which are not the same in the states. So why they put this label on the US version of the manual is a mystery. BMW labeled oil in the US is made by Spectro, or so I hear.