traffic stop story

[upflying]

At about 0630 hrs this morning I am in full uniform and riding my black and white HD in the #1 carpool lane on a major East Bay freeway. Traffic is moderate and traveling predominately at the 65 mph limit.

I am traveling at an indicated 75 mph in an effort to prevent traffic from stacking up behind and as a courtesy to the other commuters behind me.

Motorcycles are a frequent sighting on this freeway due to perpetual bottlenecks and routine lane splitting activity several miles behind me. Three or four sport bikes had caught up to me and were now following me at the same speed.

At about this time, I notice a HD overtaking me on the right in the #3 lane at a visually estimated speed of about 10 mph faster than I was traveling. It was daylight and there were no large profile vehicles next to or behind me that would have prevented this HD rider from seeing me.

After the pass, the rider changed two lanes to the left and accelerates away from me in the #1 lane.

I accelerate to match his speed. From a distance of about 100' behind the Harley, I conduct a pace at a steady indicated 85 mph for a distance of one mile.

I pull up closer, activate the red bulb and the rider stops on the right shoulder. I am concerned the rider had set me up and was intentionally provoking a confrontation for some reason.

I ask the rider four questions;

Q "Do you know what the speed limit is"?

A "It's 65 or 70"

Q "Do you know how fast you were going"?

A "About 80"

Q "Did you see me when you passed me"?

A "yes"

Q "Why did you pass me?"

A "I was being an idiot"

 

In exchange for his honesty, I issued a performance award for 80mph. Anything 20mph over the limit is an automatic driver's license suspension.

Ride Safe

 

[GordonB]

I was on the I5 on my RT heading south thru Dana Point and came upon a training ride. 8 (city) motor officers two abreast with support vehicle following behind. Their avg speed was 70, but the bottleneck they created was making for some hazardous riding. So I inched my way forward and provided a wave to acknowledge their presence as I passed (about 3 mph faster) . A courtesy blip of the siren was all I needed to know not to pass. An opening in the bottleneck allowed several cars to speed up and pass (I guess they thought city LEO would not cite on Fwy). Soon as they passed, all eight of them flipped on the red and proceeded to pull over the 6 cars that passed. Well deserved IMHO.

[E30TECH]

Just out of curiousity, what would have been the fastest speed you would have allowed? Had he not moved into the left, would you have let him go?

 

Not criticizing - i am just curious.

[Lmar]

I ask the rider four questions;

Q "Do you know what the speed limit is"?

A "It's 65 or 70"

Q "Do you know how fast you were going"?

A "About 80"

Q "Did you see me when you passed me"?

A "yes"

Q "Why did you pass me?"

A "I was being an idiot"

 

In exchange for his honesty, I issued a performance award for 80mph. Anything 20mph over the limit is an automatic driver's license suspension.

Ride Safe

 

You were nice to him, he could have lost his license. What is the length of the license suspension?

[Dennis Andress]

In the last two days there have been two instances where a Harley rider put Laney and/or I at risk. "Idiot" is a good description for both of them, and "drunk" might fit the first. I'm hating Harleys this week.

 

Why did you let him go???

[onmyrt]

I really don't mean to offend, I'm just trying to learn something here.

 

If the legal speed limit was 65, and you were doing 75, weren't you in violation?

Along with those that were following you at your speed?

 

What is the maximum speed that you as an LEO can travel before having to cite yourself?

 

And, if the HD rider was in fact doing 85, why not cite him accordingly?

 

Again, no offense intended.

[ltljohn]

In the last two days there have been two instances where a Harley rider put Laney and/or I at risk. "Idiot" is a good description for both of them, and "drunk" might fit the first. I'm hating Harleys this week.

 

Why did you let him go???

 

My guess is that he did not run or offer a BS story and really was not endangering anyone else. Officer discretion has saved me more than one ticket when my uniforms were hanging in the back window. Courtesy and respect go a long way.

 

 

[CoarsegoldKid]

On major metropolitan California freeways, and it must be the same elsewhere, traffic flow is routinely 10 over posted. But if you are out there on your own 10 over you will likely get the award. Passing a CHP IMHO is never a good idea unless they are under the posted limit which in my experience is rarely witnessed. CHP vehicles or city units with a "not in service" sign in the window will back up a freeway so fast.

Thanks for increasing the pace.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Interesting one last year on I-12 between New Orleans and Baton Rouge, headed west. Road is mostly 4 lane and I'm rolling along at my usual 10 over. Slowly closing on a black SUV that is going maybe 5 over. I don't break stride and just move from the left to the right lane to roll on around him. As I do, on go a set of strobes built into the tail lights. I roll down to his pace and continue in the right lane, he in the left.

 

Traffic brings me into the left lane behind him and after we pass the slower vehicle, a guy comes bombing around both of us in the right lane at about 20 over. On goes the full light show and he pulls the passer over. I swing to the left to give him room and once the other vehicle stops, he just swung around hem and resumed his way down the road. Actually caught and passed me then went back to 5 over.

 

I like that method. No tickets written, nobody lost their driving privilege but the message certainly was gotten across.

[onmyrt]

On major metropolitan California freeways, and it must be the same elsewhere, traffic flow is routinely 10 over posted.

Only because it's allowed.

 

If driving the speed limit creates a danger, then the limit either needs to be raised

or a better means of enforcement needs to be implemented.

 

Cameras issuing 2500 tickets a day would put an end to the problem in a week.

[beemerman2k]

Bob, before the vocal critics chime in, allow me to applaud your sensible police work. I don't know squat about all that you have to consider in your day to day work, but it's nice to be reminded of just how thoughtful our LEO's are

[swilson]

Well, we can all see where this thread is headed. *sigh*

 

I had a funny (to me) one last week Bob. Hwy 101 during evening commute hours. HOV lane was nearly empty and all other lanes were around the speed limit. I saw a really cool looking hot rod a couple cars ahead, so I moved up to take a better look.

 

Just as I moved in behind it... a 1932 Model A hot rodded to the max... he dropped a gear or two, made a really unsafe lane change into the HOV lane and gave it all it had. Apparently he should have put more of his money into rear view mirrors. His rear views were smaller than the ones on my RT-P. I was 3 car lengths behind him the entire time. Fastest ticket I've even written 115 mph.

 

He too got a break with the 115 ticket and the license suspension that will follow. He could have been charged with reckless driving (misdemeanor) and had his ride impounded for 30 days. His honesty, attitude, and his previously clean driving record earned him the break.

 

GordonB, funny story.

 

 

[Sellis]

I owe a big one to an constable just outside of Fort Davis, TX. We had just passed through the town at 25mph or so, and started to accelerate as we passed the town limits. A big SUV is coming in the opposite direction and lights us up, (I was the 2nd bike of 2) I looked down at my GPS and it indicated 59. Long story short, he told us that the speed limit was 50mph, we thought it was 55mph, and that there were a lot of bike accidents because of the twisty road. Really nice guy, we chatted awhile, and he did not even issue a warning, just told us to slow down a little. WELL, this guy saved us a ticket for sure, continuing on up the road, we counted 4 police cars on the side of the road running radar in the next few miles. Had he not stopped us, we would have been running 70-75 and scraping the pegs for sure and would have gotten a ticket from one of the other cars on up the road, this was about 7:30am on a weekday morning, never expected to see any police at all.

 

Steve

[KDeline]

Traffic is moderate and traveling predominately at the 65 mph limit.

I am traveling at an indicated 75 mph in an effort to prevent traffic from stacking up behind and as a courtesy to the other commuters behind me.

 

 

 

Well you had to know this was coming and were this thread will go. YOU were speeding. Period. I would ride (and have) right behind you and pace.

[bendbill]

Q "Why did you pass me?"

A "I was being an idiot"

 

At least your idiot was refreshingly candid. Others of that stripe typically launch into long whine or high dudgeon.

[Boone60]

Very funny you gotta be kidding, when a Brown County Deputy was complaining about being on the carpet for driving 5 over with his squad, due to a citizen's complaint.

[Mister Tee]

20mph over the limit is an automatic driver's license suspension.

 

Is this a new thing? I've never gotten a license suspension for more than 20 over.

[RPG]

Ok, I know I'm gonna get slammed but here goes.

 

Traffic is moderate and traveling predominately at the 65 mph limit.

I am traveling at an indicated 75 mph

 

I guess I'm missing something. You were 'patrolling' at 10mph above the speed limit and you gave another guy a ticket for speeding? Although I agree he was going a bit faster than you.

 

RPG

 

 

[Traveler1]

On major metropolitan California freeways, and it must be the same elsewhere, traffic flow is routinely 10 over posted.

Only because it's allowed.

 

If driving the speed limit creates a danger, then the limit either needs to be raised or a better means of enforcement needs to be implemented.

 

Cameras issuing 2500 tickets a day would put an end to the problem in a week.

 

I would hope that cameras issuing 2500 tickets a day would put an end to the career of the politician who dreamed it up.

[onmyrt]

I would hope that cameras issuing 2500 tickets a day would put an end to the career of the politician who dreamed it up.

So, a perfectly legal and effective solution that would make people obey the law, would be a career ending move?

 

God help us all.

 

[David]

You lost me at "effective."

[Boffin]

You lost me at "effective."

 

It depends on how you define effective. In the UK the average driving speeds have dropped dramatically over the past couple of years with about 1/3 of all drivers having recieved speeding convictions. We have a law requiring the owner of the vehicle to declare who was driving the vehicle at the time of the offence. Failing to disclose carries a higher fine than the traffic offence.

 

Andy

[Nice n Easy Rider]

You lost me at "effective."

 

It depends on how you define effective. In the UK the average driving speeds have dropped dramatically over the past couple of years with about 1/3 of all drivers having recieved speeding convictions. We have a law requiring the owner of the vehicle to declare who was driving the vehicle at the time of the offence. Failing to disclose carries a higher fine than the traffic offence.

 

Andy

 

Andy,

 

Have those dramatic drops in driving speeds been accompanied by drops (dramatic or otherwise) in accidents and/or fatalities?

[David]

And what's it done to insurance rates, goodwill toward law enforcement, vandalism, etc.

[Boffin]

The government tell us that accidents at camera locations have dropped significantly. However, they use stats measured against a statisticaly high outlier and overall accident/fatality rates are up, following many yearts of a steady decline.

The introduction of cameras has also resulted in the decimation of traffic police patrols so dangerous driving, drunken driving and defctive vehicle use has rocketed. At least two UK police porce areas have no traffic police now.

[Boffin]

Insurance rates are climbing, mainly due to the number of uninsured (usually young) drivers. Goodwill has evaporated and vandalism of cameras is rife:

Linky

 

Andy

[Traveler1]

I would hope that cameras issuing 2500 tickets a day would put an end to the career of the politician who dreamed it up.

So, a perfectly legal and effective solution that would make people obey the law, would be a career ending move? God help us all.

 

I would suggest that effective and acceptable solutions are more often achieved by people like Bob who obviously has a lot of common sense, as opposed to cameras, watch lists (that wouldn't let Senator Kennedy board a plane) and etc). We (humans) are certainly fallible, but the toys we invent to control others are worse. World would be a lot better with more Bobs and fewer cameras.

[Mike]

I was on the I5 on my RT heading south thru Dana Point and came upon a training ride. 8 (city) motor officers two abreast with support vehicle following behind. Their avg speed was 70, but the bottleneck they created was making for some hazardous riding. So I inched my way forward and provided a wave to acknowledge their presence as I passed (about 3 mph faster) . A courtesy blip of the siren was all I needed to know not to pass. An opening in the bottleneck allowed several cars to speed up and pass (I guess they thought city LEO would not cite on Fwy). Soon as they passed, all eight of them flipped on the red and proceeded to pull over the 6 cars that passed. Well deserved IMHO.

 

This tactic--which we occasionally see in the Chicago metro area--kind of ticks me off, as it has been my observation that this tactic generally creates the sort of "hazardous" traffic situation you noted.

 

I'll note my personal bias here: while I don't feel it's fair to fault cops for doing their job in enforcing the laws, whether the laws are prudent or not, I draw the line at traffic enforcement that creates dangers. Whatever knucklehead dreamed up the idea of doing something like this should be slapped upside the head.

 

While it occasionally happens around here, it's pretty rare. In fact, our State Troopers tend to exercise a lot of restraint when it comes to issuing citations in heavy traffic, realizing that flashing lights creates a lot of rubbernecking, often leading to serious accidents.

 

 

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

I am traveling at an indicated 75 mph in an effort to prevent traffic from stacking up behind and as a courtesy to the other commuters behind me.

 

Thank you. I wasn't anywhere near, but there's nothing worse than traffic stacking up behind an LEO who isn't travelling at "traffic speed."

[Boone60]

I am traveling at an indicated 75 mph in an effort to prevent traffic from stacking up behind and as a courtesy to the other commuters behind me.

 

Thank you. I wasn't anywhere near, but there's nothing worse than traffic stacking up behind an LEO who isn't travelling at "traffic speed."

 

Where should the line be drawn at what dictates traffic speed and who should be the one to draw that line?

[John844]

Thank you. I wasn't anywhere near, but there's nothing worse than traffic stacking up behind an LEO who isn't travelling at "traffic speed."

 

I will second that. Traffic gets affected for miles behind them. Traffic further back in the pack end up traveling much slower than the speed limits due to the slinky affect. When things start opening up, the more aggressive drivers start scrambling to get to the front of the pack to make up for the lost time.

 

Sometimes I wonder if that is part of the process. Slow traffic down to frustrate people, then wait up ahead to monitor reactions.

[Indy Dave]

I would hope that cameras issuing 2500 tickets a day would put an end to the career of the politician who dreamed it up.

So, a perfectly legal and effective solution that would make people obey the law, would be a career ending move?

 

God help us all.

 

"One Nation, under surveillance...." Yes, God help us.

[Indy Dave]

Thank you. I wasn't anywhere near, but there's nothing worse than traffic stacking up behind an LEO who isn't travelling at "traffic speed."

 

I will second that. Traffic gets affected for miles behind them. Traffic further back in the pack end up traveling much slower than the speed limits due to the slinky affect. When things start opening up, the more aggressive drivers start scrambling to get to the front of the pack to make up for the lost time.

 

Sometimes I wonder if that is part of the process. Slow traffic down to frustrate people, then wait up ahead to monitor reactions.

 

Naw - it's to lure them to the hungry cameras. These criminals are a menace to society and must be stopped and taken off the road for good. Since we don't seem to be able to do it with speed cams, next we are going to mandate displacement limits and automatic governors on all vehicles.

 

"Ignorance and prejudice and fear walk hand in hand. . ."

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

I am traveling at an indicated 75 mph in an effort to prevent traffic from stacking up behind and as a courtesy to the other commuters behind me.

 

Thank you. I wasn't anywhere near, but there's nothing worse than traffic stacking up behind an LEO who isn't travelling at "traffic speed."

 

Where should the line be drawn at what dictates traffic speed and who should be the one to draw that line?

 

I didn't say there should be an official policy.

[David]

Where should the line be drawn at what dictates traffic speed and who should be the one to draw that line?

 

The line should be drawn at whatever speed I'm traveling, and I'll set it.

 

What a stupid question.

[Vicious_Cycler]

I am traveling at an indicated 75 mph in an effort to prevent traffic from stacking up behind and as a courtesy to the other commuters behind me.

 

Thank you. I wasn't anywhere near, but there's nothing worse than traffic stacking up behind an LEO who isn't travelling at "traffic speed."

 

Where should the line be drawn at what dictates traffic speed and who should be the one to draw that line?

 

I didn't say there should be an official policy.

 

 

+1 Boney on both: LEO's trying to avert bottlenecks behind them and giving them the common sense leeway to do it. Official policy..whatever .

[Boxtop]

I would hope that cameras issuing 2500 tickets a day would put an end to the career of the politician who dreamed it up.

So, a perfectly legal and effective solution that would make people obey the law, would be a career ending move?

 

God help us all.

 

So enforce the precise, inflexible letter of the law at all times? Write a ticket to anyone that goes even 0.1 mph over the speed limit for a brief instant? Or to anyone that slows to 0.1 mph before proceeding through a stop sign? Or to anyone that changes lanes without a proper signal on a deserted freeway at 4:00 a.m. in the morning? Or to anyone that has a leaf blow out of the back end of their pickup. (Legally, this is littering.) Is that what you really want? Not me.

 

Where should the line be drawn at what dictates traffic speed and who should be the one to draw that line?

 

The inflexible line of what is legal, and what is not, is in the Vehicle Code (State Law). The police get to selectively enforce these laws. It's been that way just about forever. Hopefully, LEO's exercise restraint, common sense and fair play in enforcing the law. A few do not. Most people are satisfied with this status quo. A few are not.

[upflying]

20mph over the limit is an automatic driver's license suspension.

 

Is this a new thing? I've never gotten a license suspension for more than 20 over.

DL suspension is up to the discretion of the traffic court commissioner. Anything 20 over gets you suspended for 7 days in this jurisdiction.

[KDeline]

I am traveling at an indicated 75 mph in an effort to prevent traffic from stacking up behind and as a courtesy to the other commuters behind me.

 

Thank you. I wasn't anywhere near, but there's nothing worse than traffic stacking up behind an LEO who isn't travelling at "traffic speed."

 

 

If you ever go in front of a judge for speeding, use that line and see how it works for you.

[upflying]

My desktop has been down so I have had to log on to a laptop to see how this thread is going. I kinda had a feeling some members would dis me about riding at 75 mph and then writing a speeding ticket to a biker who passed me while he was asleep.

I will repeat and expand on my thoguhts on this matter.

LEO's in marked patrol vehicles who travel at exactly the speed limit for miles will soon have the roadway resembling a race track with the pace car leading the pack on a caution flag. Traffic will stack up, fast moving cars will crash into slow moving traffic and angry commuters will do a slow burn after learning it is a speed limit obeying LEO who is holding things up. No one will pass the LEO for obvious reasons.

Yes, I admit I was speeding, I too was on my way to work and not technically "on patrol". I was traveling 75 mph to keep the flow moving and perhaps prevent an accident. My speed was set as a courtesy to the other drivers on the road. In effect, I was setting the pace that I feel was safe and within my level of tolerance. More on that in a moment.

Let's take a moment to define what speeding is. I completely agree if you are traveling 66mph in a 65 mph zone, you are speeding. Speeding laws are exactly the same whether you are driving 66 or 85.

Most LEO's are blessed and endowed with common sense and discretion on how those speeding laws are enforced. Our traffic courts are similarly blessed and endowed with such attributes. An officer who routinely wrote tickets for 1 mph over the speed limit would soon be out of a job.

In my case, my professional tolerance is 15 mph over the speed limit. I made that my tolerance because at that speed, most people know they are speeding. In some cases, it may be a bit less in school zones or inclement weather. Each LEO has their own professional tolerance and most officers will not disclose what that tolerance is since technically they are encouraging speeding as long as you stay under the "personal" professional tolerance of that individual officer.

So yes, I was riding at 10 mph over the speed limit but I was well within below my tolerance of the speed where I would write a ticket.

In this case, the biker was going 20 over the limit. Since he was honest about his stupidity, I gave him a break and only wrote him for 15 over to prevent a 7 day licesne suspension. Most drivers feel I am giving them a gift.

Disclaimer: Your results may vary and "professional tolerance" differs depending who is making the descretionary decision. In no way am I advocating any violation of speed and driving laws. That includes driving 1 mph over the speed limit.

Ride Safe

[DaveTX]

Bob,

 

As a former Motor Officer (now old, gray headed and retired), I appreciate your last reply and the way you explained 'common sense' in a manner that should be easily understood by all.

 

I like to refer to it as Police Officers are human too. There are good ones, and there are not so good ones, but the best ones are those that apply common sense to the laws they are charged with enforcing.

 

 

[Skywagon]

Hey Bob...nice story. If I were the HD rider, a tip of the hat would be in order to you.

 

Joke part:

 

Did you ever consider our feelings, no. You had a perfect opportunity to get an HD off the road for 7 days. It would have helped the economy as the HD driver would have spent 7 days buying chrome farkles to add to his stead, vance and hines, etc...

 

[Boffin]

The government tell us that accidents at camera locations have dropped significantly. However, they use stats measured against a statisticaly high outlier and overall accident/fatality rates are up, following many yearts of a steady decline.

The introduction of cameras has also resulted in the decimation of traffic police patrols so dangerous driving, drunken driving and defctive vehicle use has rocketed. At least two UK police porce areas have no traffic police now.

 

It seems I may be wrong. The latest figures show a 14% drop in fatalities - with a 16% drop in motorcycle fatalities - betwen 2007 and 2008, representing one fewer death per day on UK roads.

 

BBC News story

 

Andy

[onmyrt]

Each LEO has their own professional tolerance

And therein lies the problem............

 

This confirms that the enforcement of speeding laws is a gray area, inconsistent and unfair.

It's a crap shoot as to whether the LEO's 'professional tolerance' is going to hang you, or free you.

There's gotta be a better way.

[KDeline]

Each LEO has their own professional tolerance

And therein lies the problem............

 

This confirms that the enforcement of speeding laws is a gray area, inconsistent and unfair.

It's a crap shoot as to whether the LEO's 'professional tolerance' is going to hang you, or free you.

There's gotta be a better way.

 

 

Glad someone said it before I did. My common sense allows me to go 10mph over the limit to. Think the judge will agree? If you are going to inforce black and white you need to obey black and white.

[motorman587]

Can not speed in a police car in my town. People call the department or even get pulled by the highway patrol and then call the department. You get a piece of paper put in your file, where it could hurt for a promotion etc.......If you get another paper within a year you get suspended. A third fired. It's funny on the interstate when going the speed limit. Get the "stacking" affect when I can see the traffic for miles behind me cause they are scared to pass. Outstanding!!! Some departments go by the book. We get in trouble for using bad words...............

[SageRider]

And therein lies the problem............

 

This confirms that the enforcement of speeding laws is a gray area, inconsistent and unfair.

It's a crap shoot as to whether the LEO's 'professional tolerance' is going to hang you, or free you.

As the speed limits themselves are often inconsistant and unfair, why should enforcement any different?

Its an attempt to place hard limits on an inexact act.

What is safe for one driver / vehicle combination is unsafe for another. Certain areas set limits on the conservative side. Others are a lot more liberal. I thank officer's for showing what discretion they can!

[upflying]

Can not speed in a police car in my town. People call the department or even get pulled by the highway patrol and then call the department. You get a piece of paper put in your file, where it could hurt for a promotion etc.......If you get another paper within a year you get suspended. A third fired. It's funny on the interstate when going the speed limit. Get the "stacking" affect when I can see the traffic for miles behind me cause they are scared to pass. Outstanding!!! Some departments go by the book. We get in trouble for using bad words...............

Many agencies are now installing GPS hardware in patrol vehicles. This not only helps locate the closest patrol vehicle to an emergency, it also keeps track of the officer's speed. The days of speeding LEO vehicles could be numbered. BTW John, how do you not speed if you are trying to catch up to a speeder? Do you go to urgent calls at exactly the speed limit? Some routine patrol could involve speeding. Does that mean you have to use lights and siren everytime you drive over the speed limit? Some agencies require supervisor approval to operate "code 3". If the Florida Highway Patrol wrote you a speeding ticket while you are on duty, how would that case be handled if you contested the ticket in front of a judge you know?

[smiller]

And therein lies the problem............

 

This confirms that the enforcement of speeding laws is a gray area, inconsistent and unfair.

It's a crap shoot as to whether the LEO's 'professional tolerance' is going to hang you, or free you.

As the speed limits themselves are often inconsistant and unfair, why should enforcement any different?

Its an attempt to place hard limits on an inexact act.

What is safe for one driver / vehicle combination is unsafe for another. Certain areas set limits on the conservative side. Others are a lot more liberal. I thank officer's for showing what discretion they can!

Absolutely. An officer's 'professional tolerance' isn't ever going to cite you for going at or under the limit, only perhaps provide a warning instead of a citation if in the officer's judgement you were not being unsafe even though technically over the limit. Since no one's ever going to raise speed limits the officer's discretion is the best tool you have (by 'tool' I mean that if you ride safely and responsibly in all other ways this might work to your favor and you'll get cut some slack if you are a little over the limit) and I wouldn't complain about it. Would you rather have the alternative?

[David]

My last ticket (about 5 years ago) was for 6 mph over.