Carry a Pocket Knife? You're About to Become a Felon . . .

[Mike]

Customs and Border Patrol has proposed a rule change that would alter the decades-long definition of "switchblade." Any folding knife capable of being opened with one hand would be reclassified as a switchblade and, therefore, illegal to import. Additionally, since many state agencies and courts rely on CBP's definition, there is a significant chance that your handy Gerber--previously viewed as perfectly legal--would now become a contraband item. For more info, click here.

[russell_bynum]

Customs and Border Patrol has proposed a rule change that would alter the decades-long definition of "switchblade." Any folding knife capable of being opened with one hand would be reclassified as a switchblade and, therefore, illegal to import. Additionally, since many state agencies and courts rely on CBP's definition, there is a significant chance that your handy Gerber--previously viewed as perfectly legal--would now become a contraband item. For more info, click here.

 

Lovely.

 

I can open my Swiss Army Knife with one hand.

 

The good news is, this will keep criminals from having dangerous Swiss Army Knives since we all know that criminals are very mindful of weapons laws.

[Dave McReynolds]

This is ridiculous. I have a Benchmade pocket knife that opens easily with one hand. It is the favorite pocket knife I have ever had. It has a carbon composite handle and about a 3" blade, so is very lightweight. I got it back in my rockclimbing days, so I could hold onto a rock with one hand and open the knife and cut away old rotten slings or whatever with the other. My usual lifespan for a pocketknife until I lose it is 3-4 years, but I love this one so much that I have been extra careful and have had it now for almost 10 years, I guess. Hardly a day goes by that I don't end up using it for 3-4 things. It would really bother me to have to get rid of it, or alternatively worry about carrying it.

[Ken H.]

Being a bit of an alarmist aren’t you Mike? (Or that website kniferights.org is at any rate.)

 

If you follow the link you posted you will also find this link –

 

Download the 63 page CPB document and read it yourself.

 

Which if read, clearly says the common pocket knife is NOT subject to 19 CFR PART 177.

 

Th jist of the reply is – "...Upon further review, however, we have now determined that the subject knives are not switchblades within the meaning of 19 CFR 12.95(a)(1) because they do not meet the criteria therein, i.e., they do not open automatically by hand pressure applied to a button or device in the handle, nor do they open automatically by operation of inertia, gravity, or both. We find additionally that the subject knives have a blade style designed for a primary utilitarian use within the meaning of 19 CFR 12.95©."

 

[beemerman2k]

Hey, anything to make the country safe from those dangerous knife owners :smile:

 

Being a bit of an alarmist aren’t you Mike? (Or that website kniferights.org is at any rate.)

 

If you follow the link you posted you will also find this link –

 

The problem, Ken, is at least two-fold:

 

1) How many people are going to fully read this document and know exactly what it refers to, and more importantly...

 

2) How many law enforcment officials are going to read that document and therefore know when to apply the policy?

 

What I predict will happen is that guards will simply apply the rule: if it's a knife, it is not allowed.

 

Now what can the average person do? Comply, or go through hell to fight for his/her rights, at the cost of being at the mercy of the guard in question.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

The Cricket or the Juice are always on my person except when I fly. One of the two customs in the middle are usually in my tank bag or panniers.

 

That kind of stuff pisses me off though. I have a number of folders that can easily be opened with one hand. Just a flick of the wrist really. I'm not a criminal but, it seems the lawmakers are trying to turn me into one.

[rob1100r]

I guess I'll just have to carry a sharp rock! (Until THAT gets outlawed)

 

By the way, here is the coolest little pocket knife ever, the Gerber EAB:

 

http://www.rockynational.com/5544_22-41830_Gerber_New_EAB_Pocket_Knife_.html

 

 

 

[Kathy R]

I can't open a box of matches with one hand, let alone my teeny, tiny, pocket knife. I'm safe and so is the world.

[AZKomet]

Customs and Border Patrol has proposed a rule change that would alter the decades-long definition of "switchblade." Any folding knife capable of being opened with one hand would be reclassified as a switchblade and, therefore, illegal to import. Additionally, since many state agencies and courts rely on CBP's definition, there is a significant chance that your handy Gerber--previously viewed as perfectly legal--would now become a contraband item. For more info, click here.

 

 

Hmmmm....more laws?? Geeez!

 

Funny as the Mrs. traveled to a few countries with me in 05. All the while she had her trusty nail file in her purse. It wasn't until we were leaving the Australian Outback that she was confronted and threatened with a fine!!!!!! Absolutely hilarious...a nail file. So I guess the switchblade is out of the question now for her purse...

[Ken H.]

1) How many people are going to fully read this document and know exactly what it refers to, and more importantly...

 

2) How many law enforcment officials are going to read that document and therefore know when to apply the policy?

Neither is likely.

 

But that’s not how it works. Statues/regulations are distilled down to policies, which are broken out to manuals and procedures, which become training.

 

Hardly anybody reads the actual laws on, well, most anything. Nor is everyone left to their own interpretation of them. But by-and-large they all get enforced correctly. And of they don’t; there’s a system to correct that too.

 

To say that this issue, which the DHS is quite clear about, is going to lead to arbitrary confiscation of all pocket knifes is a stretch, at best. Conspiracy buffs’ paranoia would be more accurate.

 

[Lets_Play_Two]

Now we are going to have a shortage of pocket knifes with holes in the blade or thumbstuds!!!

 

Of course, we in Florida are very lucky because we have a resident maker of switchblades...Microtech!! No need to import and it is legal to buy them.

[Boone60]

My favorite little kinfe is a Spyderco.

 

[SANTA]

A Felon:

 

after 911 my spyerdco should not be able to travel, but by chance and accident it actually ended up going though the scanning system unharmed and traveled with me in cattle... i mean coach class, not so sure it could get through the new machines today...

[Mike]

Being a bit of an alarmist aren’t you Mike? (Or that website kniferights.org is at any rate.)

 

If you follow the link you posted you will also find this link –

 

Download the 63 page CPB document and read it yourself.

 

Which if read, clearly says the common pocket knife is NOT subject to 19 CFR PART 177.

 

Th jist of the reply is – "...Upon further review, however, we have now determined that the subject knives are not switchblades within the meaning of 19 CFR 12.95(a)(1) because they do not meet the criteria therein, i.e., they do not open automatically by hand pressure applied to a button or device in the handle, nor do they open automatically by operation of inertia, gravity, or both. We find additionally that the subject knives have a blade style designed for a primary utilitarian use within the meaning of 19 CFR 12.95©."

 

Ken--

 

I haven't read through the whole 63 page document--actually, I just skimmed most of it. However, the portion your citing sounds like one of the previous rulings they intend to rescind through the new rule. If you'll give the page where this appears I'll look at it.

 

The gist of the proposal is that the CBP would reinterpret the statute defining "switchblade" to include any knife that can be opened with one hand. To this point in time, their decisions have adopted a fairly narrow reading of the statute that has permitted knives that do not incorporate a button in the handle (the classic switchblade) to be be imported, even if those knives were capable of being opened with one hand.

 

Personally, this change seems fairly pointless, in the sense that many pocketknives would be deemed contraband that are in common use by outdoorsmen, tradesmen, and just plain ol' folks who carry a pocketknife. A weird and senseless intrusion.

 

Of course, CBP's rule only affects the importation of knives directly. However, many state and local laws, agencies, and courts look to the federal interpretation of the law for guidance. The concern is not only over the immediate effect, but the effect over time.

 

 

[Mike]

Ken--

 

I think you're looking at a past ruling, which is exactly what the new rule would overturn. Could you give me a citation, so I can look at it?

 

Being a bit of an alarmist aren’t you Mike? (Or that website kniferights.org is at any rate.)

 

If you follow the link you posted you will also find this link –

 

Download the 63 page CPB document and read it yourself.

 

Which if read, clearly says the common pocket knife is NOT subject to 19 CFR PART 177.

 

Th jist of the reply is – "...Upon further review, however, we have now determined that the subject knives are not switchblades within the meaning of 19 CFR 12.95(a)(1) because they do not meet the criteria therein, i.e., they do not open automatically by hand pressure applied to a button or device in the handle, nor do they open automatically by operation of inertia, gravity, or both. We find additionally that the subject knives have a blade style designed for a primary utilitarian use within the meaning of 19 CFR 12.95©."

[rkd]

Conspiracy buffs’ paranoia would be more accurate.

Damn, now I hafta buy pocket knives to go along with my shelves of ammunition ... Guess I'll have to throw out some of that 30-year old freeze-dried cheese spread to make room.

[mbelectric]

Conspiracy buffs’ paranoia would be more accurate.

Damn, now I hafta buy pocket knives to go along with my shelves of ammunition ... Guess I'll have to throw out some of that 30-year old freeze-dried cheese spread to make room.

 

 

Exactly.

 

Let's all get twisted over something that really doesn't matter. And run out and buy a bunch because we think Uncle Sam will deprive us of our right to bear.....knives. It's paranoia people.

 

I don't carry knives on planes, trains, or automobiles. I use them for work.

 

Doubt I'd get stopped at work. And don't care.

 

Nothing here people, move along...

 

MB>

[russell_bynum]

Conspiracy buffs’ paranoia would be more accurate.

Damn, now I hafta buy pocket knives to go along with my shelves of ammunition ... Guess I'll have to throw out some of that 30-year old freeze-dried cheese spread to make room.

 

 

Exactly.

 

Let's all get twisted over something that really doesn't matter.

 

Doesn't matter? I've had a "knife that you can open with one hand" with me at all times since High School. The exception, of course, is post 9/11 flights, but other than that, I'm carrying a knife. I use my knife nearly every day for everything from opening the mail to popping the battery compartment cover off the TV remote to change batteries.

 

If this goes through and you can't import "knives that can be opened with one hand", that's one thing. We can still buy from US manufacturers. If, as Mike suggests (I don't know if anyone's noticed over the last zillion years that Mike's been here, but he isn't prone towards knee-jerk reactions and hairbrained paranoia.) other agencies are likely to follow, then that's a real problem.

[lawnchairboy]

careful, using sarcasm to describe reality is not well tolerated by some around here it seems... especially when on a weapons thread....

[DavidEBSmith]

I haven't read through the whole 63 page document--actually, I just skimmed most of it.

 

Well, Jeebus, if even you can't get through it and figure out what it says . . .

 

From what I skimmed, some of the knives mentioned were definitely spring-assisted - you open them 30 degrees and a spring snaps them to full open. Sounds like a switchblade to me, and an attempt to get around the law. The ones I'm not clear about are the Gerber knives, which sound like pretty standard one-hand-open folding knives, but maybe there's something else happening with them.

 

I have to say, despite the hysteria from the site that this document came from (well, it worked for ammo sales), I have a hard time believing that the numerous large companies that manufacture folding knives with an opening lever on the blade will just allow their products to be banned without a bit of a lobbying (or litigating) effort.

[Vicious_Cycler]

Well, there goes my Dukes of Hazard Buck 110 folding hunter I've had for lo these many years .

[Mike]

I haven't read through the whole 63 page document--actually, I just skimmed most of it.

 

Well, Jeebus, if even you can't get through it and figure out what it says . . .

 

Well, in an effort to outskim you, I went back and found the quote that Ken was referring to. It's actually an excerpt from one of the CBP's 2004 rulings that the new rule proposes to revoke, so the end result would be to "outlaw" previously approved pocketknives.

 

The language of the Federal Switchblade Act that is in question is this:

 

The term “switchblade knife” means any knife having a blade which opens automatically—

(1) by hand pressure applied to a button or other device in the handle of the knife, or

(2) by operation of inertia, gravity, or both.

 

CBP has long adhered to the letter of the law, and spring-assisted opening mechanisms or knives with lugs on the blades that permit them to be flicked open with a thumb were not viewed by CBP as violative of the federal law. The proposed revocation of the letters that previously approved of these types of knives would presumably "outlaw" them from being imported.

 

The next question, of course, is whether the CBP's stance would have any impact on federal, state, or local enforcement of either the federal law itself or state laws that adopt or refer to the same verbage as the federal statute. That, of course, lies a bit further down the slippery slope. I acknowledge, though, that a CBP change of heart does not instantly make every knife you or I own illegal. It simply means that like knives can no longer be imported and raises the possibility--some would say likelihood--that previously legal knives that are in the hands of millions of average Joes and Janes would ultimately be outlawed.

 

My personal objection lies in the fact that this is just plain Stoopid, with a capital "S". We have hardly seen a descent into a society of pervasive knife violence, and it strikes me as an effort by politico-bureaucrats to regulate something that not only doesn't need regulating, but is almost wholly innocuous.

 

There is, too, the question of whether these knives may constitute "arms," raising Second Amendment issues.

 

But really, I'm not focused on the basic rights issues as much as I am focused on the inane notion that the government needs to protect us from our own dangerous tendencies to buy knives whose blades can be opened with one hand.

[Mike]

To illustrate the point how damnably stupid the proposed rule change is, this is one of the knives that would be banned from import under CBP's proposed rule:

 

 

SOG's "Power Assist" tool is a "switchblade" in CBP's view since two of the blades utilize SOG's SAT mechanism.

 

. . . with apologies for the multiple posts. This just gets my goat.

[Boone60]

To illustrate the point how damnably stupid the proposed rule change is, this is one of the knives that would be banned from import under CBP's proposed rule:

 

 

SOG's "Power Assist" tool is a "switchblade" in CBP's view since two of the blades utilize SOG's SAT mechanism.

 

. . . with apologies for the multiple posts. This just gets my goat.

 

Well I suppose the CBP folks watched the film No Country For Old Men and learned that the terrorist bomb makers are one-handed, so now this change is absolutely necessary to keep us all safe.

[Patallaire]

I have a Kersaw knife, spring loaded blade, at the Arches in St. Louis the federal government made me put it back on the bike and informed me that on a federal facility I could be arrested for even having it on my person. It is a 3" blade!

[russell_bynum]

I have a Kersaw knife, spring loaded blade, at the Arches in St. Louis the federal government made me put it back on the bike and informed me that on a federal facility I could be arrested for even having it on my person. It is a 3" blade!

 

But what we REALLY need, is MORE government!

[4wheeldog]

I have a Kersaw knife, spring loaded blade, at the Arches in St. Louis the federal government made me put it back on the bike and informed me that on a federal facility I could be arrested for even having it on my person. It is a 3" blade!

 

But what we REALLY need, is MORE government!

 

When I was still working, for a city in CA, personnel came out with a weapons policy. We were forbidden such things as having ammunition, let alone firearms, in our vehicles. The hunter types had shotgun shells rolling around on the floor of their pickups.

 

The one that frosted me was a limit of 2 1/4" on the blade length of any knife. Kind of hard on steak barbeques, but really hard on those of us involved in the trades, who carried a real folding knife, and/or multitools. Discussing it with the personnel director got me nowhere. I did point out that, if I wanted a deadly weapon, a large screwdriver was more deadly than a little bitty pocket knife.

[russell_bynum]

I have a Kersaw knife, spring loaded blade, at the Arches in St. Louis the federal government made me put it back on the bike and informed me that on a federal facility I could be arrested for even having it on my person. It is a 3" blade!

 

But what we REALLY need, is MORE government!

 

When I was still working, for a city in CA, personnel came out with a weapons policy. We were forbidden such things as having ammunition, let alone firearms, in our vehicles. The hunter types had shotgun shells rolling around on the floor of their pickups.

 

The one that frosted me was a limit of 2 1/4" on the blade length of any knife. Kind of hard on steak barbeques, but really hard on those of us involved in the trades, who carried a real folding knife, and/or multitools. Discussing it with the personnel director got me nowhere. I did point out that, if I wanted a deadly weapon, a large screwdriver was more deadly than a little bitty pocket knife.

 

Yep. But the flipside is...if someone had wanted to bring an 18" machette in to hack everyone to pieces, or if they wanted to bring a shotgun in to kill their boss, they couldn't because now it's against the rules to bring weapons to work.

 

This would be funny except for the fact that we continue to elect people who do this to us.

[philbytx]

Damn!

My trusty Leatherman will be next

[Calvin (no socks)]

When they pry it from my cold dead hands.... er..Can I have a Mulligan on that one?