Metal Filings in Transmission

[Crisis? What Crisis?]

The bike is a 1999 rt1100 with about 90,000 km (55,000 miles). I have had the bike for two years and have always had some minor oil weeping from the rubber boot in front of the FD. Decided to change both gear oils (last done about 12,000 km ago when I got the bike)

 

Changed the FD oil and the magnetic drain plug was mostly clean (just some dust - which I understand is normal).

 

The transmission oil plug, however, was covered in small filings (more like little specs). Since I forgot to warm up the bike first, I filled it with oil, went for a 1/2 hr ride and drained the gear oil again while it was still warm. Now bigger filings were coming out with the oil and also stuck to the plug. The biggest were about 1/2" long, very thin metal.

 

Filled it with BMW recommended oil and went for a ride. Felt good, but while in 4th gear and passing a car, I felt a hiccup and heard a clunk (similar perhaps to hitting a pothole - but it was a smooth road). I feared the worst, pulled in the clutch a slowed to a stop. Bike pulled away normally; I went through all gears with no problem.

 

How big of a problem do I have?

 

Larry

[jcguin]

Problem? What Problem?

 

I think we all feel things in the road that are not there. I know I have. You hit a small rock at just the right angle and it can feel like the grand canyon.

 

When you say 1/2 inch, do you mean solid 1/2 inch or fuzz 1/2 inch long. Big difference. Pictures are always helpful.

 

Jim

 

[smiller]

Pictures... we need pictures...

[Crisis? What Crisis?]

I did not take pictures (even though at the time I thought I should but was in too much of hurry.:-( )

 

The peices were definately solid, not fuzz or dust. Shiny silver thin slices. Does that help?

 

Any advice from the gurus here would be very much appreciated.

 

Larry

[boatzo]

 

Larry did it look like this?

 

Look Jim, I finally posted a full size picture, guess I am not too old after all to learn new tricks

[Crisis? What Crisis?]

 

Larry did it look like this?

 

 

Yes, boatzo, that looks very familiar.

And thanks for posting, I was about to screen my 4 litre jug of old oil for the filings, clean them and take pictures - thanks for saving me from that job

 

Since you appear to have had the same issue, do you know what the problem/solution is?

 

thanks!

 

 

 

 

[jcguin]

Look Jim, I finally posted a full size picture, guess I am not too old after all to learn new tricks

 

You go Bill! Your officially "Web Savvy" now.

 

Jim

[smiller]

Since you appear to have had the same issue, do you know what the problem/solution is?

The transmission will have to be disassembled and inspected in order to determine what the problem is. If the debris is the remains of the wave washer then it will need to be replaced.

[boatzo]

Yes, boatzo, that looks very familiar.

And thanks for posting, I was about to screen my 4 litre jug of old oil for the filings, clean them and take pictures - thanks for saving me from that job

 

Since you appear to have had the same issue, do you know what the problem/solution is?

 

thanks!

 

 

 

 

Larry, This just showed up for me too. There was a previous thread on this. As Seth says, it may be part of a wave washer, but we really don't know. I am in the process of making an appointment to get it taken care of. It is More than I think I can do myself. Good luck.

[Crisis? What Crisis?]

I take it this means removal of the final drvie, swingarm, and transmission? I just read jcquin's thread on his tranny replacement - yikes, I really hope I don't have to go there!

 

I have a two day ride planned with a bunch of guys two weeks from now - one that I will be leading and have been planning for a long time. Any recommendations on whether to chance it with this tranny or not?

 

 

 

[smiller]

I have a two day ride planned with a bunch of guys two weeks from now - one that I will be leading and have been planning for a long time. Any recommendations on whether to chance it with this tranny or not?

With the obvious disclaimer that no one can give you anything beyond a pure guess, I'd say that if the transmission is experiencing no running problems (no unusual noise, shifts through all gears OK, etc.) then you're probably OK for a while... after all, who knows how long that debris has been sitting in there and you're still on the road. It's a calculated risk but then again so is every trip on a motorcycle.

 

If you do go I'd have a Plan B set up so you don't ruin the trip for any of the others, just in case your luck turns bad. And if any problems or strange behavior does become apparent before the trip then no-go of course.

[kobukan]

I'm curious if anyone knows if/how this is related to the "minor oil weeping from the rubber boot in front of the FD" mentioned in the original post?

 

[smiller]

I'm curious if anyone knows if/how this is related to the "minor oil weeping from the rubber boot in front of the FD" mentioned in the original post?

The only potential relationship there would be if the transmission output shaft seal were leaking.

[Jeepster]

I'm curious if anyone knows if/how this is related to the "minor oil weeping from the rubber boot in front of the FD" mentioned in the original post?

Well short answer it's not. By the way alot of BMW's weep around the FD boot.

TADT- (They All Do That)

Most of this thread is discussing the second part of the OP's thread where he mentions metal on his Trans drain plug,

refilling trans and then finding MORE metal the second time. This is NOT a good thing. The output seal on the trans

Could have been compromised by the destruction of the wave washer but that is not a given until tear-down and inspection.

sorry smiller was faster

[smiller]

The output seal on the trans

Could have been compromised by the destruction of the wave washer but that is not a given until tear-down and inspection.

FWIW I wasn't suggesting that there was necessarily any relationship between the problem that produced the metal and a leaking output seal, only responding to kobukan's question and noting that a leaking seal (not uncommon) could end up in some oil collecting in the boot.

[kobukan]

By the way alot of BMW's weep around the FD boot.

TADT- (They All Do That)

 

Is this most commonly related to the output seal on the trans or the seal at the front of the final drive?

[smiller]

Is this most commonly related to the output seal on the trans or the seal at the front of the final drive?

Both cause it, I don't know if anyone knows whether one is much more common than the other.

 

One way to tell them apart is to look up into the paralever housing (swingarm) with a flashlight. If you see oil wetness leading all the way down the housing then you have a transmission output shaft seal leak. If the oil is confined only to the boot or very end of the housing then the leak is from the final drive input shaft seal. Neither problem should be particularly worrisome if the amount of collected oil is small (a few tablespoons) as this is indeed very common.

[Jeepster]

The output seal on the trans

Could have been compromised by the destruction of the wave washer but that is not a given until tear-down and inspection.

FWIW I wasn't suggesting that there was necessarily any relationship between the problem that produced the metal and a leaking output seal, only responding to kobukan's question and noting that a leaking seal (not uncommon) could end up in some oil collecting in the boot.

Sorry I was in no way trying to disparage your answer. I took a while to type my answer to kobukan's question and when it was posted I saw that you had already anwered him.

Hence my edit at the end "smiller was faster"

[smiller]

No worries, I didn't take it that way. Was just clarifying.

[flars]

"Is this most commonly related to the output seal on the trans or the seal at the front of the final drive"...

Oil at the final drive boot is 'almost always' from the FD itself, not from the transmission output seal. (I say 'almost always' because someone will jump in and argue the point.) I also say 'almost always' because 'almost everyone' has oil from the fd seep from the final drive boot at one time or the other. Mine has been doing it off and on for the last 80,000 miles (the bike has 135,000 miles on it right now). And 'almost everyone' just wipes it off and ignores it. That said, if you are bored some morning, just remove the straps holding the rubber boot to the swingarm, pull the boot away from the swingarm end, and look at the bottom of the swingarm to see if there is a trail of oil coming from the front.

BTW - I just use a couple of plastic wire ties linked together to reseal the boot to the swing arm. Sometimes I have a couple of long ones that I can use just two of. Usually I have to link three of them together. Again, this method has worked just fine for the last 5 years.

[boatzo]

 

Larry did it look like this?

 

 

REmember this??? I had a very nice visit with Anton about this problem. Good that I stopped riding when I did. The pieces were from the input shaft bearing cover (the metal piece that holds the balls in the bearing case) The next bad part was the input gear where it rides against the bearing. Fortunately, that was all that needed to be replaced, but had I not addressed it when I did, it would have been a disaster.

 

Many thanks for all the input on this and especially to Anton for great work. I am riding again.

[E30TECH]

 

Larry did it look like this?

 

 

REmember this??? I had a very nice visit with Anton about this problem. Good that I stopped riding when I did. The pieces were from the input shaft bearing cover (the metal piece that holds the balls in the bearing case) The next bad part was the input gear where it rides against the bearing. Fortunately, that was all that needed to be replaced, but had I not addressed it when I did, it would have been a disaster.

 

Many thanks for all the input on this and especially to Anton for great work. I am riding again.

 

He must have been talking about your bike being on the lift while I had my trans there. He changed the input shaft on mine. I had him change the in/output shaft bearings and all the seals while he had it apart. Shifts a lot smoother now.

[smiller]

The pieces were from the input shaft bearing cover (the metal piece that holds the balls in the bearing case) The next bad part was the input gear where it rides against the bearing. Fortunately, that was all that needed to be replaced, but had I not addressed it when I did, it would have been a disaster.

Another one bites the dust. Very common problem, all M97's see it sooner or later. The lesson is when you get the chocolate gear oil or the metal bits then get your rear input shaft bearing replaced before you lose the entire shaft and maybe the case.

[boatzo]

E30,

 

That was probably mine. I first thought about taking the tranny out myself and sending it to Anton, but after studying the procedure I elected to have him do the R&R and check everything else at the same time. It shifts smoother than it ever did now. Anton is DA MAN !!

[boatzo]

Seth,

 

I never got the chocolate gear oil. It was as clear as could be, but I sure did have the metal pieces. I have some piece of mind now and happy to be on the road again.