R1150RT Non start ?cured?

[Phil50]

Apologies for this being so long, I may be telling you irrelevant things but I don't know what is and what isn't relevant.

 

I've reported an intermittent non start problem here previously and have just had another episode. I just thought I'd write it up to see if it rings any bells with anyone that will maybe lead to a final answer.

 

After a short ride, perhaps 40 miles, my bike was running really smooth, I pulled up outside my gate stopped the engine and put the bike in 1st gear on the side stand, there's a slight slope towards the gate. I re-started the bike once I'd opened the gate and pulled up outside my garage. The door was shut, off the bike again onto the side stand in neutral, engine off and round to open the door. There's a slight slope up and a little bump I have to go over so I started the bike again and trundled forward on very low revs (should have had more revs and feathered the clutch but I wasn't thinking). Anyway as I was going over the bump I stalled the engine. Feet down to stop her rolling back, I push the starter button and she turns over fine but does not start.

 

Anyway I pushed the bike into the garage and tried to start it again, then again this morning. No go!

 

I pulled a coil and put in an old plug and turned the engine over, the spark is fine.

 

Pulled fuse 5 for 30 seconds and did a reset.

 

Pulled the tupperware off the left hand side and pulled the injector out. In order to get at this I removed the air tube off of the air filter and therefore the top off the filter. Anyway when I turned over the engine at first there was no fuel being injected, I fiddled with the wire and got and intermittent squirt, then a bit more, turned the engine over again and the injector started pulsing and the RH cylinder fired. I put the injector back and it started first time. I've put back the air filter top etc and it still starts first time.

 

I suspect that my fiddling with the injector wire may have been a coincidence to the result, maybe not. Or perhaps fiddling with it affected something else rather than a specific problem with the wire to the injector. My reason for thinking this is the fact that the RH pot fired once the LH started injecting. It felt like neither was working before I fiddled with the wire to the LH one.

 

Any ideas. Thanks

 

Phil

 

 

 

 

[T__]

Phil, being a mechanical beast ANYHING is possible.. I have my doubts that fooling with that injector wire had anything to do with it starting but without farther testing that is more of a guess than a fact..

 

You are doing the correct thing by testing different parts of the system right after a shutdown..

 

You have verified spark so that is pretty well identified..

 

You have identified no fuel injection.. (but is that no injector power,, or no injector pulse,, or no fuel pressure to the injector)

 

Next move (after a stall) is to place an injector test LED or voltmeter across the injector connector & see if the injector is trying to cycle during engine cranking,, if it is,, then test for fuel pressure TO the injector.. If the injector is cycling then the Motronic is probably getting the injector signal & sending a proper pulse output.. That would also tell you that you have proper voltage TO the injector..

 

If this could happen on the road at some time maybe now is the time make up a jumper harness that plugs into the injector connector & run that up & out of the fairing panel.. That way you have a test pig tail already out in the open for quick injector testing.. You can also see what a proper injector signal looks like as you can check it on a proper starting/running engine..

 

Twisty

 

[Phil50]

You have identified no fuel injection.. (but is that no injector power,, or no injector pulse,, or no fuel pressure to the injector)

 

Next move (after a stall) is to place an injector test LED or voltmeter across the injector connector & see if the injector is trying to cycle during engine cranking,, if it is,, then test for fuel pressure TO the injector.. If the injector is cycling then the Motronic is probably getting the injector signal & sending a proper pulse output.. That would also tell you that you have proper voltage TO the injector..

 

Hi Twisty,

 

I've done some more testing as the bike failed to start again this afternoon. The only things I had disturbed were the left side injector wire and the wire that connects to the temperature probe on top of the air filter.

 

I checked the voltage at the injector with my volt meter and it was reading zero. Now I guess that I need to find out why there's no current to the injectors.

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[T__]

Phil, I don’t have a real wire diagram on the UK 1150 so about all I can do is guess here..

 

Can you hear the fuel pump run for a few seconds when (every time) you turn the key on? That could help pinpoint the power interruption place..

 

The first thing that comes to mind is the fuel pump relay so maybe start there..

 

Maybe check ALL the fuses for possible oxidation or contact problems..

 

 

Twisty

 

[Ham]

I'd check any wires related to the sidestand cutoff. Maybe the little bump jarred one of the wires off. I'd clean the connectors too, while I'm down there. Good luck and let us know how it goes.

[Phil50]

I just put my battery back on, having made it flat trying to get my bike going the other day, I decided to give it an off bike charge. Tried to start the bike eventually it fired but only on the right side. I pulled the LH injector and no fuel pulsing, voltage meter reading zero.

 

I guess that this means that whatever other problems the bike has it must have one that just effects the LH injector. That is saying wiring problem to me.

 

I'm getting to the point where loading it into my trailer and taking it to the dealer is seeming like a really good idea. Over this long weekend I'll try and trace the problem. If not its going on the trailer on Wednesday.

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[philbytx]

Phil,

I know you said the injector was inactive but did you have a spark on the LH plug???

 

If you didn't have a spark or injector, it could well be a failure of one of the HE sensors!

 

 

 

[Phil50]

I know you said the injector was inactive but did you have a spark on the LH plug???

 

If you didn't have a spark or injector, it could well be a failure of one of the HE sensors!

 

Hi Phil,

 

Since you posted this I've read around on the subject and the symptoms definitely fit my problem. I can't rule out HE failure as I've not been checking for spark and injector pulse at the same time. I've been doing the traditional trouble shooting routine of checking the easiest thing first and ruling them out one at a time.

 

I read somewhere not to have an injector pulsing while checking for spark unless I wanted an external combustion engine

 

In the UK we have a long weekend, Monday is "May Day" so I'll speak to the dealer on Tuesday. I have the bike booked in on Thursday anyway so will get them to do some checks for me. I'm a member of a recovery service that covers any vehicle I'm in and the cover means they will take me to the nearest repair shop if they can't fix the problem on the road side so I think I'll take a very small risk and see if the bike will get me there.

 

Just a note in case it is at all relevant. I've reported an intermittent problem on this bike before, it used to stall at low revs and lose all power when I cranked it so that the time clock would zero. I thought that was a bad gell battery so bought an Odyssey Battery and have had no problem since until the recent set of problems.

 

Many thanks for all of the suggestions made so far.

 

Cheers

 

Phil

[philbytx]

Howdy Phil

 

Hope you are getting closer to getting yr bike fixed.

As far as checking goes, the easy way to check for that is to simply remove the injector connector from the injector (simple press of a spring clip and pull upwards), then you can test for a spark at plug. I always do this test using 2 plugs. The one from the bike and a new spare, a double-check as it were!

[Phil50]

I thought I'd give some what happened next feedback.

 

Ended up having the bike hauled to the dealership in York. They plugged it in and found an intermittent HES fault. Also noted that the starter sounded a bit rough. They phoned me to let me know their findings and likely cost to replace HES and strip down starter.

 

Later phoned to let me know that starter (on a bike with less than 10K miles) was shot and would need replacing, another £250 plus.

 

I picked the bike up this morning and was treated to a look at the stripped down old starter. There's a plate that had become fused to the armature and burned through and bits of the armature had been ground away. This may explain why I had last year had a problem where on trying to start the electrics shut down completely and the time clock zeroed. Anyway the starter was clearly completely shot.

 

With new HES and starter the bike fires first turn and it seems to run more smoothly and with more power/torque. It feels more like my R1100RT did when it was running really sweetly. So I'm very pleased.

 

I'm going to do another post on the steering bearing etc.

 

Thanks to everyone who made suggestions on this thread. I was expecting a big bill as a result of the conclusions I had come to so it didn't come as a big shock when I flexed my MasterCard this morning.

 

Best wishes

 

Phil