3-9 rear wheel play. What does it mean?

[Armando]

While doing "Spring clean-up" of my 02RT, I noticed that there is a "barely noticeable" wheel play when grabbing the rear tire at 3 and 9 o'clock positions. No play what so ever on 12 and 6. Anything I should be worried about?

[Jim Moore]

How many miles?

[Selden]

Probably not. Find a way to lock the rear brake, then try again. If the movement is still there, it's probably the FD pivot bearings, which are under-designed for this application. If it's barely noticeable, I would ignore it until there is more movement. In theory, you can snug up the bearings by adjusting the inner pivot, but tapered needle bearings are notoriously sensitive to over-tightening.

 

I replaced mine this winter with a JL Paralever Bushing Upgrade Kit from Rubber Chicken. They provide a good explanation of the problem:

 

I developed these after purchasing a ' 93 R100GSPD and hearing stories about Drive Shaft failures. I decided to inspect the Drive Shaft every 2500 miles. The one recurring failure I found was the Final Drive Pivot Bearings, anything from rough bearings to one set actually seized up from shattered rollers. All lubing and preload was per BMW specs.. I will say the bike is not stock and goes where I point it. To my knowledge a roller bearing is designed to roll, not rock back and forth, wearing a groove in the race and a flat on the roller. My Bushings are a direct replacement made from 660 Oilite Bronze that is oil impregnated and self lubricating, matched to a Timken Bearing race. They provide a much larger contact surface than the rollers since the full face of the bushing contacts the race. I have developed and tested these for three years in my GS with great success, the present set has 15k miles with no measurable wear. If any wear does occur it will be negated when adjusting preload. I have also installed a set in my ' 94 K1100LT. I am confident these bushings are a one time investment and you will be happy with their performance.

The outer race on mine was in good shape, but the inner was noticeably brinelled. Replacement requires removing the FD, and takes 2-4 hours, depending on how obsessive you are. Probably the hardest part is aligning the universal joints when re-installing the FD. Consider the bronze bushings a lifetime solution, as they can be tightened if/when they loosen up -- AND, tightening requires only removing the rear wheel, rather than removing the FD.

 

For me, as a relative BMW newbie, an unexpected benefit of doing this work is that I no longer worry about a FD failure, now that I know how (relatively) easy it is to remove the FD.

[ElevenFifty]

There are two possible causes:

1. early signs of final drive failure

2. rear pivot bearing wear

 

Do the test again with the rear brakes engaged. This will lock the hub in position. If you still feel the movement, then you will need to replace the rear pivot bearing and may want to consider these as an alternative.

 

If the movement is the same with the brake on or off, you may want to contact a final drive specialist like Anton Largiader or Tom Cutter. If you determine it is movement in the final drive, get it fixed NOW ... the cost of repair is related to the amount of damage to the gears.

[Woodie]

So...do you want to join the Tail in the Air club?

 

Mines in progress. :O

[T__]

There are two possible causes:

1. early signs of final drive failure

2. rear pivot bearing wear

 

Do the test again with the rear brakes engaged. This will lock the hub in position. If you still feel the movement, then you will need to replace the rear pivot bearing and may want to consider these as an alternative.

 

If the movement is the same with the brake on or off, you may want to contact a final drive specialist like Anton Largiader or Tom Cutter. If you determine it is movement in the final drive, get it fixed NOW ... the cost of repair is related to the amount of damage to the gears.

 

 

 

ElevenFifty, engaged rear brakes is not a sure way to stop hub movement.. The rear caliper floats on it’s sliding pins on the BMW.. The locked caliper will just move sideways along with the brake rotor.. Might change the tilt slightly but there is enough movement around the caliper pins to allow some wheel movement..

 

 

Twisty

 

 

[ElevenFifty]

Don't remember where I got that technique, but it certainly was true on my 1150 ...

[T__]

ElevenFifty, not sure how as the 1150 used a single piston floating rear caliper also.. Might work OK if the rear caliper pins are frozen up (that isn’t that unusual on the older bikes) but if the caliper is free to float on the sliding pins true to design intent the caliper will just move with the brake rotor..

 

 

Twisty

 

[Jerry Duke]

I hate to sound like a preacher for the Church of Re-Torque The Swingarm, but that's the easiest one to re-torque so don't forget to check it first before pulling the FD.

[ianboydsnr]

heat up the inner paralever pin, undo the lock nut, turn the 12mm clockwise a milimeter at the time untill the play stops, have a beer, recheck every 1000 miles.

[Dave C.]

I installed the rubber chicken bushings per the instructions and within 2 thousand miles the bushing were gone . I then replaced them with new BMW bearings and after 2 thousand miles on them they still feel great . The ones I got from BMW were not a needle bearing style more of a roller bearing type.

 

Dave

[Unhofliche_Gesundheit]

re: heat up the inner paralever pin, undo the lock nut,

 

partial hijack - but relevant (and mucho wrenching)

 

can someone explain the intricacies of the final drive hardware removal and reinstallation- specifically with regards to the left hand side 12mm pin and 30mm locknut.

 

is this right (my logic from working on pedal bikes) ?

A. DISASSEMBLY

1/ Left side:

heat up the 30 mm locknut - loosen and remove 30mm locknut- 12 mm will come with it.

put the two on the bench, heat and separate.

2/ right side: heat and remove.

 

B. REASSEMBLY:

clean all threads.

right side:

1/ apply redlocktite, assemble & torque it down (big torque)

left side

2/ apply red lock tight on 'lock nut to swing arm interface'. do not put lock tight on 12mm pin

3/ assembly left side loosly

4/ torque the 12mm pin (small torque)

5/ hold the 12 mm hex pin in place with tool - simultaneously tighten 30 mm locknut with a wrench pretty tight

6/ torque the 30mm locknut to final very tight torque spec (at this point as using 30mm socket cant hold the 12mm at same time)

 

 

 

 

 

[smiller]

That's about it. Clean the threads well before reassembly else it will be difficult to get a good feel when retorquing the adjusting nut. Also I use medium-strength (blue) Loctite as the high-strength stuff will make subsequent disassembly needlessly difficult, and IMO red just isn't necessary in this application (all applicable disclaimers about possible flaming death apply.)

 

Also I suggest tightening the adjusting bolt to provide a slight amount of preload vs. rigorously adhering to the manual's torque spec. I think sub-optimal adjustment of the tapered bearing preload helps contribute to the short life that many experience from the paralever bearings.

[ianboydsnr]

re: heat up the inner paralever pin, undo the lock nut,

 

partial hijack - but relevant (and mucho wrenching)

 

can someone explain the intricacies of the final drive hardware removal and reinstallation- specifically with regards to the left hand side 12mm pin and 30mm locknut.

 

is this right (my logic from working on pedal bikes) ?

A. DISASSEMBLY

1/ Left side:

heat up the 30 mm locknut - loosen and remove 30mm locknut- 12 mm will come with it.

put the two on the bench, heat and separate.

2/ right side: heat and remove.

 

B. REASSEMBLY:

clean all threads.

right side:

1/ apply redlocktite, assemble & torque it down (big torque)

left side

2/ apply red lock tight on 'lock nut to swing arm interface'. do not put lock tight on 12mm pin

3/ assembly left side loosly

4/ torque the 12mm pin (small torque)

5/ hold the 12 mm hex pin in place with tool - simultaneously tighten 30 mm locknut with a wrench pretty tight

6/ torque the 30mm locknut to final very tight torque spec (at this point as using 30mm socket cant hold the 12mm at same time)

 

 

 

 

 

You could do all that if you want to be anal about it, but my method works fine,is relativly quick and only requires 15 mins and a heatgun, a 12mm allen socket and a 30mm spanner, you effectivly tighten the pinnion bearings by a degree at a time, untill the play is gone.

[Jerry Duke]

ianboydsnr, my concern with your method is you didn't remove and clean the locktite from the threads. Wouldn't that throw the torque setting off?

Am I missing something?

[Unhofliche_Gesundheit]

missing something?

indeed both locktite and torque are conspicuously missing from ianboydsnr's method.

replaced presumably by beer!

[Armando]

Thanks for all the replies. The bike only has 26k on it. Samsar is hosting a tech day in a couple of weeks. It will be a good opportunity to check the play I feel against other bikes to see if i have a problem. If I do, then the options seem to be:

 

1 re-torque the swing arm

2 change pivot bearings

3 get FN looked at

 

Thanks all.

[Jim Moore]

Hey Unholfliche,

 

Read my tale of woe before you start on that project. it may save you a little aggro.

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=460597&page=1

[Selden]

Thanks for all the replies. The bike only has 26k on it. Samsar is hosting a tech day in a couple of weeks. It will be a good opportunity to check the play I feel against other bikes to see if i have a problem. If I do, then the options seem to be:

 

1 re-torque the swing arm

2 change pivot bearings

3 get FN looked at

This sounds perfect, especially the part about waiting for a tech day. I'm betting that, at 26,000 miles, #1 is all you need to do -- if that -- and assuming you mean re-torquing the pivot bearings. When I started looking into this, I thought I was going to have to work on the bearings at the front of the swingarm. Apparently, these almost never have problems.

 

Recently someone here posted a useful tip: bring a digital camera along, and take pictures before you start changing things.

 

[Armando]

Not sure what I mean by re-torquing the swing arm. I just attempted to summarize the responses. If it gets to the point of having to do any work, I will follow up with you all.

 

Thanks

[flars]

"..4/ torque the 12mm pin (small torque).."

should be:

4/ apply loctite to 12 mm pin and torque to correct setting

4/a allow loctite on 12 mm pin to dry.

 

If you use red loctite, the 12 mm pin will not move when you put the locknut on. Blue loctite will probably act the same, but since the specs call for red, I use red.

 

Caution - there are two (or more) types of red loctite. One requires VERY high temperature to remove. The other requires considerably less heat.

[Unhofliche_Gesundheit]

re: Hey Unholfliche, Read my tale of woe before you start on that project. it may save you a little aggro.

 

Hey Jim - thanks I recall that thread well. In part prompted my question above about how to deal with the fasteners.

 

Thanks Flars - 3 showstoppers exposed.

a) so locktite goes on all the fasterners (not 2 out of 3).

b) by waiting for the pin to dry to can tighten the 30mm nut without altering the 12mm setting. nice trick.

c) get the right red locktite.

 

 

 

 

 

[SAAB93driver]

Photo illustrated R&R of final drive here in case it helps.

 

http://advwisdom.hogranch.com/Wisdom/Final%20Drive%20R&R.html

 

 

[ianboydsnr]

ianboydsnr, my concern with your method is you didn't remove and clean the locktite from the threads. Wouldn't that throw the torque setting off?

Am I missing something?

 

It would, but my method does not require a torque wrench, or cleaning the threads of the threadlock, in fact your unlikely to torque them up to the right spec, without using new parts.

 

 

missing something?

indeed both locktite and torque are conspicuously missing from ianboydsnr's method.

replaced presumably by beer!

 

Your right, I have never used a torque wrench when doing the paralever bearings, prefer to use the feel method, I do use a bit of threadlock when replacing the bearings, and I mark the positions of the pins and locknut using tippex paint,not had one mooved in 10 years of oilhead ownership.

[Dewayne Harkov]

I thought the bushing replacement for the pivot bearings was the "hot set-up" as the bearings all seem to go out. Did you get any answers from the vendor? I was planning on changing mine to the bushings. First I've heard of an issue.???? Anyone else changeover and the result? TIA.

[Dave C.]

Did not bother to call. Figured it would not do any good so why waste my time. I read some other board (Adv Rider?) and read about some others besides me having the same issue. I got about 80K miles on the original bearings and now it feels great.

 

Dave