Gathering data for possible 09 RT purchase -- a Q for ESA owners

[mneblett]

Hi, gang -- newbie (to R12RT's) Q:

 

I have read a *bunch* of Hexhead forum pages and ran several searches, but was surprised to not find an answer to a basic ESA question: How much of a difference in damping is provided between the various modes? (I recognize no one will have a quantitative answer, but a qualitative indication would be most helpful.)

 

So, are the differences between Comfort, Normal and Sport mode significant, or barely noticeable?

 

I recently did a short test drive, and while the road wasn't a big challenge to the suspension, I was surprised that I didn't detect much of a seat-of-the-pants difference between modes. That struck me as odd, because I have a pretty good idea what damping changes feel like (I have a pair of Corvettes with electronic damping control, the system GM/Delphi recently sold to Ferrari for use on their cars, and have done my fair share of adjustable damping set up on other bikes (e.g., Ohlins)).

 

Obviously, I'm asking because I'm trying to decide whether to spring for the $800 ESA package, or stay with the base shocks and pop for a set of aftermarket shocks when the stockers give out (which, given my experience with my '99 R11Rt and '00, '02, '05 and '06 K12LTs, will be within ~15K mi).

 

Again, I apologize if there's already a thread that is on point -- and if there is, I'd appreciate a link to it!

 

Thanx,

Mark

 

 

[T__]

Mark, I can feel the difference in the different modes on the 09 1200RT..You only get dampening control change while moving.. For the spring load change you must be sitting still with the engine running..

 

I usually ride in the comfort setting as sport is too stiff for the roughs roads in my area.. Even when pushing the bike I usually stay in the comfort setting.. Not as much wheel control but not loose enough to be a problem..

 

I like it (the ESA) but not sure I would spend the money to get it again if I could find a loaded bike without it..

 

I do like the rear spring electronic adjustability as I can load the bike up with passenger or gear & just sit on the seat & raise up the spring load without fooling with a wrench under the seat..

 

If you are not going to keep the bike forever think about re-sale as the ESA bikes sell a lot easier..

 

Twisty

 

[Tim Wilson]

I notice the differences in the dampening settings more when riding two-up than solo, but the differences are there. I really appreciate having it for the ease of changing the preload more than for the dampening, although my wife does like the comfort setting on the superslab.

[krussell]

Mark, I can feel the difference in the different modes on the 09 1200RT..You only get dampening control change while moving.. For the spring load change you must be sitting still with the engine running..

 

+1 on my 08 1200RT

 

 

I usually ride in the comfort setting as sport is too stiff for the roughs roads in my area.. Even when pushing the bike I usually stay in the comfort setting.. Not as much wheel control but not loose enough to be a problem..

 

I typically ride in Normal, it just feels 'right' to me.

 

I like it (the ESA) but not sure I would spend the money to get it again if I could find a loaded bike without it..

 

Exactly my thinking as well.

 

I do like the rear spring electronic adjustability as I can load the bike up with passenger or gear & just sit on the seat & raise up the spring load without fooling with a wrench under the seat..

 

It is definitely convenient.

 

If you are not going to keep the bike forever think about re-sale as the ESA bikes sell a lot easier..

 

Excellent point Twisty, I hadn't considered this. I think this would be the case for resale with <20-30k or so, but may be a considered a liability for higher mileage bikes from a replacement / maintenance perspective? I guess new buyers could replace with whatever they want though.

[DMilan]

My .02 worth.

 

I briefly owned an '08 K1200GT.

It was ESA equipped. I almost never ride 2 up so the ride height/preload adjustment was of little value to me personally.On the GT, as far as I am concerned the 3 shock valve/damping settings were

Firm

Too firm

Tooo firm

And yes, I agree with your test ride experience, the difference between steps seemed to be "not so much".

 

My '05RT with standard suspension is much more to my liking.

More comfortable, less harsh, especially the rear suspension. I ride a bit on the pokey side so ultra firm suspension is not needed or appreciated in my world.

 

I have read that on the new '09 K1300GT when equipped with ESA II that now the spring rates can also be adjusted. Not just the ride height and shock valving.

Wonder if they were responding to other similar critisisms. Probably would be more to my liking.

 

ESA II is not available on the '09 RT as far as I'm aware.

 

One last thought... just came to me.

I did test ride an RT with ESA a couple years ago.

On a highway, concrete, with large cracks filled with patch I recall THA THUMP... THA THUMP.... THA THUMP on firm setting.

You could almost hear the tension in the springs.

I switched modes quickly on the fly.

pa pup...... pa pup... pa pup on comfort setting. I really did notice a difference there, mostly the sound, but the ride as well. If that makes any sense.

 

ESA could be alright for some

ESA II might be very nice

Aftermarket could be good... Getting them dialed in/set-up right sounds as if it could be a persnickety endeavor. I've read about things like 20+ damping settings, + rebound settings...

geeeeze, I'd never stop tweakin' with it.

 

Guess I'm happy with my RT as is.

 

This didn't help at all did it?

Sorry

Dmilan

[mneblett]

Thanks very much for the input, folks!

 

At this point, I'm leaning against ESA.

 

I primarily ride one-up (SWMBO has her own R1150GS and R75/5 SWB toaster), so I don't believe I will find much use for the spring pre-load feature (or put another way, for $800, I'm willing to reach in with a pre-load adjusting spanner quite a few times!).

 

And while the variable damping has a lot of "cool tech" appeal, I believe that the $800 would be better applied by installing aftermarket adjustable shocks, as I have no problem having to manually tweak damping settings. I also am concerned with the replacement costs for the ESA shocks -- unlike my Corvettes, which are known to have their magnetic-fluid based shocks last the life of the car, I don't see any reason to believe that the ESA won't wear out like a conventional shock (from what I've gleaned, they *are* conventional shocks, with electric actuators for preload and damping rod adjustment grafted on).

 

Still happy (and most appreciative) to receive further input, but that's where I'm leaning as of now.

 

Thanks again, and stand by for what will no doubt be more Qs!

 

Mark

[Paul Mihalka]

"(or put another way, for $800, I'm willing to reach in with a pre-load adjusting spanner quite a few times!)"

 

Don't even need a spanner. Just turn on a wheel under the seat a couple of times.

 

[smiller]

If you are not going to keep the bike forever think about re-sale as the ESA bikes sell a lot easier..

Excellent point Twisty, I hadn't considered this. I think this would be the case for resale with <20-30k or so, but may be a considered a liability for higher mileage bikes from a replacement / maintenance perspective? I guess new buyers could replace with whatever they want though.

Kind of what I was thinking. If the buyer isn't aware of what an ESA service costs on a higher-mileage bike then they might consider ESA an advantage, otherwise the potential replacement expense might cause them to keep away.

[T__]

Mark, one thing to think about is bike availability.. In my case it was about a wash or maybe even cheaper to buy a bike with the ESA on it..

 

I wanted a fairly loaded bike & all that the dealers ordered in for stock in the accessory package I wanted contained ESA.. If I ordered a bike through the dealer the price would have been more as they were willing to deal quite nicely on a bike they had in stock.. Not willing to deal much on a bike custom ordered in..

 

I guess it depends on the dealer,, how much they are willing to deal on an in-stock bike,, & what you want on the bike for other options..

 

Twisty

 

[steve2]

Had a 1200RT 2005 33,000 mi and now have a RT1200 2007 with 34,000. Both have ESA and since I ride 250-600 mi a trip on all kinds of roads I believe ESA is the way to go. If the shock wears out the aftermarket I go. But nothing is better then pushing a button in the cold mornig and then pushing a button as the day warms up and the shocks react differently. And as I exit the freeway to 2 lane I can push a button. As the day wears on and I'm doing my thing in the curves I push a button. As I get tired and the bottom becomes tired I push a button. And when the better half climbs on I push a button. Now be honest. How many of you out there will get off your bike that many times during a rides and adjust your shock? And I'm talking about spring compression on rear and rebound on FRONT AND rear. It is a real option that really does enhance the ride. It is $800 but where can you buy aftermarket for that price with a tiny button on the handlebar and a read out on the screen.

 

 

[rglassma]

I have owned an '05 RT with ESA for about a year now. I have put 15K miles on it in that time. I ride it mostly in comfort mode when I am not pushing it in the twisties. I bought it second hand so I didn't have a choice.

 

I do feel the difference between comfort, sport and normal for sure. Definately a difference in the preload setting as well.

 

When the shocks wear out, if I still have the bike (I probably will), I will most definately go to Works Performance for replacement of the ESA shocks so I have the feature still with new shocks. I figure the total will be about 1600.00 for the replacement of both shocks. I'll most probably do the installation myself and save money there.

 

The stock replacements are rediculously expensive. I would say at least 3K for both shocks. So, that isn't even an option.. Would I buy them on a new bike?? Maybe, maybe not... If I was looking to save money, no at the time, I probably wouldn't go for it. But, if I didn't have to pay extra, or was able to get a screaming deal, maybe. As long as the aftermarket replacements are available. If the aftermarket replacements were not available, forget it...

 

With 27K miles on the bike, my suspension is still going strong..

[SWB]

Had a 1200RT 2005 33,000 mi and now have a RT1200 2007 with 34,000. Both have ESA and since I ride 250-600 mi a trip on all kinds of roads I believe ESA is the way to go. If the shock wears out the aftermarket I go. But nothing is better then pushing a button in the cold mornig and then pushing a button as the day warms up and the shocks react differently. And as I exit the freeway to 2 lane I can push a button. As the day wears on and I'm doing my thing in the curves I push a button. As I get tired and the bottom becomes tired I push a button. And when the better half climbs on I push a button. Now be honest. How many of you out there will get off your bike that many times during a rides and adjust your shock? And I'm talking about spring compression on rear and rebound on FRONT AND rear. It is a real option that really does enhance the ride. It is $800 but where can you buy aftermarket for that price with a tiny button on the handlebar and a read out on the screen.

 

 

Pretty much agreed. The ride on my 2005 with now 44K miles on it is fresh, maybe like new but I've never had a new bike. All I can say is that it rides like it's on rails in corners fast or slow. At the sport setting on a rough road, it might even remind you of a R11xx bike with worn out shocks, but it doesn't handle like the R11xx. At normal setting, the ride is smooth everywhere except when hitting major pot holes.

 

I like Works Performance shocks, and they have replacements which will work with ESA, so when these shocks go, I'll upgrade to works. However, I love the ESA and would pay extra for it.

[Jack90210]

I bought my '06 used and it's got ESA. Personally I'd rather have Ohlins/Wilburs etc. as I believe the ride quality is significantly better with a set of one of these premium shocks than it is with ESA. True, you do get 'on the fly' adjustability, but for me it's not nearly adjustable enough. "Sport" setting still wallows a bit, and high-speed compression is far too firm. "Comfort" setting is nice on the freeway (it really does soften the smaller bumps relative to "Sport") but I feel that a premium shock could deliver the plushness of this setting with a much greater feeling of control.

 

I have Wilburs on my 1100GS and prefer the suspension on that bike to any setting of the ESA on my 1200RT. However, I will concede that the ride quality with ESA is pretty good. It's just not great.

 

If it were my money I'd get the stock suspension and buy some Wilburs, which also add quite a bit to resale value.

[lvnvbiker]

I've got it on my RT, and I feel that it isn't worth the money. It's a cool gadget, but the comfort is not plush enough IMO. Realy no mater whar the settingis the ride is harsh when hitting bumps, like botts dots or small rises in the road surface and potholes can be downright vicious. A good set of aftermarket shocks are in my future, and I may even go with the Works ESA set that is available after hearing a few decent reports about them.

[TomfromMD]

Re the durability of the ESA suspension, I recall reading that BMW's shock specs are more stringent than for the stock non-ESA units in order to provide a longer service life. As far as the damping difference, I do appreciate the ability to switch to "comfort" to compensate for the badly potholed and under maintained roads I normally encounter, and the "sport" setting is great for the Blue Ridge Parkway & similar well-paved roads. It would be nice, however if there was a 4th, "extra-comfort" setting.

Tom

[lopaca]

I have several friends that have Ohlin shocks and swear they notice the difference between the stock and the Ohlins like night and day. My RT came with ESA. Now, I really like the ability to make the adjustment on the fly and I do notice a difference. I do not ride enough or hard enough in the twistys to really justify giving up the convenience for the better handling, at least at this point. I would imagine, that eventually Ohlin is going to come out with their own ESA replacement product in any event. If not, like I said, I don't ride enough (about 6K/year) to sweat it.

 

Hope that helps. Good luck in your search.

[b34cez]

What I have noticed on changing the ESA adjustment:

 

- while running on highway, on concrete slaps (not asphalt) – a great improvement is going from Sport to Normal;

 

- while running on mountain twisties – although with good asphalt, Normal is better than Sport;

 

- while running on poor road (but with asphalt) – a great improvement going from Normal to Comfort (2up);

 

- braking under Comfort – the bike dives a lot, while braking on Sport – almost no dive;

 

- indeed adjusting from 1 to 2 up is useful, but I would not mind going to manual adjustment.

 

To my taste, I find Sport too stiff if you ride really mountain twisties as it disturbs a bit the neatness of changing from one curve to the other. Sport is good for the highway only. I use Comfort for poor roads.

That being said, I ride 95% on Normal and therefore if I would be looking for a new RT, I would disregard the ESA.

 

[mneblett]

Just a follow-up -- I wanted to thank everyone for the very helpful input on the "ESA or not?" question.

 

In addition to the input, I also had an over-the-weekend extended demo on an ESA-equipped RT. I can now say that I did notice the effect on damping rates, but frankly the differences were not that large. Still, your input and the extended demo were very useful, as I'm now comfortable with picking a bike without regard to whether ESA is installed, i.e., I'm at the point of saying "I'm not thrilled about paying for ESA, but if the only bikes with my other option choices also include ESA, that's ok."

 

Thanks again!

Mark

 

[Indy Dave]

enjoy!! and let us know what you end up with! Whoo Hooo!!

[lopaca]

i.e., I'm at the point of saying "I'm not thrilled about paying for ESA, but if the only bikes with my other option choices also include ESA, that's ok."

 

Very sensible! Exactly how I got mine with it and quite frankly, I use it constantly.

[John in VA]

I bought a used 06 RT with 1500 miles that had ESA. I had come from an 00 RT on which I'd installed Ohlins. ESA couldn't cover up the poor stock shocks. Rebound damping is awful. I found that Normal is mush, Comfort is wallowy mush, and Sport will loosen your tooth fillings unless you're riding pristine, freshly-laid asphalt everywhere. Good suspension should have no need for such gimmicks. With quality shocks, spin a knob for preload and you should be good to go for anything. If I ever spring for a new RT, I'd skip ESA and apply the cost to new Ohlins.

[Don_F]

I bought an ex demo bike with all the extra's fitted. i use ESA constantly and can easily tell if I've set off with it in the wrong mode. Yet I still don't know if I'd pay full price for it. It's expensive.