Very intermitent no run problem

[MASSRTRider]

Hello all, I have a wierd non running problem with my '00 RT, 87k miles. In January '08 while riding on a highway (65-70 MPH) my bike suddenly shut down. It would turn over but not start with the starter button. Before I came to a stop I tried to bump start it in 2nd gear at about 20 MPH and it just skidded the tire and would not start. Got the bike to the shop two days later and it started fine for them and showed no trouble codes and they had no answer. Fast forward to today, some 4000 miles later the bike shut down again. This time I was at low RPMs and the bike shutdown. I initially thought I had just stalled it by running too low RPMs but it would not restart. I called for a trailer to come pick me up. While waiting I tried restarting a number of times but still nothing. I could hear the fuel pump when I turned on the key. After an hour and a half, my ride showed up and for giggles before we tried to push the bike onto the trailer, I thumbed the starter button and it started right up. I tried again an hour later when I got home and again it started. Does anyone have any ideas? It seems to maybe be heat related but I rode all last summer on some very hot days with no problems at all. I don't know if another issue I have had has any connection to this problem but, since I have owned the bike (bought brand new), fairly frequently the engine has stalled when coming to a stop with the clutch pulled in and typically in 2nd or 3rd gear. This has happened perhaps 50 times in 8 years and I have always chaulked it up to needing a tune up and it had always restarted. I am reluctant to ride the bike until I find a cause or to send it to the shop as it has no problems at present. Any thoughts are appreciated.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Hall effect sensor or Hall effect sensor wiring.

 

A parts kit is available from Beemer Boneyard and the repair is pretty simple to accomplish.

[SKYGZR]

Hall effect sensor or Hall effect sensor wiring.

 

Yup..+100 on having a spare on board at all times!! (And the know how and tools to change it out).

[T__]

MASSRTRider, lots of possibilities.. As mentioned the hall sensor would be one of them,, (OR) if you get a vacuum hiss from the fuel tank when opening that or the tank cap is difficult to open after riding then possibly a plugged tank vent or plugged evap canister,, (OR) maybe even the kick stand switch acting up..

 

What does the tac do when you crank it & it won’t start? That can sometimes point a finger to the area of concern..

 

 

Twisty

 

[MASSRTRider]

Thanks for the ideas. I had considered the hall effect sensor but thought that it typically went bad and stayed that way. Is that not necessarily true? As for the fuel I don't believe it is a fuel problem as it is an instant no run situation and fuel problems usually die slowly. I've never had issues with the fuel cap hissing or other venting type problems. As for the tach I did notice that when it won't start, the needle does not move off "0". No bounce, just sits there. Is this a hint to confirm it is the hall effect sensor? The sidestand switch is another thing I thought I could rule out as I have that bypassed and my recollection was that the engine will not turn over with the stand down. Am I remembering correctly? I disabled that two weeks after I got the bike. To bypass the switch I simply spliced the wires together, I may open that up and see if the splice has gone bad as that is very easy to check. I looked up changing the hall effect sensor in my repair manual, I think I'll send it to the shop if that appears to be the most likely issue. Again, thanks for all the input. Hopefully I can get this sorted out quickly and have faith in my baby again. I feel bad for not trusting her, after all she's only stranded me a couple of times in eight long years.

[tallman]

Once the HES begins to act up it is the German version of the Prince (Kaiser?) of Darkness.

I would consider a replacemnt and carrying a spare as part of routine maintenance past xxxxxx miles on those boxers.

 

[outpost22]

Thanks for the ideas. I had considered the hall effect sensor but thought that it typically went bad and stayed that way. Is that not necessarily true?

 

With a bad HES, it is common for the bike to restart once it is cooled down. The replacement of the HES is fairly simple. If you have replaced the alternator belt, you can probably do the HES as it sits directly behind it. In fact it is a good time to replace the alt belt at the same time if you're going to be in there anyway.

 

BMWMick on this forum used to rebuild HES's. You might check with him and see if he has any. I got mine from him.

[MASSRTRider]

Thanks for the help. I think replacing the HES myself is a bit more than I want to bite off, so will call the shop to schedule the work. At least now I don't have to pay them to diagnose the problem. It is great to have access to this wealth of knowledge. I'll have to try and hang out here more often again. I've been away too long. Thanks again.

[smiller]

Yup..+100 on having a spare on board at all times!! (And the know how and tools to change it out).

Failures of the HES pickups themselves are rather rare, the poor reliability reputation of the HES is primarily due to the insulation degradation problem and nothing more. If the insulation has been upgraded with Teflon-insulated wiring then the problem is fixed forever and afterwards there really is no need to carry a spare.

 

 

Thanks for the help. I think replacing the HES myself is a bit more than I want to bite off, so will call the shop to schedule the work. At least now I don't have to pay them to diagnose the problem. It is great to have access to this wealth of knowledge. I'll have to try and hang out here more often again. I've been away too long. Thanks again.

Whoa. If you're going to have a dealer do the work the HES replacement (at list parts and labor prices) is going to be pretty costly and I would make sure that you really have that particular problem before you drop the bucks. The HES is a likely candidate but as Twisty noted not the only one... could be some of the things he mentioned or an intermittent connection in the ignition switch wiring harness (not an uncommon issue in itself.) If you're going to take the bike to a dealer I would let them diagnose the problem rather than specifying an HES replacement if you're not sure that's the problem. Then it will be the dealer's responsibility to do the appropriate work.

[MASSRTRider]

smiller, I see your point about just blindly replacing the HES but seeing as I have no problem at this time having the shop trouble shoot a non problem is going to be many hours of labor in my mind. The HES is original equipment with 87k miles and based on BMW history should be replaced at some point anyway. Is there a test they can perform that lets them know the HES is failing? My thought is to replace the most likely culprit. I have only had this problem twice in 4000 miles/ last 1.5 years and the previous time at the shop they didn't have any answers. It may be time to look into another shop. Thanks again for thoughts and ideas.

[Selden]

The symptoms sure sound like a failing HES, and at 87,000 miles, yours is probably long overdue for replacement.

[smiller]

The HES is original equipment with 87k miles and based on BMW history should be replaced at some point anyway. Is there a test they can perform that lets them know the HES is failing?

Yes, I won't disagree that at 87k on an 1100 it's not a bad idea to replace the HES anyway, and no, there's no reliable test. I had a bad HES and it tested good every which way (even when totally submerged in water!) but ultimately was indeed the cause of my problem (due to degraded insulation.)

 

My comment was only to point out that if the HES isn't really the problem then I'd hate to see you stranded somewhere based on what is the problem (and having to pay for two service sessions, plus towing charges, etc.) so I was just suggesting that you have the dealer attempt to confirm the diagnosis. But yes, replacing the HES and seeing what happens is perhaps a reasonable tack in this particular instance.

[MASSRTRider]

Thanks again, I think I'm going to have the HES replaced and keep my fingers crossed that it was the problem. I've been very lucky with being stranded on this bike (only 3 times and always close to home) and if I have to replace a few parts to make the old girl happy it will be a small price to pay. Thanks again for all the helpful advice. Hopefully I'll get to some events again. I've been wrapped up in car racing for the past couple of years and have neglected my motorcycling needs. See you on the road soon!