Sick of GM threads and GM

[David]

On a personal level, greed is taking, using, more than you need.

 

Then we're all greedy, including you, Ken.

 

I think you all might have better luck talking about ambition rather than greed.

 

Part of my public mission statement reads like this:

 

We will always seek potential clients actively so that we can serve only those who need and want our help; we will charge enough to maintain our core competence without losing our core character; and we will have fun while we provide substantive answers to clients in a sustainable business environment.

 

I sum it up by frequently telling people that I'm in business to make money, first, followed almost inseparably by demanding that I have impactful relationships with clients.

 

Money is not enough in that I'd get bored and feel empty if I wasn't also impacting my clients.

 

And franky, there's really no way to have lasting impact in a consulting relationship UNLESS you charge ridiculous amounts of money, because no one will listen.

 

Money is the currency of respect from a business standpoint. Ethical behavior is the currency of respect at a personal level. The two can easily be combined, and I think some of you assign too direct a connection between making money and being greedy.

 

I think Warren Buffet is a terrific example of making money ethically.

[Matts_12GS]

What he said!

[hootowl]

Is this greed or just good business?

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Goldman_Sachs_tax_rate_drops_to_1218.html

[Whip]

Is this greed or just good business?

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Goldman_Sachs_tax_rate_drops_to_1218.html

 

 

This is what happens when stupid governments do stupid things.

 

I bet Warren Buffet liked the move.

 

 

....is he greedy????????????????????

 

 

 

 

 

[russell_bynum]

I still want a definition of greed????????

The accumulation of wealth for no useful purpose other than for personal satisfaction.

 

Says the guy with the expensive European motorcycle adorned with lots of expensive and completely useless bling.

[Ken H.]

On a personal level, greed is taking, using, more than you need.

Then we're all greedy, including you, Ken.

You know what, I’ll plead guilty to that, no problem. It’s all about perspective isn’t it? The other big challenge is trying to quantify “need.”

 

I don’t think the problem is with “greed” specifically. And what I took exception to was a generalization that greed is the primary human motivator. There are many, many human motivators; greed is just one on a list.

 

I think where the real problem/issue/disagreement lies is in trying to define what excessive greed is. And everyone’s definition is different. What is a morally repugnant to one person is normal acceptable behavior to another. And a role of a successful society is to sort out, through regulations, laws, controls, disincentives, etc. where the balance is. A free market free-for-all will never sort it out because it is an enabler of a ‘do whatever I can get away with’ MO.

 

[russell_bynum]

You said:

There are many, many human motivators; greed is just one on a list.

 

and then:

 

A free market free-for-all will never sort it out because it is an enabler of a ‘do whatever I can get away with’ MO.

 

Only if greed were the primary motivator...which it clearly is not.

[Matts_12GS]

You said:

There are many, many human motivators; greed is just one on a list.

 

and then:

 

A free market free-for-all will never sort it out because it is an enabler of a ‘do whatever I can get away with’ MO.

 

Only if greed were the primary motivator...which it clearly is not.

 

+1

 

Keep going Ken, you're gaining on that tail you're chasing!

[Whip]

'A free market free-for-all will never sort it out'

 

History tells a different story.

 

The market always sorts it out.

 

Just like today.

 

 

[David]

Yes, I think that is the challenge. One man's ambition is another man's greed.

 

Whatever system we come up with should not knock the rough edges off of commerce. The people MOST responsible for our economic success as a nation have been the risk takers who have exploited the gaps, welcomed the risks, and so on.

 

What I have terrific admiration for is not the CEO of the Fortune 100 company but rather the innovative, hard-working business starter. Those are the folks who drive our economy and make the success we've enjoyed possible.

 

Hell, if we're going to allow people to fail, we must allow them to succeed. If we aren't going to allow either, then we cannot expect a "return on investment." ROI exists for only one reason: to compensate for risk.

 

I'd say that part of what we have wrong is not allowing failure (thus obviating the risk premium), not allowing success (that envy seems to be creeping into our national consciousness), and not having the right regulations in place. Reich's "Supercapitalism" does a fair job at raising some of the issues.

[BFish]

to take the "business starter"/ greed issue one step further it seems that many risk takers were initially successful, then lost everything, only to go at it again and finally achieve long-term success.

 

however one defines greed, for the folks who persevered, it ain't about greed. it's about staying financially healthy, no embarassing social issues due to business failures, and risk/reward levels that resemble a lead off hitter vs the clean up hitter. in the end a lot of singles can get you into the hall of fame.

 

is it greed to want straight a's in school, date the cutest chick or make the most $$$'s. at the end of the day the backbone of our economy is not comprised of the glasstower ceo's but those i describe above. eat some dirt for a while..the peanut butter sammies taste awfully good after that. greed can be mistaken for drive and success.

 

 

[Lets_Play_Two]

Now that the automakers are getting money it is put up or shut up time as far as I am concerned.

 

An interesting side note for me specifically---I have a 2008 GMC Yukon Hybrid, lots of room, good towing capacity and 21 mpg on regular gasoline. I recently had a hesitation problem with the vehicle which was very intermittent. I took it to the dealer and they now have GMC engineers involved because it is an issue they have never seen in the hybrid and they want to make sure they get it right. I know the owner of the dealership and he says he has never seen this kind of manufacturer reaction. Maybe they understand this technology is important to them. Every day I get asked about the performance of this vehicle, at gas pumps, in parking lots and waiting at stop lights (the most recent inquiry was from a guy driving a Range Rover). So it would seem there are lots of potential buyers.

 

 

[Ken H.]

I think where the real problem/issue/disagreement lies is in trying to define what excessive greed is.

Well call me what you may, but in my book this fits repugnant, totally unjustifiable, morally bankrupt, unadulterated, excessive greed by any definition...

 

Bonuses handed out at several top Wall Street investment firms (you know, those hat-in-hand outfits begging for taxpayer help) over the last few days:

 

Lloyd Blankfein at Goldman Sachs - $53.4 M (highest single bonus ever on Wall Street)

 

John Mack at Morgan Stanley - $40 M (after saying earier in Dec. he would forgo it)

 

John Thain at Merrill Lynch - $10 M (what he has asked for, board approval is pending)

 

May they all rot in _ell.

 

 

[Ken H.]

What I have terrific admiration for is not the CEO of the Fortune 100 company but rather the innovative, hard-working business starter. Those are the folks who drive our economy and make the success we've enjoyed possible.

Amen to that.

[Whip]

Hey Ken

 

It does sound crazy to me. I think this is who Paulson was saving with that TARP BS.

 

I don't think the world was in that bad a shape till he told everyone it was......

 

 

[Whip]

My Idea of Greed.....

 

The New York Governors Plan

 

"He is proposing 88 new, or higher taxes, on things that include soda, haircuts, movie tickets and downloadable music."

[keithb]

"The New York Governors Plan," now substitute California Plan

 

The Ca. state Legislature was trying to do the same thing albeit illegally. All I can say is THANK GOD FOR TALK RADIO. After the word went out about this illegal ploy the citizens of this state flooded the switchboard of the governor et al and ARNOLD decided to VETO this illegal ploy to raise taxes on practically everything like New York. California has the highest sales tax, income tax, and gas tax in the country and the highest business tax in the west. The people of this state are FINALLY starting to listen and pay attention to what is going on with the budget and spending in this state. The same thing that is happening in the auto industry is happening to California. Unions and government spending by the legislature are killing this state. Add one item to the mix-services to illegal aliens to the tune of $10B/yr. (yes B as in BILLION) and this situation is unsustainable.