Starting RT on side stand: bad idea?

[Sea Beast]

 

In another thread (the Mother of All ST vs RT threads), it was mentioned that it's a bad idea to start an RT when it's parked on its side-stand.

 

Is this true? Is it significant? Anecdotal? Urban myth?

 

I've done a few searches to see if this topic has been discussed before, but so far I haven't found anything relevant.

 

-Brett

 

[Boffin]

In another thread (the Mother of All ST vs RT threads), it was mentioned that it's a bad idea to start an RT when it's parked on its side-stand.

 

Is this true? Is it significant? Anecdotal? Urban myth?

 

I've done a few searches to see if this topic has been discussed before, but so far I haven't found anything relevant.

 

-Brett

 

Urban myth. Several boxers have been made without a mainstand (R1100s and Boxer Cup are two that come to mind). If there was an issue BMW might have mentioned it in you handbook, no?

[T__]

In another thread (the Mother of All ST vs RT threads), it was mentioned that it's a bad idea to start an RT when it's parked on its side-stand.

 

Is this true? Is it significant? Anecdotal? Urban myth?

 

I've done a few searches to see if this topic has been discussed before, but so far I haven't found anything relevant.

 

-Brett

 

 

Brett, only if you place your helmet or glasses on the seat before starting.. Too much angle & starting vibration will dump them on the ground before you can grab them..

 

Pray tell WHAT reason was given for not starting on the side stand?

 

 

Twisty

 

[JayW]

 

Pray tell WHAT reason was given for not starting on the side stand?

 

 

Twisty

 

It had something to do inadequate lubrication at startup and why the right jug cylinder seems to fail more often than the left one. It was new to me too - I'm skeptical.

 

Jay

[Boffin]

 

Pray tell WHAT reason was given for not starting on the side stand?

 

 

Twisty

 

It had something to do inadequate lubrication at startup and why the right jug cylinder seems to fail more often than the left one. It was new to me too - I'm skeptical.

 

Jay

 

That must be why all those UJMs have lube failure to the cylinders, what with them being upright ...

[waylap]

I've always been too paranoid to start a $20k motorcycle unless I'm sitting on it with the clutch in and a cozy handfull of brake.

Probably spent too much time on a HD. You could hit the starter button on it and it would jump across the driveway.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Years ago I saw someone who had started their bike (not necessarily a BMW) on the sidestand and then got distracted talking to a park ranger; the bike crept forward down the road grade until the sidestand collapsed and the bike fell over.

 

Should be fine to start/run any bike on the sidestand; just make sure the above scenario doesn't happen to you.

[smiller]

I'm not sure what I'm missing here but how can you start an RT while on its sidestand given that there's an interlock switch to prevent that?

[waylap]

I'm not sure what I'm missing here but how can you start an RT while on its sidestand given that there's an interlock switch to prevent that?

 

I've heard strange tales from far away of people disconnecting some do-hickey so that they can run their bike on the sidestand, like to stop and open / close a gate and stuff.

[Koop]

I'm not sure what I'm missing here but how can you start an RT while on its sidestand given that there's an interlock switch to prevent that?

 

The interlock prevents it from running with side stand down and a gear engaged, not when it's in neutral.

 

Also, I doubt if the right cylinder lacks lubrication. I believe this engine is equipped with oil jets to cool the pistons by spraying oil on the underside (there's also plenty of lube being flung from the big end rod bearing into the cylinder). This would undoubtedly also provide plenty of lube to the cylinder as modern piston skirts are very short.

[waylap]

He said short skirts....he he he

[Boffin]

I'm not sure what I'm missing here but how can you start an RT while on its sidestand given that there's an interlock switch to prevent that?

 

Only on the 1100s, from the 1150 on, the sidestand interlock only works in gear.

[smiller]

Only on the 1100s, from the 1150 on, the sidestand interlock only works in gear.

Ah ha, thanks, somehow I never noticed that. And in a way it kind of answers the question... if BMW initially prevented any engine operation with the sidestand deployed and then made a design change to allow operation in neutral that would imply that they don't think it's a problem.

[Ken H.]

Old wives tale. My GS doesn’t even have a center stand,.

[bendbill]

Dang, guys. I was the one who wrote the comparo, and added the aside about not using the sidestand.

 

I don't want to perpetuate myths or urban legends, so I sure flubbed that one. I do recall my independent mechanic telling me to avoid sidestand starts and long periods on the sidestand in response to my questions about continued high oil use. Maybe that's why he was indepedent?!

 

I'll go to the original post, delete the info and explain the error in the thread.

 

Thanks for the info.

[pokorskij]

Years ago I saw someone who had started their bike (not necessarily a BMW) on the sidestand and then got distracted talking to a park ranger; the bike crept forward down the road grade until the sidestand collapsed and the bike fell over.

 

Should be fine to start/run any bike on the sidestand; just make sure the above scenario doesn't happen to you.

 

I can second that, almost happened to me with my 05 r1200rt, in my driveway. Won't leave it running on sidestand without maintaining physical contact with bike again.

[DonB]

Pressure lube, pressure lube, pressure lube..........

[Indy Dave]

the risk one runs when starting a RT on the side stand is the bike creeping ahead and tipping. This is more of a risk when it's cold out.

 

Next time it's chilly - put your bike on the center stand and start it. Now look at the rear wheel. Note it's turning! BMW claims this is a normal. . .

[Koop]

the risk one runs when starting a RT on the side stand is the bike creeping ahead and tipping. This is more of a risk when it's cold out.

 

Next time it's chilly - put your bike on the center stand and start it. Now look at the rear wheel. Note it's turning! BMW claims this is a normal. . .

 

Hmmm...without doubt there's a certain amount of friction due to the viscosity of the oil in the gear box. With the rear wheel airborn and free of drag it's normal for it to spin when the gearbox oil is cold and viscous. I would be very surprised to see this viscous drag in the gearbox actually move the bike (instead of just freewheeling the rear wheel).

[roadhome]

I'm with you Koop. If the bike is creeping and the rear wheel is on the ground there's something wrong like 60 weight and 10 degrees, or too much food for the clutch squirrels, or bad voodoo or something equally obvious.

[Indy Dave]

Well, just saying it happens. If you rev the engine, the wheel speeds up. Warm, my bike does not turn the back wheel.

 

Start your bike on the side stand. or not. I do it both ways. But I don't start it up cold this time of year on the side stand unless I'm on it.

[roadhome]

I've certainly had motorcycles do things that they shouldn't have more than once....OHHH BOY, I certainly have had that experience. If the fix is as simple as not starting it while it's leaning then so be it. May all fixes to mechanical quirks be as simple! Persoally, I'm in Norton purgatory right now... trying to work my way out

[chaparral]

Back in the airhead days(late 60s-70s) oil would collect in the left jug and seep into the combustion chamber. This caused some startup smoking and possible plug fouling. That was a legitimate concern. The later engines have different oil set-up, deeper sump, also engine tolerances are much closer. I haven't seen any smoke since I started riding Oil/Hex heads. $.02 worth

[Tetz]

It is a REALLY bad idea to start the bike with the cover only pulled part way off...........let me explain.

 

I cover my bike with a good quality cover during the long Wisconsin winter. I had just added some fuel stabilizer and wanted to run the bike to get it into the fuel lines. So I pull the cover up past the engine and over the windshield. I started the bike on the side stand with the intention of letting it run for a few minutes. My dog was out in the yard and he distracted me for a brief second. I walked out of the garage and upon my return...the right side of the bike was on FIRE. This is a brand new 09 RT with 60 miles on it! I pulled the cover off, which had fallen back towards the hot exhaust, and was on fire. I was lucky to have caught it in time and stomped the flames out on the garage floor.

 

I almost threw up when I looked at the right side of the bike...black soot all over the side panels. I figured the fire HAD to have caused major paint and panel damage.

 

I took some car polish and polished off the soot.......no damage to the paint or panels. Not even a mark on the exhaust from where the cover had fallen.

 

The lessons learned is NEVER leave the bike unattended and of course remove the cover completely before starting. I had always wondered if it was possible to put ON a cover to soon after riding...I got my answer...a bike cover can start on fire from the hot exhaust. Hope this will keep someone else out of harms way.

 

[keithb]

No problems with starting my RT on the sidestand. Be thankful you don't have a late 80's or early 90's K75. My buddy had the orange K75c I believe and when he left it on the sidestand and started the bike it looked just like a mosquito fogger running. Smoke just billowing out the exhaust.

[motoguy128]

the risk one runs when starting a RT on the side stand is the bike creeping ahead and tipping. This is more of a risk when it's cold out.

 

Next time it's chilly - put your bike on the center stand and start it. Now look at the rear wheel. Note it's turning! BMW claims this is a normal. . .

 

Hmmm...without doubt there's a certain amount of friction due to the viscosity of the oil in the gear box. With the rear wheel airborn and free of drag it's normal for it to spin when the gearbox oil is cold and viscous. I would be very surprised to see this viscous drag in the gearbox actually move the bike (instead of just freewheeling the rear wheel).

 

tha is normal. Both of my Japanese sportbikes while running on a rear stand in neutral, the rear wheel would start to turn slowly. Not suprising since they idle faster than the boxer and the chain drive has less drag than the shaft drive.

 

You should note, that it will stop, of course, when you pull in the clutch. When in netral the input shaft is turning, and both sets of gear are turning (constant mesh), but the gear dogs are disengaged so the output shaft isn't directly engaged. So the friction is hydralic fluid motion (windage?) between the gears and gear dogs and the bearing surface between the output shaft gears and the output shaft. Once the fluid in the gearbox warms-up less energy is transferred and the motion stops.

 

Think about it, how hard is the wheel to turn by hand? It's not hard to believe that friction at idle with cold fluids can result in maybe 1/8th of a HP being transferred and the resulting 0.5 ft-lbs of torque @ 1500RPM.

[Indy Dave]

Tetz - whew! - glad that worked out OK. Lots of different scenarios could have played out I'm sure. Congrats on the bike ~ Enjoy!

[tallman]

Back in the airhead days(late 60s-70s) oil would collect in the left jug and seep into the combustion chamber. This caused some startup smoking and possible plug fouling. That was a legitimate concern. The later engines have different oil set-up, deeper sump, also engine tolerances are much closer. I haven't seen any smoke since I started riding Oil/Hex heads. $.02 worth

 

Basically this.

But, we've had a board member who rides a K1200 RS that was told part of the smoking issue upon starting

that bike was a result of leaving it on the sidestand all the time.

Not saying I agree with that ref modern beemers, but I've seen anecdotal evidence of occasional

smokers.

Back in the day, yes.

Today, no.

[Ken H.]

upon my return...the right side of the bike was on FIRE.

[T__]

Back in the airhead days(late 60s-70s) oil would collect in the left jug and seep into the combustion chamber. This caused some startup smoking and possible plug fouling. That was a legitimate concern. The later engines have different oil set-up, deeper sump, also engine tolerances are much closer. I haven't seen any smoke since I started riding Oil/Hex heads. $.02 worth

 

Basically this.

But, we've had a board member who rides a K1200 RS that was told part of the smoking issue upon starting

that bike was a result of leaving it on the sidestand all the time.

Not saying I agree with that ref modern beemers, but I've seen anecdotal evidence of occasional

smokers.

Back in the day, yes.

Today, no.

 

 

Tim, I had one of those old K bike side stand smokers.. Problem it would still smoke even if started on the center stand (or standing up between my legs) if it was parked on the side stand after riding..

 

The OP asked if STARTING on the side stand made any difference not if parking on the side stand made a difference..

On my old K bike (& others I know of) they could be started on the side stand with no smoking if parked on the center stand after riding until cold..

 

Twisty

 

[Sea Beast]

 

Thanks everyone for the thorough response to my question.

 

Looks like I can leave my bike on the sidestand without worrying too much when I start it. Well, other than worrying about my helmet rolling off, but I figured that one out already...

 

-Brett