Made in America

[yabadabapal]

Its been a busy few weeks as I am getting my studio/office all geared up in my new location. Shopping a few hours everyday for the things I need. Main concerns are large metal cabinets with lots of drawers for tools and large wood cabinets with lots of drawers for electronic tools and devices. I ended up making all my shelves myself with a nice hand saw and a square. No matter where I went, I simply couldnt find many places that carried products made in America. The great corporations of America have done a great disservice to our country by using our country to build a large infrastructure and then outsoucrcing all the labor to keep the prices low. I would rather have paid more for products knowing that the higher prices would secure labor employment and education for the many capable hard working people in this country. Even when I went to IKEA (sweeden) most things were made in China.

When I visited a Walmart, I couldnt believe it. I asked a few of the workers why they didnt have a union to protect the workers of the largest employer in the USA whos products mostly come from China. I was politely encouraged to mind my own business.

Guess what. This is my business and my country.

This is disgusting behavior by many corporations to save a few dollars at the expense of not being loyal to the coutry and people that helped buid it. Enough is Enough. We have the power to make all the changes in this country by choosing who we as consumers will do business with. Lets let em know what we think.

[StuGotz]

Well spoken Bobby...

 

It seems that in tough times some find it easy to trash the American worker.

 

Lets put the blame where it really lies.

 

MB>

[Tony_K]

 

Lets put the blame where it really lies.

 

MB>

 

Yup, the American consumer.

 

Sad aint it?

[bakerzdosen]

the American consumer.

That's basically redundant.

[Tony_K]

Redundancy... Made in America!!!!

[steve.foote]

Americans at Work

 

American Made: Products and Services

 

Made in USA

 

I'm sure there are other directories, these were the first found on a Google search.

 

I recently bought a bedroom suite made by Moebel, Inc. It's made in USA, and yes it was spendy, but it's good stuff and will last a lifetime for me.

 

If you are willing to pay the price, there are plenty of companies in the US which make just about anything you could want. But, if it's cheap your after, well it is going to have to come from somewhere with cheap labor. And, that ain't here.

 

When I visited a Walmart, I couldnt believe it. I asked a few of the workers why they didnt have a union to protect the workers of the largest employer in the USA whos products mostly come from China. I was politely encouraged to mind my own business. Guess what. This is my business and my country.

 

In spite of the current economic downturn, isn't it curious that Walmart isn't cutting their workforce and begging congress for a handout?

[StuGotz]

You mean the "temporary workforce"?

 

The one with no wages and benefits?

 

Hang on dad, it ain't over yet!

 

MB>

[steve.foote]

You mean the "temporary workforce"?

 

The one with no wages and benefits?

 

Well, employment with Walmart seemed to have worked out for my Aunt. No only did they pay her to "temporarily" work for them for almost 35 years, they're even paying her a retirement.

 

Who da thunk?

[Francois_Dumas]

Corporations nowadays only reason for existence is making profit and more profit, driven by the stock exchanges (and guess who holds the stock?), and their customers asking for cheaper products (guess who are the customers?).

 

Bobby, I totally agree with you on supporting our own businesses and business people, especially the smaller ones, but you can't blame 'the corporations' for the mess

[StuGotz]

exception to the rule?

 

MB>

[steve.foote]

exception to the rule?

 

MB>

 

Umm, alright. Whatever spins your globe.

[russell_bynum]

Corporations nowadays only reason for existence is making profit and more profit, driven by the stock exchanges (and guess who holds the stock?), and their customers asking for cheaper products (guess who are the customers?).

 

Bobby, I totally agree with you on supporting our own businesses and business people, especially the smaller ones, but you can't blame 'the corporations' for the mess

 

Yeah...those damn corporations trying to make profits, make their shareholders happy, and sell the consumers what they want. The no good bastards.

 

 

My company has a bonus structure for all employees. The better the company does, the bigger everyone's bonus. Two years ago I used my bonus to buy dirt bikes. The Tuono also came from a bonus. So, I'm quite OK with the fact that the company I work for makes money.

 

But hey...if it bothers you so much, then feel free to work for a company that doesn't put shareholder demands, profit, and giving the consumer what they want at the top of their priorities. Let us know how that works out.

[Francois_Dumas]

You don't properly read what I'm saying..... or maybe my pigeon English is too bad

 

Check out that other thread Russel, I am agreeing with you for once.

 

P.S. And yes, it bothers me a lot when companies ONLY go for the shareholders demands and forget there CORE business and CORE customers. That's what's been happening all around us - not only in the US - and what ALSO got us into the current mess.

 

And oh, yes, I DID find the solution: I started a company of my own that does NOT make all those 'mistakes'

[swfraley]

Am I the only one who finds this thread ironic on bmwrt.com?

[RichEdwards]

Am I the only one who finds this thread ironic on bmwrt.com?

Yes, but my new vehicle is a Ford Escape. There is no good American-made choice for me in the world of motorcycles. But Ford has risen to the challenge of building good cars and I'm a buyer.

[Matts_12GS]

Am I the only one who finds this thread ironic on bmwrt.com?

 

That's why I only buy them used.

 

But, in the end, it's like that old Kinks song....

Give the people what they want...

 

We want cheap, get chinese junk and a displaced workforce. What's that called, the law of unintended consequences?

 

 

 

Lou Gehrig died of Lou Gehrig's disease, you'd think he'd a seen that coming!

[Paul Mihalka]

One more problem we may see in the future is that Chinese junk becomes less junk but will still be cheaper than ours. Think Japan and Korea/Hyundai.

[R80RTKen]

If you want it done right, do it yourself!

Glad to hear that you were unwilling to sacrifice quality for cost, and able to break out that American Ingenuity and build it yourself.. In addition to quality stuff, you have pride of ownership.

 

Thumbs up!

 

 

[VinnyR11]

Am I the only one who finds this thread ironic on bmwrt.com?

 

I also thought it was odd at best. I just kept reading and shaking my head.

 

Coming from many years in the "evil" Corporate world, and having traveled extensively for years, I developed this core belief. People are people no matter where you go or what business they are in. There are greedy idiot CEO's, and there are greedy idiot motorcycle riders...yes even Beemer riders. There also are many (the vast majority IMO) really nice, caring, "want to do what's right for employees and the environment" business people, and of course the same goes for those Beemer riders as well. I'd bet the ratio is generally the same now matter which career you pick, or country you visit.

[rob1100r]

 

Lets put the blame where it really lies.

 

MB>

 

Yup, the American consumer.

 

Sad aint it?

 

RANT:

 

**You bet it's our fault!!! We all want it cheaper cheaper cheaper, bargains bargains bargains...WELL....They found a way to make it CHEAPER and a 'Bargain', CHINA baby!

 

Funny thing with Walmart, I purchased 3 items somewhat recently that were NOT made in China: Mobil 1 oil, a replacement razor head for my BRAUN razor (Germany), and toothbrushes (the pack said made in Germany, go figure!)

 

RANT OVER

 

 

[hANNAbONE]

Am I the only one who finds this thread ironic on bmwrt.com?

Yes, but my new vehicle is a Ford Escape. There is no good American-made choice for me in the world of motorcycles. But Ford has risen to the challenge of building good cars and I'm a buyer.

 

hERE'S sOME interesting viewing -- speaking of FO MO CO... http://info.detnews.com/video/index.cfm?id=1189

 

I particularly like the ending sentences...tongue firmly planted

[russell_bynum]

P.S. And yes, it bothers me a lot when companies ONLY go for the shareholders demands and forget there CORE business and CORE customers. That's what's been happening all around us - not only in the US - and what ALSO got us into the current mess.

 

Shareholders control the company. If the shareholders want you (the CEO) to do X and you do Y instead, they will vote your ass out and you'll be out of a job.

[yabadabapal]

Im in favor of companies making money and shareholders getting their dividends. Im just a little disappointed in that as capable as many companies are of capturing markets and sustaining growth, their shortsightedness in cultivating the potential within their own domain will inevitably make a global economy more important than the national economy.

Im telling you right now. I want Unions and I want to see the great potential of so many people in this country being cultivated and matured instead of this outsourcing to other countries so that the foreign work force can live in sustainable poverty. I believe profits and decency go hand in hand.

[russell_bynum]

Im in favor of companies making money and shareholders getting their dividends. Im just a little disappointed in that as capable as many companies are of capturing markets and sustaining growth, their shortsightedness in cultivating the potential within their own domain will inevitably make a global economy more important than the national economy.

Im telling you right now. I want Unions and I want to see the great potential of so many people in this country being cultivated and matured instead of this outsourcing to other countries so that the foreign work force can live in sustainable poverty. I believe profits and decency go hand in hand.

 

LOL.

[Francois_Dumas]

P.S. And yes, it bothers me a lot when companies ONLY go for the shareholders demands and forget there CORE business and CORE customers. That's what's been happening all around us - not only in the US - and what ALSO got us into the current mess.

 

Shareholders control the company. If the shareholders want you (the CEO) to do X and you do Y instead, they will vote your ass out and you'll be out of a job.

 

 

Exactly, greedy shareholders, heavily faulted system ..... as is being proven these days.

[John Ranalletta]

...and, your advice to people in other countries who buy products and services originating in the US would be:

(insert answer here)

 

 

China and Mexico just purchased millions of metric tons of US-grown soybeans and corn. Damn the bastards.

[BeniciaRT_GT]

Well, employment with Walmart seemed to have worked out for my Aunt. No only did they pay her to "temporarily" work for them for almost 35 years, they're even paying her a retirement.

 

Who da thunk?

 

I got a question for you on that one Steve?

 

What did your Aunt do for Wal Mart? Was she a greeter or stock clerk? Or maybe a cashier?

[upflying]

China today is what the USA was 70 years ago. Environmental over-regulation, anti-business politics, high taxes and labor unions forced manufacturer's to look elsewhere to build their widgets. Yet we keep re-electing these people who know what is best for us.

[Ken H.]

...and, your advice to people in other countries who buy products and services originating in the US would be:

(insert answer here)

If the US made product is a better quality value (and I consider price a component of quality value) buy it. If it isn't - don't.

[John Ranalletta]

Am I the only one who finds this thread ironic on bmwrt.com?

"Oh, ho, ho, irony! Oh, no, no, we don't get that here. ....We haven't had any irony here since about '83, when I was the only practitioner of it. And I stopped because I was getting tired of being stared at."

[Ken H.]

No matter where I went, I simply couldnt find many places that carried products made in America. The great corporations of America have done a great disservice to our country by using our country to build a large infrastructure and then outsoucrcing all the labor to keep the prices low. I would rather have paid more for products knowing that the higher prices would secure labor employment and education for the many capable hard working people in this country.

 

This is disgusting behavior by many corporations to save a few dollars at the expense of not being loyal to the coutry and people that helped buid it. Enough is Enough. We have the power to make all the changes in this country by choosing who we as consumers will do business with. Lets let em know what we think.

Well this is thread is obviously a continuation of some of the thoughts in the, “Is it true” thread in the Motorcycle Talk forum, but hey, I can do a bit of cut & pasting too…

 

This problem is simple to solve - Design and manufacture something the world wants to buy. Works better, cost the same (or less). That’s all it takes.

 

The US for decades now has continually come up with a long litany of reasons why they can no longer be competitive in the world. While guess what, the rest of the world has continually found ways to be competitive.

 

Look for solutions, not excuses. I'm so tired of hearing, "Here's why we can't", instead of, "Here's how we will."

 

[Ken H.]

Well, employment with Walmart seemed to have worked out for my Aunt. No only did they pay her to "temporarily" work for them for almost 35 years, they're even paying her a retirement.

I’m glad things worked out for your aunt, but let’s not loose track of the fact that overall Walmart has one of the worst employee rights abuse records in the USA.

[Matts_12GS]

I’m glad things worked out for your aunt, but let’s not loose track of the fact that overall Walmart has one of the worst employee rights abuse records in the USA.

 

But yet, people still flock there to work. It can't be all that bad then can it?

 

I mean, it's like those folks that say the US is the worst country on the face of the earth (or something similar) but we still have them doing everything they can to get here and live, legally or otherwise.

 

Curiouser and curiouser...

[Dave McReynolds]

The US for decades now has continually come up with a long litany of reasons why they can no longer be competitive in the world. While guess what, the rest of the world has continually found ways to be competitive.

 

 

Ways to be competitive:

 

1. Ignore child labor laws.

 

2. Ignore worker safety laws.

 

3. Ignore enviromental pollution laws.

 

4. Ignore minimum wage laws.

 

5. Restrict basic freedoms as are guaranteed under our Bill of Rights.

 

I would imagine that if we did those things, we could be more competitive here in the US too.

[John Ranalletta]

Well, employment with Walmart seemed to have worked out for my Aunt. No only did they pay her to "temporarily" work for them for almost 35 years, they're even paying her a retirement.

I’m glad things worked out for your aunt, but let’s not loose track of the fact that overall Walmart has one of the worst employee rights abuse records in the USA.

Is your allegation based upon the actual number of adjudicated instances of abuse?

 

Is that record available other than on anti Walmart websites?

 

How many documented, proven instances of abuse are on record as a percent of the number of Walmart employees natonally?

[Ken H.]

But yet, people still flock there to work. It can't be all that bad then can it?

Well personally I suspect they flock to work there more out of desperation than desire. I don’t think that many people really want to work long hours, many of them forced to be off the clock, and just short of being able to have benefits. When Walmart is the only company hiring in your small town, your options of work or starve become rather limited.

[Ken H.]

Ways to be competitive:

 

1. Ignore child labor laws.

 

2. Ignore worker safety laws.

 

3. Ignore environmental pollution laws.

 

4. Ignore minimum wage laws.

 

5. Restrict basic freedoms as are guaranteed under our Bill of Rights.

 

I would imagine that if we did those things, we could be more competitive here in the US too.

Oh baloney. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and other manufactures are being successful in the USA without doing any of those things. Saying we have to role back human rights and environmental gains 100 years just to be competitive is just more excuse making.

[Dave McReynolds]

Oh baloney. Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and other manufactures are being successful in the USA without doing any of those things. Saying we have to role back human rights and environmental gains 100 years just to be competitive is just more excuse making.

 

Oh I quite agree. There are two, probably more, types of foreign competition: foreign competition based on quality and efficiency, and foreign competition based on low prices achieved solely through the avoidance of standards we have in this country to protect our citizens and our environment.

 

As far as the first type is concerned, I say bring it on, we have to beat it if we want a share of the market. As far as the second type is concerned, I just believe we are commiting a form of economic and moral suicide to allow free trade of items produced under those conditions.

[Matts_12GS]

When Walmart is the only company hiring in your small town, your options of work or starve become rather limited.

 

There's one other option Ken, people can and should MOVE to where the work is, not expect it to come to them.

 

As confuscious used to say, Man who stand on hill with mouth open waits long time for roast duck to fall in it.

 

If people want to work, they will work. If they have to move to work they will move to work.

 

It really is that simple.

[John Ranalletta]

Speaking of irony, if the Big 3 business model resembled Walmart's as does Honda's and Toyota's, we wouldn't be in this mess.

 

That model does not include overpaying for the value of the labor input.

 

I've never perceived that most Walmart jobs required an advanced degree. That's not to devalue anyone's labor, but likely, most Walmart employees could assemble cars and vice versa. If true, the labor input is worth what it's worth, no more. Just like any other commodity.

[Dave McReynolds]

most Walmart employees could assemble cars and vice versa. If true, the labor input is worth what it's worth, no more. Just like any other commodity.

 

Which is not to say that in a totally unrestricted economy, Walmart employees would be paid the same as auto assembly workers. Jobs perceived as having better working conditions would have a greater supply of workers than those with worse working conditions. So in a totally unrestricted economy, I would expect farmworkers to be able to demand a higher wage than autoworkers, and autoworkers to be able to demand a higher wage than Walmart workers.

 

As opposed to the current system, where we have a captive supply of farmworkers who are not able to compete for the other two categories of jobs I mentioned, so they get less than the other two categories, and auto workers who are represented by a powerful union, so they are able to get proportionately more than they would in a more unrestricted environment.

[John Ranalletta]

Big 3 management, in concert with unions, artificially restricted competitive access to the work, artificially increasing the cost but not its value of its products. Had there been an open market for labor, costs would not be as high as they are because others, qualified to do most auto production and assembly work, and would contributed their labor at a lower, overall cost.

 

The new Honda plant just 60 miles from here received 60,000 applications for 2,000 jobs. Had it been a new GM plant, the jobs would have been reserved for laid off GM workers and tranferees to the exclusion of anyone who would have worked for a lower wage and benefit scale.

[yabadabapal]

Well said everyone. Valid points from the left, right and center.

Apparently regardless of the business protocal that is adopted and used, it seems to inevitably become abusive for the the betterment of a few at the cost of many. Unions become abusive and sometimes criminal. Non unions like walmart keep their employees under a certain aomount of hours to avoid paying benefits and insurances. No matter which way you go, the quality of care and attention is not to the benifit of the workers whether local or foreign, but to the bottom line. I propose it is possible to respect and insure the quality of life of a worker and reap the greater reward of profits as a result of workers who do better work because they know they are being respected and taken care of.

[steve.foote]

I got a question for you on that one Steve?

 

What did your Aunt do for Wal Mart? Was she a greeter or stock clerk? Or maybe a cashier?

 

What's your point? That some employee's of Walmart are not employee's of Walmart?

[steve.foote]

Look for solutions, not excuses. I'm so tired of hearing, "Here's why we can't", instead of, "Here's how we will."

 

For once, Ken, I'd like to hear you say, "Here's how I will."

[steve.foote]

I propose it is possible to respect and insure the quality of life of a worker and reap the greater reward of profits as a result of workers who do better work because they know they are being respected and taken care of.

 

I expect that to happen just after poverty, war and hunger are eradicated from the earth. Sounds good, but besides platitudes and latitudes, I don't see a workable plan on the table.

[Dave McReynolds]

The new Honda plant just 60 miles from here received 60,000 applications for 2,000 jobs.

 

Well, so much for the argument that we have a labor shortage in this country, and need to import manual laborers from other countries.

[John Ranalletta]

The new Honda plant just 60 miles from here received 60,000 applications for 2,000 jobs.

 

Well, so much for the argument that we have a labor shortage in this country, and need to import manual laborers from other countries.

In all likelihood, most were/are employed and looking to upgrade.

[BeniciaRT_GT]

I got a question for you on that one Steve?

 

What did your Aunt do for Wal Mart? Was she a greeter or stock clerk? Or maybe a cashier?

 

What's your point? That some employee's of Walmart are not employee's of Walmart?

 

The exact answer I expected...

[Bullett]

The US for decades now has continually come up with a long litany of reasons why they can no longer be competitive in the world. While guess what, the rest of the world has continually found ways to be competitive.

 

 

Ways to be competitive:

 

1. Ignore child labor laws.

 

2. Ignore worker safety laws.

 

3. Ignore enviromental pollution laws.

 

4. Ignore minimum wage laws.

 

5. Restrict basic freedoms as are guaranteed under our Bill of Rights.

 

I would imagine that if we did those things, we could be more competitive here in the US too.

 

Exactly. The tension between morality and greed.