clutch spline play

[j chambers]

ok, from what i saw and read here,i decided to see if i could inspect and or lube the clutch splines by removing the starter,yep, but i believe there is to much play between the spline and hub,see what you think,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqXR-AivqSI..veiw this poorly made video and tell me if this means remove the trans.you can see the movement where i has the trans in 2nd gear and the hub ain't moving...

joel

[Tony_K]

I would say you're a few rides away for a free spinning shaft... sans splines.

 

Tear down is on your short list... sorry.

[T__]

ok, from what i saw and read here,i decided to see if i could inspect and or lube the clutch splines by removing the starter,yep, but i believe there is to much play between the spline and hub,see what you think,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqXR-AivqSI..veiw this poorly made video and tell me if this means remove the trans.you can see the movement where i has the trans in 2nd gear and the hub ain't moving...

joel

 

 

Joel, the video is pretty blurry but if I am seeing what I think I am seeing I have to agree with Tony on your impending spline failure..

 

 

Twisty

 

[Jim Moore]

That's a lot of movement. Sorry.

[j chambers]

blurry yea, i had the latest video camera 7 years ago,but still not enough to get it on my pc,so this is 2 time recorded,with the camera and then from the tv screen to my phone so i could put it on the net(the actual video is real clear) which made it blurry. so the general veiw from eveyone is the clutch disc needs replaced or the trans input shaft or both? i'm just trying to look at parts..

joel

[T__]

blurry yea, i had the latest video camera 7 years ago,but still not enough to get it on my pc,so this is 2 time recorded,with the camera and then from the tv screen to my phone so i could put it on the net(the actual video is real clear) which made it blurry. so the general veiw from eveyone is the clutch disc needs replaced or the trans input shaft or both? i'm just trying to look at parts..

joel

 

 

Joel, as rule it is both the clutch hub splines & trans input shaft splines.. Wish the picture was a little clearer so we could be sure..

 

Not a cheap repair even if you do it yourself..

 

Twisty

 

[OoPEZoO]

Yeah.....if it looks as bad in person as it does on the video, I'd say you are due for a teardown.

 

I don't think mine was that bad when I went in to replace my slipping clutch. When I got in there, I found that the shaft was completely shot. I rebuilt the transmission myself and installed a new clutch kit. When I got it back together, it amazed me how little amount of play a new assembly has. If I would have known that, I would have torn into it months if not years earlier.

 

Just for an FYI......I replaced all the related seals (tranny and engine real main seals), installed a new input shaft, and installed a new clutch kit. My cost for parts ended up being right around $1300. The labor was just my own blood, sweat, and tears.

 

Here is my thread from Aug-Sept while I was rebuilding mine.

 

http://bmwsporttouring.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=381463&fpart=1

[OoPEZoO]

one more thing just for fun........what year, model, and mileage is the bike?

[j chambers]

THAT'S THE SAD PART! it only has 27,500 miles, an o2 model,and....i just bought it 2 months ago..i knew the deal was sweet, and had ideas that it was not shifting right.oh well, at least i got good tools and alittle know how..thanks for the input and i'll keep you guys posted.

joel

[OoPEZoO]

THAT'S THE SAD PART! it only has 27,500 miles, an o2 model,and....i just bought it 2 months ago..i knew the deal was sweet, and had ideas that it was not shifting right.oh well, at least i got good tools and alittle know how..thanks for the input and i'll keep you guys posted.

joel

 

Ouch.....best of luck

[Jim Moore]

Unfortunately, that's about when it happens. There are various theories as to the cause. The theory I personally believe is that the input shaft is misaligned. I'm afraid if you don't get that fixed out you will be back in there every 30K miles. There is an private guy who will make sure everything is aligned correctly. TTom Cutter maybe?

[Unhofliche_Gesundheit]

question please - how important, as a preventative maintenance item, would it be to lubricate the splines?

 

(i know some are looking for any excuse to take their bikes apart - so would you say yes even if you had to pay someone 70$/hr for this?

 

much obliged.

[j chambers]

i had suspected something wasn't right on my bike on the first real ride i had taken, so the maintinance was also an inspection. which proved fruitful and depression. man it's alot of stuff to take off..ughh..it may take 3 nites at my low pace

joel

[awagnon]

question please - how important, as a preventative maintenance item, would it be to lubricate the splines?

 

I think most don't believe it's a lubrication problem, though it may contribute to the spline failure. Also, contrary to what some may say, is there proof that lubricating the splines will prevent failure if there is an alignment problem? Or just delay it.

[AndyS]

question please - how important, as a preventative maintenance item, would it be to lubricate the splines?

 

I think most don't believe it's a lubrication problem, though it may contribute to the spline failure. Also, contrary to what some may say, is there proof that lubricating the splines will prevent failure if there is an alignment problem? Or just delay it.

 

If the shaft is mis aligned, and I am one that believes this is the cause of the majority of failures, then you could lube it every day, but it WILL fail, it has to because instead of the shaft just locating it now grinds itself against the clutch.

 

So the alignment issue really out to be checked and addressed in whatever way one feels capable of!

 

If the shaft is actually in line, then only the minimum of lube is required and it should last as long as any car clutch spline you haven't lubed!!

 

Andy

[2wheelterry]

I am one of the lucky few that had a spline failure. Mine was in 2005, also on a 02 RT (with 31K miles). It is possible to measure the alignment, back then I found several posts of folks that had done it. My method copied the same general thinking. You will need to pull the trans and the front cover from the trans. I can forward you a Word document describing the process. It was in an old post, now gone I presume and am willing to loan the tool to take the measurement. If misalignment is confirmed, fixing it is not a simple matter but can be done. Send me an email if I can be of help.

[awagnon]

So, Terry, was your's out of alignment and if so, how did you fix it? My splines went out on my '02 RT at 40,000 miles. I didn't do any alignment checks, but just replaced the clutch and input shaft. My plan is to re-eval the splines this winter and if wearing again after 15,000 miles on the new splines, I'll trade it in and let some dealer worry about it.

 

BTW, I had breakfast with one of the salesmen of a BMW dealership who insisted the splines were a "wear item" and that they shouldn't be the responsibility of BMW after the warranty is expired.

[j chambers]

"BTW, I had breakfast with one of the salesmen of a BMW dealership who insisted the splines were a "wear item" and that they shouldn't be the responsibility of BMW after the warranty is expired. " I WORK IN THE AUTO INDUSTRY AND THAT IS BOGUS! i work on honda cars and they're puttin transmissions in under warranty for cars that have up to 120,000 mile and some even above that,and that is open to 10 years, why is it that in autos trans problem are fixed by the manufacturer,but the bike mainsahft to the trans is a wear item. that is laughable-this is not directed to you, just at the statemant that was made to you by that dealer employee(awagnon)..

[nrp]

Properly aligned splines don't wear. Misaligned splines are a serious wear item as a rotating few of the spline teeth are always dragging the clutch disk around the pressure plate, once per revolution. Hence the fretting type of failure.+

[awagnon]

"the bike mainsahft to the trans is a wear item. that is laughable

 

I agree 100%. Look at my letter to the editor in this month's Motorcycle Consumer News about BMW drive trains. I argued with this BMW salesman, but it was like talking to a post.

[BABABeemer]

If the shaft is actually in line, then only the minimum of lube is required and it should last as long as any car clutch spline you haven't lubed!!

 

Andy

Most car clutch/tranny splines have their ends located in the end of the crankshaft with a pilot bearing so there is less chance of an alignment problem. I don't know why those smart engineers at BMW motorcycles couldn't figure that out?

[j chambers]

 

"I can forward you a Word document describing the process. It was in an old post, now gone I presume and am willing to loan the tool to take the measurement. If misalignment is confirmed, fixing it is not a simple matter but can be done. Send me an email if I can be of help.

"

i want to see this

joel

[Unhofliche_Gesundheit]

could the alignment process be posted here?

 

this curious monkey also would like to see it! thanks.

[j chambers]

update! i have the trans back and installed( alittle late by 2 weeks as i had waited for rear main seals and the tool for install) well it has made a big difference after the first drive tonite. i had thought i had forgotten how to shift when riding bike (when i had first gotten it), loud shifting and some miss shifts, well now i know it wasn't me! it had made a huge difference in the shifting-real quiet now, and i did not miss or make it seem like i was a first time rider.also the main thing i notice that led me on the path to think something was a miss is that when i lug the engine now (in a higher gear) it doesn't make a grinding noise-awesome!.well i saved on the labor to the r&r, thanks to Aton Largiader for the trans repair, main shaft and clutch parts,i also replaced the slave cylinder as it was leaking,also installed the signal minder relay, not really as excited about that as i had thought.well 1950.00 to Aton,300.00 for rear main and tool(anybody want to borrow it?) and i hate working on bikes, love riding thought!

joel

[oiasghar]

Joel,

 

Did you just get a new input shaft and clutch as far as the spline issue is concerned or the transmission was rebuilt with a new cover.

 

I have a 02 (the magical year) R1150R and had to put a new clutch in at only 10,800 miles after I started experiencing the dreaded sticky downshift. Bought the bike used with 7200 miles on it. The clutch was pretty much done but the input shaft showed almost no wear so I decided to just buy some time for now. I am at 17,800 and the sticky downshift are back.

 

So now the clock is ticking and I need to see if I should send the transmission to Anton or try it my self or just go for a used transmission and hope it fixes the issue and doesn't give me other issues.

 

Thanks,

 

Obaid

[j chambers]

Aton has not seen the misalignment on the bikes he has seen(mine not one of them) so we went with all the flywheel/clutch componets and the main shaft,with whatever else was needed for the shaft job-in the trans(mine shaft was toast as well as the clutch hub stripped out).my bike has 28,000 on it which i have only seen right under 2,000( arghh!!! sometimes it sucks buy used). as you state mine had difficult downshifts and upshifts,but what made me believe it had the clutch stripped was the noise when lugging it or when letting off the throttle,i could tell something sounded wornout.

joel

[oiasghar]

Thank you. Lets see what happens.