Final Drive Failure in France

[RussInParis]

What started out to be a great day:

Ended up like this:

Because of this:

 

The Story:

 

Just heading up the twisties towards the Col de l'Iseran in France, I felt a kind of vibration from the rear. My first thot was that our plugged rear tire had let go (professional plug, not the BMW one). We stopped immediately and I looked at the back but the tire was fine. Started gently forward -> vibration, kind of like one part of the tire was rubbing as it rotated. Decided to go back down to town and carefully check it out. We coasted down in neutral, hazards flashing, about 1km to the town we just left, and pulled up in a parking lot. Tire was still fine, but then I saw the oil and took the picture you see.

 

We called our insurance company's road assistance, and they sent someone to pick it up. It is currently at the Renault garage in the next town over, and on Tuesday will be going to the BMW dealer in Chambery (they're closed monday).

 

Questions:

 

- I did the right thing to stop where we were and refuse to drive it right? If the insurance company says otherwise I'll have to pay for their assistance.

 

- I assume this is the dreaded Final Drive Failure, although I'm hoping there are degrees of torture here. Any chance that it's just a seal and leaked oil? Please?

 

- It's a 2002 purchased new by us. We phoned BMW assistance and they said it was out of guarantee as of June 5, 2005, barely a month ago. Anyone have experience or advice with BMW France (or in other countries) on getting them to help assuming we're looking at a huge bill? We only have 36,000kms and all BMW servicing. Last service was just before leaving for this trip in June.

 

Any other advice?

 

In retrospect it could have been MUCH worse; failure on an autoroute at 150km/h or more; failure in another country where things don't work as well; also we have a few days left before our next assignment, so we're not too rushed.

 

And all this because we wanted to have some nice pictures like Francois Dumas!!

 

Russ

[Global_Rider]

Any chance that it's just a seal and leaked oil? Please?

 

Not if you experienced vibration, as you've mentioned. Chances are its more serious. The bearing failed and damaged the seal...then it leaks.

 

It's a 2002 purchased new by us. We phoned BMW assistance and they said it was out of guarantee as of June 5, 2005, barely a month ago. Anyone have experience or advice with BMW France (or in other countries) on getting them to help assuming we're looking at a huge bill? We only have 36,000kms and all BMW servicing. Last service was just before leaving for this trip in June.

 

Yes. Ask BMW why their automotive rear drives that undergo far more loading last till the car dies...500,000 kms or more.

 

Over here in Canada, BMW will cover it under warrany especially since it only has 36,000 kilometers. If BMW France refuses to cover it one month out of warranty, then it is a cop-out on their part. Not good public relations...the word spreads fast.

 

If I had a failure one or two years out of warranty and a rear drive failed with that mileage (and considering how I look after my BMWs), they would have one hell of a court case on their hands.

 

Any other advice?

 

Yup, buy a Honda ST1100. Just kidding.

 

By the way, when you get your new drive, add Dow Corning Gear Gard M gear lubricant additive. BMW KNOWS they have an issue with the rear drives (on the odd bike). Whey else would they start using moly additive as a factory fill?

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Yes. Ask BMW why their automotive rear drives that undergo far more loading last till the car dies...500,000 kms or more.

 

I'm gonna put on my grumpy hat for a bit here. I doubt there has been even one rear drive failure in all the reported incidences so comparing loading to the cars is stupid. What there has been is a rash of failures of the main drive support bearing which is subject to ungodly loading some of which it was never designed to take. Did BMW make a design error in the sizing/position of this bearing? Yes, IMHO. They are very aware of it.

 

I would suggest, not getting on your high horse with BMW France and have them take a look at it. My bike, which exceeded the warranty milage by some 5K kilometers was fixed for free by BMW USA. You might just get a pleasant surprise if you take things one step above the dealer level.

[smiller]

I did the right thing to stop where we were and refuse to drive it right? If the insurance company says otherwise I'll have to pay for their assistance.

 

I would say that you can easily back up your decision not to ride it any further. With the crown bearing in a failure mode anything can happen, including total lockup of the rear wheel which could easily cause a serious accident.

 

failure in another country where things don't work as well

 

Not work as well... as France..?? Just kidding, I'm jealous of your 'twisties'...

[Global_Rider]

What there has been is a rash of failures of the main drive support bearing which is subject to ungodly loading some of which it was never designed to take. Did BMW make a design error in the sizing/position of this bearing? Yes, IMHO.

 

Well what kind of testing did they do to the prototypes prior to going to production? A few rides to the corner store? Time to failure will depend on a few things, but 36,000 kilometers (22,350 miles) is unacceptable. Failure would be unacceptable at 60,000 miles. Bearings last when used under the conditions they were designed for.

 

They are very aware of it.

 

Yet they continue to go on with the single sided swingarm/paralever design...the latter to help with shaft jacking effect.

 

Funny how on my 1986 R80 G/S PD with a single sided swingarm (the same type of loading on that support bearing), failures are unheard of. At least I haven't come across any on the forums.

 

Now you know why they are adding an additive. But they don't seem to know anything about it when asked.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Alex,

 

I don't excuse them the problem. It is real. It is also clear that the bearing failure rate is a bit high. There are many other factors that contribute to bearing failure besides the ultimate load. Those that might make for early failure are, improper fitting clearances, either too tight or too loose, damage due to mishandling on installation and finally, impact damage during use.

 

To say that your R80GS has the same loads is ridiculous. The bike is hundreds of pounds lighter, has about 1/2 the torque and next to nothing for tires when compared to an RT. In fact, loading is probably not as much of an issue since LT's don't typically show much bigger propensity for the failure. My vote for most of the failures goes to something called spralling which essentially is caused by impact denting the races which causes the balls to skid rather than roll. It is not an instant fail type mode but rather a gradual one with accelerating rate towards the end. The impact could easily come from things light potholes or curbs or speed bumps. Cumulative damage is not out of the question either.

[James Clark]

Yes. Ask BMW why their automotive rear drives that undergo far more loading last till the car dies...500,000 kms or more.

 

1. Because the final drive on a bimmer doesn't carry the weight of the car.

 

2. The bearings are optimally typed and sized for the task at hand.

[Clive Liddell]

Ed,

I was just wondering if the bearing in bikes "laid up" for the winter possibly get a tad of corrosion on the half out of the oil? It would be interesting to compare the incidence of bearing failure on these bikes to bikes that are used every day 12 months a year...

[ShovelStrokeEd]

That would make my GS an exception. It was in almost continuous use from the day I bought it till it died. When the rear died I had some 39K miles on it in 18 months.

 

I really suspect there are two other factors at play here. Those drives that fail in the short term are probably victims of either poor assembly or improper clearance with the latter being the more likely culprit. Modern assembly calls for just grabbing pieces from the bin and putting them together, depending on consistent machining for everything to fit. In the old days, the technicians measured everything and selective fit parts, rejecting those that did not conform. Now, with batch control methods, maybe one part in 20 is actually inspected.

 

Longer term brings usage into play and possibly flexing in the shaft. That stubby thing looks pretty stiff but, the loads are really high in cornering. That wheel and tire make for a pretty good lever arm. I don't recall the bearing number that goes in there but, from looking at it, it was not a deep row bearing which could take a bit of side loading. Regular ball bearings start skidding their balls, even caged, at some pretty low side loading numbers.

 

Yet another factor might be the de-rating of the bearing due to speed considerations. Gear oil does not make a really good bearing lube. Ball bearings depend, in part, on some speed to maintain their film clearance. MTBF falls dramatically when speeds are reduced below 1000 RPM or so. Lemme grab a calculator. 60 mph is 792 rpm. roughly, depending on tire diameter, which puts that bearing in a precarious position. I can't believe BMW's engineers were not aware of this. I think rather they may have noted it and called for a different specification and were voted down due to other considerations having to do with esthetics.

[RussInParis]

Thanks for your replies/support. I'm not looking forward to calling the dealer tomorrow though...

 

I'm wondering about two things:

 

- has anyone documented the number of failures of this type in case I get a reply like "There's no design problem so the fault is not ours" from BMW France.

 

- is there any indication this problem was fixed on the 1200RT?

 

Russ

[Global_Rider]

Alex,

I don't excuse them the problem. It is real. It is also clear that the bearing failure rate is a bit high.

 

Well BMW AG doesn't think the problem is real and they won't even admit to it. I put them on the same level as any US automaker in that respect.

 

There are many other factors that contribute to bearing failure besides the ultimate load. Those that might make for early failure are, improper fitting clearances, either too tight or too loose, damage due to mishandling on installation and finally, impact damage during use.

 

Aware of it all, as our bearing failure analysis expert is some 15 feet from my cubicle here at Defence. I wonder if proper fitting and installation would eliminate the failures. You'd think BMW has some level of QA.

 

Impact damage? The rear shock and tire absorb anything abrupt.

 

 

To say that your R80GS has the same loads is ridiculous. The bike is hundreds of pounds lighter, has about 1/2 the torque...

 

About one hundred pounds less compared to my GS Adventure. With the size of that bearing, that would be insignificant considering the little amount of offset of the wheel to the bearing, if any. I'll have to check on that tonight.

 

 

My vote for most of the failures goes to something called spralling which essentially is caused by impact denting the races which causes the balls to skid rather than roll.

 

I doubt that. Impact damage I would assume is most obvious in a stationary bearing as in steering head bearings. As mentioned, the shock and tire absorb anything abrupt.

 

I would like to see a slew of failed bearings and submit them to my co-worker. He'd be able to tell me why they failed and if they all failed for the same reason. What type of bearing is it?

 

I've been furtunate enough not have a failure yet and I'm doing all in my power to avoid one pre-maturely...frequent gear oil changes, using the specified oil and adding DC Gear Guard at 5%. What grade of gear oil are owners using? BMW NA sells 75-140 and owners are using it, yet is that specified in the owner's manual? I also tape up the rear drive vent when I wash my motorcycles. Are owners using a pressure washer?

[Global_Rider]

Yes. Ask BMW why their automotive rear drives that undergo far more loading last till the car dies...500,000 kms or more.

 

1. Because the final drive on a bimmer doesn't carry the weight of the car.

 

2. The bearings are optimally typed and sized for the task at hand.

 

Fair enough if the crown and pinion aren't failing...I thought they were, but it seems it is the big bearing that fails. Is that the only type of rear drive failure?

[Global_Rider]

Those drives that fail in the short term are probably victims of either poor assembly or improper clearance with the latter being the more likely culprit.

 

Unless I'm wrong, the rear drives have to be shimmed for proper bearing clearances and correct crown and pinion mating. I doubt they are slapped together.

 

 

That stubby thing looks pretty stiff but, the loads are really high in cornering. That wheel and tire make for a pretty good lever arm.

 

How much higher are the loads. From my flying days, loading (1.4G) didn't increase substantially till we hit 45 degrees of bank. I doubt we lean that far daily with a passenger and full luggage.

 

Lever arm? Where is the centerline of the tire with respect to the bearing?

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Alex,

The bearing is a standard ball bearing.

The impact loading, at least the initial, will not be taken by the shock or the tire. If the impact is abrupt enough, they will pass the load nearly as well as a solid steel bar.

The side loading is not from the offset of the tire with respect to the bearing but rather the twisting caused by cornering loads. You have only to look at the effort that goes into standard swing arm design to realize the extent of the loads and now look at the BMW design and see that the same loads are all passed by the bearing.

 

I wonder if a bearing with a deep groove form of the same dimensions might not hold up a good deal better.

 

The fit of this bearing has nothing to do with the fit of the ring and pinion gears. The bearing, in that mode, serves only to locate the ring gear. The pinion is moved in and out to obtain proper tooth engagement and shims are used to locate the crown wheel for backlash.

 

I don't have a selection of the bearins for failure analysis but, BMW wanted my entire assembly back for evaluation so you can bet they are doing some.

[Boffin]

My bike is in for a bearing change as I type. The bike is an '04 RT with 22k miles. The rear shock has also died, no leaks just poor damping and a set in the spring. Both are being replaced under warranty.

In my case the bearing failure is yet to manifiest itself as a collapse, just an oil weep and the distinctive sound of a loose bearing, changing under cornering, with right-handers sounding louder than left. My dealer is well aware of the issue and went straight to the bearing from my description of the noise.

I can ask the dealer for the old bearing and post it out to you if you like.

 

Cya, Andy

[Global_Rider]

I can ask the dealer for the old bearing and post it out to you if you like.

 

Cya, Andy

 

Thanks Andy, but the shipping to Canada might be pricey. Now if I could get a hold of a few locally.

 

Plus, it being a warranty claim, the dealer will want to keep it.

 

I guess the best place to get failed bearings would have been at the BMW MOA Rally...

 

You know, I really have to chuckle. Would I really take a BMW GS around the world? An early R80 G/S with a real swingarm, yes. I don't know about the newer generations.

[Global_Rider]

Alex,

The bearing is a standard ball bearing.

 

I wonder if a bearing with a deep groove form of the same dimensions might not hold up a good deal better.

 

The fit of this bearing has nothing to do with the fit of the ring and pinion gears. The bearing, in that mode, serves only to locate the ring gear. The pinion is moved in and out to obtain proper tooth engagement and shims are used to locate the crown wheel for backlash.

 

Well if it is subjected to side loads...a ball bearing isn't designed to take too much.

 

You mean a deep groove to provide more side area?

 

Oh, I thought they would shim that part as well in order to move the big gear left or right as needed, and also shim the pinion to move it fore and aft as needed...all for proper contact. I'll have to check the service CD...never needed to get into this...yet.

[Steve Kolenda]

The information that I have found, indicates that the bearing is a tapered roller bearing and not a ball bearing. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Clive Liddell]

Alex, you wrote

"Oh, I thought they would shim that part as well in order to move the big gear left or right as needed, and also shim the pinion to move it fore and aft as needed...all for proper contact. I'll have to check the service CD...never needed to get into this...yet."

 

Yes there are a slew of the large shims available for positioning the "crown" wheel. They don't show on ETK until you click on the number in the diagram.

 

Also, Alex, what comments does your "bearing" friend have on the use of the "gear lube" additive you, and many others are using WRT the bearings? Just wondering what exact reason you are using the additive?

[ShovelStrokeEd]

OK, Steve,

 

You are wrong.

 

So, apparently, from BMW's nomenclature, am I. They list the bearing as "Grooved Ball Bearing 85x120x18" which would indicate to me a deep groove form factor. Shows they were thinking of the side loads, at least. The bearing you are referring to is on the other end of the shaft and has a much lower failure rate.

That bearing is a tapered roller, funny, as they are usually listed as two separate parts, the cup and the bearing. That is not to say that BMW is forced to stay with conventional nomenclature. It is also likely that some terminology is different between German and English and we don't always get the best interpretation.

[Steve Kolenda]

Thanks, I was obviously looking at the wrong bearing.

[Global_Rider]

Yes there are a slew of the large shims available for positioning the "crown" wheel. They don't show on ETK until you click on the number in the diagram.

 

Also, Alex, what comments does your "bearing" friend have on the use of the "gear lube" additive you, and many others are using WRT the bearings? Just wondering what exact reason you are using the additive?

 

Clive, I had a look at the BMW service CD. I noted it had shims at both the big "grooved ball bearing" and the smaller "taper roller bearing" to position the crown gear. The same applies to the pinion; a set of shims to position it as well.

 

I never asked him about the additive. His usual line is that a bearing lasts very long if it is chosen correctly and installed correctly (you don't handle bearings without gloves, you don't hammer a bearing in place and you press the correct half; either the outer or inner race)

 

I've been using Dow Corning M Gear additive since my days of airhead ownership due to BMW omitting the transmission shaft "circlip" from about the mid 80's onwards.

 

I recently bought a 2003 and 2004 R1150 GS Adventure. I do all my own servicing including the initial 1000 km inspection. On both GS Adventures, the rear drive lube that I drained came out pitch black. Gear oil hardly changes color, even with high mileage and certainly not at 1000 kilometers or 600 miles. So there is no question in my mind that BMW started to add a Molybdenum Disulphide additive...something like MolySlip MoS2 Manual Transmission Supplement. I mix in the DC M Gear additive at 5% to my gear oil.

 

So why am I using it? Well BMW did and there is a rear drive bearing issue and I'm trying to put off failure as long as I can.

[AndyS]

Boffin, It is interesting you say that your rear shock and rear bearing have gone. So too have mine. The rear shock was dead by 13000 miles but warranty replaced at 16000. The bearing gave up (ie started whining and leaking oil) at 18000 mile (oddly enough while in a nice hot france with loads of winding mountain roads - lovely!)

AndyS

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

The side loading is not from the offset of the tire with respect to the bearing but rather the twisting caused by cornering loads. You have only to look at the effort that goes into standard swing arm design to realize the extent of the loads and now look at the BMW design and see that the same loads are all passed by the bearing.

 

The big bearing (all the bearings in there, really) is also subject to extremely heavy radial and thrust loads from the pinion gear when under heavy acceleration. In exerting torque on the hub's ring gear, the pinion gear also tries to push it away; the big bearing must resist this thrust force. Consider:

 

-engine peak torque, 95 N*m

-1st gear ratio, 4.163

====> peak torque on pinion gear, 395 N*m

 

pinion pitch radius (from memory) is about 3 centimeters

===> pinion tooth force, 13,183 Newtons (2964 pounds)

 

So the big bearing has to resist nearly 3000 pounds of radial force during peak acceleration. Not only that, but because of the angle of contact between gear teeth, a significant thrust force on that big bearing is also developed. I don't have all of the parameters in front of me, but working from memory, the geometry happens to look pretty similar to an example problem appearing in a textbook I have, so I'll go with their percentages: the axial load on the big bearing (due to the gear action) is probabably about 10% of the radial load, so about 300 pounds thrust load on the big bearing during peak acceleration. Problem is, it's all localized in the area where the pinion engages the ring gear.

 

Thrust loading of the big bearing associated with vehicle weight/cornering in the RT's final drive is not due solely to the offset of the wheel relative to the bearing so much as it's due to the presence of the tapered roller bearing on the other end. If you instead had another radial ball bearing unit there, there'd be no axial loads on those bearings (unless you hang way off in the turns); but a radial load on that tapered roller bearing (which, yes, is due to wheel load being offset relative to the big bearing) produces a thrust load that must be countered by the big bearing.

 

A rough estimate:

-left turn, 45 degrees bank; contact patch near left chicken strip, axial offset from big bearing is about 6 inches

-loading while banked is 1.414 times the static rear-wheel load (2/3 of vehicle weight, ~550 lb?), so ~770 pounds

======>twisting moment is 389 foot-pounds

-tapered roller bearing offset from ring gear is about 3 inches, so radial load from tapered bearing (to resist twisting moment) is 1500 pounds

-taper angle is 15 degrees

========> thrust load to be resisted by big bearing during severe left cornering is ~400 pounds

 

Note that the thrust loading is worst during hard left cornering (contact patch near left edge of tire), moderate during straight riding, and practically nonexistent during hard right cornering (contact patch near right edge of tire, contact patch force points pretty much straight through the big bearing).

 

The thrust load due to acceleration and the thrust load due to cornering are independent and additive.

 

These are all back-of-the-napkin calculations, but I think we're talking about the right order of magnitude.

[Boffin]

Boffin, It is interesting you say that your rear shock and rear bearing have gone. So too have mine. The rear shock was dead by 13000 miles but warranty replaced at 16000. The bearing gave up (ie started whining and leaking oil) at 18000 mile (oddly enough while in a nice hot france with loads of winding mountain roads - lovely!)

AndyS

My failures first raised their heads in Scotland - unseasonably warm and sunny mountain roads. I have however, just finished talking to the head technician at the dealer who tells me that it is not the rear bearing that has failed but the gearbox output shaft bearing. He also said the wheel bearing would not be a surprise, but the gearbox bearing was. He also said he is replacing all the gearbox bearings and seals as the oil was contaminated with metal. I now get my bike back on Thursday (they are closed on Wednesdays).

 

Meanwhile I still have one of their many loan bikes, A F650CS as they were out of RTs.

 

Cya, Andy

[firemac3]

My final drive died at 12k 50mi from home returning from a 5k trip. I called the mechanic at the dealership. He said "make sure its really broke". I made it to 17mi from home until all progress stopped. The bike spent the night in a guys barn. 50k on the clock now. All is well.

 

Mac

[Global_Rider]

These are all back-of-the-napkin calculations, but I think we're talking about the right order of magnitude.

 

Mitch, nice work, but as a consumer, I and many others don't care what the rear end is subject to. That is BMW's problem and their business to deliver a sound engineered product. Failed bearings at the mileages I've seen reported on forums is unacceptable.

 

The bottom line is that we care about the rear end not failing, especially when on a tour far from home.

[Michael Derby]

Wow - How freaky is that, my final drive just blew in Highlands NC on 7/24 with the EXACT same miles on it. 22,350.

 

That's weird. And also weird that there are so many crown bearing issues, my dealer told me it was a VERY rare issue to have happen at such low miles.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

These are all back-of-the-napkin calculations, but I think we're talking about the right order of magnitude.

 

Mitch, nice work, but as a consumer, I and many others don't care what the rear end is subject to. That is BMW's problem and their business to deliver a sound engineered product. Failed bearings at the mileages I've seen reported on forums is unacceptable.

 

My point (mostly for Ed, I guess) was that thrust loads on the big bearing incurred during cornering are calculable and aren't that huge when compared next to thrust loads incurred by gear action during acceleration. I'm sure all of what I described was discussed with far greater detail/accuracy during the development phase.

 

Given those numbers, I'm inclined to go with the explanation Ed used to provide (what happened, Ed?): incorrect selection of spacers during assembly results in chronic high thrust load on the ring bearing. More of a manufacturing problem than a design problem (not that that matters to us consumers...).

[STL RT Rider]

I have to chime in here. Mine's going in to have the seal and possibly the bearing replaced on Thursday. 18,500 mi.

 

I agree that when you pay this much for a bike that is supposedly bulletproof, you don't want to deal with this kinda stuff. Mine may be going up for sale soon ... while it still has warranty left.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

Pretty cool, Mitch.

 

Had a tough day at work where I actually had to do some. 2 instruments suddenly deciding to go 10% off spec and every test I can devise shows them to be perfect. Tomorrow should be interesting to say the least.

 

The thrust load dealo makes too much sense to ignore. Ditto the idea its a manufacturing problem rather than one of engineering although, IMHO, the bearings are maybe just barely in range. It would explain why the 1100S is underrepresented in terms of failures even though it has a higher output. Much less mass and different transmission gearing (taller).

 

I still get a laugh out of folks who think that just because they bought a BMW, and payed through the nose for it, the bike will be flawless and "bulletproof". Welcome to the real world, where doodoo do happen.

[BMT]

To get back to the thread ...

 

What's the latest, Russ?

[Global_Rider]

Given those numbers, I'm inclined to go with the explanation Ed used to provide (what happened, Ed?): incorrect selection of spacers during assembly results in chronic high thrust load on the ring bearing. More of a manufacturing problem than a design problem (not that that matters to us consumers...).

 

I'm glad you didn't take my reply the wrong way.

 

In any case, if this happens to me out-of-warranty, I'll be doing the rear drive rebuild myself. I have the time to do it right (got spare BMWs to ride during the rebuild).

 

My "bearing expert" co-worker seems to think one of the reasons for the failures is shimming for the correct amount of play. Just by my description he claims the bearing is more than adequate, size-wise.

 

Would two tapper bearings to hold the crown gear have been better...if there was room?

[bart_vanreeth]

Russ,

 

I had my share of problems that happened just out of warranty (when I bought mine in '01 BMW only gave 12 months). Had a broken exhaust valve at 26.000 km & a broken spline shaft thing at 40.000 km. In both cases there was discussion, I tried to get 100 %, even the word Honda felt.. , but dealer only could give a 50/50 arrangement on the working hours. I didn't have to pay for the parts. Maybe BMW France will react similar to BMW Belgium ? Some call Belgium "France light" thats already a simularity...

[RussInParis]

Well, I had a few delays getting the bike to the dealer; the insurance company phoned back monday and said the bike wasn't delivered yet because the Assistance people couldn't find a dealer willing to take it! It seems several were either on holidays or about to take holidays and didn't want to be bothered with yet another motorcycle to make money off. (The French are VERY serious about their vacations...)

 

So I had to call a dealer that I knew in Grenoble who agreed to take it. I then phoned the insurance company who phoned the Assistance people to relay the information. The Assistance people took the information and promptly waited another day because they were too busy (they said). To their credit, they did tell me they took the motorcycle off the truck and stored it inside while the rain storms went through their area, which was nice.

 

Thus, it was only about an hour ago that I finally got a call from the chief mechanic at the Grenoble shop. The verdict was as I feared: Bearings failed, taking out the Final Drive, which took out the rear brake disc and possibly the caliper as well. All that from no more than 1.5kms of coasting back down the hill at 15kmh.

 

He estimated parts at about 1400 euros, and said there would be "significant" labour, not so much because of the rear end, but because of the brakes which would require taking off the plastic, replacing fluid, bleeding, etc. He didn't want to give me a firm estimate because he had only looked at it briefly before he called. I said I didn't think this was normal in an RT with 35,000kms but he said he'd already seen the same thing in bikes with less. (!?!) I said I would call BMW France and see if they would help in any way.

 

I was impressed by my call to BMW France Customer Service; the lady was polite, didn't pass me off to other people (I always hate that), explained clearly what the procedure was, and took all my info over the phone to pass on to someone to follow up on. She said that someone would call the dealer early next week to get more details and then they would call me back with a decision. I mentioned that this was perfect for me (especially if they pay for it all!), but that this dealer too was closing for two weeks starting next week, and she said she would put a note on that someone needed to call before the end of the week. (I always find that somehow ironic that French motorcycle dealers close their shops in summer for holidays) Not bad if it all happens this way...

 

Of course the most important thing is if they will do the Right Thing. Our last service was at 33,000kms, just before leaving in June, so it's not like no one had a chance to see that something was funny with the rear bearings. (although I notice that the maintenance schedule doesn't have anything about checking these at the 30K service, just the 20k and 40k).

 

So now we wait and see what will happen.

 

We had something similar happen to my first BMW, a K75 where the final drive sheared in the middle of Nowheresville, Spain. In that case I thought it somewhat odd, but that bike had over 90,000kms on it.

 

This rear end failure I find very annoying, as we bought this RT new especially so we could have something we could count on and would last.

 

Russ

[bart_vanreeth]

as we bought this RT new especially so we could have something we could count on and would last.

 

That's exactly how I felt Russ. Before my gearbox broke down I had a blind faith in that machine. Now I'm always worried when I hear an odd noise or feel a strange vibration. And let's be honest at that kind of mileage things like that shouldn't happen. Good luck with the negotiations.

[RussInParis]

Good luck with the negotiations.

 

Just got off the phone with the BMW France representative. It wasn't so much negotiation as him telling me what they will do; the factory will cover 80% of the parts, and we have to pay the balance plus the labour. They figure this should cover about 75% of the total bill, so we will probably need to pay about 300 or so euros to get a new Final Drive, new disk and caliper.

 

Considering the RT was almost exactly one year out of warranty, I'm pleased with their offer. They were very professional and efficient as well.

 

We'll be taking the train down to Grenoble to pick it up last week of August and first thing I want to do is that pesky Col de l'Iseran!!

 

Russ

[Marty Hill]

Good news!

[RussInParis]

Yup! BTW, I asked about the ABS recall and the mechanic asked if "I'd got my letter yet", which I haven't. He said I should be getting it soon, and when I do, it would be good to do that at the same time as they do the other work.

 

So the dealers are aware of the ABS III brake recall/inspection.

 

Russ

[Francois_Dumas]

Hi Russ..... WOW !!!

 

I went OVER the Iseran on the 31st of July.. blissfully unaware of your problems .... sorry !

 

Where were you when in happened, on the Maurienne side of the pass? We drove over from Val d'Isère. Pictures of what you sadly missed to follow. Not to make you envious, just as another reason to 'go'!

 

Nina thought the Iseran was a LOT scarier when we did it in our Landrover Discovery many years ago. She hasn't figured out why, yet. Perhaps being seated so high, on the right side of the road and NOT seeing there was still space between the wheels (and HER) and the abyss...

 

The Iseran was a nice (and always impressive) pass to ride.... the Madeleine is a lot more difficult and scary at some points though.

 

I hope you'll get everything sorted soon and at not too high a price. Sounds like BMW did the right thing there ! I am starting to ponder of changing my bike beofre warranty runs out (wasn't the plan, I thought I'd ride it for the next 10 years or so .... ).

 

Kind regards,

Francois