2002 servo failure

[graham2400]

I know a lot has been written about these brakes recently, but I thought I’d share my real life example with you.

 

Last week I turned on my ignition on my 2002, 25,500 mile R1150 RT and the upper “brake failure” light came on permanently, i.e no flashing. No servo, residual brakes only – yes, very rubbish and dangerous. The lower red light didn’t come on. The rear brake light did not illuminate when the levers were pressed. There was no indication of an impending problem the last time I rode it.

 

I took the plastic and tank off to look for anything obvious e.g wire chaffing but found nothing. I think I know what the problem is. (servo brain dead)

 

Took it to Williams Manchester (where I bought it, new) for a Moditec Diagnostic check. After ½ hour the tech informs me the Moditec can’t read the fault codes, it may be a bike power supply problem. This, for some reason cheers me up a bit. I give permission for further investigative work. After another hour, tech declares the servo unit ‘completely dead’ “I’ve never seen one of these before” says he.

 

Without any external sign of embarrassment, the service manager gives me a price to fix it … £1,300 fitted. I appeal – bought the bike from you, it’s a very rare failure (according to your tech), not fair wear and tear etc. etc. He says …. Sorry, beyond the period of goodwill after your warranty expired. Bike is 3 and a bit years old.

 

OK I thought, if this is a rare event, there’ll be plenty of servo units sitting on the shelves of the bike breakers. Don’t you believe it ! Phoned all the main UK BMW second hand parts dealers – No Joy anywhere. Had a good chat with the man from Sherlocks who said he has noticed a big increase in the demand for these units over the last 9 months – could it be built in obsolescence ?

 

So, what I’m faced with is a sudden unexpected failure, that I can’t fix myself, that makes the bike unrideable and cost 25% of the current value of the (3 year old) bike to fix. This could equally apply to the R, RS, GSA, 1200 etc which also use servo brakes. It doesn’t take a genius to work out what will happen to second hand values with a time bomb like this. If the Sherlock man’s observation is true, it’s happening a fair bit more than the dealers would have you believe.

 

Much as I love the RT, I personally feel the established impression of BMW aftercare and long term reliability is actually a myth, and I don’t think my next bike will be a BM

 

Here’s hoping your bike lives to old age without problems.

 

Regards,

 

Graham

 

PS Without any external sign of embarrassment, the service manager gives me a bill for £88 for telling me the servo is dead.

[David]

At least you discovered it when you were stopped.

[bmwmick]

At least you discovered it when you were stopped.

 

OUCH! That one is gonna leave a mark David.

 

The sad part is, he can't even disconnect the ABS unit and have normal brakes like on the ABS-II bikes.

 

Mick

[Cali Kid]

So, what I’m faced with is a sudden unexpected failure, that I can’t fix myself, that makes the bike unrideable and cost 25% of the current value of the (3 year old) bike to fix....Much as I love the RT, I personally feel the established impression of BMW aftercare and long term reliability is actually a myth...

 

I share your sentiments. Interestingly, my 02RT had brake problems (not complete failure) while still in warranty. Most all the components of the brake system were eventually replaced (including the main servo). The idea of this failing again with a very large repair bill, is a consideration. This is one of the reasons I would prefer standard brakes, and one of the reasons I am planning on replacing the RT. I think the BMW myth may eventually fade as things like rear drive, spline and brake problems continue to surface. BMW is now a bottom-line, sales not service company, with poor quality controls, IMHO.

[270]

I put this idea out on another list and it got po po'd a little, but...

 

Building a clean little kit to remove the the servo/abs set-up would not be difficult and should be within the reach of most do it yourselfers...if you can blead brakes and turn a wrench, you should be able to do this.

 

I'd be lying if I said this didn't scare the poopy out of me for the future.

[EdinLA44]

Have it inspected as part of the new free inspection that BMW plans to offer for brake failures. (see the *Breaking News from BMW* thread in the Sport Touring folder).

 

Maybe it will get replaced that way. It sure looks like a warranty issue to me. Keep up the pressure and take it to BMW AG in Germany if need be.

[Bob Palin]

You can get rid of the whole servo nonsense, Tweety Byrd of this board has done exactly that including removing ABS and linking. But I agree, first have it inspected by BMW.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

What Killer said.

You can mail order a set of brake lines and do the job in your driveway. You will lose the ABS and the servo boost but, with a little bit of practice you will be fine. Think really about the last time you really needed to brake hard enough to engage the ABS and then think, objectively please, about what your other options were and whether or not you exercised them. ABS is a good thing in many cases. Avoiding the need for it is better.

[John Bentall]

OK I thought, if this is a rare event, there’ll be plenty of servo units sitting on the shelves of the bike breakers. Don’t you believe it ! Phoned all the main UK BMW second hand parts dealers – No Joy anywhere. Had a good chat with the man from Sherlocks who said he has noticed a big increase in the demand for these units over the last 9 months – could it be built in obsolescence ?

 

 

 

When I talked to breaker about an ABS control unit for my 1100RT the reply was that, since they seldom fail, they won't have them cluttering up the place.

 

Seriously though, do talk to Russell at Bemer Bikes 0208 550 9200.

[John Bentall]

Of course, the other option is to threaten BMW UK with talking to your local press about all the dangerous BMW motorcycles in the UK.

[SC_Jack]

I didn't have a total servo failure but I PM'd Tweety Bird and then had a long phone conversation with him when I had my 02 RT because I just didn't like the linked servo brakes and could not adjust to them. I found out that he spent $2k to remove/replace the ABS system. He said that it was not a simple matter. You need a different brake resovoir and some custom made lines (no kits are presently available) and getting the tail-light to function (it's a micro switch that is activated through the ABS system) requires someone with advanced, electronic, technical skills.

I decided that I wasn't gonna spend $2k just to get rid of the linked, servo brakes so I sold my bike. And Yes, I told the new owner why I was selling it.

[Rundio]

My 2004 RT brakes failed and the part has been discontinued with none available in the US or AG and a new part number has been issued and has to be approved via a warranty rep which takes 2 weeks by the time they figured out I wasn't lying. Beware that when the lights come on sometimes the brakes will work and then without warning there are virtually no brakes. My rear brakes failed completely. They can't deny there is a defect.

 

Columbus Dispatch Article

[stu650]

Last week I turned on my ignition on my 2002, 25,500 mile R1150 RT and the upper “brake failure” light came on permanently, i.e no flashing. No servo, residual brakes only – yes, very rubbish and dangerous.

 

I have just had exactlty the same problem on my May 2004 1150RT. It left me stranded 100 miles from home last night. Today it has gone back to the dealers and I am eagerly awaiting their findings.

[graham2400]

Stu,

 

luckily, your's will still be under warranty ! I've spent a lot of web time and phonecalls but upto now, not been able to track a second hand one down yet. Will keep the post updated. I am seriously thinking of going the 'conventional brakes' route, but will give it a week or two.

 

Looking on the bright side, if I can get a GS ADV or an RS unit, I'll have the partially integrated brakes I always wanted on this bike.

 

Trust the thing to break during some good riding weather !

 

Regards,

 

Graham.

[steveknapp]

Graham,

 

If it's THAT dead I'd consider taking it to someone who knows electronics and spent some time diagnosing it. It would be a shame to spend that much money on such a device only to find that it's a bad solder joint inside the box or some such.

[J Mart]

There seems to be quite a trend building here. My ABS unit (2004RT) failed a month or so ago (posted on it a while back). My symptoms sounded a lot like Rundio's. My bike is still under warranty, but it took about a week and a half to get the part. Shop mechanic said he'd never seen this failure before, but that my bike made two currently on hand with the same problem. They finally got my ABS module in ($1,405, according to Chicago BMW), but that one was defective. Got another in and replaced it. I have to say, the brakes don't feel quite as grabby as they used to (not uncomfortably so, though), which might lend credence to Rundio's new part info. Is this a true trend, or are people just paying more attention to ABS/servo issues? Inquiring minds want to know.

[graham2400]

If it's THAT dead I'd consider taking it to someone who knows electronics and spent some time diagnosing it. It would be a shame to spend that much money on such a device only to find that it's a bad solder joint inside the box or some such.

 

===========================================================

 

Steve,

 

The BM techs confirmed my intuition (at a price!). Have you ever been unfortunate enough to sample the indescribable smell of major fried electronics (a mixture of burnt plastics, ozone and pungent dog sh!t?).

 

Well, that's the smell you get when you take the multi-pin connector off the Servo unit and have a sniff.

 

Sadly, the unit comes as a complete assembly including all the hydraulics, so you can't just buy a new electronics bit. It's more than likely potted as well, making electronic dignosis/repair impossible. When I get a new one, I'll take the old one to bits and let you all know.

 

Regards

 

Graham

[steveknapp]

The BM techs confirmed my intuition (at a price!). Have you ever been unfortunate enough to sample the indescribable smell of major fried electronics (a mixture of burnt plastics, ozone and pungent dog sh!t?).

 

Yes, but it's never my fault. Actually really big failures like that are easier to find. Look for the black chared bit.

 

I've noticed a trend away from potted electronics. It might be well sealed, and it might be covered with some sticky conformal coating to protect the board.

 

Any way you look at it, I'm quite interested in what you or anyone else can find. Heck, if anyone has a dead one they don't mind parting with, shoot it my way, I'd love to have a look and report back.

[baggerchris]

Holy cow! The Horse is not only not dead, but rizen from the ashes ala a Phoenix! Have you PM'd Ophra Hazard? This may be the smoking gun he has been ranting about, and that a lot of people over here are saying doesn't exist.

[ghaverkamp]

Holy cow! The Horse is not only not dead, but rizen from the ashes ala a Phoenix! Have you PM'd Ophra Hazard? This may be the smoking gun he has been ranting about, and that a lot of people over here are saying doesn't exist.

 

The smoking gun proving that motorcycle parts fail?

 

Greg

[Stately]

I am extremely dubious about this whole issue.

It's worthj noting that there is currently an internet scam being perpetrated by by one particular individual from Germany.

Interestingly Graham.

I tried to email you on the address given for a more in depth analysis of your particular problem and hopefully talk to the dealer in question.

The mail was bounced back as "not recognized"

Sorry but something very fishy going on here.

[baggerchris]

This whole thing may be a scam as you infer, but then again, maybe not. Brakes are something that need to work everytime, all the time. Over the past 100 years, our present system has been fine tuned and works very well. On the other hand, any radical advance in mechanics has a period of transition and trial, wherein the "bugs" are worked out. It will be interesting to see how this all shakes out what with the German investigation and all. Let's hope that BMW is up to the task, and doesn't bury it's collective head as it has done so many times in the past. BMW's offer to evaluate 260,000 bikes seems like a step in the right direction. What I think we are all after here is a trouble-free reliable system. I hope we have it. Time will tell.

[steveknapp]

It's worthj noting that there is currently an internet scam being perpetrated by by one particular individual from Germany.

 

So anyone who has a brake question/problem is now a member of Oprah's church?

[Stately]

I'm just saying be careful folks.

I own a BMW R1200CL which is equipped with the integral ABS feature, and have as much reason to be concerned as anyone else.

The reason I am not is because I am exposing a very convincing scam originating from Germany.

I'm convinced that there is someone doing this for greed and financial gain.

Think about it.

Almost all BMW's are now sold with Intgral ABS.

One of these is the R1150/1200 GS, which is currently the UK's top seller in the 1000cc+ category.

Do you really believe that a design / manufacturing fault as serious as this would not be out in the media by now ?

Of course it would.

Folks, there are some very cunning people at work here trying to invoke panic amongst BMW owners and we must not play into there hands.

Graham.

Still waiting to hear from you in relation to your particular problem, and the BMW dealer you consulted with.

[David]

Almost all BMW's are now sold with Intgral ABS.

One of these is the R1150/1200 GS, which is currently the UK's top seller in the 1000cc+ category.

 

You are confusing things. ABS isn't "integrated" or "partial." It's braking thats described that way, and neither GS has "integral" anything. They have "partially integrated" brakes and full ABS (though that's an option).

 

Do you really believe that a design / manufacturing fault as serious as this would not be out in the media by now ?

Of course it would.

 

I have no trouble believing the opposite.

[270]

$10US says more trannys failed on '02 oilheads than servo systems. Anyone wanna bet? Oh, I know, it's not the same thing as the brakes are a safety item...still, we're talking about expensive failures, right?

[Stately]

Sorry

Typo error.

My bike is descibed as being fitted with Integral ABS but of course ABS is an option.

It is highly unlikely that BMW would have continued fitting there bikes with servo's had they recognised a problem.All the latest generation bikes like the K1200S/R, R1200ST etc. have been fitted with servo's,(albeit a slightly modified version).

There have indded been issues relating to the fully integrated system.

I have one or two myself, but that is worlds away from declaring a dangerous flaw.

There are some dangerous people out there looking to profit out of this.

I'm gathering evidence and will publish my conclusions as soon as I'm 100% confident but have no doubt that the people behind this scam will simply move onto another one if it fails.

The internet has opened up a whole new world for the professional nuisance.

[russell_bynum]

It is highly unlikely that BMW would have continued fitting there bikes with servo's had they recognised a problem.

 

LOL!!!!!!

 

BMW has a long history of final drive problems and just now revised the design of the final drive.

 

BMW Oilheads have a long history of surging and that wasn't addressed until the '04 twinspark (half-assed solution), and the new hexhead.

 

BMW Oilheads have a long history of transmission input shaft spline failures and there STILL has not been anything done to address that.

 

BMW is very good at ignoring problems, pretending they don't exist, saying that everything is functioning as designed, and generally being arrogant bastages.

 

To pretend that BMW would handle brake problems any differently is nothing short of a fairy-tale fantasy.

[ghaverkamp]

Almost all BMW's are now sold with Intgral ABS.

One of these is the R1150/1200 GS, which is currently the UK's top seller in the 1000cc+ category.

 

You are confusing things. ABS isn't "integrated" or "partial." It's braking thats described that way, and neither GS has "integral" anything. They have "partially integrated" brakes and full ABS (though that's an option).

 

That's incorrect, David.

 

And one of the symptoms of the problems I've tried to point out that seems to have labeled me a BMW apologist.

 

"Integral ABS" is the power-assisted braking system with ABS. It comes in two forms, "Partial Integral" and "Partial Integrated" (I'm pretty sure I've seen both in BMW literature) and "Fully Integral." (which is how I believe I've always seen it.)

 

EVO (which I recognize didn't come up here) has nothing to do with the power assist, other than the fact that BMW EVO brakes are used as the front brakes on every BMW motorcycle with Integral ABS.

 

So, it is true that most (especially in the US) of BMW's bikes are sold with Integral ABS. It's also true that all GS's with the power-assisted brakes have Integral ABS.

 

Greg

[steveknapp]

Greg, you're correct. EVO is the rotors and calipers. MCN made this very clear in their review of the K1200S.

 

I don't see why the frequency of failures matters here. The OP was telling us that he had a failure.

 

Threads about brakes are NOT always OH porn.

 

A problem does not need to be widespread in order to be discussed on this forum. I've never had many of the "common" issues on this forum.

 

I hope the OP gets to keep his dead servo unit. I'm curious what failed.

[graham2400]

Dear Stately,

 

My E mail address is somewhat out of date and I've just changed it. I'm only an occasional poster here but if you check out my post history I was here long before Dr Brake (or whatever he's called this month) surfaced.

 

I'm just an ordinary RT rider who is now out of warranty, and now without a bike, with a pontius pilate dealer. It's especially annoying given the good weather we're having. Note I've nothing to say about servo failure on the move (It's all been said before).

 

I Just think a £1,300 repair bill is totally unacceptable on a three and a bit year old bike. I have done an extensive trawl in the UK for a second hand part (Sherlock's, Motorbins, Motorworks etc.) and they all say yes, they have had R1150RT's in for breaking but no, they haven't got the part. That must tell you there is a keen demand for these servo's once the warranty period is over.

 

I accept that there are probably less RT's in the breakers than R1's but that in itself is cause for concern:- as the RT fleet gets older and if servo failure rates even stay as they are, there'l be more owners looking for second hand servo units than are available.

 

I'll keep you all posted.

 

Regards

 

Graham.

[David]

That's incorrect, David.

 

And one of the symptoms of the problems I've tried to point out that seems to have labeled me a BMW apologist.

 

"Integral ABS" is the power-assisted braking system with ABS. It comes in two forms, "Partial Integral" and "Partial Integrated" (I'm pretty sure I've seen both in BMW literature) and "Fully Integral." (which is how I believe I've always seen it.)

 

You have a source with that exact language? I am interested in seeing it, but regardless, the common practice (on this site, anyway) is to refer to braking as partially integrated or fully integrated, and that's not a statement about the presence or absence of ABS.

[Ken/OC]

...the common practice (on this site, anyway) is to refer to braking as partially integrated or fully integrated, and that's not a statement about the presence or absence of ABS.

 

However ... does BMW produce a partially- or fully-integrated brake system without at least the on-demand option of ABS? Just checking.

[ghaverkamp]

That's incorrect, David.

 

And one of the symptoms of the problems I've tried to point out that seems to have labeled me a BMW apologist.

 

"Integral ABS" is the power-assisted braking system with ABS. It comes in two forms, "Partial Integral" and "Partial Integrated" (I'm pretty sure I've seen both in BMW literature) and "Fully Integral." (which is how I believe I've always seen it.)

 

You have a source with that exact language? I am interested in seeing it, but regardless, the common practice (on this site, anyway) is to refer to braking as partially integrated or fully integrated, and that's not a statement about the presence or absence of ABS.

 

I'm not sure how much precision you want; "partially integrated" is used in this one. The BMW sites I normally visit don't seem to be handing me anything in the content frame.

 

I'm not fussy about talking about partially integrated or fully integrated. However, "Integral ABS" is the system; just go look at any of the specs. I assume maybe all of these words mean more in their German varieties. BMW likes EVO, Integral (K100 and K75 bags were "Integral Cases"), and System. Maybe we should send them word-a-day toilet paper or something.

 

Greg

[David]

However ... does BMW produce a partially- or fully-integrated brake system without at least the on-demand option of ABS? Just checking.

 

Not sure what you mean by on-demand, Ken. But looking at BMW's (sorry-ass) website, here's the description of their brakes:

 

R1200GS: BMW EVO partial-integral ABS

 

Rockster: EVO, front and rear disc with optional ABS

 

F650 Dakar: Front and rear disc with optional ABS

 

R1150RT: BMW EVO with full integral ABS

 

From that, I would gather than EVO is an R or K term and the distinction between "partial-integral" and "full integral" is lever actuation. In other words, the ABS on the R1200GS is not partial--it's the integration that's partial. And you can see that from the hyphens, too.

 

What am I missing, Greg?

[ghaverkamp]

From that, I would gather than EVO is an R or K term and the distinction between "partial-integral" and "full integral" is lever actuation. In other words, the ABS on the R1200GS is not partial--it's the integration that's partial. And you can see that from the hyphens, too.

 

What am I missing, Greg?

 

Well, for one, looking at a BMWNA site. They never can seem to focus on their terms.

 

The don't hypenate on the specs page for the R1200GS, though, and they capitalize the "I":

BMW EVO partial Integral ABS (switchable)

 

Similar for the RT:

BMW EVO with full Integral ABS

 

The F650's don't use Integral ABS. It's typical BMWNA crap with the Rockster's description. They've changed how they refer to the brakes countless times. What they really need to do is stop crafting these names in Germany with English words.

 

I don't even know where you picked up those hypens. They're not in the specs.

 

Nonetheless, the brochure-ware site is hardly the place to get these details. Far better is in the owner's manuals (though I recognize that's sometimes iffy) and the service manuals. On their European websites, they even have, in places my browsers seem unable to tread today, some very nice breakdowns of all the terms.

 

Greg

[David]

I don't even know where you picked up those hypens. They're not in the specs.

 

Off their official website. Everything I put in there is quoted without modifcation. If you don't believe me, go check yourself. Go to the bmwmotorcycles.com web site, then click "machines," then select the model, then select "specifications," then roll over the fourth globe at the bottom left.

 

Nonetheless, the brochure-ware site is hardly the place to get these details.

 

Why, because they don't agree with your statement?

 

Whatever. It's not partial EVO. It's not partial ABS. It's partial integration. That seems clear from the hyphenation and just pure logic.

 

Then again, it's late and I might be missing the entire picture.

 

Good night.

[ghaverkamp]

Off their official website. Everything I put in there is quoted without modifcation. If you don't believe me, go check yourself. Go to the bmwmotorcycles.com web site, then click "machines," then select the model, then select "specifications," then roll over the fourth globe at the bottom left.

 

Well, I pulled mine directly from their site, too. Again, the NA people don't know what they're doing. Look at standard features.

 

 

Whatever. It's not partial EVO. It's not partial ABS. It's partial integration. That seems clear from the hyphenation and just pure logic.

 

Who ever said it was partial EVO? EVO braking is a new front brake caliper and disc design, as Steve already noted.

 

Then again, it's late and I might be missing the entire picture.

 

You laid into Stately for saying, "Almost all BMW's are now sold with Intgral(sic) ABS."

 

Regardless of hyphenations in specifications describing the functions of the system, the standard equipment lists Integral ABS, which is what the servo-assisted ABS system is called. It comes in two varieties, one with partially integrated brakes, the other with fully integrated brakes.

 

Despite what you may believe, your R1200GS with servo-assisted brakes has Integral ABS. You can disagree with that, but you'll still be wrong. (Languaged intended to be matter-of-fact, but not angry.)

 

Greg

[David]

Regardless of hyphenations in specifications describing the functions of the system, the standard equipment lists Integral ABS, which is what the servo-assisted ABS system is called. It comes in two varieties, one with partially integrated brakes, the other with fully integrated brakes.

 

Despite what you may believe, your R1200GS with servo-assisted brakes has Integral ABS. You can disagree with that, but you'll still be wrong. (Languaged intended to be matter-of-fact, but not angry.)

 

Excellent. Thanks for clearing that up. BMW is wrong. I'm wrong. "Intregral" and "integrated" are interchangeable. And "integral" is a meaningless term that's always bound to occur with "ABS" and has no reference to the linking. That ABS is "integral" is like saying "water is wet."

 

Again, what does "partial" and "integral" mean in these descriptions, taken off BMW's web site:

 

R1200GS: BMW EVO partial-integral ABS

 

R1150RT: BMW EVO with full integral ABS

 

Are you saying the partial refers to ABS? Let's assume that integral means that ABS is integral. If that's the case we could temporarily drop that term. If we do, though, it makes no sense.

 

Ah. This is what happens when marketing people write technical literature!

[ghaverkamp]

 

Are you saying the partial refers to ABS? Let's assume that integral means that ABS is integral. If that's the case we could temporarily drop that term. If we do, though, it makes no sense.

 

Ah. This is what happens when marketing people write technical literature!

 

No. I think that partial or full is what I've said several times already: typical BMWNA web incompetence. It strikes me that someone, thinking they were pretty smart, took the form from the Standard Equipment and tried to clean it up.

 

Greg

[steveknapp]

EVO - bling calipers and rotors

Integral - the servo boost thing (this makes not sense)

ABS - Um...ABS..

 

This is as described in a good number of reviews of the bike. Including the K1200S review in this months MCN.

[TPadden]

No. I think that partial or full is what I've said several times already: typical BMWNA web incompetence. It strikes me that someone, thinking they were pretty smart, took the form from the Standard Equipment and tried to clean it up.

 

Greg

 

Damn - this is one confusing thread about something that I THOUGHT was simple; integrated has nothing to do with either ABS or servo.

 

Non-integrated brakes - hand operates front brake; foot operates rear. Concerning integrated braking - Full means foot or hand operates BOTH front and rear brakes. Partial means the hand brake operates front and rear but the foot ONLY operates the rear brake (desired on dirt or gravel when you want only the rear to be braking).

 

Added - on demand ABS simply allows the rider the option of TURNING the ABS off - again desired when riding on dirt or gravel - hence the ability to turn ABS off is an option on the GS.

 

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong or just confused !

 

Tom

Gainesville, Mo.

[Stately]

Maybe we need to go back to the drawing board.

 

http://www.bmw-motorrad.co.uk/gb/en/index.html

[David]

It also seems, as BMW uses the terms, that "integral" (as in "integral ABS") has an unrelated meaning to "integrated" (as in "partially integrated"). I think that's part of what's confusing me.

 

I think I'm going to suggest a recall on this issue of sloppy terminology.

[David]

Maybe we need to go back to the drawing board.

 

http://www.bmw-motorrad.co.uk/gb/en/index.html

 

What's weird is that the data on the web sites is not consistent. This is especially true when they put out a new model--the specs vary where they shouldn't.

[steveknapp]

It also seems, as BMW uses the terms, that "integral" (as in "integral ABS") has an unrelated meaning to "integrated" (as in "partially integrated"). I think that's part of what's confusing me.

 

Yup. The "EVO" thing confused me too until I beat that into my head.

[James Clark]

It also seems, as BMW uses the terms, that "integral" (as in "integral ABS") has an unrelated meaning to "integrated" (as in "partially integrated"). I think that's part of what's confusing me.

 

I think I'm going to suggest a recall on this issue of sloppy terminology.

 

Maybe "integrated" didn't test as well with focus groups as "integral".

 

Especially in Boston.

[graham2400]

Hello All,

 

I started the thread. Just an update to let you know how I got on.......

 

As I said on a previous post, I did extensive searches to try an locate a unit at a breaker, without any success.

 

I was really lucky to find (isn't the web wonderful !) a chap who'd bought a fire damaged 1150RT for the engine so he could build a microlight, and was selling surplus bits, including one servo unit, which I snapped up.

 

Fitted and bled, I have my bike back!

 

But the bond has broken now. If it wasn't for this lucky find, how long would I have been off the road? I love the RT, but this episode has made me loose faith in the bike and the brand, and I'm looking at the options.

 

Regards,

 

Graham

[John_Bennett]

> "So, what I’m faced with is a sudden unexpected failure, that I can’t fix myself, that makes the bike unrideable and cost 25% of the current value of the (3 year old) bike to fix.

 

Very Very Bad.

 

I empathize Graham. Your failure is the type I dread.

 

I always wanted the kind of bike that a person could fix forever, even if the manufacturer went out of business or was bought out. BMW boxers always seemed like the ultimate bike for a do-it-yourself kinda guy like me.

 

Blown transmissions and bearings I can deal with. Thousand dollar black boxes that require five-figure diagnostic computers exceed my tolerance for motorcycle high-technology.

 

If my '97RT were totaled, I don't think I would get a new BMW.

[TWEETY BYRD]

I think bmw does not care about customers.In an attempt to resolve my brake failures I wrote them a very reasonable request letter.They responded by stopping my dealer from removing the abs and sending me a letter. The letter said that I did not know how to brake a motorcycle. I had informed them of my 30 + years of offroad desert racing in my letter but this did not phase these people.I think bmw thinks of customers like the old door to door siding salesmen."We cant be too smart or we would not have purchased one of these bikes." I now own 2 Hondas, one Kawi and did not buy the bmw cars I intended to prior to this bmw bike.I hope I am getting smarter. Bob