Save Gas... Buy A Car

[smiller]

 

Just reading about the next-generation hybrid cars that will have larger battery capacity so that they can run 40-80 miles or more on battery power alone (charged overnight from electrical mains.) This would mean that for many typical commutes or errands an owner might not need to use any gasoline at all (yes, I know that energy is still consumed, just talking about the requirement to purchase fuel at local gas stations.) This capability is only a few years away with large-scale consumer debut being planned for around 2010.

 

Along with being OPEC's worst nightmare (and perhaps Union Carbide's dream) it occurs to me that this technology is not very easily applicable to motorcycles, and that these new hybrids will easily equal a motorcycle's fuel economy on the highway and perhaps handily beat it for short commute and errand duty. While most motorcyclists are not in it for the fuel economy alone it does seem as though we will lose that bragging right before very long, with large-displacement motorcycles moving into the catagory of fuel inefficient vehicles.

 

Will the motorcycle industry adapt? Will it even need to? (not talking in political terms here but strictly on a basis of consumer demand.)

 

[Art..]

Zero electric motorcycles

 

 

Check out these electric dirtbikes.

[Bob Palin]

I wonder what will happen to tourism in the more remote areas of the country.

 

An 80 mile range here is not very much use, I could go to Loa for groceries but not to Richfield and back for larger purchases, and it would take 2 days to get to the airport.

[Tony_K]

It's still a hybrid so it still retains fossil fuel. The cells are being advanced. So your trip to Richfield gets 80 miles free ride. Well as free as electric power can be.

[Bob Palin]

Good point, missed the hybrid part.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Well as free as electric power can be.

 

My brother ran through the math recently. If you outfit your home's roof with solar cells, you can gather more than enough energy to meet the needs of a vehicle like this. Granted a solar installation like that would cost as much as the gas required to go 100K miles, but the flip side is that you end up with a vehicle that's starting to look pretty green...

[smiller]

Good point, missed the hybrid part.

Yeah, just to be clear to everyone these vehicles have an engine to power the vehicle and charge the battery if required (so range isn't limited by battery capacity), but if fully topped-off can run on batteries alone for many miles before the engine needs to start. The battery-only ranges of the first vehicles will be modest, but still sufficient for the typical average daily commute or errand run. If used within these boundaries many owners would not need to purchase gasoline for routine daily activities. The interesting part is that this is not pie-in-the-sky technology but is doable today, and there are expected to be commercially viable versions available in a few years (vs. a few decades for other technologies.) Naturally there are still all of the pay-off issues but vehicles like this stand to make that period reasonably short.

 

Current 'fuel efficient' cars can at best obtain parity with a motorcycle, but it appears that soon a combined 100 mpg+ (with electric assist) will be quite feasible. The technology can be applied to any vehicle I suppose but it seems that size and weight limitations will make it a challenge to employ on a motorcycle, or at least one that you would actually want.

 

What will we (and motorcycle manufacturers) do when it costs more to ride the bike than to drive a car?

 

 

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I don't see it as being too far fetched for a motorcycle. The engine in my Blackbird weighs about 170 lbs. Electric motor and control technology has come a long way as have batteries. I could probably put together a really rough package with about 50 HP or so for not a heck of a lot more weight or bulk. That would provide adequate performance as a commuter.

 

My commute when home is really short, about 9 miles round trip or 12 if I stop for supper somewhere on the way home. Most of my shopping I can get done within 5 miles of home as well.

 

Sooner or later I'll have to get another cage, might just wait to see how these pan out.

[smiller]

I don't see it as being too far fetched for a motorcycle.

Perhaps, although again the space and weight limitations on a motorcycle may dictate that capabilities lag well behind larger vehicles. But even to the extent that it is workable I wonder how the marketplace might influence motorcycle manufacturers to react. There will always be some '40-50 mpg is good enough' sportbike buyers, but if fuel prices continue to rise and hybrid motorcycles (again, with assist from commercial electric power) can achieve at least double current mileage figures one would have to imagine that there would be a pretty big market for them. If the technology turns out to be practical/desirable in cars (as I imagine it would have to) then I wonder if such a product might be available from a mainstream motorcycle manufacturer sooner than we think. (And if not we're back to the question of how a non-hybrid motorcycle can compete with an über-hybrid car.)

 

[Foot]

I already run my entire house on Solar, I could on peak sun days divert 2-3 hours of power to charge a car/bike and still keep the house charged up. I need to look into this!

 

Alan

[blkvelvt]

All electric is here. Truck and SUV.

 

http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/

[smiller]

All electric is here. Truck and SUV.

 

http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/

Unfortunately that seems like an example of how not to do it as the high initial price makes it hard to see any payback within a reasonable timeframe. Comparing their $47,000 vehicle against a Lincoln Navigator may look good, by compared to a $25,000 vehicle that gets 25 mpg it would take over 11 years to break even at $5.00/gallon (and .10 per kWh which is probably unrealistically low), and that's not even counting the fact that the very expensive battery plant would probably have to be replaced by then, time value of an additional $22,000 over 11 years, etc.

 

 

[blkvelvt]

All electric is here. Truck and SUV.

 

http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/

Unfortunately that seems like an example of how not to do it as the high initial price makes it hard to see any payback within a reasonable timeframe. Comparing their $47,000 vehicle against a Lincoln Navigator may look good, by compared to a $25,000 vehicle that gets 25 mpg it would take over 11 years to break even at $5.00/gallon (and .10 per kWh which is probably unrealistically low), and that's not even counting the fact that the very expensive battery plant would probably have to be replaced by then, time value of an additional $22,000 over 11 years, etc.

 

 

Agreed. Production numbers on all electric cars will bring the price down. My point is the technology exists. Every car maker could do this IF they wanted to. Old school thought process in the high tech new world is like teaching your dog to fly a helicoptor. We're a decade behind a lot of countries. Seems weird that Saudi Arabia puts so much money into solar power. They have all the cheap oil. Maybe they figured out the supply is finite. We as westerners could still learn a thing or two.

[tallman]

As long as they solve the battery disposal issue and build them for people bigger than 5' sumptin, I'd look.

Right now, literally can't get into a Prius.

[smiller]

Yeah, I wasn't intending to slam the concept of electric vehicles. But they have to be both available and cost effective (and big enough for Tim). Unfortunately after 100 years of experience in mass-production it seems to be a lot cheaper to make an engine than a battery pack. Not sure how to get over the hump of high price to mass production for pure electrics in a short timeframe. Hybrids seem to at least partially address this issue by using a relatively inexpensive engine to reduce the need for an expensive high-capacity battery pack, bringing the total cost premium down. Perhaps hybrids can provide an economic bridge to pure electric.