cager rant, part 2

[steve.foote]

Bob, next time do your venting at the tavern. It's a hell of a lot safer.

 

+1

[SeanC]

Like I asked, you need to expand on your explanation on what an immigrant looks like.

I haven't said anything about what an immigrant "looks" like, so what are you asking me to expand upon? Not sure why you're focusing on appearance, but I'll venture a guess as to what an immigrant may look like: Usually (but not always) two legs, two arms, ranging in height from, say, 5' to 6'2" (except the short ones and tall ones), standard human facial features (eyes, nose, mouth, etc.), human range of intelligence and emotion, etc., etc. In other words, just look in a mirror. Chances are you're either an immigrant yourself or descended from immigrants. You'll share the same human DNA anyway.

 

So it is your assertion that people who do not speak English are automatically assumed to be immigrants?

No, they could well be tourists. But since you mentioned they were driving an uninsured 1985 sedan, it seems unlikely any rental car outfits would offer such vehicles to its customers.

 

Seems like you are being unfair and judgmental to the naturalized citizens who choose to only speak the language of their country of origin.

What they choose to speak is immaterial. It's what they can understand that matters. I.e., if someone chooses to only speak the language of their native country, that doesn't necessarily mean they'd be unable to understand you. You mentioned, after all, that the very reason you were ranting here was due to an inability to speak Spanish (the implication being that had you spoken to them in English, they wouldn't have understood you).

 

That's the precise reason the US Customs and Immigration Service requires applicants for naturalization be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language. It's not a cultural requirement; it's a safety requirement. The objective being, at the very least, all US citizens must be able to understand law enforcement officers.

 

So did you think the family in question were US citizens, resident aliens or tourists? You came to some pretty strong conclusions about their intelligence and morality (which I would think would be much harder to gauge), so surely you came to some conclusions about their status...?

[upflying]

Like I asked, you need to expand on your explanation on what an immigrant looks like.

I haven't said anything about what an immigrant "looks" like, so what are you asking me to expand upon? Not sure why you're focusing on appearance, but I'll venture a guess as to what an immigrant may look like: Usually (but not always) two legs, two arms, ranging in height from, say, 5' to 6'2" (except the short ones and tall ones), standard human facial features (eyes, nose, mouth, etc.), human range of intelligence and emotion, etc., etc. In other words, just look in a mirror. Chances are you're either an immigrant yourself or descended from immigrants. You'll share the same human DNA anyway.

 

So it is your assertion that people who do not speak English are automatically assumed to be immigrants?

No, they could well be tourists. But since you mentioned they were driving an uninsured 1985 sedan, it seems unlikely any rental car outfits would offer such vehicles to its customers.

 

Seems like you are being unfair and judgmental to the naturalized citizens who choose to only speak the language of their country of origin.

What they choose to speak is immaterial. It's what they can understand that matters. I.e., if someone chooses to only speak the language of their native country, that doesn't necessarily mean they'd be unable to understand you. You mentioned, after all, that the very reason you were ranting here was due to an inability to speak Spanish (the implication being that had you spoken to them in English, they wouldn't have understood you).

 

That's the precise reason the US Customs and Immigration Service requires applicants for naturalization be able to read, write, speak, and understand words in ordinary usage in the English language. It's not a cultural requirement; it's a safety requirement. The objective being, at the very least, all US citizens must be able to understand law enforcement officers.

 

So did you think the family in question were US citizens, resident aliens or tourists? You came to some pretty strong conclusions about their intelligence and morality (which I would think would be much harder to gauge), so surely you came to some conclusions about their status...?

 

I came to no conclusions about their immigration status. To do so would be judgmental, discriminatory, prejudicial and as others mentioned xeonphobic. LEO's are prohibited by policy from questioning people or making judgments about immigration status. As I have repeatedly said, I made no mention or concluded that these Spanish speaking people were immigrants. Based on their inability to speak English, it is apparently YOUR conclusion that they were.

[russell_bynum]

This thread is hilarious.

[SeanC]

I came to no conclusions about their immigration status. To do so would be judgmental, discriminatory, prejudicial and as others mentioned xeonphobic.

Wait a sec... the term "immigrant" is judgmental, prejudicial, etc., but "subhumanly stupid" isn't?

 

LEO's are prohibited by policy from questioning people or making judgments about immigration status.

Questioning people, sure. And arguably for good reason (e.g., if immigrants fear the police, they're less likely to ask for help, provide input to investigators, etc.). But c'mon, you suspected (as well as I did, based on your description) that the Spanish-only speaking family you encountered in the uninsured 1985 sedan weren't tourists and probably came to California from a Spanish-speaking country in search of employment. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing inherently negative, xenophobic or demeaning about the term "immigrant." Nor were they any more stupid about the safety of their children than your parents or my parents were regarding us. They made a mistake. Fortunately no one was hurt. I'm sure they'll pay the ticket, purchase child seats and move on.

[Shaman97]

I'm sure they'll pay the ticket...

 

Was there a ticket issued? OP didn't say that.

[SeanC]

I'm sure they'll pay the ticket...

 

Was there a ticket issued? OP didn't say that.

If one wasn't, I'm only speaking Spanish to LEOs from now on....

 

"Do you know how fast you were going?"

 

"¿Que?"

 

"License, registration and proof of insurance, please."

 

"¿Que?"

[1MPH]

This thread is hilarious.

 

 

I think it's subhuman.

[motorman587]

I thought this post was about a stupid traffic crash??

[Vicious_Cycler]

Hey, why not superhuman ?

[Shaman97]

I thought this post was about a stupid traffic crash??

 

It was, but then devolved (in our own fashion) into elements and accusasions of:

racism

economic deprivation

subhuman behavior (dictionary definition, to boot)

xenophobia (still gotta go to the dictionary on that one)

 

Yet to be revealed:

What type of oil the perps were/were not using, and how long since it was changed.

What type of gun they had, should have had, or better-not-have-had.

 

We've still got a ways to go on this one...

Unless it's revealed that the perps had an Obama or McCain bumper sticker on their car. That'll kill the thread.

[AnRSguy]

How about a "McBama" sticker?

[Pilgrim]

I came to no conclusions about their immigration status. To do so would be judgmental, discriminatory, prejudicial and as others mentioned xeonphobic. LEO's are prohibited by policy from questioning people or making judgments about immigration status. As I have repeatedly said, I made no mention or concluded that these Spanish speaking people were immigrants. Based on their inability to speak English, it is apparently YOUR conclusion that they were.

 

For crying out loud, Bob. If you're serious, then the PC police that run that state have managed to brainwash even old cops who ought to know better.

 

If, in the face of the clear evidence of the probability of alienage, you refuse to draw a conclusion you're not a cop, you're a guard. Cops are expected to deduce things; guards aren't. Inability to speak or understand English is a judicially-acknowledged ground to suspect alienage. Not probative, but prima facie evidence of it. I'm not suggesting here you should have called ICE, they wouldn't have responded, anyway, but really, I find it hard to believe that you want to be so defensive about it in a casual conversation.

 

Assuming a level of training by the Feds (known as "287g" training, after the section of law), cops are now allowed to ask immigration questions and act on the answers to enforce immigration laws. Joe Arpaio, the Sheriff in Maricopa County, AZ has put that authority to very good use, and the reduction in several categories of crime and accidents reflect its usefulness. I've been in favor of it - but suddenly, I'm not so sure.

 

If, on the other hand, you are being ironic, well, yeah. You never know when the PC police will find what you say here and use it against you, so better you just act like you really are that divorced from reality.

 

Pilgrim

[Agent_Orange]

Ah, should I put the bike on the center stand when I fuel up?

 

 

 

Much Ado About Nothing [Gratus to W. S.]

 

[Hermes]

 

I came to no conclusions about their immigration status. To do so would be judgmental, discriminatory, prejudicial and as others mentioned xeonphobic

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WTF

 

For Christ's Sake, Bob, don't cave in.

 

Notwithstanding the entertainment value of the sanctomonious and selfingratiating posts in this far too long thread, in real life, on the street level, you are being paid to judge, discriminate, be discretionary, identify potential threads etc etc.. It is the very essence of your job (except being xenophobic).

 

And if some situations in your job compell you to write about them on this board, we want to continue to hear from you (the silent majority!), we feel for you, we understand, and we know you are not a rednecked xenophobic immigration basher.

We also know and would expect without delay, that your post will be dissected and analysed, at nausia.

 

Stay safe, do the right things and trust your instincts (if it clucks like chicken....), your life may one day depend on it, but you know that anyhow.

 

Btw, what's wrong with this board, how come no one has picked on that Harley comment of yours yet. Come on people, there is more in Bob's OP to attack. Phwee!

[VonDawg]

+1 ...go for a ride.