Uhoh.... Starbucks is closing......

[Francois_Dumas]

Just now that Nina acquired a taste for coffee.... and in specific the expensive stuff with funny tastes at Starbucks, we see in the news that they're closing down 600 of the shops due to the economic recession.... Ooooops, I said the 'R' word

 

But hang on, there's an opportunity for a NEW brand to pour coffee with just as much sugar but for half the price....... !

[keithb]

Just heard the same info this morning on the news. MacDonald's et al have been kicking Starbuck's hiney for the last year or so with a very good product for 1/2 the price. There are great margins in liquids (ie. soft drinks, coffee, beer, wine, and liquor).

[Lets_Play_Two]

Just now that Nina acquired a taste for coffee.... and in specific the expensive stuff with funny tastes at Starbucks, we see in the news that they're closing down 600 of the shops due to the economic recession.... Ooooops, I said the 'R' word

 

But hang on, there's an opportunity for a NEW brand to pour coffee with just as much sugar but for half the price....... !

 

Not recession, overbuilding!!!

[Whip]

I don't need Starbucks........I only drink Kool-Aid......

 

 

 

 

[smiller]

To keep it in perspective they're closing 600 of 11,000 US locations, many of which were opened in the last few years and never did very well since inception. They are oversaturated in many markets and are just figuring that out, and yes, no doubt the economy isn't helping any either.

[Bob Palin]

Just heard the same info this morning on the news. MacDonald's et al have been kicking Starbuck's hiney for the last year or so with a very good product for 1/2 the price.

I had coffee at a MacDonalds a couple of months ago and was surprised how good it was. I'm picky about coffee, have Peets shipped to me from California.

[keithb]

Well I cannot speak to the quality since I do not drink coffee but many of my friends who drink it say it has improved dramatically in the last couple of years. I would agree that their has been over building and saturation with Starbucks. They are practically on EVERY corner here in SoCal.

[Marek]

McD beat Starbucks in blind taste tests.

I do like mine brew the best. It's time to roast some beans again.

 

Mark

[russell_bynum]

Well I cannot speak to the quality since I do not drink coffee but many of my friends who drink it say it has improved dramatically in the last couple of years. I would agree that their has been over building and saturation with Starbucks. They are practically on EVERY corner here in SoCal.

 

We have two in the same parking lot a mile and a half from home. Then another one 200 yards away from those.

 

[keithb]

"We have two in the same parking lot a mile and a half from home. Then another one 200 yards away from those."

 

Well if I was one of those Starbucks owners who spent a lot of $$$ to buy the franchise I don't think I would be happy about the competition unless I owned all three.

[Joel]

As seen in a small independent shop, "Friends don't let friends drink corporate coffee."

[bakerzdosen]

Well, that's going to absolutely KILL us here. We've got a grand total of two in our county, and one of those is in Barnes & Noble.

[Marek]

 

Well if I was one of those Starbucks owners who spent a lot of $$$ to buy the franchise I don't think I would be happy about the competition unless I owned all three.

 

I think all franchisees but a territory to avoid exactly this kind of a situation.

[Bob Palin]

Well, that's going to absolutely KILL us here. We've got a grand total of two in our county, and one of those is in Barnes & Noble.

We have two coffee shops in Torrey! No Starbucks though, nor MacDonalds.

[Joel]

Well, that's going to absolutely KILL us here. We've got a grand total of two in our county, and one of those is in Barnes & Noble.

We have two coffee shops in Torrey! No Starbucks though, nor MacDonalds.

 

Mrs. Bumble Bee and I enjoyed lattes at Castle Rock Coffee & Candy last time we were there.

 

Francois, next time you're in Torrey (ahem), you should treat Nina to a beverage there.

[russell_bynum]

I wonder if we'll ever go back to coffee just being coffee?

 

Used to be pretty much all coffee was the same. As long as it didn't sit out too long, people drank it. Most restaurants gave you coffee for free. Now you've got a cup of coffee that costs more than $5 and everyone thinks they're a connoisseur.

 

Doesn't really matter to me...I can't stand the stuff. Hate the smell. Hate the taste. Every Starbucks could close tomorrow and I wouldn't care, or they could thrive and open up 10 more and it wouldn't make any difference. I just think this whole Starbucks thing is a fascinating study in marketing and consumer behavior. Turn everyday consumers into self-proclaimed connoisseurs and turn a commodity freebee "give it away so you'll come eat at our restaurant" product into a premium product that people are happy to pay out the nose for. It's pure genius.

[questrider]

We have two coffee shops in Torrey! No Starbucks though, nor MacDonalds.

Let's hope it stays that way. The last thing Main St. needs is golden arches. I shudder the thought.

[keithb]

"Doesn't really matter to me...I can't stand the stuff. Hate the smell. Hate the taste. Every Starbucks could close tomorrow and I wouldn't care, or they could thrive and open up 10 more and it wouldn't make any difference. I just think this whole Starbucks thing is a fascinating study in marketing and consumer behavior. Turn everyday consumers into self-proclaimed connoisseurs and turn a commodity freebee "give it away so you'll come eat at our restaurant" product into a premium product that people are happy to pay out the nose for. It's pure genius."

 

+1.

[Bob Palin]

I wonder if we'll ever go back to coffee just being coffee?

 

Used to be pretty much all coffee was the same.

That's not true at all, it's just that the general public wasn't exposed to good coffee. In better restaurants you always got better coffee, not the swill they have at Dennys, or, dare I say it, Dunkin' Donuts (SWILL I say!)

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Used to be pretty much all coffee was the same. As long as it didn't sit out too long, people drank it. Most restaurants gave you coffee for free. Now you've got a cup of coffee that costs more than $5 and everyone thinks they're a connoisseur.

 

Funny, I like the lame-o coffee they serve at greasy-spoon diners. It's...comfortable. The stuff you get at Starbucks and McDonald's is harsh-tasting and invariably is way too f'ing hot to drink.

 

There have been two restaurants around here that served me coffee that I thought was remarkably good. At one of the places I asked, and they said it was Douwe Egberts. We bought some, and in fairly short order I was suffering excruciating headaches that lead to an MRI and a prescription for Midrin. It was over a month before I made the connection between the headaches and the new coffee; I went back to regular coffee and the headaches were gone in a few days. Go figure...

 

 

[marcopolo]

"We have two in the same parking lot a mile and a half from home. Then another one 200 yards away from those."

 

Well if I was one of those Starbucks owners who spent a lot of $$$ to buy the franchise I don't think I would be happy about the competition unless I owned all three.

 

As I understand it, there is no such thing as a Starbucks franchise. My wife checked into it a couple of years ago, only to be told they don't franchise. The vast majority of stores are company owned. There are, however, some partnership arrangements with other retailers etc. (not individuals), like bookstore chains. In Canada, Chapters bookstores have Starbucks outlets. According to one book I read, one of the reasons SBs does not franchise is that this allows the company to put new stores anywhere (even across the street from another one) without any worries of a franchisee complaint.

[Francois_Dumas]

Used to be pretty much all coffee was the same. As long as it didn't sit out too long, people drank it. Most restaurants gave you coffee for free. Now you've got a cup of coffee that costs more than $5 and everyone thinks they're a connoisseur.

 

Funny, I like the lame-o coffee they serve at greasy-spoon diners. It's...comfortable. The stuff you get at Starbucks and McDonald's is harsh-tasting and invariably is way too f'ing hot to drink.

 

There have been two restaurants around here that served me coffee that I thought was remarkably good. At one of the places I asked, and they said it was Douwe Egberts. We bought some, and in fairly short order I was suffering excruciating headaches that lead to an MRI and a prescription for Midrin. It was over a month before I made the connection between the headaches and the new coffee; I went back to regular coffee and the headaches were gone in a few days. Go figure...

 

 

 

Yes, I guess when you're used to surrogate it hurts when you get REAL coffee all of a sudden...... don't come to Holland or Italy... Germany, England and France are 'safe' for ya !

[Marek]

No question Starbucks marketing was a genius - they convinced a lot of people that they should pay $$$ for coffee.

One thing I didn't know is that they are the second largest retailer of music.

 

Mark

[Quinn]

You can buy the beans in grocery stores in some parts of the country. Also, is $5.00 coffee worst than $2.00 water? At least with the coffee, you get some sort of show and pretense.

 

 

[russell_bynum]

I wonder if we'll ever go back to coffee just being coffee?

 

Used to be pretty much all coffee was the same.

That's not true at all, it's just that the general public wasn't exposed to good coffee. In better restaurants you always got better coffee, not the swill they have at Dennys, or, dare I say it, Dunkin' Donuts (SWILL I say!)

 

The point was nobody cared. The general public was perfectly happy with the stuff that Denny's gives you for free (again...as long as it hadn't been sitting out too long). Nobody cared how their beans were roasted our whether it was a coarse grind or a fine, or whatever. Coffee was just coffee.

[russell_bynum]

You can buy the beans in grocery stores in some parts of the country. Also, is $5.00 coffee worst than $2.00 water? At least with the coffee, you get some sort of show and pretense.

 

 

I get my water from the tap, and show and pretense is not something I'm looking for in a beverage.

[Marek]

In this culture "coffee was coffee" - in the other parts of the world things are different. We are a young country and it shows.

 

 

[Bob Palin]

I wonder if we'll ever go back to coffee just being coffee?

Let me try this again. The answer is no, because the public has been exposed to the fact that some coffee is better than other coffee and a segment of the public chooses the better stuff. It's true that in recent years it's become something of a fashion thing, but Peets and Starbucks have been providing good coffee for over 20 years. It's the same situation with beer (which if I remember right Russell is not qualified to speak about either)

[russell_bynum]

In this culture "coffee was coffee" - in the other parts of the world things are different. We are a young country and it shows.

 

 

Definitely...I was just talking about here and not stuff they have in Europe. The Euros don't like coffee unless you have to cut it with a steak knife.

 

 

It's not just coffee either. It seems like in the last 20 years or so we've seen all these 'premium _______' places popping up. Microbreweries because beer isn't just beer anymore. A zillion different kinds of bottled water because H20 apparently isn't just H20. Same with Wine.

 

It's not that nobody cared about this sort of thing before...but it does seem like lots more people care about it than they used to.

 

It's a bit perplexing to me since I'm not into any of the things that seem to have gone "premium". I'll drink my Coke in a can, from a glass, with or without ice. I prefer it to be cold, but it doesn't really bother me if it is room temperature.

[Bob Palin]

In this culture "coffee was coffee" - in the other parts of the world things are different. We are a young country and it shows.

I don't know for sure but I think you'll find that if you go back pre civil war Americans probably were quite discriminating about coffee and there was a variety available.

[russell_bynum]

I wonder if we'll ever go back to coffee just being coffee?

Let me try this again. The answer is no, because the public has been exposed to the fact that some coffee is better than other coffee and a segment of the public chooses the better stuff. It's true that in recent years it's become something of a fashion thing, but Peets and Starbucks have been providing good coffee for over 20 years. It's the same situation with beer (which if I remember right Russell is not qualified to speak about either)

 

Are you saying that very few people were exposed to "good" coffee before Starbucks, etc came around? Did all restaurants serve pretty much the same stuff back then? We ate at all manner of restaurants from the greasy spoons to the five star and even though my parents always had coffee it was never something that stood out. Did Starbucks come along and suddenly people "saw the light"?

 

 

You are correct, I'm also not qualified to speak about beer either. I've had some that has a better initial taste than others...and even some that I enjoyed the initial taste, but it's all got the same horsepiss aftertaste to me. Brewing coffee smells like cat sh*t to my nose. Wine smells like perfectly good grape juice that went bad. Water tastes like water. So I'm pretty much speaking as an observer and not someone who's involved in the whole 'premium ______' bit.

[Marek]

I'm glad for all the micro brews and coffee beans ready to roast - the other thing I'm glad for is the Czech Pilsner - so most people can taste what Budweiser was tasting like before they water it down.

[subvet]

Just now that Nina acquired a taste for coffee.... and in specific the expensive stuff with funny tastes at Starbucks, we see in the news that they're closing down 600 of the shops due to the economic recession.... Ooooops, I said the 'R' word

 

But hang on, there's an opportunity for a NEW brand to pour coffee with just as much sugar but for half the price....... !

 

 

The worst coffee I've ever had in the Netherlands is better than Starbucks. So unless you are like into the "double, fat-free, carmel, soy, mocha, latte" kinda coffee expeeeerience dude, I don't know why you'd drink Starbucks. (I always thought they're coffee had a burnt taste to it)

 

I don't mean to start a dino vs. synth, Pepe's vs. Sally's (you CT. folks will understand that) thread but Dunkin' Donuts has got it going over Starbucks any day of the week. (been drinking D-D coffee for years) They are opening a DD/Baskin-Robins up the raod from my house in a couple of weeks. I can't wait

 

Oh, with the bad news comes good news....Starbucks is actually planning to open another 200 stores by (I think) end of 2008. The shutdowns (as someone else said) are under-performing locations.

 

 

[Bob Palin]

Russell, what I'm disputing is that coffee was ever "just coffee". I think it's true, just as for beer, that the majority of people were never exposed to good coffee, but it existed and some people liked it. The growth of places like Peets and Starbucks led to more people being exposed to it and some of them liked it. I mention Peets because I'm a long time Peetnick and Starbucks was founded because of Peets, they even bought their roasted beans from him at first. Incidentally Mr Peet grew up in Holland where he learned the coffee trade.

[Marek]

most people associate the taste of coffee with the roast taste, the darker the roast the more of most call coffee taste. Coffee bean has a lot of taste and the only way you can taste it is in lighter roasts. Most people never get to taste that unless they do their own roasting. The French roast is a very popular roast and it's a pretty dark roast. If those beans were roasted another minute or so it would by charcoal.

I know very little about coffee but roasting my own beans has been fun.

[azkaisr]

I didn't think Starbucks did franchises

[russell_bynum]

Russell, what I'm disputing is that coffee was ever "just coffee". I think it's true, just as for beer, that the majority of people were never exposed to good coffee, but it existed and some people liked it. The growth of places like Peets and Starbucks led to more people being exposed to it and some of them liked it. I mention Peets because I'm a long time Peetnick and Starbucks was founded because of Peets, they even bought their roasted beans from him at first. Incidentally Mr Peet grew up in Holland where he learned the coffee trade.

 

I never disputed that there was premium coffee before Starbucks (or beer or wine, etc.) But nobody cared. Maybe that's because they hadn't been exposed to it before, but I'm personally more inclined to believe that it's because they didn't know they were supposed to care.

[Bob Palin]

If you would just stop using the word 'nobody' I would give up! I'll take 99% as a compromise.

[tallman]

Who cares?

 

Don't drink it.

Don't like mocha flavor.

Don't like coffee flavored ice creme.

 

Caffeine is a dangerous drug and should be regulated, available by prescription only.

 

For years I've seen the havoc it causes in schools as students crash from their morning fix.

"I'm not hungry in the morning, I can't eat in the morning".

It's called break fast for a reason and the reason isn't to get hyped on caffeine.

How many of you can't get going w/out your morning fix?

Perhaps a coffee tax would fix Social Security.

A nation fuels itself on alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine, then complains about health care.

Gotta love it.

Best wishes.

[Bob Palin]

How many of you can't get going w/out your morning fix?

Who told you that? I totally deny it.

And Whip, shuddup, I've seen your Coke habit.

[subvet]

A nation fuels itself on alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine, then complains about health care.

 

don't forget trans-fats. nothin like going to the local watering hole and throwing back a coupla Jaeger-Bulls with an order of fried cheese sticks. Finish it all off with a healthy dose of 2nd-hand smoke.....that'll make your HMO cringe.

[russell_bynum]

If you would just stop using the word 'nobody' I would give up! I'll take 99% as a compromise.

 

I thought that was assumed. When talking about people, there really are no absolutes.

[Marek]

How many of you can't get going w/out your morning fix?

Who told you that? I totally deny it.

And Whip, shuddup, I've seen your Coke habit.

 

Whip is all about Kool Aid - I like my coffee in the afternoon - black tall bald - Mark

[Redbrick]

Just heard the same info this morning on the news. MacDonald's et al have been kicking Starbuck's hiney for the last year or so with a very good product for 1/2 the price. There are great margins in liquids (ie. soft drinks, coffee, beer, wine, and liquor).

 

Senior discount at Ronald's place and really good coffee....All you can drink...."It's good to be king", or at least a senior...

 

 

[DavidEBSmith]

Are you saying that very few people were exposed to "good" coffee before Starbucks, etc came around? Did all restaurants serve pretty much the same stuff back then? We ate at all manner of restaurants from the greasy spoons to the five star and even though my parents always had coffee it was never something that stood out. Did Starbucks come along and suddenly people "saw the light"?

 

Starbucks brought "good" coffee* into the mass-market consciousness. The genius of Starbucks was to associate coffee with an upscale image - the cozy stores with places to sit and relax and savor your "gourmet" coffee drink, the fancy pastries, the pseudo-European name on your fancy drink. Plus the coffee itself was different from the swill that people were used to and a little bit difficult and adventurous. Starbucks combined social climbing and coffee.

 

BTW, we have a Starbucks in my office building, there's another one 1/2 block away, and 2 others within a block. So we can lose one, especially considering within a block we also have a Lavazza (my regular coffee joint), an Einstein Bagels, a Caribou, a Dunkin Donuts, and at least two other places with espresso machines.

 

* Starbucks takes good beans and roasts them to death, so people who drink Starbucks regularly have no idea what "good" coffee is. There's a great podcast of a lecture by Andreas Illy of Illy Caffe at this page that tells what you really need to know about coffee.

[David]

Starbucks is more of a milk place than a coffee place.

[EffBee]

I wonder if we'll ever go back to coffee just being coffee?

 

Used to be pretty much all coffee was the same. As long as it didn't sit out too long, people drank it. Most restaurants gave you coffee for free. Now you've got a cup of coffee that costs more than $5 and everyone thinks they're a connoisseur.

 

Doesn't really matter to me...I can't stand the stuff. Hate the smell. Hate the taste. Every Starbucks could close tomorrow and I wouldn't care, or they could thrive and open up 10 more and it wouldn't make any difference. I just think this whole Starbucks thing is a fascinating study in marketing and consumer behavior. Turn everyday consumers into self-proclaimed connoisseurs and turn a commodity freebee "give it away so you'll come eat at our restaurant" product into a premium product that people are happy to pay out the nose for. It's pure genius.

 

Except for the fact that I like the smell, +1 on what Russell said.

 

Why people drink something that they admit is usually mediocre, often bad, and rarely excellent, is beyond me. And when you travel, you order it in a new restaurant not even knowing what it's going to taste like. Might be swill, might not.

 

Diet Coke tastes the same everywhere.

[Bob Palin]

Diet Coke tastes the same everywhere.

It certainly does - disgusting!

[Matts_12GS]

Diet Coke tastes the same everywhere.

It certainly does - disgusting!

 

+1

 

I used to sell coffee in another of gourmet shops pre fourbux. We did well and I learned much about coffee. I then took that knowledge into the wine and beer business. I also ride a harley sometimes.

 

Yuppies don't know dick for the most part, they just want to look like they do...

 

The upside from being on the retail side of it is that they can pay for it and usually tip well if you can tell a little bit of a cool story with the liquids...

[DaveTheAffable]

I had Starbucks recently...

 

I told the "barista" behind the counter, "Hey, this tastes like MUD!"

 

She replied, "Well, of course...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... it was GROUND this morning!"

 

 

 

Sorry.... I'm really sorry. Speaking of coffee, today is the first Wednesday of the month. Hmmm?