Has car design really come to this?

[Lone_RT_rider]

I am sitting here this morning, up way too early I might add, while watching the show Autoline on the Speed Channel. Autoline was "on location" in Los Angeles at a design studio. They had a panel of American born Japanese car Designers (not to be confused with Design Engineers) and the subject at hand was the "driving experience".

 

One of the Designers, probably around the age of early thirties made a statement that really took my by surprise. He said something to the effect of "We are really working hard to integrate the entire driving experience of music, texting, cell phones and e-mail into the vehicle".

 

Ok, back the truck up here! He wasn't stating that he needed to safely integrate these things into the driving experience; he was stating that they ARE the driving experience. Even at this early hour that almost knocked me off the couch. I work in the auto industry and have for 15 years and this still took my by surprise. I know that people have been a bit un-ashamed at the fact that piloting a vehicle has taken a back seat to everything else they would rather be doing, but has it really come to the point where the focus of driving, even at the design level is no longer driving?

 

Shawn

[Huzband]

From what I've observed on the road, even on my round trip to Tallahassee yesterday, driving has become a "virtual" experience.

[ltljohn]

Why don't we add a couple of video games to the mix to complete the experience, or we can link cars by bluetooth for online multi player gaming as we run down the road.

Think about the possibilities, playing grand theft auto in real time on real roads. The possibilities are just mind boggling!!!!

[lawnchairboy]

hasn't Ford/Microsoft already integrated voice/blue tooth control of phone/music/text messaging into their products on the showroom floor now? can't remember the name of it right now...

 

I just think it is funny, I used to think of the car (in the late 80's when I was in sales) as a refuge from phones and outside contact, just music to listen to. Not anymore I guess.

 

chris

[Calvin (no socks)]

Shawn, they have no backbone... "Its what the public is clammoring for based on our surveys"...A safer car takes a back seat to luxury/electronic appointments...Safer innovations comes along with free thinking. Some one else will come up with a innovative safety idea.... eg. seat belt pre-tensioners. The others reverse engineer or copy the idea and all cars have to have it. Survey the public and see if they approve of the idea. The public has no idea that this small increase of safety cushion improves the vehicle... "I want a refrigerated glove box to keep drinks cold" was the Surveys best response.. Immeidate action is taken at this point...so you get a cold glove box.... This generated us more sales on new vehicles "according to the latest survey"...Let them put the same zeal in raising the overall mileage of the entire line of vehicles. Instead they have a few high mileage units to offset the gas guzzling line. This same type of thinking has trickled down to the dealership level....(Just aboeve my level)....They use that to justify "appointments only" at the dealerships.. It is the "Surveys" that drive the direction of business. No longer thinking for themselvs the entire dealership is survey driven... Get a bad survey and it is connected to Money the dealership dosen't qualify for...Makes them change the flow...No one can think on their own any longer. It makes me sick. I won"t stand in the way of progress, but I don't want to be associated with idiots. My .02 Calvin

[Semper_Fi]

Shawn - in additon to driving I have seen:

 

- women putting on make up

- men shaving

- reading the newspaper - and not at rush hour

- eating a bowl of cereal.

 

Driving is a secondary task unfortunately

[Twisties]

Hey, where's my grape bubble gum dispenser? Oh yeah, grape bubble gum is but a memory too.

 

Yeah, that's pretty shocking and disturbing.

 

Jan

[Bullett]

I wonder what they teach in Driver's Ed these days? Back in the '70's when I took it, they really stressed focusing only on driving. No drinks, no food . . . probably no loud music as well, but I don't really remember that part.

 

These days, it seems that most drivers are doing something other than driving. One of my partners who runs, told me that she periodically decides to run fast until she sees a driver who is not talking on a cell phone. It used to be the other way around.

 

Maybe I can get Space Invaders for the Zumo. . .

[Francois_Dumas]

Personally I hate music while I am driving.... when I drive I drive and take pleasure in that... when I want to hear music I'll go to a concert. So these new fangled cars will probably never make it onto my driveway.

Call me a fanatic driver...... I'll take it

 

But the concept of doing other things than driving isn't new... down here a lot of recent truck accidents (and I mean 'real trucks' not the pick-up variety) are caused by drivers making coffee or even working the little on-board microwaves..... and losing control of what they really should be concerned with.

[Ken H.]

has it really come to the point where the focus of driving, even at the design level is no longer driving?

Well in a word - yes.

 

In more words - remember, unlike enthusiast such as hang our here, most people aren't interested in driving. They're interested in getting to where they want to be. The less the effort it takes on their part, and the more other use they can get out of, or be entertaining by the time spent doing so; the better.

 

[slight hijack]

 

In KC (and other cites I suppose) you can now get the traffic cameras system streamed live to your cell phone. So know you can be looking down at your cell phone to see what is going on ahead of you instead of looking up at it! I suppose the ultimate usefulness of it would be to be able to see yourself having a collision on your cell phone, caused by watching traffic on your cell phone!

 

[/slight hijack]

 

[Twisties]

I suppose that one issue here is that automated driving technology isn't keeping pace with technology development in other areas. Probably due to the large infrastructure investments required.

 

So, in other words, all this stuff will be great for getting from A to B when the car drives itself, but introducing it now seems irresponsible and pre-mature.

 

Jan

[donbmw]

It is going that way in general aviation. Cirrus Aircraft no come with Garmin graphic 3D desplay. You could have no window and still tell where you are unless you have a problem with the equipment. Aircraft manufactures have started putting to much gagets in that you don't fly the plane and when there is a problem pilots don't go back to the basic's of fly the aircraft first.

 

Don

[Marek]

The first Porsche I had, had no radio, no power locks no electric seats or windows no air - all it had was three pedals stick shift and a sh** load of power and handling - and that was only 27 years ago.

I think I'm getting old - Mark

[ghaverkamp]

hasn't Ford/Microsoft already integrated voice/blue tooth control of phone/music/text messaging into their products on the showroom floor now? can't remember the name of it right now...

 

Yes. Sync.

 

I have it in my car. For texting -- and I fortunately have only one coworker who texts me, generally -- it's nice, because it will read the text message to you. From there, you have a set of (non-configurable) canned responses you can send by voice command.

 

It's definitely not all there yet.

[Ken H.]

[/hijack]

 

It is going that way in general aviation. Cirrus Aircraft no come with Garmin graphic 3D desplay. You could have no window and still tell where you are unless you have a problem with the equipment. Aircraft manufactures have started putting to much gagets in that you don't fly the plane and when there is a problem pilots don't go back to the basic's of fly the aircraft first.

Just a couple of days ago I read that the crash of the B-1 in Guam was caused by water in a sensor that resulted in the computer systems taking away control of the aircraft from the pilot and placing it in a steep climb that resulted in a stall.

 

I don't know anything about a B-1 (or even if as reported is correct (often the press gets it wrong about aviation)), but there seems something fundamentally wrong with a fly by wire system that prevents the pilot from reacting to what (s)he sees going on out the window as being the true situation. I.e. - the plane was already climbing appropriately, not in the steep decent the computer systems thought it was.

 

[/hijack]

[donbmw]

Just a couple of days ago I read that the crash of the B-1 in Guam was caused by water in a sensor that resulted in the computer systems taking away control of the aircraft from the pilot and placing it in a steep climb that resulted in a stall.

 

I don't know anything about a B-1 (or even if as reported is correct (often the press gets it wrong about aviation)), but there seems something fundamentally wrong with a fly by wire system that prevents the pilot from reacting to what (s)he sees going on out the window as being the true situation. I.e. - the plane was already climbing appropriately, not in the steep decent the computer systems thought it was.

 

[/hijack]

 

If it wants for computers the flying wing would not be flying and someother aircraft that can only fly by them.

 

Don

 

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Just a couple of days ago I read that the crash of the B-1 in Guam was caused by water in a sensor that resulted in the computer systems taking away control of the aircraft from the pilot and placing it in a steep climb that resulted in a stall.

 

I don't know anything about a B-1 (or even if as reported is correct (often the press gets it wrong about aviation)), but there seems something fundamentally wrong with a fly by wire system that prevents the pilot from reacting to what (s)he sees going on out the window as being the true situation. I.e. - the plane was already climbing appropriately, not in the steep decent the computer systems thought it was.

 

'Twas a B-2, actually. Crash happens halfway through this clip (after second B2 takes off):

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f6d_1212714828

 

As Don noted, many late-model planes (especially the supermaneuverable fighter jets) are inherently unstable, and so are unflyable except by the computer: the only way to keep the thing in the air is to have the pilot tell the computer what he wants, and the computer figures out the best way to do it.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B-2_Spirit#Incidents_and_accidents

 

[Ken H.]

Crash happens halfway through this clip (after second B2 takes off):

 

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f6d_1212714828

Wow, that's unreal to watch. Looks like the pilots ejected just in the nick of time.

[russell_bynum]

In general Americans hate to drive, so they want to be isolated from the road and the vehicle as much as possible, and they want as many distractions as possible.

[Knifemaker]

Idiots design what Idiots want to buy!!!! Some things are nice but it is getting out of hand...

[tallman]

Yep,

and I want more.

Heads up display on windshield.

Laser/radar display.

Speed limit display (for those long strtches when you get on a new road and there are no signs).

GPS display.

Sat rad display w/eye movement selectors.

Downloadable movies with surround image/sound display.

Autotint windows for privacy.

Cone of Silence so others can't hear me on my cell phone.

Oven in the glove box, micro in the console, both w/steering wheel controls and auto serve features.

Pressurized drink system built into seat w/cambelbak style dispenser.

Interchangeabel cartridges of beverage du jour.

Back up cameras w/vehicle Identification software to alert to approach of LEO.

Paint with color changing characteristics, controlled from steering wheel for thos times it would be better to not match the BOLO.

Run flat tires.

Auto parallel park w/pivoting wheels.

Nail dispenser for those pesky tailgaters.

Oil dispenser for those pesky squids.

Pez dispenser just for the heck of it.

Animal detector that will spray pepper gas on any dog who approaches a wheel, send voltage through conductive exterior to discourage cats from climbing on it, and bird poop vaporizer tied to a target acquisition laser that eliminates the offending avian.

 

Don't drink coffee, so you can hold the coffe maker...

[VinnyR11]

Setting aside the driver distraction argument for a minute, I think integration of actual devices instead of just building an interface and letting others supply the devices is a huge mistake for car companies. I'm sure they're thinking bigger profits, but I think it may be a long term mistake.

 

Wired mag had an interesting reference to built in GPS devices on cars saying that built in GPS actually increases the depreciation of used cars (they didn't mention after how many years). More and more people are going to portable and importantly easily upgradeable (hardware) GPS products.

 

I think car designers will run into serious upgrade problems if they expand rapidly into digital consumer devices built into new cars. The life cycles of these products are short and continue to get shorter, and younger more tech savvy consumers are going to want the latest technology.

 

Regarding the auto designers comment: ""We are really working hard to integrate the entire driving experience of music, texting, cell phones and e-mail into the vehicle". Well, someone should tell this designer that, although not called a "driving experience", all of this is already done via most iPhone type smartphones. These, BTW are all in the process of being upgraded to newer platforms and ergo's.

 

Having said all that, and to show how little I guess I know, I think the car makers are going to plunge forward anyway hoping that they can capture some of the consumer electronics market, and perhaps renew interest in a slow growth market. I also think consumers are going to bite.

[Ken H.]

Nice bike list. But what do you want in a cage?

 

(Insert little winking, joking guy here.)

[leikam]

[ghaverkamp]

Regarding the auto designers comment: ""We are really working hard to integrate the entire driving experience of music, texting, cell phones and e-mail into the vehicle". Well, someone should tell this designer that, although not called a "driving experience", all of this is already done via most iPhone type smartphones. These, BTW are all in the process of being upgraded to newer platforms and ergo's.

 

This is precisely how the Ford/Microsoft Sync system works. Phones and/or music by Bluetooth, digital music players via USB (down to knowing how to read playlists and such off of common players), etc. It won't, yet, interface with navigation systems (even the built-in one). It's software-upgradeable, so it shold be able to stay current.

[rocks]

Interesting because my company just instituted a "No Distraction" policy for people either driving company cars and/or personal cars on company business.

It includes total non-use of electronic communication either hands free or not. Non-use of external music systems ie: Ipods, etc... no eating, drinking, or basically anything that causes distraction from actually driving. I figure it should add about 10-15 hours to my work week as I drive about 60,000 miles a year.

It is amazing how isolated you feel when you shut all the crap down and just drive... I have never been a big listener of music when I drive bacause it puts me to sleep... not when I ride however go figure.

At least in my part of the world I can vouch that there is at least one cage driver NOW paying attention!!

[David]

Well, if I followed that policy, there are certain people who could never ride with me because they talk too damn much.

[Gregori]

Yep,

and I want more. (...)

 

You need to talk to 'Q' - he'll hook you up right...

"Q-Branch"

"Bond Vehicles"

 

[rocks]

Well, if I followed that policy, there are certain people who could never ride with me because they talk too damn much.

 

That's what I told my boss!!

[bakerzdosen]

Personally, I'm glad to see that not every company is purely focusing on that.

 

Link to article (Warning to Russell: Lots of Chris Bangle in the link.)

 

[russell_bynum]

Someone really needs to beat the hell out of that guy.

 

 

[smiller]

 

"Roger Batman! Batteries to power, turbines to speed!"

 

[Twisties]

Personally, I'm glad to see that not every company is purely focusing on that.

 

Link to article (Warning to Russell: Lots of Chris Bangle in the link.)

 

 

Jeez, what's cieling? Cleared for instruments flights?