I have always been proud of my country!

[beemerman2k]

Please, this is not a political thread, this is a thread about my love for my country.

 

Regardless of your political affiliation, how about Barak Obama winning the Democratic nomination?! This is history being made right before our very eyes.

 

But let me tell you this: I am not at all surprised that a black man won the nomination of a major political party in the USA. I am not inviting comments on whether you agree with him or not. I don't really agree with many of his policies (I'm a Ron Paul kinda guy!). But I am nonetheless pleased that yet another so-called "barrier" has fallen in this great country. Why is it important to me? Because I would pit this country against any other that has ever existed on this planet when it comes to an open and equal society. USA vs any other country you care to name and my money is on the USA. Words fail me when it comes to my admiration for my own nation. You look at the place of this great nation in history and let me tell you what -- there is none that compares.

 

Yeah, I realize that this is my own opinion, but while I am pleased with the nomination of a black man for a major political party in this country, I am truly not at all surprised. Put another way, I would never ever bet against the USA when it comes to this country's ability to see through the fluff and select the most competent for the job -- regardless of race, gender, or any other arbitrary criterion you care to name.

 

What I hope will happen now that Obama has won the party is this: no more "group" politics in the USA!!! No more "black" this or "woman" that or "white" this or "fill in the blanks" that. No more!!!! In the USA, competence talks, everything else walks. Period.

 

I am just flat out lucky that I was born in this great nation. But I echo Patrick Henry -- a patriot who fought for the establishment of our nation -- when I say, "I regret that I only have one life to give for my country". Let me tell you this: some 231 years later, time has proven yet again that the founding fathers of this great nation got it right the first time. Yes, let us constructively criticize our nation as we work to make it better, but let us do so in all humility. We are all too blessed to be in any real position to criticize and judge the work of those great founders.

 

I have 3 beautiful black daughters. Ever since they were born, I have told them, "In the USA, you can be anything you set your heart on being". I say that to them because of my faith in them, and my faith in our great country. Cherish this time folks, extremely few humans have ever enjoyed a political entity such as this one in the course of human history.

 

Whether you agree with Hillary Clinton or not is again, beside the point. As the father of 3 beautiful, talented girls, look at that woman push the barriers back. Look at her show the world what this country is made of. Look at her blaze a trail!!! Again, the issue is not whether you voted for her or not, that is beside the point. The point is the all-inclusiveness of this great country. Our country does not value what you were born with, but instead it values what you live with -- diligence, hard work, excellence, passion, commitment!!!! It's values that make this place great, not entitlements!

 

What a country!!!!! Long may the USA live. As long as it's up to me and mine, she will live long indeed.

[Whip]

No one has ever said it better!!!!

 

Thanks

 

 

Whip

[Twisties]

+ 1

 

I'll send you a pm.

 

Jan

[AdventurePoser]

Wow! You said it, my friend.

 

Steve in So Cal

[Francois_Dumas]

This unrelenting enthusiasm surely forms part of what America has been throughout the years and sets it apart from the rest of the world. Glad you're happy

[Slyder_Steve]

Excellent comment, well stated! I am with you

 

Slyder

[RichEdwards]

Well said, Beemerman. As an educator, I am thrilled to see that all teachers can point to this time in our history and say that everyone, regardless of ethnic background or gender, has an opportunity for success, for leadership, for greatness.

[Mike05]

 

Thanks for putting into words what so many of us feel.

 

Still get goose bumps whenever I salute the flag & hear/sing our National Anthem.

 

With any luck, I always will.

[Marty Hill]

James,

 

Well said my friend!

[ltljohn]

Well said!!

[Bullett]

Right on, beemerman!

[VinnyR11]

Just beautifully put. This should be read by everyone, and I'm sending a copy to my kids.

 

As you point out, no matter what your political beliefs are, this election helped prove that our country has turned another corner. I'm still not sure who I'll be voting for come the election, but this primary makes me feel even more proud to be an American.

[Firefight911]

Beautiful worded. Well done!

[Jerry Johnston]

WHole heartedly agree with you !

[exwingnut]

The audacity of hope...never in our history has there been a better time to think that positive change can occur.

 

Something to be proud of indeed.

[baggerchris]

+1!

[Lone_RT_rider]

From one of my favorite songs....

 

"When the last thing we notice is the color of skin

And the first thing we look for is the beauty within

When the skies and the oceans are clean again

Then we shall be free"

 

Artist: Garth Brooks

Song: We Shall Be

Album: The Chase [2000]

[Knifemaker]

My country,' tis of thee,

sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing;

land where my fathers died,

land of the pilgrims' pride,

from every mountainside let freedom ring!

 

2. My native country, thee,

land of the noble free, thy name I love;

I love thy rocks and rills,

thy woods and templed hills;

my heart with rapture thrills, like that above.

 

 

 

Well said beemerman

 

 

[bakerzdosen]

Well said and I agree whole heartedly.

 

Now, in the interest of discussion, I'll add something else.

 

I don't live in a particularly racist part of the country, nor have I growing up, so my views are (as are all of ours I suppose) shaped by my surroundings. (And perhaps this is brought on my recent conversations I've had with others about differing attitudes about Latinos in general based on where you are in the USA.) I'm just pretty sure that I'm not qualified at all to talk about racism. (And yeah, some of that was beat into my head by my X as she was doing her master's thesis on the subject.)

 

So with that said, I'll ask this: Will this corner that we as a nation (and it is a "we" thing whether an individual agrees with his politics or not) have turned change things? Is it "all downhill from here?" Or is it just a natural step in our progression as a country? Or will it simply be more "ammunition" for those who are deeply entrenched in their biases?

 

I mean, lets face it, the guy as an individual has got charisma to spare. But do you think he'll have a positive (or negative) long term effect on the issues that James brought up? (Racism, the American dream, etc.)

 

Personally, I think he will have a positive influence, but I think you'll see some deeply seeded bias against him (as an individual) as well. It may not take the form of overt racism, but I think you're going to see it. I think how he handles THAT will be his true challenge and perhaps legacy (obviously a lot of that depends on the outcome of the general election).

[DiggerJim]

I am not at all surprised that a black man won the nomination of a major political party in the USA.

Okay, don't throw rocks at me, but I'm curious, and I figure this is a pretty safe place to ask this question (and you sound like a nice guy from your previous posts).

 

So, since his mother was white and it was his father who was black is that why he's black? If his grandfather was black & his grandmother was white (father's side) and his father married a white woman (so he's now 1/4 black) would he still be black? How do we determine someone's "blackness"?

 

It's fascinating that the media (and Barack himself) have identified him as black even though he is as much white as black. The same is true of Tiger Woods who is as much asian as black. It seems that regardless of comments to the contrary, King's dream still has not been achieved - is Barack (and Tiger for that matter) not being judged by the color of his skin?

[beemerman2k]

DiggerJim: I have pondered this matter as well. I told a white friend of mine that I would have thought that we blacks would have to *fight* to claim Barak Obama! But if whites wanna just give him to us, well we'll gladly take him!

 

Most black Americans in general are of mixed lineage. Very very few (if any) are truly, purely African. Most of us have some European and Native American Indian is us as well. That's one thing that makes being a black American a rather unique category among ethnic Americans. We are not from a common culture, heritage, and/or nation. We have not decided to be regarded as a "common people", we were categorized as such by our white American slave owners. Therefore, that which we all have in common with each other is not our common lineage, because there is no common lineage. What we have in common is a shared experience in the USA. This reality has resulted in some complex psychological and social issues that we've had to wrestle with as a people. For a good picture of the complexity, look at that film inspired by the writings of Alex Haley and that stars Halle Barry, I think it was called "Queenie" or something like that. A more simplistic view of this reality can be seen in Spike Lee's, "School Days" movie.

 

Anyhow, to address the issue you raise, it is a tradition in this country that if you have a drop of black blood in your veins, then you are black. Thus, Barak Obama is considered to be a black man -- it's a residual viewpoint that dates back to slave times. But yes, he is as much white as he is black. In any case, he certainly is a great source of pride for us all, isn't he? As he himself says, "Only in America can my life even be possible! That a man from such humble beginnings can rise to the heights to which I have risen!"

 

OK, in a separate post, I want to comment on that common experience.

[beemerman2k]

Every time I hear someone denounce this nation because of it's racist past, I just kinda shake my head in disgust. The very realities they cite in their call to "God d*mn America", I cite in my call to "God bless America"!

 

Let's say for the sake of argument that this nations racial past is as bad as it gets among humans (no, I don't believe that's true by the way, but bear with me for a second). Let's say it was so oppressive to be black in our nations past that it would make the experience of being Jewish under the Pharaohs of ancient Egypt look like a picnic by comparison (I absolutely, definitely don't believe that!)

 

The worse you care to paint the picture, the more I admire and honor this great nation! After all, look at where we are today! As Martin Luther King, Jr used to argue, you cannot take for granted that time will automatically cause humans to evolve into a more moral people. Nothing happens automatically, it's takes commitment, hard work, sacrifice, enlightenment, and a willingness to examine ones self. These are the very virtues and values my country has shown over the decades. The American people proved to the world that the values established by our great founders were not just "fluff". They were quite serious about those words as penned in the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. They laid the foundation for the quality of life that we all see, and what we all experience and enjoy to this day.

 

Dr King could not have accomplished what he did if our country didn't have the values it had. "In America, we have the right to protest for right" King said during the Montgomery Bus Boycott in 1957. Ghandi could not have freed India but for the values displayed by the English! If your oppressor has a conscience, then it's all over. All you have to do is to appeal to that conscience and you're as good as free. These men couldn't have even dreamed of accomplishing what they did under a communist or a fascist government, a dictatorship, or of one of the oppressive leaders of many African nations. Who but the West is holding Robert Mugabe of Zimbabwe to account? But for our influence, the people of that nation would have little to no hope for a brighter future. As of now, they can count on our intervention in that nation to restore them to the prominence and abundance they once enjoyed.

 

This fact, by the way, is yet another reason I was so disgusted by 9/11. On that day I thought to myself, "if a people has such a great grievance against the USA, then don't they realize that all they have to do is to appeal to our conscience?! Isn't that what the blacks of South Africa proved to the world?" As it turned out, however, 9/11 was not about "American oppression". It was about hate filled men seeking a way to gain more power on the planet. I don't think their plan worked, by the way.

 

No, God bless America! And indeed, God does bless this country.

 

Oh, one last point: The USA did not invent nor advance the cause of racism, slavery, or human brutality. Those practices predate our country by countless thousands of years. Oftentimes, people paint a picture of an idealistic world that the USA came along and soiled or something like that. Life was then, and has always been, quite cruel and unfair. It was in the America's, it was in Africa, and it was in Europe. The USA did not fall from an otherwise, humane world, instead this country rose out of what was otherwise a cruel and ruthless world for everyone!

 

"To whom much has been given, but shall be expected" as the Bible teaches. To the degree that this is true, our generation has an obligation to continue the great work that was began by our great forefathers.

 

[keithb]

sent you a PM

[Mister Tee]

I really, really wish my fellow brothers would leave our Nation's racist history behind, and move forward as if it never existed. Barak Obama isn't my first choice of candidates, nor is he the ideal man I want to be our first black President, but my hope is that, if elected, he will go far to show our young black youth that there is hope, and there is a reason to leave the ghettos behind, and become educated and articulate.

[bendbill]

 

Nicely said, beemerman2k. Obama securing the nomination says something good about America. I would add that his command of the language and appeal to higher values catapulted him to his now-historic role.

 

And Francois's note that we are set apart from other countries because of our optimism is a sound observation.

[TyTass]

I don't really agree with many of his policies (I'm a Ron Paul kinda guy!). But I am nonetheless pleased that yet another so-called "barrier" has fallen in this great country.

Me too on both counts! And I agree it is important and should go far in relieving some of the tensions that do, unfortunately, still linger for too many in this wonderful country.

 

I am just flat out lucky that I was born in this great nation. But I echo Patrick Henry -- a patriot who fought for the establishment of our nation -- when I say, "I regret that I only have one life to give for my country".

Sorry to be pedantic, James, but it's in my nature. It wasn't Patrick Henry who quoted this phrase. It was Nathan Hale just before being hanged by the British as a spy (which indeed he was).

 

Let me tell you this: some 231 years later, time has proven yet again that the founding fathers of this great nation got it right the first time. Yes, let us constructively criticize our nation as we work to make it better, but let us do so in all humility. We are all too blessed to be in any real position to criticize and judge the work of those great founders.

And let us be "eternally vigilant" to ensure that those we empower to steer this country, create laws, or preside over us do so with humility in mind.

 

[Ken H.]

I agree with you. It IS historical that some barriers have fallen as a result of this campaign. And something we can be proud off.

 

But I have but one question, "America, what took you so long?"

 

Women and minorities have been leaders of other major countries around the world for decades. It's not like we're breaking any new ground here, championing advancements of society, charting a new course for humanity.

 

3-cheers if (and it's still a big "if", November is a long ways away yet) we elect a person to the presidency that breaks away for our past pattern, I'm not trying to take away from that. But, "there is nothing that compares" ??? Pleazzzze.

[PhillyFlash]

I really, really wish my fellow brothers would leave our Nation's racist history behind, and move forward as if it never existed.

 

I disagree with you on this. I think it's important that we don't leave our racist, or anti-semitic, or sexist, history behind. It is an important part of our history, albeit, a sad part. It represents how far we've come in so short a time, but, also, how far we still have to go.

 

 

[Ken H.]

Every time I hear someone denounce this nation because of it's racist past, I just kinda shake my head in disgust.

Well I have a bit different slant (big surprise right?) on the raciest issue and the whole, “I wish we were color blind” angle some (many?) people advocate. Rather than try to ignore color (or any other for that matter) differences, which is impossible anyway, we need to embrace them. We need to (once again in time) recognize that our differences are our greatest strength.

 

Because out of differences in how we all view things, come solutions to the problems and issues we face. Basic Diversity Theory 101. Multiple people looking at a problem from different angles provide the maximum amount of potential solutions, and thus the greatest chance of the true solution revealing itself. Regardless of subject actually.

 

A trend toward a homogenous society is a trend toward a stagnant (at best) one. But because of the stain of slavery on our past in the USA, we’re so scared that if we ever even mention a difference, in particular a differences in ancestry; it will somehow be viewed as an endorsement of /agreement with all that slavery stood for.

 

Rather, IMHO we would better serve our future if we were willing to stand up and say, “Yes (s)he’s black, and that’s a good thing!” Not specifically because the person is black but because the person is different. And each difference, in all of us, represents an opportunity not offered by sameness.

 

[VinnyR11]

...I'm not trying to take away from that. But, "there is nothing that compares" ??? Pleazzzze.

 

Over the years I've been lucky enough to travel throughout Europe, India, and the Far East on a very regular basis, including living and working 4 years in Germany during the fall of the wall. I've made close friends in many countries, and I have to agree that when it comes to a truly multi-cultural melting pot, from all the places I've been, "there is nothing that compares."

 

What do you base your "Pleazzzze" on? Of course there are people, (too many) that hold hatred in our country, but walk down the streets of Manhattan and listen to the different languages spoken on every block and all different kinds of people in general really getting along. Tell me where you've spent a lot of time that compares more favorably.

[Selden]

In 1965 I was going to college in Istanbul. We had two exchange students from Hampton Institute in Virginia, one of the historically black colleges. It didn't take long to realize that no matter what our differences, above everything else we were Americans.

 

I have often been frustrated (even mad as hell) with the current administration, but I can't imagine being anything other than an American.

[DiggerJim]

OK, in a separate post, I want to comment on that common experience.

Thanks. BTW, when are we gonna see you down here at one of Paul's Tech Daze events? You're not that far north

[DiggerJim]

Sorry to be pedantic, James, but it's in my nature. It wasn't Patrick Henry who quoted this phrase. It was Nathan Hale just before being hanged by the British as a spy (which indeed he was).

Patrick Henry was most famous for this little speech:

 

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

 

Although it wasn't written down anywhere until something like 40 or 50 years later so there's some doubt he actually said it. It was also a bit out of character - his writing & speeches could be fairly densely packed. He had a thing for long run on sentences with lots of commas

 

 

[Mister Tee]

Every time I hear someone denounce this nation because of it's racist past, I just kinda shake my head in disgust.

Well I have a bit different slant (big surprise right?) on the raciest issue and the whole, “I wish we were color blind” angle some (many?) people advocate. Rather than try to ignore color (or any other for that matter) differences, which is impossible anyway, we need to embrace them. We need to (once again in time) recognize that our differences are our greatest strength.

 

Because out of differences in how we all view things, come solutions to the problems and issues we face. Basic Diversity Theory 101. Multiple people looking at a problem from different angles provide the maximum amount of potential solutions, and thus the greatest chance of the true solution revealing itself. Regardless of subject actually.

 

A trend toward a homogenous society is a trend toward a stagnant (at best) one. But because of the stain of slavery on our past in the USA, we’re so scared that if we ever even mention a difference, in particular a differences in ancestry; it will somehow be viewed as an endorsement of /agreement with all that slavery stood for.

 

Rather, IMHO we would better serve our future if we were willing to stand up and say, “Yes (s)he’s black, and that’s a good thing!” Not specifically because the person is black but because the person is different. And each difference, in all of us, represents an opportunity not offered by sameness.

 

I think that is a very good, practical way to look at it, and I feel the same way. I personally would be much happier if someone looked at me and thought "That man is probably really good at..." as opposed to "Gee, I feel bad about the history his people had to endure..." I don't WANT sympathy, I don't WANT affirmative action, nor do I need it.

[Peter W]

My experience is that stereotyping comes from some common behaviour, whether it is gender or race related. Racism tends to come from stereotyping. My experiences with INDIVIDUALS of race or gender come from personal interaction, and end up not being influenced, quickly, by sterotypes. My choice of friends, who I like personally, or who I might like to be president wouldn't affect at all any generalizations I might have heard or acquired (not that I like to acquire generalizations, but they exist). Obama or Clinton becoming president as an individual, I think, would have little affect on overall racism or genderism since they stand apart from the groups very clearly. They will likely have little effect on the behavior of the rest of their gender/race.

 

Though it certainly is a step forward.

 

My lousy $0.20

 

 

[Peter W]

Please let me clarify quickly, that when I said a group's actions create sterotypes, I did not mean anything negative, I only meant they created group actions that may offend those who have prejudices otherwise.

 

Sorry for the lack of clarity.

[Ken H.]

Tell me where you've spent a lot of time that compares more favorably.

Canada

[VinnyR11]

Tell me where you've spent a lot of time that compares more favorably.

Canada

 

From what I've experienced, I disagree, but that's fine. Also, their ethnic and racial diversity is nowhere close to the USA...OK, maybe not compared to Kansas ;>) (only joking)

 

I don't believe any city within Canada has the ethnic diversity rivaling NY or San Fran. That's just a gut feel from visits to a few major cities in Canada. I would have to check the stats on that to be certain.

[bakerzdosen]

I don't believe any city within Canada has the ethnic diversity rivaling NY or San Fran. That's just a gut feel from visits to a few major cities in Canada. I would have to check the stats on that to be certain.

My X (who is Canadian and worked for the CBC in Toronto for a while) always argued that Toronto was Canada's New York in that it was VERY racially diverse. Although I've never been to Toronto (it's on the list), I've known several people from Latin America who have worked in Toronto for a time. That's what happens when you have a very lax immigration policy - you get diversity.

[beemerman2k]

All great thoughts on this thread indeed.

 

As far as the question as to why it took the USA so long with respect to other developed nations in diversifying it's leadership, I can only guess. A couple of my responses include:

 

- it didn't. The leadership of most every developed nation has consisted of a representative of the majority population of that nation, even if the representative was a female and...

 

- the highly competitive nature of our society. Slavery and segregation weren't tools invented to satisfy some unique racial hatred whites had toward blacks, they were devised as tools to enrich the rich! In fact, the racial hatred itself was developed as a means to justify this evil institution -- it had a reason for its existence beyond some "strange need whites had to hate black people". If blacks could be seen as something less than fully human, then it must not be a sin to enslave them or so the rationale went. Anyhow, not all slave holders believed in the institution; many owned slaves because it was a "sink or swim" economy back in those days. There was no such thing as "economic safety nets", so it was get rich or toss the fate of you and your family to the wind. I don't say this as a justification of slavery, I am only trying to drive the point home that "slave owner" is not necessarily equal to "evil white person who hates non-white people".

 

For example, I have spoken with both my black ancestors (I have a family reunion this summer in Memphis, TN) and the white descendants of the slave owners of my ancestors. I learned some amazing things, too. When the Civil War broke out, many of my black ancestors left the plantation to go fight for the North. How did they leave? They were literally excused by the white slave owners to go and do so, and they were welcomed upon their return! How often do you read about that in the history books? Furthermore, after the war, the white former slave owners literally gave some 66 acres of farmland to the former slaves so they could work and feed themselves. That land stayed in my family up until around 1967. This all took place in what is now called, "Williston, TN", a town just east of Memphis.

 

Learning this about my own family history really opened my eyes to the overly simplistic way slavery is viewed in these modern times. It's not just a simple, "black and white" issue, its a bit more complex than that in all reality.

 

Nonetheless, just like we today seize any legitimate advantage we can over others in the competitive labor marketplace, so too did our ancestors. I am just thankful that we as a nation have grown enlightened to a point where we see that we need bounds put upon us as to the nature of how we compete. We cannot allow ourselves the luxury of discriminating upon whole segments of the American population based upon race, gender, sexual orientation, religion (or lack thereof), physical disabilities, or whatever. We cannot allow the imprisonment of others so that we can gain an advantage over the competition. And we cannot discriminate on who gets funding for their educations or business ventures based upon the categories listed above. Such boundaries came with lots of sacrifice, blood, a Civil War, and costs I cannot begin to imagine.

 

Barak Obama, Hillary Clinton, and countless others will campaign for the Presidency today in relative peace because of the sacrifices of those who came before them, and because of the values and ethics firmly established by this nations founders. People of ALL races, genders, and economic backgrounds fought to make this a reality in the United States. So I stand in honor of them ALL.

 

I contend that if Canada and many other of the "developed nations" were as economically competitive as the United States, you'd see at best a similar history in those nations as you do in ours. After all, slavery still exists on this planet. Where? In highly competitive places that do not have any sort of economic safety nets -- like some countries in Africa of all places!

[Ken H.]

Slavery and segregation weren't tools invented to satisfy some unique racial hatred whites had toward blacks, they were devised as tools to enrich the rich! In fact, the racial hatred itself was developed as a means to justify this evil institution -- it had a reason for its existence beyond some "strange need whites had to hate black people". If blacks could be seen as something less than fully human, then it must not be a sin to enslave them or so the rationale went.

I think that's quite right, at least to a point. The dehumanization of the enemy is a common tool in warfare. Ingrain into soldiers' minds that the enemy are something less than 'true people.' Inferior beings. So went slavery. One of my favorite sayings is, "Never underestimate the ability of the human mind to justify its own actions."

 

I say, "to a point" because I don't thing the superiority-complex of the European ancestored white males can be totally discounted, fueled by a (largely) Christian belief system enforced feeling of a preordained by "God" destiny/right/responsibility even, to re-mold the world into their own image. It goes on to this day.

[beemerman2k]

Interesting point, Ken. You just added another dimension to my understanding of historical events. In any case, things are much more complex than the simplistic bumper sticker understanding we place upon historical and social phenomenon.

 

Let me say this last point: I am not at all endorsing the practice of what Lou Dobbs of CNN calls, "group and identity" politics. I pray we don't end up with a President who is voted into office because he is black, or because she is a woman, or because he is white. If God still regards this place as a country worth saving, then we'll be blessed with the person the people judge as being the most qualified for the job.

 

But if the person so judged turns out to be a non-white or non-male, that will be a powerful symbol of just how far we have come as a nation. But I suspect that the honeymoon will quickly pass. The novelty will wear off and then it will be back to business. Is this President leading the country in a manner worthy of the office? That is the bottom line question for any occupant of that office, and race or gender does not grant one a pass. There are no "affirmative action" points with this job -- you can either cut it or you cannot. Period.

[beemerman2k]

...but my hope is that, if elected, he will go far to show our young black youth that there is hope, and there is a reason to leave the ghettos behind, and become educated and articulate.

 

Mister-Tee: I believe this will be the outcome of this election season. At least, I share with you your strong hope that it does. I don't see how it cannot change the nature of the perspectives, though. This goes a long way toward destroying the notion that power and opportunity in America are limited only to those of a certain race and/or gender.

 

The other battle that our youth has to recon with, however, is with the criminal justice system. We're going to have to do something about the relationship of our young people and police departments all over the country. My other hope is that once our people get the message that the doors stand open and only lack enough people of all pursuasions to actually walk through them, then the old arguments that blame racism for someone's limited options will grow old, tired, and obviously silly. I pray that then we will deal with the more real issues concerning our families, our parenting, and as a result -- as an important side effect of our efforts -- the police will have nothing left to do in the ghetto neighborhoods anymore!

 

Imagine that.

[Ken H.]

I pray we don't end up with a President who is voted into office because he is black, or because she is a woman, or because he is white. If God still regards this place as a country worth saving, then we'll be blessed with the person the people judge as being the most qualified for the job.

 

But if the person so judged turns out to be a non-white or non-male, that will be a powerful symbol of just how far we have come as a nation. But I suspect that the honeymoon will quickly pass. The novelty will wear off and then it will be back to business. Is this President leading the country in a manner worthy of the office? That is the bottom line question for any occupant of that office, and race or gender does not grant one a pass. There are no "affirmative action" points with this job -- you can either cut it or you cannot. Period.

Can't argue with any of that!

[VinnyR11]

I don't believe any city within Canada has the ethnic diversity rivaling NY or San Fran. That's just a gut feel from visits to a few major cities in Canada. I would have to check the stats on that to be certain.

My X (who is Canadian and worked for the CBC in Toronto for a while) always argued that Toronto was Canada's New York in that it was VERY racially diverse. Although I've never been to Toronto (it's on the list), I've known several people from Latin America who have worked in Toronto for a time. That's what happens when you have a very lax immigration policy - you get diversity.

 

As I said, I hadn't checked the stats, so I just did that. Toronto is pretty diverse with 63% of the population white, 23% Asian, followed by 8% black, 4% Filipino, and only 2% Latino. (2006 stats) Just as an aside, Canadian diversity usually shows up as a very high percentage of Asians falling off dramatically afterward with other ethnicity. After looking at the stats, Toronto is more diverse than I thought, although still not as diverse as NYC.

 

NYC has 44% white, 29% black, 11% Asian, 17% other (2005 stats). Also, keep in mind that Toronto's population is only about 13% of New York's so there are a TON of very different people getting along pretty darn well in the Big Apple. I looked up San Fran's stats and you could argue that it is even more diverse than NYC.

 

I have absolutely nothing against Canada. I really enjoy going there and like the people. It's just that it drives me nuts when people keep saying that all these other countries are so much more accepting and open than we are. In most cases it's just not true.

[Ken H.]

I don't believe any city within Canada has the ethnic diversity rivaling NY or San Fran. That's just a gut feel from visits to a few major cities in Canada. I would have to check the stats on that to be certain.

My X (who is Canadian and worked for the CBC in Toronto for a while) always argued that Toronto was Canada's New York in that it was VERY racially diverse. Although I've never been to Toronto (it's on the list), I've known several people from Latin America who have worked in Toronto for a time. That's what happens when you have a very lax immigration policy - you get diversity.

 

As I said, I hadn't checked the stats, so I just did that. Toronto is pretty diverse with 63% of the population white, 23% Asian, followed by 8% black, 4% Filipino, and only 2% Latino. (2006 stats) Just as an aside, Canadian diversity usually shows up as a very high percentage of Asians falling off dramatically afterward with other ethnicity. After looking at the stats, Toronto is more diverse than I thought, although still not as diverse as NYC.

 

NYC has 44% white, 29% black, 11% Asian, 17% other (2005 stats). Also, keep in mind that Toronto's population is only about 13% of New York's so there are a TON of very different people getting along pretty darn well in the Big Apple. I looked up San Fran's stats and you could argue that it is even more diverse than NYC.

 

I have absolutely nothing against Canada. I really enjoy going there and like the people. It's just that it drives me nuts when people keep saying that all these other countries are so much more accepting and open than we are. In most cases it's just not true.

Where did you get the stats?

I wonder what Vancouver looks like?

[VinnyR11]

.......

 

As I said, I hadn't checked the stats, so I just did that. Toronto is pretty diverse with 63% of the population white, 23% Asian, followed by 8% black, 4% Filipino, and only 2% Latino. (2006 stats) Just as an aside, Canadian diversity usually shows up as a very high percentage of Asians falling off dramatically afterward with other ethnicity. After looking at the stats, Toronto is more diverse than I thought, although still not as diverse as NYC.

 

NYC has 44% white, 29% black, 11% Asian, 17% other (2005 stats). Also, keep in mind that Toronto's population is only about 13% of New York's so there are a TON of very different people getting along pretty darn well in the Big Apple. I looked up San Fran's stats and you could argue that it is even more diverse than NYC.

 

I have absolutely nothing against Canada. I really enjoy going there and like the people. It's just that it drives me nuts when people keep saying that all these other countries are so much more accepting and open than we are. In most cases it's just not true.

Where did you get the stats?

I wonder what Vancouver looks like?

 

Stats were from the city of Toronto's website Toronto stats and Wikipedia for NYC. Vancouver's minority is, as I would have guessed and stated above, almost entirely Asian, although there is a lot of diversity within the Asian group. The black and Latino populations only make up around 1% of the population each.