Good Point and shoot needed

[Todd_Z1]

I am looking to replace my 6 year old Olympus 3.3 megapixel camera with a new one so I am looking for suggestions. I need something that stows flat, can be hung around the neck on a lanyard for taking quick point and shoot pictures while riding and has telephoto, image stabilization and red spot reduction, budget about $250. What would be really useful and fun is if you have a camera you like, provide a link to pictures you have taken with it. I know megapixels is not as important as the quality of the optical sensor (CCD) and/or the lenses so I am open to spending a little more if this will visibly improve the image quality.

 

Cheers!

 

Todd

[keithb]

Todd

Contact Steves1150plus50. He recommended the Canon A530 I now use and it is a great camera. If you budget is $250 you can certainly buy a better camera than mine. Two years ago it was $150. By the time I got out of the store it was $200 after buying a larger memory card.

[bakerzdosen]

OK, I don't own one personally, but if I were looking, I'd look at these:

 

Panasonic DMC-TZ4 or DMC-TZ5.

 

Ricoh R8

 

Canon SD870 is

 

I'm typically a Canon guy myself, but Panasonic makes a pretty nice camera (with typically very nice lenses). If you're a Costco member, I'd give serious consideration to the Panny there. The tz4 does take sdhc cards, so getting a decent sized (8gb)sd card should be easy and cheap (under $40 shipped at newegg) compared to just a year or two ago. Get at least a class 6 as they're not much more. Just remember that you need an sdhc card reader...

 

 

[Lone_RT_rider]

OK, I don't own one personally, but if I were looking, I'd look at these:

 

Panasonic DMC-TZ4 or DMC-TZ5.

 

 

I was looking at the specs on the Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ5 and I hope the max temp spec is on the conservative side. Somehow 104 F doesn't seem like much. Wouldn't that negate using it for over half the year in AZ?

 

Shawn

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

I've been looking at cameras again... Here are some thoughts;

 

What battery type works best for you? I like the AA capability of the Canon A-series cameras. You can find packages of 8 2000 mAH Ni-MH rechargables for about $30 (the cost of a second battery for most cameras) and in a pinch, run to the store for more batteries. In my wife's camera, that's 4 sets of batteries that will take 50-60 pictures each before needing charging. If you do get one with proprietary batteries, don't worry about international travel, most of the chargers are designed to handle a broad spectrum of electricity.

 

Format of storage: If you want to really edit your pictures and print them in large scale (size not volume) then you'll want something that shoots RAW and has a high pixel count. If you're going to put them on the web then JPG format and a "not-as-high" pixel count is fine. Conceivably, if you're just after 5x7 prints you could get away with a 4-6 Mega-pixel camera.

 

Zoom: High "x" optical zooms are great for the long shot but typically make a camera bigger. Most of the time a point and shoot will need some sort of image stabilization to handle a big zoom because of the small aperatures. Digital zoom cuts into the quality of your image. I don't usually consider digital zoom as an asset and turn it off of all my cameras.

 

Some newer cameras are water resistant and shock proof. I think that you give up a bit in features for those- a trade off, so to speak.

 

There was an insert in today's Chronicle that seemed to have some reasonable prices on several Canon cameras, but if you're not in a hurry you could probably get a better deal online.

 

I recently bought from www.beachcamera.com and had a good experience. Their price was lowwer than amazon (by a good margin) but not so low that I thought I'd get ripped off.

[Bob Palin]

Canon SD870 is

Seconded, I have the SD800 which was superseded by the 870, Mrs Whip uses an SD800 for her pictures which is what led me to buy one. It's a bit hard to point you at pictures I've taken with it as they are all mixed up with the SLR pictures. You can go to Flickr where there are 2.2 million pictures taken with an SD870 - that should keep you busy

 

Canon makes a range of these SD point and shoots, what makes the SD870 the right one for me is the wider angle lens which few of them have, you can usually zoom in on something that's far away or just use part of the picture, you can never get a wider view than the lens allows (without stitching anyway).

[Selden]

I've been researching a new travel camera for several months, and plan to buy a Panasonic TZ5, which is a little over your price point. However, the TZ4 is almost identical, and has gotten very good reviews. Currently listed for $222 on Amazon.

 

It's quite compact -- amazingly so for a 10X zoom, has effective image stabilization, and uses SD memory cards. The form factor of this camera would fit well in a tank bag or chest pocket of a riding jacket.

 

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2008_reviews/panasonic_tz4_pg5.html

[tallman]

Dang,

How come this isn't a gun thread?

Point and shoot...

deceptive advertising.

[Todd_Z1]

Killer,

 

The Canon SD870 is looking good. The pictures posted on Flickr look pretty good for my needs. What has been your experience with the battery pack? The specifications suggest 270 still images per charge but I would suspect that is without flash. Since this takes proprietary batteries or at least it takes non standard sizes real world experience would help. I suspect additional batteries can be purchased. I rarely take more than 40 or 50 photos per day so this is probably adequate.

 

Boney,

 

I don't think I would be messing with processing RAW images and I am not sure that a point and shoot would support this format. I would think I would need image processing software to handle the conversion from RAW to a compressed format such as JPEG? With respect to ISO settings the Canon SD870 looks like this is selectable which I would also like to be able to use as I would like to try my hand at some close ups.

 

One more thing. I think Jacqueline showed my a neat little flexible camera stand that folds up extremely small but has extensible legs. Anyone know what I am talking about? Jacqueline?

 

Cheers!

 

Todd

 

 

[Bob Palin]

I've never exhausted the battery pack but I'm not AzKaisr so that's not much of a test (he took 870 pictures in one day!) I bought a couple of spare packs, you don't need to get the Canon proprietary packs, off brands seem to work just as well and are much cheaper (I've used them in my previous P&S cameras)

 

I think you're probably referring to the mini GorillaPod stand, I have the mini and the SLR version, they work great.

 

Older Canon P&S cameras did take RAW but they gave it up on the SD series. You do need software to convert RAW to JPG, it comes with the camera. I take RAW with my SLR and adjust the RAW images but it sure is a lot of fuss.

[Todd_Z1]

GorillaPod, yep that is THE ONE! Thanks Killa! I don't want to mess with image formatting and adjusting color and what not on RAW images. I just take three or four of every picture and select the best one. Usually at least one of them comes out ok.

 

Cheers!

 

Todd

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

I don't think I would be messing with processing RAW images and I am not sure that a point and shoot would support this format. I would think I would need image processing software to handle the conversion from RAW to a compressed format such as JPEG? With respect to ISO settings the Canon SD870 looks like this is selectable which I would also like to be able to use as I would like to try my hand at some close ups.

 

Yep, the RAW files are for those who want total control. A jPG file is compressed, and in the minds of many, inferior. For what most of us use a camera, the JPG is just fine. BTW, the Canon G9 is (from what I can tell) the smallest camera currently on the market that shoots RAW- and it's not all that small compared to any of the Canon SD models or even the A models. You would need software, like bob said, to convert the RAW to JPG, but the camera will do it too.

 

Think of ISO as "gain." The higher you turn it, the more "background" noise you camera will capture. It is visible and varys by chip.

[Twisties]

Todd,

 

Most of our winter ride tale was shot with the 870 IS. In fact Phase III was shot exclusivly with the 870. In the other parts of the tale the fuji super zoom was used extensively only at the Arizona-Sonoran Desert Museum.

 

Using the 870 I found: Generally better image quality than the fuji (not the best fuji out there). Much faster performance. It is lightning fast (performance wise, not as in aperature). The camera easily rides in the outer breast pocket of my jacket, and could work on a lanyard (but I don't want anything around my neck when riding).

 

Drawbacks include nearly worthless macro mode. Won't focus on objects of some colors. Red for instance. Very frustrating!

 

We charge the battery once every several days. As Killer said, extras are available cheap. We got one for ten bucks on Amazon.

 

Please note that in the point and shoot class in general, and the superzoom class (some of the models people have mentioned are superzooms) mega-pixels are coming at the expense of sensor noise.

 

Let us know what you choose.

 

Jan

 

 

 

Now that I have a dSLR, I can much more readily se the flaws in the 870's images. Often Sharon and I are taking roughly the same shot at the same time with the two cameras. It's making me use the 870 much less.

[velomoto]

The "wide angle" of most point and shoot cameras is around 35mm - some only to 37mm. IMO this is not a wide angle and limits scenery pic's or getting indoor shots of "the whole gang".

 

The Canon SD870 IS goes to 28mm. There are a few others which also go this wide, but you'll need to look to find these as they aren't the norm. You should be able to find the SD870 for around $300. There used to be point-n-shoot cameras with 24mm equivalent lenses, but I'm not aware of any still being made. The trade off in going to a wider lens is that you'll have a shorter telephoto.

[Bob Palin]

You can easily find an 870 for $250-$260, then you have to buy a card and a spare battery but probably still comes in at $300.

[velomoto]

Another weakness of some point-n-shoot cameras: can't focus well in low light. I've got an older 4MP Kodak which has a wonderful lens and takes great pic's... or at least they're great if there is sufficient light for it to focus! A poorly lighted store would be ideal to compare focus speed as most cameras are good in bright light. Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. must know this as they always seem to have ample light!

[Todd_Z1]

Twisties,

 

Those are pretty decent pictures for a point and shoot. Did you take those pictures using all automatic settings or did you try using some of the different settings? I am wondering if a little more performance can be squeezed out of this camera.

 

Cheers!

 

Todd

[Twisties]

Bob, (Killer) is going to kill me, but I still haven't gotten round to reading the manual on the thing. So far as I know it has only automatic and several "scene modes".

 

Some time ago, I said that I will point it at the sky and pre-focus to get good exposure on mountains in scenes, with a dark foreground. He told me it had some feature or other that I still have not looked into.

 

Unfortunately, it has nothing like aperature or shutter priority mode. I believe you can set it to under or over expose a bit, yes, you can. However, like virtually everything in it's class, not much real control.

 

Oh, I just checked dpreview looking for the Ricoh that I recalled has some manual control. Looks like all the sudden in '08 there are a lot more point and shoots with some control. Search dpreview, buying guide, features search. format = compact; aperature priority = yes

 

Anyway, it's a decent little thing. cnet and dpreview have both reviewed it. They have a better perspective on the range than I do. We got it last fall when it first came out, and I haven't kept track of the market since then.

 

I can say, surprisingly, I don't miss the viewfinder at all, especially on the bike.

 

Best,

 

Jan

[Bob Palin]

Tsk, tsk. I think it was the metering we talked about, it has Evaluative which is its normal mode, centre weighted and spot. They are easily settable from the Function button.

 

I don't miss the viewfinder either, even though I always thought I would want one and the 800 has one I never use it.

[Twisties]

I guess I didn't fully answer your question. Yes we use the scene modes.

[Dick_at_Lake_Tahoe_NV]

If you decide on the Panasonic TZ4, Costco has it on Sale through June 22 for $200--quite a bargain for a camera with 10X optical zoom, 28mm wide angle and Image stabilization. Also includes a 1GB SD card, good for about 250 pictures, and a camera case.

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

Things I learned from the BMWMOA photos forum:

 

Using Canon Cameras, the scene modes do several things. They adjust the tint of the image and priority of the aperature/shutter speed, not to mention various other elements like flash-sync. Understanding the settings the camera is designed to use in each mode could conceivably allow you to "trick" the camera to use a group of settings for something which they weren't intended.

 

My point is that you can get extra performance out of it, you'll just have to understand what it's doing in each mode to get the extra performance.

[Bob Palin]

My point is that you can get extra performance out of it, you'll just have to understand what it's doing in each mode to get the extra performance.

At that point is it really a 'Point and Shoot' camera any more?