Did anybody really win the Blu-ray - HD-DVD war?

[RonStewart]

It has been a few month since Toshiba pulled the plug on HD-DVD, and my local video store now has a few Blu-ray titles. But the cheapest Blu-ray player is still $400 in Canada, compared to $50 for DVD. The cheapest Blu-ray burner on Amazon is $280 compared to $42 for DVD. External Blu-ray burners are $500. I don't know anybody who has bought any Blu-ray equipment other than PS3s - and they bought those for the games.

 

My impression is that the Blu-ray technology is not taking off, and that people are still waiting. HD-DVD has certainly lost, but Blu-ray and consumers have yet to win. A total victory will not be achieved until the hardware gets under $100, and that has to beat downloaded on-demand HD programming.

 

Thoughts?

[Ralph]

Prices have come down some around here. The disc's are relatively less expensive on amazon, and you can find them slightly used on the AVS forum. As for anything SONY, you as the consumer are at a disadvantage when it comes to pricing. That is one reason I wish Toshiba had won out again.

[smiller]

Blu-ray players will be $100 as soon as they run out of people willing to pay $400.

[Ralph]

Being in the Audio/video business, I should have one, but will not buy at these prices. Besides, my OPPO 983 up converting DVD player is near Bluray quality for video & also does every other format you can throwat it, plus DVD audio & SACD audio. (Although i use neither.)

[upflying]

I still listen to AM radio in my truck and use rabbit ears to watch TV. I have no clue how MP3 works, don't do video games and still have a ton of cassette tapes, 8 tracks, albums and VCR tapes I haven't listened to or watched yet. I still have a phone with a wire on it and it took me years before I trusted using an ATM machine. I have a cell phone but seldom use it. I still have not figured out how to text with it. Reading instruction manuals for techno gadgets is torture. I will get around to owning Blue Ray some day.

[Gregori]

Pfft - who cares?

Maybe I'm in the minority, but it's just a freakin' TV.

 

No, wait - it's NOT a tv - it's just a hyped up VCR, You need a multi-thousand dollar TV to get the 'quality viewing' of the bluray disc to your eyeballs, right?

 

Sorry - but I think that for the kind of money that 'entertainment' gear costs, you could buy some REAL entertainment. Perhaps even a lot of tires and gas, and see some places that will give you a lifetime of memories, instead of a bunch of evenings wasted while immersed in a hi-deaf (sic!) surround-sound version of someone else's fantasy, that in most cases you'll promptly forget.

 

[motoguy128]

Sorry - but I think that for the kind of money that 'entertainment' gear costs, you could buy some REAL entertainment. Perhaps even a lot of tires and gas, and see some places that will give you a lifetime of memories, instead of a bunch of evenings wasted while immersed in a hi-deaf (sic!) surround-sound version of someone else's fantasy, that in most cases you'll promptly forget.

 

Can you ride a lot for that much money... sure and I can tour on a $5000 used sportbike... but I'll take my HDTV, and my R1200RT thank you.

 

My wife and I enjoy "winding down" after a long day to some mindless entertainment on TV. Theres no thinking or comprehending... we do that all day long. I don't live in a "big city' so there's no 2 wheel Tues. or Wed. night meets to ride too. Motorcycle trips are for the weekend. TV is my escape during the week.

[Stir]

I still listen to AM radio in my truck and use rabbit ears to watch TV. I have no clue how MP3 works, don't do video games and still have a ton of cassette tapes, 8 tracks, albums and VCR tapes I haven't listened to or watched yet. I still have a phone with a wire on it and it took me years before I trusted using an ATM machine. I have a cell phone but seldom use it. I still have not figured out how to text with it. Reading instruction manuals for techno gadgets is torture. I will get around to owning Blue Ray some day.

 

It is amazing that you found your way here!

[Aluminum_Butt]

The players have come down a lot. Two years ago, they were over $1000. Now, they're $400 on the low end. It may take 2-4 years (like it did with DVD), but I don't know of any reason to think you won't see sub-$100 players eventually.

 

Some other things are going to have to come into the mix. Blu-ray is only going to really be a benefit to those with 1080p/i TV's. Those are on the market and reasonably affordable now, and more will be bought with the conversion to DTV coming next year. But, there's still a lot of older CRT sets out there.

 

People are going to have to see them in action - to get the wow! factor. Even then, those people are going to have to care about the difference they see. Most people in this world aren't videophiles. Many people will never be able to see the difference in Blu-ray and DVD that's been upconverted to 1080p.

 

The technology is going to have to get easier to use. HDMI is helping with that, as a one-cable solution. The general population just couldn't deal with multiple connectors - fiber or coax for sound, multiple RCA connections for component video, DVI connections. Even then, I don't know if the majority of the population is capable of hooking up a surround-sound receiver, even with straight HDMI, and managing the multiple video outputs on their TV.

[leikam]

I'm really hoping that I don't have to buy a blu-ray player. I'm very much over having a personal library of DVDs and VCR tapes taking up space; physical media is inconvenient. Just give me an on-demand service through my cable provider that's reasonably priced and has a Netflix-sized library to choose from.

[SeanC]

Pfft - who cares?

Maybe I'm in the minority, but it's just a freakin' TV.

Count me in the minority too. My in-laws offered to buy us a flat-screen TV for Christmas -- any model/size we wanted. Well, it's almost June and my wife and I still haven't been motivated enough to even shop for one. Blu-ray? It may as well be Death Ray for all I'm concerned.

 

Besides, it took me a couple of hours to get all the cords, wires and cables properly connected to and from the stereo amp, DVD player, cable box, blah blah blah, eight years ago. It's not something I want to do twice in the same decade.

 

And it's not like the entertainment CONTENT has improved over the years. It still sucks as much as it ever has. Does an expensive, high-def system make it suck any less.... or does it merely satisfy one's Gadget Lust?

[motoguy128]

And it's not like the entertainment CONTENT has improved over the years. It still sucks as much as it ever has. Does an expensive, high-def system make it suck any less.... or does it merely satisfy one's Gadget Lust?

 

Well, a road is still a road no matter what vehicle you use to travel on it right? Does the landscape look any different from a Harley, BMW, or a Cadillac? No, but what you traveling in changes how you enjoy what you're doing.

 

I think a TV can be the same way. Just like some people don't care what they drive, some don't care what the picture or sound wuality is in the home ent. system. But no, just because I have a HDTV, doesn't mean that the content of the programming has changed.

 

Although you do see more detail in the image, and well, a 47" TV above the fireplace is a very different experience than watching a 25" or 27" TV in the corner of the room. But again, some folks don't care about motorcycles, or even cars, just as some could care less about their TV.

 

On the positive side, with HDMI, the whole wire connection is greatly improved. 1 cable for sound and video. It looks like a USB connector.

[Aluminum_Butt]

Does an expensive, high-def system make it suck any less.... or does it merely satisfy one's Gadget Lust?

 

For me, there's a definite WOW factor to some of this stuff. Watching the technology can make even a bad program good. For example, I'd never watch nature scenes on regular TV, but some of the HD nature stuff can keep my attention for awhile. I don't personally give a crap about the critters, but I'm inspired by the photography and how good it looks on the TV.

 

I think there's some definite parallels to be drawn between riding Beemers and pursuing high-definition TV and surround sound. For some, all bikes look like a Honda CB750 - two wheels and an engine. For some, all TV's are just a picture displayed on a box.

 

My in-laws offered to buy us a flat-screen TV for Christmas -- any model/size we wanted. Well, it's almost June and my wife and I still haven't been motivated enough to even shop for one.

 

Tell me how big a space you want to fill, and I'll pick one out for you.

[Ralph]

I love movies, and have a good sized library of them. I like to sit down in the evenings & watch one I feel in the mood for at that time. And i watch them over & over. My wife watches one once & never again. With all the crap on TV now days, (except learning and those types of channels) I have the choice to pick whatever i want. I also have a few TV series of shows I liked, but hated commericals.

Just wait, 1440P tv,s are just around the corner. Broadcast quality.

[SeanC]

I'm not a "go read a book" snob (although that's never a bad idea), and I'm as prone as anyone else as far as positioning my ass prone-wise and watching TV is concerned, but so far my experience in that regard just doesn't seem to be lacking, I guess ("WOW" for me means being the only one in the house, watching SportsCenter or the Military Channel uninterrupted by requests for E! Entertainment or Thomas the Train).

 

Unlike my in-laws (who have flat-screens in damn near every room), we only have the one TV -- a 27" Sony stashed within something chicks call an "armoire" (a French term, I believe, meaning "hide all the guy stuff") positioned in a corner.

 

Anyway, I'll take you up on the offer. I'm thinking a 37" or 38" would be sufficient. We live in a 1920s bungalow, perfectly suited for, say, sitting around an RCA radio or Victorola, but anything much larger than that would need, well, a new house (the furniture that holds my in-law's JumboTron could hold my living room, so I'm not looking for anything with that much "WOW" size-wise). Do they even make 37" flat-screen TVs? Or are they all the drive-in movie screen size I see at CostCo?

[Ralph]

Sony XBR 6 has a 32" one i seen today at my friends store today. It looked real good to me.

[David]

You are a grumpy old codger way before your time.

 

Once you watch a sports game or the Discovery Channel in HD, you'll come around to modern humanity and its trappings. Be assimilated, chump.

[SeanC]

Yeah, I can just imagine my wife warming up to SportsCenter HD... "Linda Cohn has really nice pores... Boo-yah! I wonder what skin cleanser she uses?"

 

And I'm sure Finn will brag to his pre-school chums, "You haven't really experienced Sesame Street until you've watched it in High Def. Brought to you by the letters H and D. That's what I'm talkin' about!"

[Aluminum_Butt]

I'm thinking a 37" or 38" would be sufficient.

 

Based solely on that, here is my recommendation. It's brand new, and shipping toward the end of this month.

[motoguy128]

Do they even make 37" flat-screen TVs? Or are they all the drive-in movie screen size I see at CostCo?

 

That's actually a fairly good price point. My parents just bought a 37" LG for $800 or 900. It was such a good deal, they bought a second one. It's only 720p resolution, but at that screen size, you won't notice the difference between 720 and 1080. Especially if you're only using digital TV signal or Sattelite which only boradcasts in 1080i. Right now you only get 1080p from HD DVD's.

 

For mounting, the best way to go is a wall mount. No TV stands wasting space. You can use a swiveling mount in a corner, or just a regular wall mount. You can hide wires inside the wall as well, but only within the same vertical path becasue of the wall studs. Or get some plastic paintable conduit.

[SeanC]

I'm thinking a 37" or 38" would be sufficient.

 

Based solely on that, here is my recommendation. It's brand new, and shipping toward the end of this month.

That looks like a really sweet TV. I'd feel a bit awkward choosing one at that price point, however (the HDMI cable offered as an accessory for $79 bucks costs more than my DVD player). I mean, yeah, my father-in-law's paying for it, but it's sorta like ordering steak and lobster when someone else is paying for dinner. I'm not saying I want to order the chicken of flat-screens... maybe just a decent rib-eye or filet.

[SeanC]

For mounting, the best way to go is a wall mount. No TV stands wasting space.

That sounds cool, but what about the DVR, DVD player, and amp? My wife will certainly want some new piece of furniture to hide them in, and most likely it will be some teak thing that will cost more than all the other stuff combined. Me, I'd go with a wall mount and a server rack for the components.

[David]

Not only are you grumpy, but you are (apparently) whipped, too.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Not only are you grumpy, but you are (apparently) whipped, too.

 

Maybe that's why he's grumpy.

[RonStewart]

the HDMI cable offered as an accessory for $79 bucks costs more than my DVD player.

Shop around for HDMI cables. Like many things digital, you need "barely good enough" because "better than barely good enough" gives you no improvement in performance. That said, the deluxe stuff might last longer, like that drawer full of high-end parallel printer cables I am hording for the day when they come back in style.

[Ralph]

try blue jeans cable for HDMI.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/index.htm

[ghaverkamp]

the HDMI cable offered as an accessory for $79 bucks costs more than my DVD player.

Shop around for HDMI cables. Like many things digital, you need "barely good enough" because "better than barely good enough" gives you no improvement in performance. That said, the deluxe stuff might last longer, like that drawer full of high-end parallel printer cables I am hording for the day when they come back in style.

 

Definitely. I bought one of these. Lots cheaper than its $12 price, but Cables Unlimited has got a pretty good rep. So far, I've only used it with my Xbox 360, but it's worked, and it's established an HDCP connection without a problem, which is the main issue I've seen related to cheap HDMI cables.

[ghaverkamp]

try blue jeans cable for HDMI.

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/hdmi-cables/index.htm

 

And while visiting Blue Jeans, this page has lots of fun stuff.

[motoguy128]

HDMI is 100% digital, and while the failure rate and durability may be lower with a chape cable, the picture quality is a yes or no issue, not better or worse like analog connections. the one thing to remenber with cheap cables is don't bend them too sharply. Otherwise you can get $39 or $49 HDMI cables that work great. Also, only order the length you need.

 

For the DVD/VCR Amp, you can install a shelf... they make some nice looking ones, or if you have a closet nearby, mount them there (although hte remotes might not work). If you need to go laterally, you cna run cable in the attic or below the floor in the basement (if you have one). Of course the further away you go, the cables get more expensive. I think about 20' is the limit for HDMI cables I've seen.

 

[SeanC]

Not only are you grumpy, but you are (apparently) whipped, too.

Do you want to argue with a pregnant woman about furntiture?

 

Didn't think so.

 

Besides, the garage is mine. And it holds virtually everything that was mine before getting married. Well, the stuff that wasn't donated or sold on Craig's List anyway (damn I miss that leather and chrome TV chair...).

[Aluminum_Butt]

I'd feel a bit awkward choosing one at that price point

 

Sorry...I took your "any model/any size" literally. Though, honestly, if the in-laws are going to put up, say, $1000, then I'd put in the other $500 for this unit. But that's me.

 

Vizio and Olevia are two of the lower-end brands. For 37"/720p unit, you're looking at about $800. So, $800 to $1500 is the range.

 

What's your comfort level as far as price point?

 

Also, I fully agree with the other posts regarding cable costs. Expensive cables are not required. As far as I'm concerned, that's among the greatest scams of the last 20 years.

[SeanC]

Sorry...I took your "any model/any size" literally. Though, honestly, if the in-laws are going to put up, say, $1000, then I'd put in the other $500 for this unit. But that's me.

They would pick up the total cost of any unit I decided on, even $1500 for a 37"; I guess I just wouldn't feel comfortable letting them (they buy us too much stuff as it is).

 

Vizio and Olevia are two of the lower-end brands.

Yeah, I've never even heard of them (which doesn't mean much; I've probably never heard of a lot of brands).

 

Anyway, I'm thinking the range is $1000, which seems like it should balance Quality and Guilt.

 

Also, I fully agree with the other posts regarding cable costs. Expensive cables are not required. As far as I'm concerned, that's among the greatest scams of the last 20 years.

You mean the second greatest scam.... I'm sure the greatest scam is selling an extended warranty plan for those $79 cables.

[Aluminum_Butt]

Sorry for the delay in follow-up...it took me a few days to find the information I was looking for.

 

There are relatively few models in that 37" size. If you're going to go in the middle of the pack at that $1000 level, then reliability begins to take precedence over performance - the differences in performance won't be as remarkable. Honestly, though, there is not a big reliability difference between most of the majors. Consumer Reports did a reliability survey late last year, and basically rate Sony, Samsung, Toshiba, Panasonic, Pioneer, Hitachi, JVC, and Olevia as equals when it comes to reliability.

 

Past that, I couldn't find any reviews on 37" models where any of the $1000 players stood out. In fact, Olevia is one of the low-price "value" brands, and one review I have puts the Olevia 537H in second place behind a TV that costs twice as much. I really couldn't find any bad reviews on it either. If you Google "537H review" you'll find several. The 537H is about $800 on the street. It's a great value, and it's really what I'd recommend to you.

 

Note that Vizio (another big low-price brand besides Olevia) has a 37" unit for about $800. I'd take the Olevia over it any day - better performance and reliability figures.

 

For the most part, at 37" I think you're going to be stuck at 768p (versus 1080p) unless you go with the Sony. That's okay, but if you wait six months there may be more 1080p options in this size. You're going to be living with the set for several years, hopefully, and I personally wouldn't want to buy less than 1080p at this point.

 

The other thing I'd recommend is to go into a reputable home theater dealer and touch, feel, and see.

 

Good luck with whatever you choose!