Is having kids selfish?

[DiggerJim]

Now, were you and your mate to produce three children, then you could rightly claim to have created "more kids." But we know, in part, that God exists because such a scenario was too unthinkable to make it into the Book of Revelations ("And behold, I saw a pale horse and a bald rider. His name was Bob. And he was followed by three beasts from Hell: Nigel, Simon and Bobby Jr.")

I don't care which side of the discussion you're on, this is just too funny!

[RichEdwards]

I have to agree with my friend Tim...

My thesis is that "choosing" not to have children is inherently self-centered, egocentric, and counterproductive in today's world.

 

In my former life as a teacher, I saw too many children who were not the product of the union of two loving, thinking, hard-working, committed, inventive and creative people. And I'm saddened when people with those qualities make the decision to avoid parenthood. Yes, we should be concerned with the quantity of new people brought into this world, but the quality of those newbies is even more important. I'd rather see the best members of our society participate in populating the world with a high-quality new generation.

[Quinn]

So then, has anyone brought up William Shockley?

 

 

[Lets_Play_Two]

I have to agree with my friend Tim...

My thesis is that "choosing" not to have children is inherently self-centered, egocentric, and counterproductive in today's world.

 

In my former life as a teacher, I saw too many children who were not the product of the union of two loving, thinking, hard-working, committed, inventive and creative people. And I'm saddened when people with those qualities make the decision to avoid parenthood. Yes, we should be concerned with the quantity of new people brought into this world, but the quality of those newbies is even more important. I'd rather see the best members of our society participate in populating the world with a high-quality new generation.

 

You just took the first step on to a very slippery slope!! Let's change the discussion into "who is qualified to have children?" And, who is qualified to decide who is qualified!

[RichEdwards]

So then, has anyone brought up William Shockley?

 

Shockley pointed to race as the determining factor in intelligence. That has nothing to do with my statements. Seventy-five percent of my students were African-American or Hispanic. My experience is that smart kids and good parents come in every color and nationality.

[tallman]

My thesis is that "choosing" not to have children is inherently self-centered, egocentric, and counterproductive in today's world.

How is that not a judgment?

 

Because it is a thesis, an unproven argument.

A judgement is a formal pronouncement of an authoritative opinion, a decision given by a court of law or other tribunal.

Although you did say that I know best, I'm not ready to be considered an authoritative opinion.

 

A judgement, IMO, would be if I added good/bad into the equation.

I did not.

Someone might infer those qualities, but that would be their input.

 

Now, if asked, I would say that having kids is good, that's a judgement.

Not taking care of your kids is bad, a judgement.

This latter judgement would have the support of most Societies.

 

People who are good have bad things happen to them, and bad people sometimes do good things.

Being able to distinguish between the choice, and the chooser, is not a problem.

 

My "thesis" might be proven wrong.

That would not make supporters indherently bad, nor opponents inherently good.

Self-centered, egotistical, has the connotation of contmpt for others, but an attitude is not an action.

Having a bad attitude does not cause/make you a bad person.

It is the action (whatever it may be) that educes the judgement that the act is bad and the actor may be judged.

 

Then we have to split hairs over whether the act was intentional,

were the consequences foreseeable, did the act cause immediate harm, or did the consequences of the act do so.

 

So if one's intent is to remain childless, and one is intoxicated, commits an act that results in a child, does that make the actor a bad person?

Or are they still a good person because intoxication is a defense?

 

Since I don't imbibe anymore, I'll buy you both our beers next time we meet and figure it out.

[nicewife]

My husband, Bill, and I spent the last 20 hours babysitting our 4 & 5 year old niece and nephew. That's why I was so interested in reading this thread from start to finish. So here's my .02...

 

Being a parent has got to be one of the most incredibly difficult, complex, heartwarming, heartwrenching, emotion filled actions any human being can ever take on. In just a few hours, we experienced the joys children bring; laughter, humor, curious questions, (Why do dalmations have polka dots?) creativity during craft time, silliness, and learning that in the eyes of a child, everything old seems new again. We also experienced sibling rivalry, a lot of noise, and little messes everywhere in our usually tidy home. I realized this morning, while trying to make three different breakfasts, do dishes, laundry, and cleaning up the socks, toys, and books everywhere, that being a full time parent is a huge amount of busy work and it is 24/7/365 with no union breaks! After enforcing the "no dessert cause you didn't finish your dinner" rule and longing for my usual Sunday morning coffee-in-bed ritual, I realized that being an auntie is just fine with me. I love all of my nieces and nephews, I am grateful to have children in my life, and I would take on the responsibility of parenting any of them if called upon to do so; but I'm also okay with our choice not to have our own kids. Besides, my mother used to tell me that one day I would have a kid just like myself and then I would understand why her life was so difficult. (I figure I undid the curse by not having any of my own! LOL!)

 

 

Tomorrow I get to split a pot of coffee with Bill and ease into the day. That's pretty cool. So are children.

 

I can tell from reading many of these posts that there were some feathers ruffled by what seemed to be a judgmental statement, and that those who have children would do it again in a heartbeat. I think what really matters is that we're all okay with our personal decisions-whatever caused them to evolve as they did.

 

 

Live and let live.

 

 

 

[Quinn]

So then, has anyone brought up William Shockley?

 

Shockley pointed to race as the determining factor in intelligence. That has nothing to do with my statements. Seventy-five percent of my students were African-American or Hispanic. My experience is that smart kids and good parents come in every color and nationality.

 

My understanding:

I think Shockley's point was that the "low end" of the gene pool was doing all the breeding. The smart people were not reproducing and the dumb ones were. The end result, according to him, was the "smart genes" would be diluted out of existance and the world would be stuck with idiots ala Idiocracy or The Marching Morons. He used Blacks as his proof. Not sure why he didn't just apply it to all races. Also not real sure why he thought IQ was a genetic trait.

 

 

 

 

[Bud]

I still wondering what you think about your parents having had a child. Didn't turn out so bad, did it?

 

In spite of all your protestations, you still come across as trying to have some sort of personal moral superiority.