50 MPG Plus

[Rob_Mayes]

Anyone ready to put down $99.00 to order Smart Car?

Smart Car Web Site

[Lone_RT_rider]

I saw one of these yesterday on the road. The guy inside had purchased it for his business as he had one of those magnetic signs on the side. He was on the cell phone at the time I saw him. The good thing was that the car is so small that he had lots of room to wander in the lane as he talked on the cell.

 

Shawn

[Francois_Dumas]

Nope, driven them... it is fun (for the driver, if not too long, NOT for the passenger if medium-length).... but not for any distances.

 

Also, I am always afraid of rolling over (head over heels so to speak) when hitting the brakes

 

I'll take my RT instead anytime.

[ltljohn]

I would consider one for my commute since it is non highway. I would rather commute on the RT but picking up my son stops that.

[YesMan]

I think a big problem with this vehicle is:

 

City/highway (mpg) 40/45 (EPA 2007); 33/41 (EPA 2008)

 

I would think this car would do better! My civic does 38-40 (actual).

[YesMan]

Oh yeah, and they recommend Premium gas...

[lawnchairboy]

my civic hybrid gets 45mpg on the highway at 65-70mph...

[Les is more]

Unfortunately, 50 MPG Plus doesn't seem to be accurate. I heard a radio piece about these cars. People driving them were getting 35-40 MPG. I still get 35 MPG in my crappy old 1997 GEO Prizm. The car will sell as a novelty and as a convenient city commuter, I'm sure. I just don't see it as the automotive answer to any environmental concerns.

[Francois_Dumas]

Here in Europe it is rather popular as a moving ad carrier..... you hardly ever see one without some www.xxxxxxxxxx.com text on it.

 

They are handy in dense places like Amsterdam, especially for parking, but not very practical otherwise.

 

It is also remarkable that their drivers seem to be pretty aggressive for some reason.... probably they feel they are so small and nimble that they now have to use any gap and opportunity to pass.

 

All of the above still goes a lot easier and better on a motorbike

[VinnyR11]

This months Automobile magazine pretty much panned the car when tested as a city commuter. Agree with others that the downsides of the car don't warrant the MPG actuals that are being reported.

[russell_bynum]

Unfortunately, 50 MPG Plus doesn't seem to be accurate. I heard a radio piece about these cars. People driving them were getting 35-40 MPG. I still get 35 MPG in my crappy old 1997 GEO Prizm. The car will sell as a novelty and as a convenient city commuter, I'm sure. I just don't see it as the automotive answer to any environmental concerns.

 

I agree. My '95 Saturn SC2 got 35-40 on the freeway. Today, people are excited when they get 40 in their fancy, complicated, expensive Hybrid cars. I don't understand why we're not doing better than this. Hell...my 1985 BMW gets 28-30mpg on our commute (on low octane gas...with ME driving it).

[DaveC]

I get a very consistent 48-49 MPG with my VW Golf TDI (diesel). That is combined highway and city mileage.

I am very pleased with my car.

[Jerry_75_Guy]

I don't understand why we're not doing better than this. Hell...my 1985 BMW gets 28-30mpg on our commute (on low octane gas...with ME driving it).

 

Same here.

 

I had a '82 Honda CRX that averaged 52mpg in the city, 60mpg on long hwy trips, and a later model CRX SI (read: sports version of the earlier CRX) always got at least 35mpg, and I had a real lead foot then.

 

This was obviously old technology, so I don't get why they can 'dust off' the blue prints from these cars, repackage them in snazzier skins and offer them again. I'd think the only real tech hurdles would be cleaning up the emissions of the older engine, and improving the crash safety of the body and frame a bit. I know I'm talking out of my hat here, but it's hard for me to imagine that the emissions and safety issues couldn't be addressed while still keeping the power/weight ratio appropriate to maintain high mpg.

[SANTA]

I guess they are not selling the diesel version in the USA.

i just double checked and they don't offer the diesel here anymore either, my mother liked it and wanted one, but i'll stick to my tdi vw's

[George Brown]

Starting to see a few in my area. Doubt if I will every buy one as we have the RT for our 2-passenger vehicle. When I was in high-school ('57-'60), there waw an indepentant import car dealer a mile or so from my home. His inventory varied carrying Engish Fords, 3-cylinder 2-stroke Saabs, P544 Volvos, Renaults, Fiats and BMW Isettas. I used to sit in the Isettas a lot - always thought it was a near perfect urban car. Still would like to own one.

[Ken H.]

Anyone ready to put down $99.00 to order Smart Car?

Smart Car Web Site

I test drove one, I was surprised. Quiet, peppy, roomy for two, road and handled nice. (This was the new 2nd gen. one.) It has a great crash tests rating. OTOH, one would expect better mileage, and it's a bit expensive for what it is.

[steveknapp]

The Milwaukee Smart dealer shares it's lot with a Hummer dealer. It's a funny sight. I'll shoot a pict next time I go by.

 

I agree. My '95 Saturn SC2 got 35-40 on the freeway. Today, people are excited when they get 40 in their fancy, complicated, expensive Hybrid cars. I don't understand why we're not doing better than this. Hell...my 1985 BMW gets 28-30mpg on our commute (on low octane gas...with ME driving it).

 

The NPR discussion I heard about the same issue blames the automakers, you're shocked I know. They claim that the higher performance is driving the drop. Some caller agreed, saying that his new TDI Jetta gets lower MPG and makes more HP (like 10 extra), so therefor we're all power hungry.

 

There might be a wee bit of truth to that. Cars are pretty powerful compared to 20yrs ago. But also cars are heavier, or better put 'have not gotten lighter,' and emissions regs are tighter.

 

At some point someone needs to define "cleaner". In the past the emphasis was on NOX, CO, and hydrocarbons. Smog producing "stuff". Now that car exhaust is squeeky clean in that regard, CO2 is the issue.

 

This has been a minor beef of mine for some time. I know that 35MPG Cafe ratings are all the rage. And I don't mind it. But the Smart hardly exceeds that. What's the answer? Make it smaller? Even less powerful? Does it still get a roof?

 

I'm rather geeked about plug in hybrids, but still think we need to figure out how to make ENERGY without CO2. Can't just replace "evil big oil" with "evil big electric".

[DaveC]

They claim that the higher performance is driving the drop. Some caller agreed, saying that his new TDI Jetta gets lower MPG and makes more HP (like 10 extra), so therefor we're all power hungry.

 

That is true. The 1999 to 2003 TDI engine made 90 HP. The 2004+ engine made 10 HP more, but got lower fuel economy.

My 2003 Golf gets 48 MPG. If I had bought a 2004, it probably would get 44 MPG.

Higher HP results in lower MPG.

[russell_bynum]

They claim that the higher performance is driving the drop. Some caller agreed, saying that his new TDI Jetta gets lower MPG and makes more HP (like 10 extra), so therefor we're all power hungry.

 

That is true. The 1999 to 2003 TDI engine made 90 HP. The 2004+ engine made 10 HP more, but got lower fuel economy.

My 2003 Golf gets 48 MPG. If I had bought a 2004, it probably would get 44 MPG.

Higher HP results in lower MPG.

 

Right. The Honda Minivan makes more HP than Lisa's '98 Mustang GT did.

 

I forget how much power my Saturn had, but it wasn't much. The BMW is VERY underpowered. Personally, I don't really care. I've got enough power to do what I need to do...anything more would just be a waste. The truck falls into that category, actually. There's no way I need even half the power that thing makes the vast majority of the time I'm driving it.

 

I do enjoy the push of acceleration now and then, but honestly, I'd prefer a slow car that gets good mpg and handles well to one that has good 0-60 time but handles like crap and gets bad mpg. It seems that the average American driver wants the opposite.

[Paul Mihalka]

I still think, as I mentioned in another thread looong time ago, that the best would be a car specifically designed for efficiency, like the Prius, but with a small 70 to 80hp turbo diesel. It would be usable size, usable performance, and over 50 mpg.

[steveknapp]

That is true. The 1999 to 2003 TDI engine made 90 HP. The 2004+ engine made 10 HP more, but got lower fuel economy.

My 2003 Golf gets 48 MPG. If I had bought a 2004, it probably would get 44 MPG.

Higher HP results in lower MPG.

 

But it misses the fact that the newer engines need to meet stricter emissions standards. My understanding is the NOX spec changes around those times forced most to use EGR to lower combustion temps. Making the engines less efficient as well.

 

Heck, the differences in the 03 and 04 TDI engines (just taking a quick look) all reek of emissions changes. I doubt the 10 extra HP was the primary motivator for the changes.

 

My 08 spec diesel truck burns ~5% of it's fuel in the exhaust to keep the particulate filter clean. The energy from burning that fuel is all wasted.

 

My point is simply that horsepower is not the only factor in a vehicles MPG. Weight, aerodynamics, and combustion technology all play a role as well.

[steveknapp]

An '08 Honda Odyssey gets 25/17 and the '98 version 24/19.

 

A '98 vintage Mustang (V6/auto) gets 26/17.

 

Same City as the '08 and 1 MPG better on the highway in the ~100bhp less powerful, smaller, mustang.

[Mike]

I think a big problem with this vehicle is:

 

City/highway (mpg) 40/45 (EPA 2007); 33/41 (EPA 2008)

 

I would think this car would do better! My civic does 38-40 (actual).

 

I agree. The mileage, while far better than the average car sold in the U.S., isn't what it should be. I think most people will have trouble justifying the lack of utility when compared against the fact that other "real" cars get similar or better mileage. The really compelling thing about the Smart Car in the European market is that it's easier to find parking spots, since you can park perpindicular to the curb and squeeze in where most cars could not. However, here in the U.S. that's likely to earn you a ticket.

[OoPEZoO]

Hell...my 1985 BMW gets 28-30mpg on our commute (on low octane gas...with ME driving it).

 

Let me guess.......325e or 528e?

 

I have a '86 325es with a little over 220k miles on it that I can just never justify getting rid of. Power everything, leather interior, moonroof, reliably returns 28-31mpg.........AND the A/C still works. Those cars are just damn near bullet proof.

[russell_bynum]

Hell...my 1985 BMW gets 28-30mpg on our commute (on low octane gas...with ME driving it).

 

Let me guess.......325e or 528e?

 

I have a '86 325es with a little over 220k miles on it that I can just never justify getting rid of. Power everything, leather interior, moonroof, reliably returns 28-31mpg.........AND the A/C still works. Those cars are just damn near bullet proof.

 

325e. ~320k. Bought it for $300 with a bad motor (broken timing belt). Bought a replacement motor for $250. (it had a shade over 250K on it, and had sat outside the guy's garage open and exposed to the elements for 2 years. I installed it, drained the goo out of the oil pan, put new oil in it, and it fired right up. 45 minutes later, it passed California's Smog Check.)

 

I run with the power steering pump disconnected. The PS works, but I like the way the car feels without it and I figure I'm buying a bit of mpg in exchange for an arm workout in the parking lot. I've got AC, but I don't know if it works. I never bothered to put the AC belt back on when I put the "new" engine in. All of the components seem to be there, but I've never felt the need for AC, so I just haven't bothered with it.

 

My interior is trashed, but I did find a SWEET set of leather BMW Sport seats on eBay, so now I'm rolling in style.

 

The previous owner did a series of terrible things to the suspension (cut the front springs. Wrong bushings. etc) but last week I placed an order with TMS to get all new springs/struts/shocks/swaybars and associated mounting hardware.

 

Anyway...when I bought the car, I figured if I got a year's use out of it and then it blew up, I'd just leave it on the side of the road and call it done. That was 3 years ago, commuting 120 miles a day. I've probably got $2000ish in it including all of the maintenance/repairs/replacement motor/tires...basically everything except gas. That's about to just about double with the new suspsension stuff, but so far it's been a tremendously good purchase.

 

It's underpowered and not very fast, but even with the horrible suspension mods, it handles well and is fun to drive. It aced the smog check again last year, and I get 31mpg if I'm paying attention and 28 if I'm driving like a complete raving maniac.

[steveknapp]

It aced the smog check again last year

 

Which for an '85 vehicle really isn't that tough.

[russell_bynum]

Which for an '85 vehicle really isn't that tough.

 

Right...but it means it's still performing within its original design spec 23 years and 320,000 miles later.

[mrduck]

It aced the smog check again last year

 

Which for an '85 vehicle really isn't that tough.

 

 

 

Seems thet changed the rules on us out here- anything older than 95 now gets the gas tank pressurized to check evap-systems! Of corse most fail this so mo' money for our nanny state

 

 

 

(Sorry, was I ranting?)

[steveknapp]

Which for an '85 vehicle really isn't that tough.

 

Right...but it means it's still performing within its original design spec 23 years and 320,000 miles later.

 

Which isn't saying much.

 

Russell, I know where you stand on this stuff, so not saying that I care much.

 

But CARB pushed hard to make car exhaust as close to squeaky clean as possible. CO2 being "OK" at the time. There were all the fights to prevent classic cars from being crushed or outlawed... The evil seemed to be smog and the pollutants that created it.

 

So the money was spent, the R&D was done, new cars cost a bit more than they used to because of it. They are now squeeky clean, so much so that inert bottled gas must be used to dilute the exhaust in the dyno as ambient air is dirty enough to fail the test...

 

And what's the result? If the NPR folks are to be believed all this modern "Stuff" is just there to increase bhp and totally ignores CO2. Those evil bastards the auto companies.

 

I find some irony in the idea of going back to "smoggier" cars to save on CO2.

[OoPEZoO]

I bought my '86 at a police auction about 6 years ago. I got it as more of a joke than anything else. I wanted a beater car and was planning to bid on a Honda CRX they had there. Then I saw this ugly yellow spray bombed Bimmer that had a crappy body kit installed with sheet metal screws. It was instant love at first sight . I bought it and have been beating the hell out of it ever since. I've had about every suspension upgrade known to man on it at some point. Right now it is back to stock because I also have a 120 mile commute and the racing suspension was a real kidney buster. I have since bought and sold 4 other E30's, but can never bring myself to part with the 325es. I also have a '88 325is that will eventualy end up with the racing suspension on it, and a motor swap with a M50 out of a E36 325i that I am currently rebuilding.

 

here is me hauling *ss around the infield up at Pocono during a performance driving school. I told you it was ugly.

 

 

time for a close up

 

and, the project car

[russell_bynum]

I told you it was ugly.

 

It's cherry compared to mine.