Support for nationalized nutrition.

[steve.foote]

Since there is an overwhelming consensus that we need nationalized healthcare, I was wondering how much support there is for nationalized nutrition. I would assume that these two naturally go hand-in-hand.

 

I was thinking along the lines of compulsory diets designed for each individual, based upon their current health and weight, by trained government nutritionists. This program will produce the healthiest citizens possible, thereby reducing the burden on the government healthcare system.

 

In addition to the obvious cost savings, obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure and a host of other threats to good health would be eliminated. The only negative I can see is the increased cost for law enforcement to ensure compliance.

 

A society can only endure if its members are healthy, and I think the benefits would certainly outweigh the loss of individual choice. Your thoughts?

[Boffin]

Hyperbole undermines arguments.

 

Andy

[tallman]

But soy based hyperbole tastes so good.

 

I'm in favor of a subsidized, calorie specific food plan, based on your physical condition, state of health, genetic predisposition, and ability to pay.

Monthly check ups would dictate changes based on your specific improvement in general level of fitness and overall good health indicators.

The better you do, the more tax incentive you get. The worse you do, the more tax penalty you incur.

This would be based on a sliding scale with the worst profligates forfeiting their right to subsidized health care and incurring substantial, regressive, tax penalties.

Those who show substantial regression in fitness level and general health indicators would be allowed to participate in a fitness improvement plan directed by local authorities that would provide oportunities for rigorous outdoor activities, strenous workouts, targeted meal programs, and have the pleasure of knowing their hard work will be of benefit not just to them, but to the entire community.

Everyone benefits when roadside litter and trash is picked up. Eveyone benefits when schools, parks, public facilities are cleaned, refurbished.

Steve, it is a win, win, win, for everyone.

[MattS]

A society can only endure if its members are healthy, and I think the benefits would certainly outweigh the loss of individual choice. Your thoughts?

I don't know, Steve. I'm not big on big-gov't intervention, but I do verbally abuse fat people every chance I get; they're disgusting, undisciplined and greedy. Not that there's anything wrong with those qualities, but they're nicer when concealed.

[SageRider]

...and the national food of choice will be...............

The Twinkie!!!

[smiller]

Hyperbole undermines arguments.

Indeed, as does repetition.

[Whip]

Hyperbole undermines arguments.

 

Andy

 

Party pooper....

 

[Joel]

SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!

[Lawman]

Whip,

Glad to see you survived the earthquake

 

Has Jose designed the "I survived the San Antonio Earthquake " t-shirts yet?

[Matts_12GS]

I'm in favor of a subsidized...

 

Wow, and now we'd have a proven genetic link to higher taxation that way! Brilliant!

 

Tim, I'd ensure that you include hats and sunscreen for those in the clean up programs as melanoma can be nasty stuff.

 

" It puts the lotion on it's skin...."

 

 

Hi Steve, one too many doughnuts Saturday afternoon?

[leikam]

I don't know if that's a good idea Steve. Shouldn't we nationalize food production and distribution before we legislate consumption? I mean, on the consumer end it's hardly fair to say that you can look but not touch. And on the business end, it's hardly fair to McDonald's to say that they sell what they like but nobody can buy what they're selling. Better to remove temptation altogether. Maybe we need a subsidy for businesses like them to compensate for the lost profits? It could come out of the funds you were going to put towards law enforcement!

 

And at the same time, we certainly need a compulsory national fitness plan -- exercise is the other half of health, right. Schwartzenegger could lead it. And of course we'd want to reduce gene-related illnesses and genetic conditions that would burden our healthcare system so we should work out a genetic fitness plan along the lines of the bodily fitness plan; "keeping the body of the nation strong". Don't worry about unfortunate genetic pairings... it will be easy to put birth control in the food supply that we already control.

[Les is more]

Did you retire or something??

[Lawman]

Did you retire or something??

 

Les,

If I'm offended by that question will you take it back?

[Kathy R]

I would be make a fortune on the black market with my chocolate chip cookies. Bring it on.

[90%angel]

You know, Steve? I'd laugh at this one, if I didn't think it would be a serious reality if the government ran the healthcare system.

 

Heck, they're already at it, banning trans fats in restaurants in some cities, removing vending machines from schools, and contemplating a "snack tax".

 

The private systems are already toying with getting people healthier so they cost less...many companies are making their "unhealthy" workers (overweight, smokers, etc.) pay more for health insurance since they cost the company more; some companies offer discounts or free memberships to gyms to help employees get weight off; some offer smoking cessation programs for free; etc.

 

I can't imagine the government wouldn't have to do something when faced with having to pay for everyone's health care. A healthy population is a cheaper population!

[Joel]

I would make a fortune on the black market with my chocolate chip cookies. Bring it on.

 

When cookies are outlawed, only outlaws will have cookies. I've got a great neighbor whose picture could end up in the post office, too.

[russell_bynum]

I would be make a fortune on the black market with my chocolate chip cookies. Bring it on.

 

Now that's funny.

[randys]

they can have my pork when they pry it from my bbq soaked fingers

[tallman]

I would be make a fortune on the black market with my chocolate chip cookies. Bring it on.

 

Have you seen this monster?

 

 

 

Black market profiteering?

We're not down with that.

[BULLman]

they can have my pork when they pry it from my bbq soaked fingers

Amen

[Trajan]

We've had this in the nations schools for decades. It's called the National School Lunch Program (sic) and is paid for by the Department of Defense.

 

1 out of 4 men drafted or volunteering for military service in WW2 had been so malnourished during The Depression that they were unfit for military service.

 

Take the soda and vending machines out of school and have a fitness program (it was called recess back when I went to school) and the fat kid problem will go away.

 

IMO

[Bud]

...and the national food of choice will be...............

The Twinkie!!!

 

You almost had it right. It is the deep fried Twinkie.

[Kitsap]

Alcohol and caffiene would be under attack, no thanks. I like them both, sometimes even together.

[notacop]

Or maybe that is poopy parter!

Eat your greens, eat pond scum!

[notacop]

I beleive we'd all be heathier if we used Brusses Spouts as suppositories. Gawd knows that don't tastes all that good! 'spose to be good for you though!

[subvet]

Since there is an overwhelming consensus that we need nationalized healthcare, I was wondering how much support there is for nationalized nutrition. I would assume that these two naturally go hand-in-hand.

 

I was thinking along the lines of compulsory diets designed for each individual, based upon their current health and weight, by trained government nutritionists. This program will produce the healthiest citizens possible, thereby reducing the burden on the government healthcare system.

 

In addition to the obvious cost savings, obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure and a host of other threats to good health would be eliminated. The only negative I can see is the increased cost for law enforcement to ensure compliance.

 

A society can only endure if its members are healthy, and I think the benefits would certainly outweigh the loss of individual choice. Your thoughts?

 

This works, I've seen it work.

 

In the military, those determined "too short for their weight" were required to weigh-in once a week to track dietary progress.

Meal makeup and portion size was controlled and served to those in the program. It was good in controlled situations (out to sea) but once back on dry land, many went back to their old eating habits.

 

It's important to combine nutrition with education in proper/appropriate eating habits. What's bad/good need to be taught from very early age. Children have to understand that being fat/unfit is wrong and that those in society that fit that profile (no pun intended..really) are likely suffering from mental disorder or are on the fringes of a mainstream society. Anyone knows law enfocement is much more expensive and less effective than education and counseling.

 

Tempatation needs to be taken from those with low will power. Govt. could determine a junk food index and ban all items in that category from vending machine. Body mass index devices can be installed in fast food restaurants. Step on it to place your order. If you exceed body mass limits, your choices in menu are limited, etc...)

 

Combine this with Green movement and we are on the right track to a healthy, non-polluting nation, independent of foreign oil.

Businesses can be mandated to require a % of their employees telecommuting. Make business repsonsible for administering govt. mandates. ie: Web cams in homes of telecommuters would allow business to administer daily virtual exercize regimens. We'd be way ahead of Japan on this where they still adminster company-sponsored exercize in the office only. Make exercize a job requirement. (ie: your VPN would not connect if your heart rate was not determined to be at least > X beats per min for X amount of time each day)

Urban dwellers who work within govt. prescribed radius from work would be offered automobile buy-back incentives, or trade-out for bicycles.

Those who cannot manage bicycle commuting would be given these to commute to work.

 

Our new national slogan would be "You can do it!"

 

[drzep]

Take the soda and vending machines out of school and have a fitness program...and the fat kid problem will go away.

Life would be boring if things were that simple.

[SageRider]

Take the soda and vending machines out of school and have a fitness program...and the fat kid problem will go away.

Life would be boring if things were that simple.

Seem to me the implication of the first statement is that there would be a lot of truant fat kids!

[steve.foote]

Hyperbole undermines arguments.

 

Actually, Andy, hyperbole helps to explore the boundaries of a topic. For example, when someone says, "We need to spend more on X," I want to know how much more. This is often greeted with silence, so using hyperbole to explore the limits of the arguement, I'll throw out a rediculous number and watch as that number is whittled down to what the OP actually had in mind (which is usually a lot more than they wanted to admit to while promoting X).

[steve.foote]

SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!

 

Joel, there are a lot of things comparable to that movie and our current situation. We all like to think that it can't/won't happen here, but history disagrees.

[steve.foote]

Did you retire or something??

 

Nope, still working the day job. Actually, as I type now, I'm between planning VLAN's on one job and writing a proposal for replacing the main server at another site.

 

Hey, you do whatcha can.

[steve.foote]

I don't know if that's a good idea Steve. Shouldn't we nationalize food production and distribution before we legislate consumption? I mean, on the consumer end it's hardly fair to say that you can look but not touch. And on the business end, it's hardly fair to McDonald's to say that they sell what they like but nobody can buy what they're selling. Better to remove temptation altogether. Maybe we need a subsidy for businesses like them to compensate for the lost profits? It could come out of the funds you were going to put towards law enforcement!

 

And at the same time, we certainly need a compulsory national fitness plan -- exercise is the other half of health, right. Schwartzenegger could lead it. And of course we'd want to reduce gene-related illnesses and genetic conditions that would burden our healthcare system so we should work out a genetic fitness plan along the lines of the bodily fitness plan; "keeping the body of the nation strong". Don't worry about unfortunate genetic pairings... it will be easy to put birth control in the food supply that we already control.

 

Michael, you read me like a book. We'll probably have a little more fun with some of these ideas before the day is done.

[steve.foote]

I would be make a fortune on the black market with my chocolate chip cookies. Bring it on.

 

This may be the best quote of the thread. Excessive regulation encourages otherwise law-abiding citizens to operate outside of the law. As our government continues to encroach on our freedom to choice, we can expect more of our citizens to turn to the dark side. This is a good example of how lifes experiences can change ones views of right and wrong.

[steve.foote]

Dave, I saw the same thing when I was in the Army. Compulsory physical fitness was a given, but if you tipped the scales, you were put on a supervised diet with harsh consequenses if you violated it. Now, military members consent to just about everything when they enlist, but civilians will be consenting to things they never imagined if they agree to allow the government to take over health insurance.

[subvet]

Dave, I saw the same thing when I was in the Army.  Compulsory physical fitness was a given, but if you tipped the scales, you were put on a supervised diet with harsh consequenses if you violated it.  

 

 

no exceptions either.  Our supply officer (a LT.JG) was one of the fittest guys on board. Running back for his football team in college, etc....solid muscle, but guess what?  he was too short for his weight based on the charts. So...he had to get with the program.

[steve.foote]

Dave, I saw the same thing when I was in the Army.  Compulsory physical fitness was a given, but if you tipped the scales, you were put on a supervised diet with harsh consequenses if you violated it.  

 

 

no exceptions either.  Our supply officer (a LT.JG) was one of the fittest guys on board. Running back for his football team in college, etc....solid muscle, but guess what?  he was too short for his weight based on the charts. So...he had to get with the program.

 

Hey, if that's what the chart says, then it must be right. I'm sure he draws some personal satisfaction knowing that the price he's paying is for the greater good.

[Matts_12GS]

no exceptions either...

 

Had a shop supervisor in the way back who was a pro bodybuilder. He had to go all the way up the chain because he was 50'ish pounds of muscle over his ratio. Then, that 3% body fat measurement. No wonder he left the Navy, too many hassles.

[Boffin]

Dave, I saw the same thing when I was in the Army. Compulsory physical fitness was a given, but if you tipped the scales, you were put on a supervised diet with harsh consequenses if you violated it. Now, military members consent to just about everything when they enlist, but civilians will be consenting to things they never imagined if they agree to allow the government to take over health insurance.

 

That is not the UK experience. What makes you think that it would be the case in the USA?

 

Andy

[steve.foote]

That is not the UK experience. What makes you think that it would be the case in the USA?

 

Andy

 

Because it has been the case here. For example, we have a scholarship program here in Georgia payed for by the generous folks who play the state sanctioned lottery. But, the scholarship is only awarded to students who maintain a B or better average.

 

Just curious but would the UK plan cover a drunk, who drinks and drugs his way through several liver transplants, without any expectation of modifying his behavior? In otherwords, does it provide unlimited treatment to those who habitually abuse themselves?

[Boffin]

That is not the UK experience. What makes you think that it would be the case in the USA?

 

Andy

 

Because it has been the case here. For example, we have a scholarship program here in Georgia payed for by the generous folks who play the state sanctioned lottery. But, the scholarship is only awarded to students who maintain a B or better average.

 

Just curious but would the UK plan cover a drunk, who drinks and drugs his way through several liver transplants, without any expectation of modifying his behavior? In otherwords, does it provide unlimited treatment to those who habitually abuse themselves?

 

Yes it does, though there are those who feel that it should only offer one chance of redemption. A recent and well known instance of this was the soccer legend George Best.

 

Andy

[steve.foote]

Interesting.

 

I'm sure you have gathered from the gazillion posts you must have had to read so far that it is a significant point of disagreement here in the US.

 

Maybe the UK is more diciplined about taking only what is needed for the most part. I would be curious though, if the government were to put a big box of money on a street corner with a sign which read, "Take only what you need," how long do you think it would take to empty it?

[Trajan]

Take the soda and vending machines out of school and have a fitness program...and the fat kid problem will go away.

Life would be boring if things were that simple.

Seem to me the implication of the first statement is that there would be a lot of truant fat kids!

 

 

In my family it was, and is, "that simple". My parents took responsibility for the four of us and we turned out OK despite growing up in the '60s & '70s - definitely not boring when you are 8 years old and watching your city burn during riots. My parents are still recovering. This week are recovering at the beach.

 

In school, we had recess and 'Phys Ed', something that has been removed from many curricula because "it's too hard" and "it's unfair to some" and "someone might get hurt". Those idiots cans kiss my ass. This is how they paid for computers in schools, which, IMHO, is a mistake before 9th grade, and does little to improve the quality of education. My wife is a teacher so I have had this argument before.

 

My grandchildren are being home-schooled, without computers, and they are doing fine - a lot happier at home than in the indoctrination and gang recruiting center they were attending before. The 15-year-old is studying calculus and says "It's fun." They do have computers at home, but, it's not a crutch that many educators use.

 

Truant kids should result in charges against the parents, but then we would have fix the tax situation and ... now I have a headache.

[RichEdwards]

Steve,

Following the logic of your example (why have health care for everyone since some will abuse it) I offer:

1) Close all the public libraries. There will always be those who steal rather than borrow the books.

2) Cancel all the "911" hotlines. There are many who make crank calls to those services.

3) Padlock all those public restrooms. That will stop the slobs who pee on the floor.

Or maybe we should look at the benefits these services offer to the great majority of citizens?

[90%angel]

My parents took responsibility for the four of us and we turned out OK

 

Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! Unfortunately, Personal/Parental responsibility is being replaced by people who want the government to tell them what to do all the time. It's so much easier than having to think for oneself.

[steve.foote]

Steve,

Following the logic of your example (why have health care for everyone since some will abuse it) I offer:

1) Close all the public libraries. There will always be those who steal rather than borrow the books.

2) Cancel all the "911" hotlines. There are many who make crank calls to those services.

3) Padlock all those public restrooms. That will stop the slobs who pee on the floor.

Or maybe we should look at the benefits these services offer to the great majority of citizens?

 

Sooooo, in other words, are you saying we should tolerate some failure in a system as long as it benefits the majority of the population?

[Matts_12GS]

Sooooo, in other words, are you saying we should tolerate some failure in a system as long as it benefits the majority of the population?

 

Planned obsolecence?

 

Man, I really need that :biting my tongue: icon.....

[tallman]

Steve,

Following the logic of your example (why have health care for everyone since some will abuse it) I offer:

1) Close all the public libraries. There will always be those who steal rather than borrow the books.

2) Cancel all the "911" hotlines. There are many who make crank calls to those services.

3) Padlock all those public restrooms. That will stop the slobs who pee on the floor.

Or maybe we should look at the benefits these services offer to the great majority of citizens?

 

I, for one, am tired of those miscreants who smuggle choclate chip cookies into the library, make too much nosie eating them, and then go into the public restrooms and throw up all over their purloined tomes.

[chrisolson]

Steve,

Following the logic of your example (why have health care for everyone since some will abuse it) I offer:

1) Close all the public libraries. There will always be those who steal rather than borrow the books.

2) Cancel all the "911" hotlines. There are many who make crank calls to those services.

3) Padlock all those public restrooms. That will stop the slobs who pee on the floor.

Or maybe we should look at the benefits these services offer to the great majority of citizens?

 

Sooooo, in other words, are you saying we should tolerate some failure in a system as long as it benefits the majority of the population?

Enron and Bear Stearns seem to go perfectly with that statement and free market capitalism ...

[RichEdwards]

Sooooo, in other words, are you saying we should tolerate some failure in a system as long as it benefits the majority of the population?

 

Absolutely. There is no system (in government or business) that does not have an occasional failure. I think that the founders of this country believed that any "system" should benefit the majority, not an elite minority.

[tallman]

Ooooh,

Do I detect a Riddle of the Sphinx slippery slope ahead?

How wouold these parameters be applied to, Capital Punishment?

An occasional failure is OK?

How about electing the President?

Popular vote, electoral vote, judicial fiat?

Medical malpractice?

Representation by inadequate attorney?

In some case there is an avenue to pursue to try to remedy the failure.

That is one of the better aspects of our Society.