Josh Hayes aka '08 Daytona 200 Winner has been Disqualified by the AMA!

[JerryMather]

If this holds up ......... those Beemers just got a little closer to the top spot and Larry Pegram with his new Ducati 848 has been moved up on to the podium into third place.

 

Honda's Disqualification

 

It seems to me, that if the crank was in fact lighten, Josh won't have a leg to stand on during his appeal. This isn't a situation that anyone wants to be in.

[harleyjohn45]

there were 4 factory honda's in the race, i bet all four have the same crankshaft work done.

[russell_bynum]

there were 4 factory honda's in the race, i bet all four have the same crankshaft work done.

 

Hayes and Zemke were not on factory bikes. (but you're probably right.)

[harleyjohn45]

My mistake, it would be interesting to know if they were all modified. I was there and the Hondas were all fast. I was really rooting for the BMW's and Ducati's, but honestly they can't keep up. They finished well because of attrition, thats the beauty of Daytona, you have to have a bike that can finish 200 miles. The Ducati only made 1 pit stop, that saved him 15 or 20 seconds.

[JerryMather]

The Ducati only made 1 pit stop, that saved him 15 or 20 seconds.

That's pretty interesting, I didn't realize that.

[smkymtntaco]

My mistake, it would be interesting to know if they were all modified. I was there and the Hondas were all fast. I was really rooting for the BMW's and Ducati's, but honestly they can't keep up. They finished well because of attrition, thats the beauty of Daytona, you have to have a bike that can finish 200 miles. The Ducati only made 1 pit stop, that saved him 15 or 20 seconds.

 

I knew he lasted at least 10 laps longer than the Hondas before he pitted the first time, but I think he came in about lap 62 and topped up with gas-no tires???

 

Correct me if I'm wrong...

[harleyjohn45]

i watched him every lap after lap 46, and i never saw him pit. about lap 46 is where the ducati went from 7th to 4th.

he was still over 3 miles behind the leader, but the BMW's that finished 5th and 6th were over 6 miles back. all i can say is the ducati gets great gas milage.

[Bill_Walker]

i watched him every lap after lap 46, and i never saw him pit. about lap 46 is where the ducati went from 7th to 4th.

he was still over 3 miles behind the leader, but the BMW's that finished 5th and 6th were over 6 miles back. all i can say is the ducati gets great gas milage.

 

Assuming you're talking Pegram, in the post-race interview on Speed he said he tried to signal his team to do only one stop, but they brought him in anyway, and in retrospect he didn't think he would've made it to the finish if he hadn't stopped.

[finallyabeemer]

Frankly, I am (yet again) blown away by the audacity of Honda. Do they really think they have THAT much control over the AMA to get them to ignore the rules for them? Then again, with as long as it took for Miguel to finally get black flagged, maybe they do...

Very sad situation for Josh. He is a good rider and deserves better. And sad for Pegram... he really earned and deserved to celebrate on the podium!

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Erion basically running pure factory racers? Just a way for Honda to get around the rules and have four factory entries?

 

Regardless, it was very satisfying to see the gross expenditures FAIL! And the showing by the BMW's? Spectacular! I bet the total expenditures by all the BMW entries was still 1/100 what Honda spent.

[smkymtntaco]

i watched him every lap after lap 46, and i never saw him pit. about lap 46 is where the ducati went from 7th to 4th.

he was still over 3 miles behind the leader, but the BMW's that finished 5th and 6th were over 6 miles back. all i can say is the ducati gets great gas milage.

 

Assuming you're talking Pegram, in the post-race interview on Speed he said he tried to signal his team to do only one stop, but they brought him in anyway, and in retrospect he didn't think he would've made it to the finish if he hadn't stopped.

 

Thanks, Bill! Sometimes I doubt my memory! I say Congratulations to the Leo Da Vinci Team! They were by far the most enthusiastic pit-team. They cheered every time Pegram came across the finish line!

[smkymtntaco]

Frankly, I am (yet again) blown away by the audacity of Honda. Do they really think they have THAT much control over the AMA to get them to ignore the rules for them? Then again, with as long as it took for Miguel to finally get black flagged, maybe they do...

Very sad situation for Josh. He is a good rider and deserves better. And sad for Pegram... he really earned and deserved to celebrate on the podium!

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Erion basically running pure factory racers? Just a way for Honda to get around the rules and have four factory entries?

 

Regardless, it was very satisfying to see the gross expenditures FAIL! And the showing by the BMW's? Spectacular! I bet the total expenditures by all the BMW entries was still 1/100 what Honda spent.

 

Finallybeemer,

 

Very well said. I agree. With the best team/equipment money can buy....why do they think they have to cheat to make a statement??? I think their statement was made. "We're rich, and we'll cheat just to rub it in your face." Signed, the Corporation that Sponsored this party.

[russell_bynum]

Very well said. I agree. With the best team/equipment money can buy....why do they think they have to cheat to make a statement??? I think their statement was made. "We're rich, and we'll cheat just to rub it in your face." Signed, the Corporation that Sponsored this party.

 

That doesn't make any ****ing sense.

 

If you finish in the top three, your bike is going to be dismantled and inspected.

 

Intentionally cheating doesn't make any sense at all because if it works, you will be caught.

 

My guess is they were trying to bend the rules as much as possible without actually breaking them. (Like Suzuki used to do with traction control.) That's pretty much the name of the game for those guys.

[mbelectric]

Russell, I'm gonna throw this out there, you can jump on me all you want.

 

If this is where the AMA is heading, count me out.

What happened to the biggest , baddest bikes running in the showcase event?

The 200 now is a mixed mash mess. Some 600's, some 850's, some 1000's,

some 1200"s??

What we got now is Nascar on 2 wheels kids..They've got it all sorted out. No changes will be made unless the rules committee decides. Even if a crank gets ground just a little different. You got your riders rearset in the wrong position because he/she is bigger? You're disqualified. Look, nobody's bitchin' cause BMW got hosed on the first lap. Cold tires because of a delay in start, the big bikes suffered..Riders went down..Nothing said about that.

 

I'll have to think about watching AMA events in the future. We'll see how they handle this one..

 

The show that MotoGP and WSBK brings is far better.

 

This not to take away BMW'S accomplishment. A great showing since last winning ,in what 30 years?

[russell_bynum]

Russell, I'm gonna throw this out there, you can jump on me all you want.

 

If this is where the AMA is heading, count me out.

What happened to the biggest , baddest bikes running in the showcase event?

The 200 now is a mixed mash mess. Some 600's, some 850's, some 1000's,

some 1200"s??

 

 

I'll have to think about watching AMA events in the future. We'll see how they handle this one..

 

The show that MotoGP and WSBK brings is far better.

 

This not to take away BMW'S accomplishment. A great showing since last winning ,in what 30 years?

 

I've never liked the 200, but I liked it better when it was the superbikes. And I don't like creating special rules to allow manufacturer's to compete on equipment that shouldn't be competitive, but I do understand why AMA (and WSBK) does that and I think it's a worthy goal.

 

What we got now is Nascar on 2 wheels kids..They've got it all sorted out. No changes will be made unless the rules committee decides. Even if a crank gets ground just a little different. You got your riders rearset in the wrong position because he/she is bigger? You're disqualified.

 

The point of production-class racing is that the bikes are based on production equipment. Some modifications are allowed, some are not. I've got no problem with that, but it does open you up to gray areas where interpretation is key. For example, the old rule said you couldn't have traction control that used wheel speed sensors. It was blatantly obvious that Suzuki was running traction control on their bikes. Since they didn't have wheel speed sensors, the belief was they were measuring the speed of the crankshaft and extrapolating that into wheelspeed for use by the traction control system. That was deemed legal.

 

Look, nobody's bitchin' cause BMW got hosed on the first lap. Cold tires because of a delay in start, the big bikes suffered..Riders went down..Nothing said about that.

 

Bah. This is where I go back to "600's should be 600's, and 1000's should be 1000's".

 

The rules were changed to allow 1200cc bikes to compete in a 600cc race. Nobody forced BMW to make a heavy bike. They engineered a heavy bike, so they have to deal with a heavy bike. If that means they're more susceptible to crashing on cold tires, that's their problem.

 

I'll have to think about watching AMA events in the future. We'll see how they handle this one..

 

Yep. I will note, though, that things are likely about to change for the AMA roadracing program with new owners coming in.

 

The show that MotoGP and WSBK brings is far better.

 

World superbike has similar rules about what can and can't be changed and also the same screwy rules which are allowing the 1098 Ducati to run against 1,000cc inline-fours.

 

MotoGP is much less restrictive. Fuel limit, weight limit, displacement limit, and I think that's about it.

[ghaverkamp]

What we got now is Nascar on 2 wheels kids..They've got it all sorted out. No changes will be made unless the rules committee decides.

 

. . .

I'll have to think about watching AMA events in the future. We'll see how they handle this one..

 

Heh.

[roadscholar]

The word we're hearing around here is that next year Superbikes will once again assume their rightful place on the grid for the Daytona 200.

 

I think DMG's procurement of AMA pro racing is the best possible scenario, they have nearly unlimited resources and a great deal of combined talent and experience in this area.

 

A few things about Jim France. He is a serious motorcyclist, on many occasions he rides to Nascar races instead of taking the company jet, including the west coast races. He had an older R1100S with 6-figure mileage on it but now rides a K12S.

 

He is a friend of BMW and vice versa. He once designed and custom ordered a K1200RS in Mandarin/Anthracite with checkerboard graphics and BMW liked it enough to make it an available color in subsequent years.

 

But mainly he is soft-spoken, understated, and well-educated, not the stereotype you might think of given his position in the ranks of Nascar, then again maybe it is. He seems to enjoy being a regular guy and hanging out with knowledgeable motorcyclists. Heck, I saw him briefly at a very informal (Pizza) Moto Guzzi dinner last Mon. nite and most of the people there didn't know who he was, and those that did, didn't care.

 

Roger Edmondson, I think his job before moving to Daytona 7 or 8 years ago and starting the Daytona Prototype sports car series, was running AMA roadracing.

 

At the very least, these two know more about the intricacies of race promoting than anyone else out there and the icing on the cake is they're good guys, a win win.

[russell_bynum]

More info from Soup...

 

 

"As reported here before Daytona, the AMA hired a new technical inspection person for 2008. Midwest tuner and race team owner Jim Rashid took over the position. Daytona was his first race as acting tech inspector.

 

Rashid is quite competent technically. However, when he ran his own team, Rashid was known to be highly critical of factory race bikes racing in support classes."

 

Full story Here

 

 

That makes it sound even more like we're not dealing with a blatant violation of the rules, but rather a case where the engine builder was trying to get the absolute most out of the rules and this new tech inspector has a more stringent interpretation of the rules than the last one.

 

Just because it passed tech last year doesn't mean it is OK, but this definitely gives us an idea that there may be more to this than just "mean, evil, rich Honda decided to cheat just because they could."

 

Any way you slice it, this is bad press for AMA roadracing, and it really sucks for Josh. That guy's been out there busting his ass year after year and bringing home the results. He deserves better than all of this.

[Misti]

There is some more information up on Superbike Planet about the Hayes DQ story: http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Mar/080311z.htm

 

Interesting read and really too bad for Josh. He has to be one of the coolest guys racing in the AMA. Humble, patient, nice, friendly....I'm interested to see what becomes of this story.

 

Misti

[russell_bynum]

There is some more information up on Superbike Planet about the Hayes DQ story: http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2008/Mar/080311z.htm

 

Interesting read and really too bad for Josh. He has to be one of the coolest guys racing in the AMA. Humble, patient, nice, friendly....I'm interested to see what becomes of this story.

 

Misti

 

You may be fast on track, but I beat you to this one. (see the link in my post above)

 

But Soup just posted a new article on this from Don Emde. article here

 

Very sad.

 

I agree, Josh is good people. He's great with the fans, and from the interviews I've heard, he's just an all-around nice guy.

[Deadboy]

http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=31786