This makes me angry.

[Kraynak]

http://wsbradio.com/news/022708carmurder.html

 

Road Rage Leads to Murder

(WSB Radio) Authorities in Oconee County have charged a Bogart man with killing a Barrow County man who had been involved in an automobile accident with the suspect's teenage daughters.

 

45-year-old Richard Harold Gear is accused of shooting 21-year-old Bryan Joseph Mough after his daughters, ages 17 and 19, called him on their cellphone to say the Winder man was following them from the scene of the mishap between their car and his motorcycle.

 

Oconee County Sheriff Scott Berry tells WSB's Jennifer Griffies the suspect was waiting at the end of his driveway with a pistol when the victim drove by. After he turned around and passed the house a second time, Gear fired three shots from a pistol, striking Mough once in the back.

 

Mough was pronounced dead a short time later at Athens Regional Medical Center.

 

Murder charges were filed against Gear, even though he claimed the shooting was self defense. Berry says Gear was arrested after investigators determined Mough was shot in the back and never set foot on the suspect's property.

 

Gear is being held without bond in the Oconee County jail in Watkinsville.

 

The last murder in Oconee County occurred in 2002.

[Kraynak]

http://onlineathens.com/stories/0226...shooting.shtml

[gottabmw]

Riders Discuss Other Topics is a good place for this post. Absolutely no relevance to motorcycling. I wonder if you'd posted this if the victim was driving a car or if your outrage would be as great.

[Kraynak]

 

(Taken from the BSB fourm)

 

Ladies and Gentlemen,

FenixSolen's (Bryan) funeral will be this Saturday (3/1) at Noon.

The address is:

Carter Funeral Home

265 Hwy 211

Winder, GA 30680

770-867-1361

 

I suggest as many of us as possible show our support of this young man. In that regard, I ask the honor of your presence to accompany me in a ride to the funeral home. I would like to meet anyone willing at the BP 85 and Plesant Hill at 1045am and will be leaving at 11:15 am SHARP to go to Winder.

 

I will be leaving Cumming at 10:15am. Anyone wanting to join me to ride form Cumming, please meet me at the BP Gas Station at 400 and Exit 12 (12B if travelling north on 400).

 

I will be riding regardless of the weather. I understand that there was a thread started on GSB to do just this but for those of us who are not members there, I thought I would post here.

 

Many of us did not know this young man other than here on the forum. However, I beg of you, if you have the time, please join me to show our support. If nothing else, show your distain for what was done to him by your presence.

 

Who among you will join me?

 

--Mike

 

If anyone wants to go I will be riding out of Cumming in the morning.

[Ken H.]

http://onlineathens.com/stories/0226...shooting.shtml

Linky no worky, try this one - http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/022808/news_2008022800152.shtml

 

Apparently this guy has a history of drawing on people.

[tallman]

Not his first time, apparently.

http://onlineathens.com/stories/022808/news_2008022800152.shtml

[Kraynak]

Riders Discuss Other Topics is a good place for this post. Absolutely no relevance to motorcycling. I wonder if you'd posted this if the victim was driving a car or if your outrage would be as great.

 

Any 21 year old that gets gunned down for no reason Iwould feel angry over. Why don't you show some more respect. He was a member of another board that I belong to.

Absolutely no relevance to motorcycling

Inappropriate content edited out by administrator. I understand your feelings, but let's keep the language in check. Thanks.

[Ken H.]

"Gear's daughters told investigators they made obscene gestures when Mough cut them off, and that Mough intentionally ran into their car after they crossed the Oconee County line."

 

Uh, yeah, sure, OK whatever you say girls.

 

(Mough was the motorcyclist.)

[Ken H.]

I wonder <snip> if your outrage would be as great.

Yes it would.

[motoguy128]

"Gear's daughters told investigators they made obscene gestures when Mough cut them off, and that Mough intentionally ran into their car after they crossed the Oconee County line."

 

Uh, yeah, sure, OK whatever you say girls.

 

(Mough was the motorcyclist.)

 

He intentionally ran a motorcycle into the side of a car? Umm...sure. He probably cut them off because they weren't paying attention talking on their cell phones and probably cut him off earlier.

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

I'm not gonna speculate on the event leading to the final resolution. I'm just gonna say "It was inappropriate and sad."

[kcscout]

Condolences to the family of the biker. How tragic for everyone. A young man loses his life. Parents lose a son. Two daughters will probably lose their Daddy (regardless of what we think about his actions)...

 

[russell_bynum]

"Gear's daughters told investigators they made obscene gestures when Mough cut them off, and that Mough intentionally ran into their car after they crossed the Oconee County line."

 

Uh, yeah, sure, OK whatever you say girls.

 

(Mough was the motorcyclist.)

 

He intentionally ran a motorcycle into the side of a car? Umm...sure. He probably cut them off because they weren't paying attention talking on their cell phones and probably cut him off earlier.

 

Right...there's no possibility that the rider was even remotely responsible for any of this. Uh uh. No way. Nope. He was on a bike, so he is automatically in the right, by default. (Unless it was a Harley with open pipes, or a sport bike with a fender eliminator or something.)

 

The whole thing seems really odd to me and it seems pretty clear that we do not have the whole/accurate story.

 

That said...I can definitely see being prepared to use lethal force to protect my kids, but if the guy's just riding up and down the street, then he's not really an immediate threat. I'd call the police and take a defensive position where I could defend myself and my family if necessary while I'm waiting for them to arrive or for the situation to go away.

[MotorinLA]

Another sad ending to a "road rage" incident.

 

Why did the involved girls call their father instead of the police?

 

-Because daddy has taught them the value of taking care of your own business?

-Because they were not quite as innocent in the original incident as they purport?

 

And now daddy will most likely go to prison for a long time, costing the rest of us about $50,000.00 a year for board and care...

 

What a stupid and needless way for someone to lose their life.

[Mike]

That said...I can definitely see being prepared to use lethal force to protect my kids, but if the guy's just riding up and down the street, then he's not really an immediate threat. I'd call the police and take a defensive position where I could defend myself and my family if necessary while I'm waiting for them to arrive or for the situation to go away.

 

Bingo. The right answer.

 

Acknowledging that none of us knows the full story, to me the actions of the motorcyclist sound threatening. Or at least, like he was trying to intimidate the girls and/or their dad. Even if I'm right on that point--and I don't know if I am--the best option is always safe retreat, with a call to 9-1-1.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Acknowledging that none of us knows the full story, to me the actions of the motorcyclist sound threatening. Or at least, like he was trying to intimidate the girls and/or their dad.

 

The sheriff confirmed that a traffic collision had taken place; possibly Mough wanted them to stop so they could all exchange insurance information? Following someone around after they flee the scene of an accident is not, in and of itself, threatening behavior.

 

Granted, he may have done other things that could be interpreted as threatening. That said, if the article was right in reporting that he was shot in the back, that could hardly be called self-defense.

[RPG]

No disrespect but I don't think all the facts are in. Feel free to show your support though.

 

No doubt a tragedy, though.

 

RPG

[tallman]

Facts, schmacts.

Guy on bike.

Guy with gun.

Guy with gun shoots guy on bike, in the back.

Nothing else matters.

At the time, the guy on the bike wasn't a threat, didn't go onto property of guy with gun.

Another reason I like my cell phone hooked up to autocom, 911 is just a push away.

Then let the professionals sort it out.

[Bud]

Regardless, it is a shame any way you look at it. One dead, one arrested for shooting someone in the back.

 

Road rage is just that, rage, and people act irrationally.

 

Condolences to the family.

[Mike]

Acknowledging that none of us knows the full story, to me the actions of the motorcyclist sound threatening. Or at least, like he was trying to intimidate the girls and/or their dad.

 

The sheriff confirmed that a traffic collision had taken place; possibly Mough wanted them to stop so they could all exchange insurance information? Following someone around after they flee the scene of an accident is not, in and of itself, threatening behavior.

 

Granted, he may have done other things that could be interpreted as threatening. That said, if the article was right in reporting that he was shot in the back, that could hardly be called self-defense.

 

Here's what some of the on-line news sources report:

 

"[sheriff] Berry said that Gear's two daughters, 17 and 19, called their father as they drove home from an Athens, Ga., Target store to tell him that they had gotten into some sort of road rage dispute with Mough, who was on a motorcycle, in the store's parking lot."

 

Another story:

 

"The daughters, ages 17 and 19, had called their father on a cell phone to tell him they were being followed, Berry said. As they arrived home, Gear was waiting at the end of his driveway with a pistol, Berry said."

 

And . . .

 

"Gear's daughters told investigators Mough cut them off, they made obscene gestures at him and Mough ran into their car at one point, Sheriff Berry said."

 

Really, I don't know what is accurate and what isn't. And I'm not saying that I have concluded that the shooting was justifiable. But, if any of these reports are correct, the defendant went outside his house, after receiving a panicked call from his teenage daughters in which they presented a story of being pursued by an angry man who was making obscene gestures at them and had run into their car. The motorcyclist--perhaps now viewed by the father as someone who's stalking his daughter's and is so nutso as to run into their car with his motorcycle--goes outside and finds the guy riding up and down the street in front of his house.

 

Shooting the guy was NOT the right thing to do. But the situation the shooter found himself in was pretty screwed up and, it would seem, almost certainly was affected by the shooter's anger about an angry man messing around with his daughters. Though not yet proven, there are some facts reported that indicate that the the deceased may have contributed to his own demise.

[russell_bynum]

Facts, schmacts.

Guy on bike.

Guy with gun.

Guy with gun shoots guy on bike, in the back.

Nothing else matters.

At the time, the guy on the bike wasn't a threat, didn't go onto property of guy with gun.

Another reason I like my cell phone hooked up to autocom, 911 is just a push away.

Then let the professionals sort it out.

 

Situations like this usually develop and escalate through a chain of bad decisions...usually from both parties.

 

Now...the thing that ended this situation was the gunshot, and I would say that with the facts that we have that he was probably not justified in using lethal force and he will clearly have to deal with the consequences of that decision.

 

But there was a whole chain of events that led up to that point, and pretending that none of it matters is not a very good way to learn from other people's mistakes.

[Les is more]

who was making obscene gestures at them

 

The quote from the report actually reads

 

 

they made obscene gestures at him

 

Sounds as if the girls were doing there part to escalate things a bit. This is a terrible confluence of events. It certainly doesn't sound like something that should have resulted in a death.

[smiller]

Sounds as if the girls were doing there part to escalate things a bit.

Sounds likely. If so, and to add to the tragedy, imagine what they will have to live with... one person dead and their father in prison, all at least partially contributed to by their own behavior. Very sad, and a tragic reminder to never let road rage get out of hand.

[tallman]

Russell,

I'm fairly certain that your reply to me was a general reply about "learning from other people's mistakes".

I agree that this whole fiasco is sad, but very representative of today's driving world.

I personally don't need to learn from other's mistakes as I've had enough first hand experience to know that the end could be deadly.

I've had people point weapons, shoot at me, intentionally try to hit me, intentionally run over me, try to force their way into my home, try to mug me with the use of a weapon.

On a motorcycle, you ususally lose if you try to "win" on the road.

Personally I look to the words of Sir John Falstaff, "Discretion is the better part of valor."

But, in this case, whether on a motorcycle, bike, unicycle, or pogo stick, shooting the victim in the back was not a necessary use of force.

I support the right to own and use guns.

I don't support the right to shoot someone in the back when there is no immediate threat and there has been no concurrent violation of my rights by the victim.

This is a tragedy, without a hero.

[StuGotz]

<On a motorcycle, you usually LOSE when you try to WIN on the road...>

 

Well said Tallman...

 

Why is this guy following the car anyway???

 

 

[Ken H.]

Facts, schmacts.

Guy on bike.

Guy with gun.

Guy with gun shoots guy on bike, in the back.

Nothing else matters.

Exactly. If this pans out as we now know it, it was murder, plain and simple. Yet another item on the long list of casualties of our armed, violence-based society.

[Agent_Orange]

Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out.

[russell_bynum]

Facts, schmacts.

Guy on bike.

Guy with gun.

Guy with gun shoots guy on bike, in the back.

Nothing else matters.

Exactly. If this pans out as we now know it, it was murder, plain and simple. Yet another item on the long list of casualties of our armed, violence-based society.

 

Guys...you're completely missing the point.

 

With the facts we've got, it seems clear that this was not a justifiable use of force and the shooter will be held accountable.

 

I'm just saying...the shooting is just the end of the story, not the whole story. This wasn't just some motorcyclist riding along minding his own business when suddenly some maniac starts shooting. There was a series of events that led up to this and the rider may or may not have contributed to the situation escalating to where it did. That doesn't justify the shooter's actions...I'm just saying...we don't have the whole story and the rider might not be completely without fault.

[tallman]

Russell,

Most assuredly the motorcyclist contributed to the situation.

But that isn't the issue.

If only he had been 10 seconds away from the initial incident. Then, nothing would have happened.

How many times have we been 5 seconds into or from a situation we did/didn't know about? How many time have we not had to save our bacon simply because of kismet?

When we do get all the facts, I think we'll still shake our heads and say, "this could have been avoided, it's a shame, everyone ends up losing."

[Ken H.]

Guys...you're completely missing the point.

I'm with you on this one Russell. Unless there's some really (really) big factor in this whole thing that hasn't yet come out, IMHO there's no way this shooting was justified. Regardless of everything that happened before it.

[Quinn]

[quote Why is this guy following the car anyway???

 

 

 

I would assume he probably wanted to get their license number, find out where they lived, or continue his contact with them. Now, was he going to contact the police after that or was he going to handle things himself? Did the father with a gun change his plans and make him choose to ride off? No way to know. All our speculations are based on our experiences.

[Ken H.]

Why is this guy following the car anyway???

Why is it relevant?

 

From the upright - 'To exchange insurance information', to the despicable - 'To beat the girls up', and everything in between, NONE OF IT justifies their old-man shooting a departing person (on a bike or otherwise) in the back.

 

The problem with the, "Why is this guy following the car anyway?" question, and all others about the prior Target parking lot incident, is that it's going to cloud the core issue here I fear. Some jury somewhere is going to have sympathy for a father trying to protect his daughters in his simpleton ways as only he knows how, and he'll get off lightly. I hope I'm wrong, but it will be interesting to watch this play out.

[philbytx]

Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out.

 

Now you keep politics out of this

[Knifemaker]

Reading things like this...SOMETIMES....makes me wish for a rotating remote control 50 cal. to be mounted to the "KILLER HARLEY SIDECAR RIG"....But I won't...4 beautiful women knocking out public utilities is all the rep. this bike needs...

 

This guy needs to be prosecuted...but right, wrong, or indifferent I would have never followed these girls home..

[Agent_Orange]

Well hell, if they were that ugly, I wouldn't have followed them either.

[Kraynak]

Well from what I can gather from people that know Bryan and from what he has posted on the Forum in the past, he was a young kid working at Target and learning on how to ride responsibly,did he make some bad decesions, yeah. Would I have followed those girls home- maybe.

As far as being a threat, he was a geeky 150lb kid, on a Ninja 250. Now if I showed up at your door then I could see someone needing a gun. What type of mindset was this father in that he felt that he needed his gun before anything happend?

The father that shot him in the back like a coward will hopefully find a real threat in jail to his back side.-lol

And his daughter will be home alone unprotected, some irony.

[DaveTheAffable]

It is a tragedy. I'm sorry for the loss of life, and the grief that lies ahead for all who were impacted by poor decisions. Very sad.

 

Second note. It really DOESN'T matter that he was on a motorcycle. He could have been in a car, on a skate board, or on a bicycle.

 

I don't think anyone believes that the father said to himself, "Aww heck, he's a motorcyclist. That means it's ok to shoot him".

 

What does matter to the OP is that he was known to him. And the association happens to be 'motorcycle'.

 

We have all grieved over the loss of an associate we have known whether it was from a hobby, workplace, church, school, or motorcycles. And some of them were not perfect people.

 

None the less... we grieve.

 

Praying for ALL who were involved, and the OP.

[Kraynak]

http://onlineathens.com/stories/030208/news_2008030200272.shtml

 

One of the best and worst day of riding I have ever done. I would not have missed it though. The family was so happy to see us there.

[velomoto]

... The problem with the, "Why is this guy following the car anyway?" question, and all others about the prior Target parking lot incident, is that it's going to cloud the core issue here I fear. Some jury somewhere is going to have sympathy for a father trying to protect his daughters in his simpleton ways as only he knows how, and he'll get off lightly. I hope I'm wrong, but it will be interesting to watch this play out.

Sadly I think you're going to be right on this. We make it easy to own guns and then are surprise and outraged to see how they're used.

[soboy]

From everything I have read, this sounds like cold blooded murder. Shooting an unarmed 21 year old kid in the back while he is riding away is going to land the shooter in prison for a very long time. And sadly, this isn't the first time the shooter has apparently drawn on people:

 

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/022808/news_2008022800152.shtml

 

Hopefully, the prosecution will be able to enter the 2006 shooting incident into evidence as a prior similar act. If I was on the jury and heard about the 2006 incident, I'd vote to fry this guy.

 

The entire incident is tragic and yet another sign of the disintegrating society we live in. I learned a long time ago not to engage anyone, at anytime, in road rage.

[smiller]

Sadly I think you're going to be right on this. We make it easy to own guns and then are surprise and outraged to see how they're used.

And theeeey're off...

[Ken H.]

Sadly I think you're going to be right on this. We make it easy to own guns and then are surprise and outraged to see how they're used.

And theeeey're off...

Hey! I didn't go there (this time).

[Boffin]

Thanks for that Ken. I do not think we need another gun control thread, especially when it would be something of a hijack.

 

Andy

[eddd]

One simple observation.

 

As has been noted, we don't have all the facts, and in my opinion and experience, we are likely to get at least some inaccurate information from the media, to say nothing about the relevant information that is not reported at all.