Driving Poorly Intentionally !?!

[Ken H.]

I was reading a blurb in which a guy was talking about using intentional erratic driving to your advantage. One example he gave was if you want to change lanes but are having trouble finding a space in the next lane over in which to move, intentionally swerve a bit toward the lane you want. Someone there will get leery of you, give you some space in the interest of their own safety, then you can make your move. A bit perverse but passable I suppose. Ah, the “criminal” mind...

[MattS]

It's nearly the same policy as walking through a bad neighborhood. Alone. At night.

 

You start talking to yourself and landing a couple of uppercuts on yourself -- all but guaranteed to be left alone.

[SageRider]

Doesn't work in most areas...

The Lookie Lews have to gather around to see what's happening...

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

I was reading a blurb in which a guy was talking about using intentional erratic driving to your advantage. One example he gave was if you want to change lanes but are having trouble finding a space in the next lane over in which to move, intentionally swerve a bit toward the lane you want. Someone there will get leery of you, give you some space in the interest of their own safety, then you can make your move. A bit perverse but passable I suppose. Ah, the “criminal” mind...

 

Saw something like this on the way back from El Paseo once, I think. A big-rig in left lane ("articulating lorry" for you folks across the pond), a car next to it in right lane, close to back end of trailer; I was well behind the two of them. Big rig wanted to move into car's lane, signaled for a lane change. Signal lights under cab were visible from my location, I'm sure they were visible to the car driver, but the car driver was either oblivious or being deliberately obstinate, and refused to make room. This went on for a good twenty seconds, and finally the trucker swerved just a little bit, causing the trailer to drift over dramatically toward the car. Car got the message, slowed up and made room for the truck.

 

I can't say for certain whether this was a case of "driving poorly intentionally," or whether the truck was actually going to change lanes and then cancelled, or what, but he got what he wanted.

[T__]

I was reading a blurb in which a guy was talking about using intentional erratic driving to your advantage. One example he gave was if you want to change lanes but are having trouble finding a space in the next lane over in which to move, intentionally swerve a bit toward the lane you want. Someone there will get leery of you, give you some space in the interest of their own safety, then you can make your move. A bit perverse but passable I suppose. Ah, the “criminal” mind...

 

Ken, I use something similar to get people to move off my a$$ or to quit trying to drive right next to me.. I just drive drunk,, kind of allow the truck to drift around in the lane with a quick catch as I drift all around all over in my lane.. Never allow it to leave my lane but pretty close.. It’s amazing how people will stay a long ways away.. Still waiting for someone to call the cops on me but so far it is real effective at getting rid of those close pests..

 

Twisty

[exwingnut]

This went on for a good twenty seconds, and finally the trucker swerved just a little bit, causing the trailer to drift over dramatically toward the car. Car got the message, slowed up and made room for the truck.

 

I have done just that many times towing a 5th wheel, people do not want you in front of them (duh), I usually let the blinker flash 5 times and then started to make my move, watching the mirror of course to make sure I wasn't running them off the road. In nearly every case the driver in the car moved back immediatly. On the GS, I just flick it back and forth left to right a few times and most drivers back off from the crazy biker.

 

 

I still do not understand how people blithely sail along right next to another vehicle, I immediately feel trapped and hemmed in when another vehicle is right by my side.

[velomoto]

Ken, I use something similar to get people to move off my a$$ or to quit trying to drive right next to me.. I just drive drunk,, kind of allow the truck to drift around in the lane with a quick catch as I drift all around all over in my lane.. Never allow it to leave my lane but pretty close.. It’s amazing how people will stay a long ways away.. Still waiting for someone to call the cops on me but so far it is real effective at getting rid of those close pests..

 

Twisty

 

I thot I was the only one doing this (but only when in a car). It's worked every time I've used it and I've yet to be pulled over. When on the scooter, if someone is on my a$$ I'll keep to the far left side of the lane so they have room to avoid me should I slow and I'll leave an extra large gap in front so I have better visibility and more time to react.

 

When driving in CO one has to be careful of when and where one uses turn signals. The standard protocol on intestates and similar multi-lane highways seems to require one to intentionally speed up and block anyone who signals they want to move into one's lane. Perhaps this is just an angry reaction to the congestion and traffic which has occurred recently? BTW, this doesn't only occur at high speeds - there seems to be some difficulty with learning the concept of "merging".

[Francois_Dumas]

I think that is called 'Parisien Style' ???

[Bill_Walker]

Count me in as another one who does this, but only when towing a trailer. It's amazing how quickly space opens up around you when you induce a little sway in the trailer. Sadly, I can't do this with the horse trailer, as the horses don't care for the swaying either.

[steveknapp]

I'm confused, this "courtesy swerve" sounds like a nice little hint, almost like using your turn signal. Around these parts the norm is to just change lanes without it.

 

And with the trailer, at some point all the signaling in the world doesn't do any good. If you're running out of road you just change lanes nice and slow and hope those next to you figure it out better than they figured out what that turn signal meant.

[russell_bynum]

Been there, done that.

[Rob_Mayes]

I agree , there is a place for this type of driving as long as you don't break the law. I do it with my bicycle sometimes. If I see a car approaching from behind. I wobble a bit. More often than not the driver then slows down and passes me carefully giving me a wide birth.

[MNCruiser]

In my pickup, I turn on the indicator and leave it on. After it’s been on long enough that I know everyone around me has seen it, if a gap doesn't appear, I just very slowly start changing lanes. People generally do not want to risk an accident so they back off. You might get the one finger salute now and then...but who gives a crap. They saw my blinker...they knew I might be coming over...they were ready for it. How have I inconvenienced them?...I made them move their right foot 3 inches to the left. If that causes them to go into a rage...they've got issues as far as I'm concerned.

 

On my bike, I indicate...look directly into the eyes of the driver of the vehicle I want to get in front of...point to where I want to go...wave, nod , smile as a thank-you and then change lanes. Works every time.

[David]

But then, I've always been the glass 1/2 full type

 

You're the people we pull in front of.

[russell_bynum]

But then, I've always been the glass 1/2 full type

 

You're the people we pull in front of.

 

[steveknapp]

But then, I've always been the glass 1/2 full type

 

You're the people we pull in front of.

 

 

Russell, can you get some metrics on your posting habits? I'm curious of your 20801 posts, how many are you replying with something so deep and meaningful as "".

 

I'm guessing 80%.

[russell_bynum]

But then, I've always been the glass 1/2 full type

 

You're the people we pull in front of.

 

 

Russell, can you get some metrics on your posting habits? I'm curious of your 20801 posts, how many are you replying with something so deep and meaningful as "".

 

I'm guessing 80%.

 

+1

 

 

 

 

If you filter out all of my posts with no content, I'd still have the "Just Joined" title under my user name.

[steveknapp]

Your employer is already asking Les for stats on your "response time" to new posts.

[russell_bynum]

Your employer is already asking Les for stats on your "response time" to new posts.

 

That's the other benefit of my posts. Since they don't have any real content, they don't require any thought. It's much easier to raise your post count when you don't have to make sure your posts are coherent or meaningful.

[Huzband]

Your employer is already asking Les for stats on your "response time" to new posts.

 

That's the other benefit of my posts. Since they don't have any real content, they don't require any thought. It's much easier to raise your post count when you don't have to make sure your posts are coherent or meaningful.

 

Oh, kinda like Advrider.

 

[exwingnut]

I'm confused, this "courtesy swerve" sounds like a nice little hint, almost like using your turn signal. Around these parts the norm is to just change lanes without it.

 

 

And with the trailer, at some point all the signaling in the world doesn't do any good. If you're running out of road you just change lanes nice and slow and hope those next to you figure it out better than they figured out what that turn signal meant.

 

 

Who has the right of way here? I always understood that the vehicle in front has the right of way.

But, what about the 'who had the last chance to avoid the accident' angle?

 

LEO's, help us out with this please.

[T__]

I'm confused, this "courtesy swerve" sounds like a nice little hint, almost like using your turn signal. Around these parts the norm is to just change lanes without it.

 

 

And with the trailer, at some point all the signaling in the world doesn't do any good. If you're running out of road you just change lanes nice and slow and hope those next to you figure it out better than they figured out what that turn signal meant.

 

 

Who has the right of way here? I always understood that the vehicle in front has the right of way.

But, what about the 'who had the last chance to avoid the accident' angle?

 

LEO's, help us out with this please.

 

MASS -ALWAYS- has the right of way.. That is not a state or federal law it is a fact of life..

 

Twisty

[steveknapp]

But, what about the 'who had the last chance to avoid the accident' angle?

 

FWIW, I'm pretty nice on most multi-lane roads. I'll give truckers room where needed, and await a space if I'm trying to change lanes just for speed.

 

Where the "might is right" comes in is any time my lane doesn't exist in a few hundred yards.

[Ken H.]

Am I the only one that thinks this might lead to an accident if the person getting "swerved at" over reacts? I can envision a driver not paying attention, then out of the corner of their eye catch a glimpse of something coming at them. But then, I've always been the glass 1/2 full type

The whole thing seemed like a really poor idea to me. Which is why I posted it. I have to admit to being rather amazed at some of the comments it's getting here. Oh well, never ceases to surprise.

[David]

Ken, back when I had my CDL...and even now...I drove some big things: busses, very long trailer, etc. It's a different world.

[ShovelStrokeEd]

I have to admit to being rather amazed at some of the comments it's getting here.

 

Me too. I'll weave in my lane to alert a tail gater that he is too close, even slowing a bit until I can find an opportunity to get out of his way.

 

If you are not driving a turbo Porche or ZR6 Vette, accelerating to keep me from changing lanes in front of you just isn't gonna work.

 

I'll not sit in an area that keeps a passing vehicle from changing back into my lane, doesn't matter if I'm on a bike or in a cage. I usually yield and let them in.

 

If I'm on my game while riding, the situation where I'm boxed in on an overtake just doesn't occur. I will either have sped up to avoid it or slowed to wait for a better opportunity. Throwing a fake just never would occur to me. I have had folks purposefully try to block me in which case they usually get treated to a demonstration of my lane splitting skills and a single finger salute as I depart into the middle distance.

[Quinn]

So, how do I determine if you're only "pretending" to swerve into my lane? Especially if I'm on my bike and beside your rear tire? I've had an occation while lining up at a traffic light where an SUV just started moving into my lane while we were crawling up to a full stop. Didn't seem to matter that there were no cars behind me; it was my space that he wanted. He saw me and even started to move back over, then apparently realized that there was nothing I could do and started over again. I swerved around him as he came over and got in front with little room to car in front. Again, there was no one behind us in that lane.

 

So is this driving poorly intentionally or just being an a$$hole and trying to kill me? Really wish I could just stop everyone and go ask these people what they are thinking.

[leikam]

Especially if I'm on my bike and beside your rear tire?

 

What are you doing there? Like Ed said, on a bike, there's little reason that these tactics should affect you. This is a car/truck-sized manouver.

 

As for those who might be startled and over-react, if they're that close to the edge in the sort of congested traffic where this tactic would be useful, well, they've got more troubles than me trying to get enough space for a lane change.

[russell_bynum]

Especially if I'm on my bike and beside your rear tire?

 

What are you doing there? Like Ed said, on a bike, there's little reason that these tactics should affect you. This is a car/truck-sized manouver.

 

As for those who might be startled and over-react, if they're that close to the edge in the sort of congested traffic where this tactic would be useful, well, they've got more troubles than me trying to get enough space for a lane change.

 

Exactly.

[MotorinLA]

I'm confused, this "courtesy swerve" sounds like a nice little hint, almost like using your turn signal. Around these parts the norm is to just change lanes without it.

 

 

And with the trailer, at some point all the signaling in the world doesn't do any good. If you're running out of road you just change lanes nice and slow and hope those next to you figure it out better than they figured out what that turn signal meant.

 

 

Who has the right of way here? I always understood that the vehicle in front has the right of way.

But, what about the 'who had the last chance to avoid the accident' angle?

 

LEO's, help us out with this please.

 

In California:

 

Definition:

Collision - An unintended event that produces damage or injury involving a vehicle in-transport.

 

Vehicle Code

VC 21658. Whenever any roadway has been divided into two or more clearly marked lanes for traffic in one direction, the following rules apply:

(a) A vehicle shall be driven as nearly as practical entirely within a single lane and shall not be moved from the lane until such movement can be made with reasonable safety.

 

VC 22107. No person shall turn a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway until such movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after the giving of an appropriate signal in the manner provided in this chapter in the event any other vehicle may be affected by the movement.

 

Penal Code

PC 245(a)(1) - aka ADW - Any person who commits an assault upon the person of another with a deadly weapon or instrument other than a firearm or by any means of force likely to produce great bodily injury shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for two, three, or four years, or in a county jail for not exceeding one year, or by a fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars ($10,000), or by both the fine and imprisonment.

 

In other words, if you run your car into me intentionally (ADW - not an unintended act), I can legally shoot you for trying to cause injury or death to my person.

 

Just something to consider...

[russell_bynum]

In other words, if you run your car into me intentionally (ADW - not an unintended act), I can legally shoot you for trying to cause injury or death to my person.

 

Nobody's running into anybody. It is a bluff. It isn't my first choice for making lane changes, but it is an option and it often works. My first choice is find a hole, signal, and move into the hole. Second choice is turn on my signal and hope someone makes room (intentionally or otherwise). If that doesn't work, I'll drift over to the edge of the lane like maybe I'm not really sure where the edges of my vehicle are. Usually that works best against people who are too oblivious to notice me trying to get over via normal means...and often times, they're actually speeding up/slowing down to match me...without even realizing it. (Some people do it intentionally to be jerks, but most of the time, I think people are just doing it because they're oblivious.) Get too close and they start to take notice. Maybe kiss the edge of a few Bots Dots to make that distinctive thump-thump-thump-thump sound. Very often, that'll get their attention and cause them to do SOMETHING. Speed up, slow down, move over...any of those options are fine with me because they create an opening that I can change lanes into.

[MotorinLA]

In other words, if you run your car into me intentionally (ADW - not an unintended act), I can legally shoot you for trying to cause injury or death to my person.

 

Nobody's running into anybody. It is a bluff. It isn't my first choice for making lane changes, but it is an option and it often works. My first choice is find a hole, signal, and move into the hole. Second choice is turn on my signal and hope someone makes room (intentionally or otherwise). If that doesn't work, I'll drift over to the edge of the lane like maybe I'm not really sure where the edges of my vehicle are. Usually that works best against people who are too oblivious to notice me trying to get over via normal means...and often times, they're actually speeding up/slowing down to match me...without even realizing it. (Some people do it intentionally to be jerks, but most of the time, I think people are just doing it because they're oblivious.) Get too close and they start to take notice. Maybe kiss the edge of a few Bots Dots to make that distinctive thump-thump-thump-thump sound. Very often, that'll get their attention and cause them to do SOMETHING. Speed up, slow down, move over...any of those options are fine with me because they create an opening that I can change lanes into.

 

Just commenting on the "like it or not, here I come!" remarks made earlier.

 

Furthermore, in L.A. during hot summer days/nights there are many people who don't need legal justification to open fire upon you or your vehicle. Keep that in mind when you intentionally do things that could piss off other drivers.

[russell_bynum]

Furthermore, in L.A. during hot summer days/nights there are many people who don't need legal justification to open fire upon you or your vehicle. Keep that in mind when you intentionally do things that could piss off other drivers.

 

Bah.

[MotorinLA]

Furthermore, in L.A. during hot summer days/nights there are many people who don't need legal justification to open fire upon you or your vehicle. Keep that in mind when you intentionally do things that could piss off other drivers.

 

Bah.

 

More like "Ka-Pow".

[russell_bynum]

Furthermore, in L.A. during hot summer days/nights there are many people who don't need legal justification to open fire upon you or your vehicle. Keep that in mind when you intentionally do things that could piss off other drivers.

 

Bah.

 

More like "Ka-Pow".

 

Nah...Mosta those jokers couldn't hit the broadside of a barn if they were inside the barn.

 

Besides...it's springtime in LA and that means Open Season on the LA Freeway. So...I'll be returning fire the whole time.

[Silver Surfer/AKAButters]

 

Not for me. I'm with the crew that is concerned about someone over reacting and causing an accident. Then witnesses could agree that the MC driver driving errtically caused the incident. I'll stick to flashers, brake lights, and just moving myself out of harms way.

[russell_bynum]

Not for me. I'm with the crew that is concerned about someone over reacting and causing an accident. Then witnesses could agree that the MC driver driving errtically caused the incident. I'll stick to flashers, brake lights, and just moving myself out of harms way.

 

1. There's absolutely NO reason to do that sort of thing on a motorcycle. We're talking about doing it in larger vehicles that don't have the maneuverability.

 

2. We're not talking about a wild swerve towards someone. Just drifting over a bit. Anyone who over reacts and causes an accident due to that has much bigger problems to worry about.

[Quinn]

 

 

What you're talking about is intimidation. What your actions indicate is that you're going to move over into my lane regardless of room and I'd better just start making allowance for it if I'm going to survive.

 

You are acting like a bully.

[George Brown]

Ken, I use something similar to get people to move off my a$$ or to quit trying to drive right next to me.. I just drive drunk,, kind of allow the truck to drift around in the lane with a quick catch as I drift all around all over in my lane.. Never allow it to leave my lane but pretty close.. It’s amazing how people will stay a long ways away.. Still waiting for someone to call the cops on me but so far it is real effective at getting rid of those close pests..

 

Twisty

 

Me too! Used to tow a race car on an open trailer and found a lot of people would hang out along side the trailer. A quick flick of the wheel to make the trailer serve a little would get them motivated to move on.

[MNCruiser]

[quote2.

What you're talking about is intimidation. What your actions indicate is that you're going to move over into my lane regardless of room and I'd better just start making allowance for it if I'm going to survive.

 

You are acting like a bully.

 

If you are on the road driving a vehicle, you should be at least semi alert to what is going on around you, especially if you are in heavy traffic, as this thread seems to indicate. If you are a courteous driver, you would be letting someone in before they have to resort to odd driving tactics. If not, then you are the bully for not giving way.

 

Again, I really fail to see how anyone is inconvenienced by letting someone change lanes in front of them providing they have been given sufficient notice of the intent.

[russell_bynum]

2. We're not talking about a wild swerve towards someone. Just drifting over a bit. Anyone who over reacts and causes an accident due to that has much bigger problems to worry about.

 

 

What you're talking about is intimidation. What your actions indicate is that you're going to move over into my lane regardless of room and I'd better just start making allowance for it if I'm going to survive.

 

You are acting like a bully.

 

You're getting closer. I'm not saying "I'm moving over whether you like it or not." I'm saying "I may not have control and awareness over my vehicle and I might accidentally come into your lane."

 

If that doesn't work, the next step is outright bullying like you said...I'm coming in, like it or not.

 

Like I said...not my first (or second) choice, but when I need to get over and things aren't working out playing nice, I'll play not as nice. And if that doesn't work, I'll resort to pushing you down in the mud and stealing your lunch money.

[Hermes]

A Taxy driver in Boston introduced that particular maneuver to me in 74 as the "Boston Dodger", and it did work so well that I have adopted it.

Jurgen

[leikam]

You are acting like a bully.

 

If I need to convince you to make room for me, it means you are tailgating the car in front of you. Nobody's a saint in this situation.

[steveknapp]

You're getting closer. I'm not saying "I'm moving over whether you like it or not." I'm saying "I may not have control and awareness over my vehicle and I might accidentally come into your lane."

 

If that doesn't work, the next step is outright bullying like you said...I'm coming in, like it or not.

 

Maybe I'm using this differently...

 

I've got a truck and trailer, total GVWR is probably ~11k. Did I mention I've coughed up the cash in both purchase price, fuel, and inspections (never mind that Ken hates me) to have the largest safety margin within my vehicle for pulling this rather light load.

 

The right lane is ending. I'm in the right lane to allow traffic that is going faster to pass. Illinois law requires me to travel 10mph slower (55 not 65) as I have a trailer in tow. So "speeding up" isn't a legal option, but one that if available I'd use. Traffic prevents me from speeding up.

 

The faster traffic for whatever reason isn't letting me in. So my choices are :

- Crash into the guard rail

- "Be a bully"

 

It's like that person that no matter how loud you say "excuse me" isn't listening and eventually you just squeeze by them?

 

I don't tow that often and still I'm shocked at the number of times people are ignorant of the limitations of a heavier vehicle. Longer stopping distances, slower acceleration, much harder to maneuver. As David said it's a VERY different situation to be in and you drive it VERY differently.

 

Situations that are tough like these on ramps become even tougher with a big slow vehicle. Honestly, regardless of vehicle this is a situation where you accelerate, merge, and assume the person behind you doesn't want the hassle. You just can't see, nor do you have the room to think.

[russell_bynum]

Yep.

 

The "drift over towards them a bit" is a tactic for when everyone's moving along and you need to start making your way into (or across) their lane.

 

Definitely when it's "run into a guard rail" or "Be a bully", there's no question which one is the right answer.

[exwingnut]

So, how do I determine if you're only "pretending" to swerve into my lane? Especially if I'm on my bike and beside your rear tire? I've had an occation while lining up at a traffic light where an SUV just started moving into my lane while we were crawling up to a full stop. Didn't seem to matter that there were no cars behind me; it was my space that he wanted. He saw me and even started to move back over, then apparently realized that there was nothing I could do and started over again. I swerved around him as he came over and got in front with little room to car in front. Again, there was no one behind us in that lane.

 

I believe that we are talking about two different situations here...a car mindlessly rolling along next to my trailer on the freeway is somehow different than a knothead trying to run me over by making a lane change into me at a stop.

 

So is this driving poorly intentionally or just being an a$$hole and trying to kill me? Really wish I could just stop everyone and go ask these people what they are thinking.

 

What people are THINKING? I believe we have gotten to the crux of the matter, i.e. are people really thinking when they are driving!

 

In the case you cited, he was deliberately (doing it with with malice or intent to injure cannot be determined) trying to take you spot in traffic, regardless of your right to it.

 

I will still stick with the 'ease over to the line' method of getting people, who have previously not noticed my lawful and repeated signals, to see that they are not being the most couteous of drivers. I am not advocating swerving over into someone elses lane, just edging over closer to the line.

 

We would have a world of better drivers if all drivers had to both drive a motorcycle and tow a trailer for a while. Most people just do not have a clue as to how different it is and how difficult they can make if for those of us who do.

[leikam]

Southern California: where the drivers are courteous and the guard rails are nervous.