No more negative feedback from Ebay sellers

[NoHeat]

I'm really glad about this news. Ebay will now only let buyers rate sellers, and not vice versa.

 

Last year I gave a seller a negative feedback because he took my money for an item he didn't have in stock, and he retaliated with negative feedback for me, even though he was clearly wrong in the whole matter. That cut my rating to a point where I had to give up that alias, for the purpose of selling anything. I'm glad he can't do that to another customer now.

 

Retaliation by sellers on eBay was getting to a point where I was reluctant to use eBay anymore. I recently bought a product there, and the seller immediately sent me an email announcing in a big bold font that he will retaliate if a buyer gives him negative feedback. I'm glad that's over.

[HappyMan]

Yes! It was getting ridiculous, like black mail.

[Stir]

I'm really glad about this news. Ebay will now only let buyers rate sellers, and not vice versa.

 

Last year I gave a seller a negative feedback because he took my money for an item he didn't have in stock, and he retaliated with negative feedback for me, even though he was clearly wrong in the whole matter. That cut my rating to a point where I had to give up that alias, for the purpose of selling anything. I'm glad he can't do that to another customer now.

 

Retaliation by sellers on eBay was getting to a point where I was reluctant to use eBay anymore. I recently bought a product there, and the seller immediately sent me an email announcing in a big bold font that he will retaliate if a buyer gives him negative feedback. I'm glad that's over.

 

I got ripped off by a seller. I complained and he hit me with negative feedback. I'm good with this. I've sold things and they were precisely what I described. I got very good feed back. So it the seller is on the up and up, I think they will be okay.

[HappyMan]

The world can be full of people looking to take advantage of you and unfortunately they get away with it way too often. As an honest business man I often wonder to myself if an honest business man can make it in this world. It certainly isn't profitable and most people will not reward you for it......sorry, I'm ranting.

[BUSTED]

I've won over 300 auctions on ebay over the years. All positive feedback, but one. I never received an item I won from an unscrupulous seller. My mistake for giving his 99+%rating the benefit of a doubt. I tried all Ebay's safe harbour crap to get it straightened out. No satisfaction from them. Not much incentive for Ebay to side with a buyer since they collect their premium from the seller. On the 90th day after the auction win, near the end of the 24th hour I posted negative feedback for the seller since ebay guidelines set that as a deadline for leaving feedback. This seller's feedback reaked of retaliatory negatives for ebay members that left him negatives,(he has over 400 negatives although his rating is over 99%). Then, 4 days past the 90 day deadline I got a negative from the seller. When I contacted ebay asking how this happened, they said it could happen if they felt the need to! I didn't buy anything on ebay for the next 18 months. I wish I hadn't started using them again.

[eddd]

As an occasional seller, I always leave positive feedback as soon as I received payment. I felt it was the duty and responsibility of a seller to do so first. It seldom worked the same way with my purchases. Many sellers would not leave feedback until the buyer did. I had two negatives because I told the truth about a seller. After that, I stopped leaving feedback for sellers unless they did so first. I was once blackmailed into leaving a positive for a damaged item before the seller would refund my money. Overall, I agree this is a move in the right direction. Good sellers will be fine.

[BUSTED]

I was just visiting the ebay discussion boards and the sellers are going nuts. They want a seller revolt! In one thread a seller openly states he uses retaliatory feedback to get even with buyers. I only gave one negative to a seller, he never sent my auction win, in 300 auctions and I received a negative for it even though I completed my part of the buyers contract! The seller would to agree to a mutual withdrawl of the negatives. In so many scrambled words he would keep my money and I'd get my perfect buying history back. I kept the negative! I did report the seller to the IFCC,(Internet Fraud Complaint Center). Never did hear from them about anything.

[HappyMan]

It's a system gone bad. Let the sellers leave and flush the system out.

[Beemr69]

Let the sellers leave and flush the system out.

 

The key word is flush .

[Rider1200RT]

I have sold a few items on fleabay and have good feed back. The one time I bought something it was a very negative experience. I rather not use E-Bay at all ever again.

[Ken H.]

Well as a more frequent seller than buyer I've got to agree with the sellers' group crying foul!

 

There are buyers that bid up and close on a item, never to be heard from again. And it's the seller that's out the effort that went into creating the posting, the actual cost of it, and the lost potential sale to someone else who was serious. ("Second chance" not withstanding.)

 

While retaliatory feedbacks are a problem, this isn't the way to solve it; biasing the system to one side of the equation.

[Woodie]

Retaliatory feedback is a problem. A number of sellers I've run in to have it automated: Once I (buyer) leave feedback, they (seller) leave matching feedback, with generic text, regardless of what really happened in the transaction.

 

Particularly irritating. Perhaps something more like: Seller MUST leave feedback first. If the seller waits until the buyer has posted, then the seller is blocked form posting. Since ebay is a payment first setup anyway, the buyer has to complete his responsibilities first.

 

I try not to use ebay too much anyway.

[Dave McReynolds]

I've shied away from using EBay as a buyer in the past, primarily because of uncertainty about losing my money or not receiving what I think I'm buying. I've shied away from using EBay as a seller in the past, primarily because I'm not sure how to break into a system where I'll start out unrated. I know many of you have had many good experiences on EBay, but as these posts illustrate, it's far from perfect.

 

I'm sure that those of us who feel as I do would do a lot more business on EBay if there were some sort of middle-man clearing house involved, where the buyer sent his money and the seller sent his goods, and some sort of matchup was made before the transaction was concluded.

 

I can't imagine why there would be a need for an evaluation of a buyer so long as he paid for the goods and he received them as advertised. It would seem that 100% of the first issue, and 99% of the second issue could be handled better if the transaction were closed through a middle-man. Clearly, about all a middle-man could do is to verify that if you are paying for a bicycle, that's what you're getting, and it looks like the picture in the ad. It would also help those of us who would like to break into selling on EBay but are unrated, since I would have some comfort as a buyer if I knew that my money wouldn't be taken until someone had done at least a basic comparison of the product with the description.

[AndyW9999]

Well as a more frequent seller than buyer I've got to agree with the sellers' group crying foul!

 

There are buyers that bid up and close on a item, never to be heard from again. And it's the seller that's out the effort that went into creating the posting, the actual cost of it, and the lost potential sale to someone else who was serious. ("Second chance" not withstanding.)

 

While retaliatory feedbacks are a problem, this isn't the way to solve it; biasing the system to one side of the equation.

 

I agree although the new rules would have suited me - 600+ transactions roughly 50/50 buying vs selling and I've received 4 'retaliatory' negative feedbacks from sellers as a result of sticking to my principles and giving -ve feedback where it's due (all I did in each case was, win the auction, pay via PayPal instantly......and then not receive the item/receive poor or shoddy item etc!)

[Gregori]

I've done a fair bit of selling on eBay, and in my opinion, I have to say this change is not for the better.

Perhaps they should have simply done away with buyer received feedback completely, since this change effectively means that buyer feedback is completely useless.

 

I've had lots of buyers flake out, send payment late or short, have unrealistic expectations/requests, or even want to negotiate the shipping cost or item price after the auction is over! The inability to note this in feedback makes it hard to know what to expect from a buyer. Currently, if I have a buyer who expresses a problem, but has perfect feedback, I'm far more likely to believe that they're sincere, and the problem is real. If a buyer has marginal feedback, then I have to take any whining with a grain of salt. And there are a lot of people who will try to leverage the one-way feedback for personal advantage.

 

Feedback changes that might work?

As eBay has done for almost a year, you can now give 'detailed' feedback rated on a scale, for things like communication, item as described, and speed/cost of shipping. MUCH better than good/bad/neutral. (Which is generally seen as bad, anyway.) These ratings are basically anonymous, as they're only displayed in aggregate. There is currently not a system for rating buyers.

Feedback commentary should be "escrowed" as well. That is, the buyer and seller would *both* need to leave feedback before the comments/rating are released. If you never left feedback, you'd never receive any. This would additionally prevent retaliatory feedback, as neither buyer nor seller would have any way of knowing what feedback was left.

 

Will I continue to use eBay? Sure - but it's not as friendly a place as it used to be.

[Mike]

I'm not sure if it's the right answer, but I had a horrible experience with negative feedback a couple of years ago and have been reluctant to use eBay ever since. In a nutshell, I won an auction, paid for the item, and never got it. After a half-dozen e-mails to the seller, to which I got no reply, I filed a complaint and negative feedback.

 

The seller responded with negative feedback and described me as a "Con Artist." Only after the arbitration process did he discover that he had not shipped the item (I had previously bought another item from him and he claimed that he was confused by the fact that he had a record of shipping the first item). The negative feedback from both of us was "mutually withdrawn," which actually was a disservice to subsequent buyers, but the only way I could retain my 100% rating on eBay.

 

I don't know if what eBay is doing is the right response, but there's a problem out there and some of the big eBay sellers really abuse the feedback system. It does need to be corrected somehow.

[eddd]

Gregori, I like your escrow idea. It may be that some issues would still need to be worked out, but it does address the retaliation, which should have been addressed by ebay before this time. Sellers who use this tactic should have been flagged and dropped. It was easy to see their pattern.

[T__]

I'm really glad about this news. Ebay will now only let buyers rate sellers, and not vice versa.

 

Last year I gave a seller a negative feedback because he took my money for an item he didn't have in stock, and he retaliated with negative feedback for me, even though he was clearly wrong in the whole matter. That cut my rating to a point where I had to give up that alias, for the purpose of selling anything. I'm glad he can't do that to another customer now.

 

Retaliation by sellers on eBay was getting to a point where I was reluctant to use eBay anymore. I recently bought a product there, and the seller immediately sent me an email announcing in a big bold font that he will retaliate if a buyer gives him negative feedback. I'm glad that's over.

 

 

I’m a frequent E-Bay buyer & an infrequent E-Bay seller.. I can see both sides to this problem..

 

Unfortunately the system in place now is NOT WORKING as most people are very afraid to give negative feedback even when it is justified.. There might as well not be any feedback system under today’s rules as the buyer feedback data is virtually useless..

 

I guess I would like to see the buyer feedback same as it is now & a LIMITED seller feedback such as a series of check boxes that could indicate if buyer paid in a timely manner,, responded to sellers inquiries,, etc..

 

There does seem to be a number of dead beat buyers & that should somehow be noted.. But having a seller rate a buyer fairly AFTER a negative comment is just not the answer..

 

Most store owners can not rate their customers but a lot of their mis-deals find their way onto a web site as a negative..

 

Twisty

[steveknapp]

So when do they fix the ".01 for the item + $100 for S/H" sellers? Or the ones selling illegal copies of copyrighted material?

 

eBay has a lot of crap, and you just need to filter through it.

 

I've only got one negative on eBay, from a buyer who's item was damaged in shipping. Rather than emailing me he left the negative. He didn't want a discount, or refund, or anything. He was happy how things turned out, just wanted me to know it arrived damaged. *sigh*

 

FWIW, I left him a neutral, not a negative. He paid promptly, but didn't give me a chance to make things right.

[JohnBryer]

So when do they fix the ".01 for the item + $100 for S/H" sellers? Or the ones selling illegal copies of copyrighted material?

 

eBay has a lot of crap, and you just need to filter through it.

 

I just came across this post...I work for eBay in Trust in Safety in Salt Lake City.

 

The shipping issue should be taken care of since fees will now be based off final values of the merchandise, including shipping (at least that's my understanding).

 

The group that handles copyrights sits right next to me. I actually had one of my own auctions pulled a few weeks back because, unknown to me, a North Face jacket that I was trying to sell apparently is a clone. You can bet that this stuff is being worked on to clean things up.

[MotorinLA]

So when do they fix the ".01 for the item + $100 for S/H" sellers? Or the ones selling illegal copies of copyrighted material?

 

eBay has a lot of crap, and you just need to filter through it.

 

I just came across this post...I work for eBay in Trust in Safety in Salt Lake City.

 

The shipping issue should be taken care of since fees will now be based off final values of the merchandise, including shipping (at least that's my understanding).

 

The group that handles copyrights sits right next to me. I actually had one of my own auctions pulled a few weeks back because, unknown to me, a North Face jacket that I was trying to sell apparently is a clone. You can bet that this stuff is being worked on to clean things up.

 

[slight hijack]

Along those same lines... some of these professional e-bay sellers appear to create 'legitimate buyer profiles' and then use these profiles to bid on their own items to drive up the price of the item. What kind of controls does e-bay have in place for this kind of shenanigans (love that word)?

[/hijack]

[Ken H.]

Gregori, I like your escrow idea.

They already do for big ticket items. www.escrow.com It's been affiliated with ebay for years. I have used it twice to sell a bike. The biggest drawback is the fee. But how it is split can be negotiated between the seller and buyer.

[rob1100r]

Gee, thats just swell ....The feedback system was desinged to protect both the sellers and the customers! I have done Ebay since the beginning here at work, going back to the time when there was no PayPal and you paid me with a Postal Money Order or a certified check! Many times the customers can be good, or just downright RETARTED, and the feedback system is what helps keep them HONEST...This goes for the seller as well..Way too many variables come into play...I have had buyers complain that the 'Red' guitar was't quite as red as in the picture.. Customers telling me I sent used items when I know they were as new as can be! The feedback system works as it is (or was). I have always left feedback for a buyer after I have received it since at that point I know where I (we) stand. The buyer needs to be satisfied, and a positve feedback is the best way to know of this. If there is a problem, often it can be worked out before the bad feedbacks are left...

[JohnBryer]

So when do they fix the ".01 for the item + $100 for S/H" sellers? Or the ones selling illegal copies of copyrighted material?

 

eBay has a lot of crap, and you just need to filter through it.

 

I just came across this post...I work for eBay in Trust in Safety in Salt Lake City.

 

The shipping issue should be taken care of since fees will now be based off final values of the merchandise, including shipping (at least that's my understanding).

 

The group that handles copyrights sits right next to me. I actually had one of my own auctions pulled a few weeks back because, unknown to me, a North Face jacket that I was trying to sell apparently is a clone. You can bet that this stuff is being worked on to clean things up.

 

[slight hijack]

Along those same lines... some of these professional e-bay sellers appear to create 'legitimate buyer profiles' and then use these profiles to bid on their own items to drive up the price of the item. What kind of controls does e-bay have in place for this kind of shenanigans (love that word)?

[/hijack]

 

I'm going to have to look into that one. Part of my responsibility is Account Security. I'll ask around on that one.

[NoHeat]

rob, I think retaliation by sellers is a bad thing, and I'm glad to see it go.

[rob1100r]

rob, I think retaliation by sellers is a bad thing, and I'm glad to see it go.

 

It has nothing to do with 'retalitaion' ... and regardless what people think the customer is NOT always right. The feedback has to do with protecting both the customer and the seller. I have retracted bids from prospective 'buyers' when I see some recent feedback on their profile that tells me they are going to be a PROBLEM! Often these are people that DON'T READ my terms in an auction. They will argue pricing on shipping and handling when a fixed rate is STATED in my auction that they won (and my shipping and handling BARELY even covers PayPal fees, final value fees and insertion fees, and the shipping itself). There are too many examples for me to go through...But the feedback IS important, to keep BOTH parties involved HONEST..A buyer under these new 'rules' can screw with a seller pretty good, and the seller has no means of protecting his/her Ebay status..I am sure as heck not saying that every Ebay seller is a good guy! If a seller is not keeping his end of the deal with poorly described items or flat out not giving you what you wanted, well then he should be 'negged' and if repeatedly screws buyers, removed from Ebay. There are many Ebay users who are 'No Longer a Member' due to either being a DISHONEST SELLER or a DISHONEST BUYER! It goes both ways...

[Ken H.]

rob, I think retaliation by sellers is a bad thing, and I'm glad to see it go.

It is indeed a bad thing, but is eliminating the ability to post any feedback about a buyer at all the proper solution? I don't think so.

 

 

Remember, the buyers primary responsibility is to pay for their purchase.

 

The sellers responsibilities are numerous. Properly represent the item, ship it properly & promptly, communicate, resolve issues when possible, etc.

 

So if the seller's only (or at least main) concern about the buyer is that they have paid for their purchase, why wouldn't a change work where as the seller has to post feedback about the buyer before a buyer could post feedback about the seller? The seller would have to be honest at that point in the transaction: 'Yes I got paid' or 'No I didn't'. And the buyer wouldn't have to fear about a retaliatory negative feedback if they felt they needed to post a negative about the seller once they got the item, attempted to resolve problems if needed, etc. All the rest of the dispute resolution, mutual withdraw, etc. could/would all stay in place.

 

With the upcoming change as currently proposed, ebay is throwing too much away about what makes the system work, just to solve the retaliation problem IMO.

[T__]

Something needs to be done here as the system as it is now is SERIOUSLY flawed.. The threat of seller retaliation is so great that the rating system is almost non unable..

 

Twice now I have received products from a seller & the products were NOT as advertised.. I gave both sellers a poor rating due to misrepresentation of the product & both times I was instantly hit with a bad rating myself even though I paid on both products within seconds of the auction closing & tried to work out a settlement with the seller through numerous E-Mails.. Both ultimately ended up with me being forced to retract my poor rating to get the seller to retract his.. Now what did that do to protect future buyers from that seller? NOTHING!

 

I’m not totally against a seller feed back system as, as you say there are some bad buyers also but the seller needs to be limited in what he can feed back & when.. AT the very least the seller should be allowed to give feedback directly to E-Bay & if E-Bay checks it out & finds a problem buyer then they (E-BAY) can post the negative feed back.. At least that will stop some of the retaliation feed back from sellers..

 

Twisty

[Gregori]

Ken - my 'escrow' idea pertained to feedback, not the actual sale. In effect, the seller and buyer would both have to leave feedback before either one was displayed. Perhaps it could be loaded with the caveat that any negative feedback will show up once the window to leave feedback has closed, but that leaves room for abuse as well.

 

But as pitiful as the feedback changes are, the fee increase is much worse. The base fees jump for 5.25% of the sale price to 8.75%! (That's on the first $25 of every sale - the increase on additional sales price ranges aren't quite as bad, but still unsavory.) The eBay stores, on the other hand, are having their base final fees raised from 10% to 12%. (One clever pundit notes that "even god only asks for 10%!")

 

But as the discussion is about feedback...

One of my pet peeves about feedback all along has been that it's not editable. I think it would be a better change if you could alter it after the initial feedback is left, perhaps with the *COMMENTS* unchanged, but the count (and flag) changed. There are certainly reasons to edit a bad to good (should the situation be resolved) or vice versa (a chargeback after feedback left, etc.)

 

Whatever... This is all just venting, as talking about it here won't change anything. I have a lot of time on eBay, and a reasonably significant feedback history. But these changes (feedback and big jump in fees) have been the final straw to convince me it's time to find another marketplace to do business in. As of my previous posting where I said I'd keep on doing business at eBay - well, I'd been blinded to the fee hike by the feedback discussion. (As was probably intended by putting both announcements out at the same time.)

 

Oh yeah - there is a grassroots effort to 'strike' on eBay between Feb 18 and 25. No buying, no selling, no listing. If the strike is widely known (and adhered to) maybe the new management realize that eBay is made up of members who want to be listened to, not simply bled. I fear that eBay has gotten to the point that dealing with them is like dealing with the government. The key difference being that I can (and will) take my business and money elsewhere.

I'm planning to participate in the strike, and have tailored my listing activity to accommodate this. And will likely continue thus after the 25th...

[T__]

Greg, to tell you truth I have been using Craigslist more & more lately.. No fees & many more local offerings so you can have a face to face with the seller.. So far I have been extremely happy with Craigslist.. Everything I have listed there has sold also..

 

Twisty

[Ken H.]

Ken - my 'escrow' idea pertained to feedback, not the actual sale.

Oh. Sorry. I didn't catch that.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

Greg, to tell you truth I have been using Craigslist more & more lately.. No fees & many more local offerings so you can have a face to face with the seller.. So far I have been extremely happy with Craigslist.. Everything I have listed there has sold also..

 

Twisty

 

Ayup. Sold a bunch of stuff locally last month. Craigslist is great.

[daveinatlanta]

While retaliatory feedbacks are a problem, this isn't the way to solve it; biasing the system to one side of the equation.

Hmmmm. Wonder which side of the equation has had the bias? I've experienced retaliatory feedback from the Ebay process that had *been* so biased in favor of sellers. This, despite the fact that I paid immediately. Guess that's not good enough for some sellers. Oh - minor detail - the seller auctioned something he did not have and then tried the bait and switch tactic. I did the dastardly and unforgivable sin of giving negative feedback to this fraud. The scammer simply retaliated with negative feedback. Ebay's arbitration process (don't recall what they call it) was useless. Bottom line -- as a result, I use Ebay rarely. While I'm somewhat surprised that Ebay would even consider this change, I'm also cynical enough to believe that it will only be temporary.

[JohnBryer]

While I'm somewhat surprised that Ebay would even consider this change, I'm also cynical enough to believe that it will only be temporary.

 

Don't count on it being temporary. There are many initiatives around improving the buyers experience. I think it's going to make the site a much better place to do business.

[steveknapp]

So John, what's your take on eBay for the "common man" in comparison to the power seller?

 

I've had pretty good luck treating it as a virtual garage sale of sorts for cleaning out my house of various "stuff". I'm by no means a pro seller, it's not a business for me, but it works. Having said that, I thought eBay was working to move away from sellers like myself and more towards being a front for existing businesses.

[JohnBryer]

I think that market is always going to be there. From what I see, the changes are happening to get bad sellers and bad buyers off of the site.

 

Without giving insider information, you'll notice that when you leave feedback for a seller, there are 4-5 ratings of the seller that it specifically says the seller can't see. Trust me that those ratings are being used and the bad sellers will have their items pushed back to pages further down in the list.

 

Also keep in mind that the changes towards fixed prices are there because that's where most of the products are being purchased from anyway.

 

NOTE: My points here are strictly my opinions. I've only worked there 6 months and I only know what I know so far.

[NoHeat]

why wouldn't a change work where as the seller has to post feedback about the buyer before a buyer could post feedback about the seller?

 

Yes, Ken, I think that would be a much better solution. There would be no retaliation by sellers, and buyers who don't pay would get bad ratings. That would better serve the interests of all honest people than either the old system or the new.

 

Why didn't eBay do it that way, I wonder. Can't be because it's difficult. In fact it would have been very easy for them to do: just change the website slightly so that it doesn't enable buyer feedback until the seller has given feedback.

[JohnBryer]

I wish I knew the answer to that one. I expected the change to be a blind system where you couldn't see the feedback until both parties had left feedback. To me, that would have made more sense.