BULLman Posted May 4, 2005 Share Posted May 4, 2005 Ok, just a quick reminder. Please only report major powertrain failures. Specifically, we are after hard-part failures of the clutch splines, transmission, driveshaft and rear drive. Even though failures of clutches, seals, swingarm bearings, etc. cause obvious grief, they are not what we're collecting data on. Also, when reporting a failure, make sure we get the following info: Model Year: Model (R1150RT, R1100GS, etc.): Last 5 digits of SN: Mileage at time of failure: Date of failure: Description of failure: And finally, please continue to keep discussion out of this thread. If you need to discuss something, either PM me or start a new thread. Thanks for all the responses so far! As we continue to collect data, the picture will continue to become sharper. You are going to remember us with the old 1150 engines and the even older 1100s aren't you? pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease Anything to report on your GS? YET? Link to comment
steve.foote Posted May 4, 2005 Author Share Posted May 4, 2005 Don't worry, Dan. I'm keeping up with this thread and Oilheads in general. Link to comment
jviss Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 Well, I got bitten by the powertrain failure bug on Sunday, 4/10 while riding in Rhode Island. Model Year: 2001 Model (R1150RT, R1100GS, etc.): R1100RT Last 5 digits of SN: 70030 Mileage at time of failure: 25,800 Date of failure: 4/10/2005 Description of failure: sudden loss of all power transmission to rear wheel accompanied by a loud noise "bang" and subsequent grinding/chattering noise (my son was following on his bike and heard the bang). The engine runs fine, but intermittently makes a screeching noise when idling in neutral, and more so when the clutch lever is pulled. With the motor off the rear wheel is easily turned with the transmission in any gear, with a rough grinding kind of feel. No power is transmitted to the rear wheel in any gear with the engine running. I have not yet had the bike torn down to learn the root cause (estimated 6 hours of labor), but I suspect an input shaft spline failure, or perhaps a broken transmission shaft (given the loud "bang"). I had it towed to Razee's in R.I. - left it there in the night. Nice folks, they are letting me store it there indoors for free. Not so nice was Rhode Island Towing's "Ray," who immediately refused to tow it unless I assumed any liability for damage he might cause, asked me to sign so he could get paid anyway, and told my roadside service provider that I had refused the tow. He was extremely rude, borderline violent. I think he may have been drinking. The next tow operator took more than 2 more hours to arrive. Failure cause confirmed - failure of clutch disk and transmission input shaft splines. Appears to be due to lack of lubrication, or incorrect lubrication at factory. Note that there was a very dry, powdery, very bright white color substance on the input shaft and clutch disk spline area, that appears to have flung off initially, since there are radial streaks of it on the diaphragm spring. The input shaft splines are worn out, meaning they are thinned out progressively towards the rear of the wear area such that the top profile of each spline is no longer rectangular but rather triangular, and the diameter of the spline area decrease towards the rear of the wear area instead of remaining constant. Interestingly, there is a completely different lubrication compund on the drive shaft splines, which is a grey colored, gooey, sticky material that appears to be a molybdenum-disulfide type spline lube. These splines look new. The U-joints are tight, like new. The final drive input seal is leaking. BMWNA declined to help in any way unless the bike was being repaired at a dealer, since only the dealer is a "trusted party" with regard to the bike's condition and history (direct quote). The extent of the help would probably be limited to parts. Since I'm doing this myself I'm apparently out of luck. Link to comment
Ralph Posted May 22, 2005 Share Posted May 22, 2005 2003 1150 RT ZE89077 29,830 it was repaired, noticed at 27000 mi. replaced clutch/ input shaft splines due to dry & wear, trans housing, and related bearings. Repaired under factory warranty. Link to comment
cgdR Posted May 29, 2005 Share Posted May 29, 2005 Model Year: 2002 Model (R1150RT, R1100GS, etc.): R1150R Last 5 digits of SN: 45211 Mileage at time of failure: 42,750 Date of failure: May 05 Description of failure: FD crown bearing. Rear wheel felt rough when spun by hand. Upon disassembly, there were some metal flakes on the magnetic drain plug, one ball (out of 17) was severely pitted, and part of the outer race was pitted. Total cost of repair: $110. All other bearings, gears, and seals looked like new and were not replaced. Length of repair: about 3 hours. This bearing could probably have gone another 1000 miles or more before disintegrating, slashing the seal, and causing a disatrous end of trip. I believe that catastrophic FD failures might be avoided with occasional checks: just spin the rear wheel and see if there is any roughness. Link to comment
jviss Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Well, I got bitten by the powertrain failure bug on Sunday, 4/10 while riding in Rhode Island. Model Year: 2001 Model (R1150RT, R1100GS, etc.): R1100RT Last 5 digits of SN: 70030 Mileage at time of failure: 25,800 Date of failure: 4/10/2005 Description of failure: sudden loss of all power transmission to rear wheel accompanied by a loud noise "bang" and subsequent grinding/chattering noise (my son was following on his bike and heard the bang). The engine runs fine, but intermittently makes a screeching noise when idling in neutral, and more so when the clutch lever is pulled. With the motor off the rear wheel is easily turned with the transmission in any gear, with a rough grinding kind of feel. No power is transmitted to the rear wheel in any gear with the engine running. I have not yet had the bike torn down to learn the root cause (estimated 6 hours of labor), but I suspect an input shaft spline failure, or perhaps a broken transmission shaft (given the loud "bang"). I had it towed to Razee's in R.I. - left it there in the night. Nice folks, they are letting me store it there indoors for free. Not so nice was Rhode Island Towing's "Ray," who immediately refused to tow it unless I assumed any liability for damage he might cause, asked me to sign so he could get paid anyway, and told my roadside service provider that I had refused the tow. He was extremely rude, borderline violent. I think he may have been drinking. The next tow operator took more than 2 more hours to arrive. Failure cause confirmed - failure of clutch disk and transmission input shaft splines. Appears to be due to lack of lubrication, or incorrect lubrication at factory. Note that there was a very dry, powdery, very bright white color substance on the input shaft and clutch disk spline area, that appears to have flung off initially, since there are radial streaks of it on the diaphragm spring. The input shaft splines are worn out, meaning they are thinned out progressively towards the rear of the wear area such that the top profile of each spline is no longer rectangular but rather triangular, and the diameter of the spline area decrease towards the rear of the wear area instead of remaining constant. Interestingly, there is a completely different lubrication compund on the drive shaft splines, which is a grey colored, gooey, sticky material that appears to be a molybdenum-disulfide type spline lube. These splines look new. The U-joints are tight, like new. The final drive input seal is leaking. BMWNA declined to help in any way unless the bike was being repaired at a dealer, since only the dealer is a "trusted party" with regard to the bike's condition and history (direct quote). The extent of the help would probably be limited to parts. Since I'm doing this myself I'm apparently out of luck. Update - Wagner BMW in Shrewsbury, MA is helping to get support from BMW on this - hats off to them! Stay tuned. jv Link to comment
jrparodi Posted May 30, 2005 Share Posted May 30, 2005 Model Year: 2002 Model (R1150RT, R1100GS, etc.): R1150RT Last 5 digits of SN: 87742 Mileage at time of failure: 47800 Date of failure: July 8, 2004 Description of failure: Final Drive Link to comment
SageRider Posted June 1, 2005 Share Posted June 1, 2005 Model Year: 1999 Model (R1150RT, R1100GS, etc.): R1100-RT Last 5 digits of SN: 65298 Mileage at time of failure: 18,866 Date of failure: Sep 2000 Description of failure: Seal leak complaint resulted in final drive crown bearing play detected during 18K service. Crown bearing replaced prior to failure. Link to comment
tmgs Posted July 3, 2005 Share Posted July 3, 2005 Model Year: 2002 Model (R1150RT, R1100GS, etc.): R1150RT Last 5 digits of SN: ze86913 Mileage at time of failure: 1st failure - 17k miles , input shaft slines and other damaga internal in trans, tranny replaced with new one from BMW 2nd failure 36k miles almost a year later - input shaft bearing and seal failure 3rd failure 56k miles, input shaft splines gone again and other internal damaga, trans is getting replaced again ! going to be over 3k dollars this time!!! Date of failure: 1st failure - april 2003, 2nd failure June 2004, third failure June 2005 Description of failure: input shaft problems all three times new trans 1st time, repaired 2nd time getting replaced again third time! YES I'm pissed and done with BMW's if they refuse to step up to the plate and take care of this now. Tom (just had to add that comment) Link to comment
scross Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Model Year: 2000 Model R1100RT Last 5 digits of SN: Mileage at time of failure: 64,000 Date of failure:10/05 Description of failure: Input shaft failure, damaged clutch plate. Resulted in a new transmission and clutch for $3,500. Ouch. My enthusiasm for the brand has suffered a serious blow. Link to comment
fatbob Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 YES I'm pissed and done with BMW's if they refuse to step up to the plate and take care of this now. Tom (just had to add that comment) Tom: I don't think anybody could blame you for being pissed, that's a lot of grief for one bike! Bob Link to comment
leikam Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Model Year: 1998 Model (R1150RT, R1100GS, etc.): R1100RT-P Last 5 digits of SN: ?? Mileage at time of failure: 57,002 Date of failure: Oct 3, 2005 Description of failure: splines worn to the point of failure. Link to comment
Eschelon1 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 2005 R1150RT VIN: 96045* MILEAGE: 1,250 May 2005 Rubber bushing inside two piece driveshaft stripped out. Replaced under warranty by A&S Link to comment
Jim VonBaden Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 1999 GS Final drive bearings gave out at 51K miles, but only 8K miles on the current FD. Jim Link to comment
beemerman2k Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Model (R1150RT, R1100GS, etc.): R1100RT Last 5 digits of SN: (VIN) 68770 Mileage at time of failure: 35,000 Date of failure: Fall 2002 Description of failure: NO FAILURE! I had difficulty downshifting to 3rd and 2nd. Something had to be lubed which entailed significant work by dealer. BMWNA and my dealer ate all the costs. Well, at 70,000 miles, my input shaft finally went. That, a new clutch, and some other parts totalled to about $2K by a local mechanic. My faith in the brand hasn't been shaken. If anything, it's stronger because now I know the signs of a failing transmission -- resistance when downshifting. If you experience a sticky shifter, get it lubed NOW! Link to comment
Rich06FJR1300 Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 2002 R1150RT 31,960 miles vin: 86091 date of failure: returning from my trip from the RA rally, October 10th, 2005 Lost clutch release (i know not a critical failure) however, upon getting home thankfully...looked at the final drive and saw the oil oozing out of the inner seal. So the bearing is toast but made it home before it collapsed altogether. Having my dealer pick it up, bike is out of warranty but dealer will do a tear down to see how bad this is and the clutch area. Writing a letter to BMW NA. Link to comment
tmgs Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Gee i never did do a update on this did I, anyhow thanks to BMW of Atlanta we were taken care of, they showed BMW NA that this was not due to neglect or abuse and it was due more to inmporper installation the last time, That dealer went all out to help us on our tranny, it took time but they got it taken care of, we have a new trans at bmw's expense, never have I had a dealer go to bat like they did, and I didn;t even buy our bikes there, but I buy everything from them I poossibly can. Tom Link to comment
donhallman Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 I have not had a failure (02 1150rt, 28K), but this thread has gotten me worried. Does a spline lube need to be done on 1150's, how often?, prevention for FD failures?, newby, so any input is appreciated. Link to comment
tmgs Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 According to what I have heard and read it;s a very good idea to do it about every 40-50k, a tech tolds me at one time BMW recomended that for a service interval, how true that is I'm not sure the ibmwr.org list has had many discussions on that Link to comment
beemerman2k Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 According to what I have heard and read it;s a very good idea to do it about every 40-50k, a tech tolds me at one time BMW recomended that for a service interval, how true that is I'm not sure the ibmwr.org list has had many discussions on that I would agree, lube the input shaft every 50K or so OR if you experience resistence when downshifting to 2nd or 3rd gear. That's a sure sign that it's lube time. Fail to do this and your input shaft will unexpectedly fail. My bike exhibited resistance to downshifting for 10K miles before my input shaft went. So far, my final drive has been fine over the 77K miles I've owned my bike. Link to comment
SunZmSpark Posted October 14, 2005 Share Posted October 14, 2005 Model Year: 1999 Model: R1100RT Last 5 digits of SN: 65059 Mileage at time of failure: 28,500 Date of failure: 09/05/05 Description of failure: Final drive bearing failure. Link to comment
steve.foote Posted October 15, 2005 Author Share Posted October 15, 2005 Guys, I appreciate your comments and discussion, but please adhere to the original purpose of this thread. I'll be updating the stats this weekend. I have been following the various engine / clutch / transmission / drive shaft / rear drive failure threads and have become interested in what kind of correlation there may be within the manufacturing lineage. My specific intent is to collect information that may become useful. THIS IS NOT INTENDED TO BECOME A DISCUSSION THREAD. If you want to discuss this thread, please start another one. As this thread fills out, I'll compile the info gathered for better analysis. Please respond only if you have had a major powertrain failure related to the engine, clutch, transmission, drive shaft or rear drive with the following info: Model Year: Model (R1150RT, R1100GS, etc.): Last 5 digits of SN: Mileage at time of failure: Date of failure: Description of failure: Thanks for your participation. With roughly 7,500 members, we may be able to zero in on some batch issues regarding the various failures experienced here. Thanks. Link to comment
Bill Dennes Posted October 15, 2005 Share Posted October 15, 2005 2002 (9/91 build date) R1150RT 87343 61,000 July, 2005 Took apart to do spline inspection/lube. Found out I was too late. Input shaft and clutch plate splines were no more. Weighed having tranny rebuilt, but believed the "misaligned casings" theory at the time so was reluctant to set up for a repeat failure. Therefore I installed a "real" 6-speed tranny (23 00 7 677 012) which could still be bought from Chicago BMW for "only" $1,595 at that time. Also replaced clutch plate and clutch slave cylinder which was leaking a little. Ouch! Anyway I saved the $1,000 labor bill. Link to comment
Steve Kolenda Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Model Year: 2000 Model: R1100RT Last 5 digits of SN: 69401 Mileage at time of failure: 81,000 Date of failure: 07/05 Description of failure: Large ball bearing in final drive failed. Link to comment
flyingreg Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 Model Year: 2004 Model (R1150RT, R1100GS, etc.): R1150RT Last 5 digits of SN: 94362 Mileage at time of failure: 18229 Date of failure: 9-03-05 Description of failure: Transmission - Suspect auxilliary shaft bearing failed. Failed bearing broke up causing remaining bearings in transmission to fail. Metal in oil caused gear teeth to break, resulting in catastrophic failure. BMW SERVICE PHOTOS Link to comment
Kirbo40 Posted October 16, 2005 Share Posted October 16, 2005 1998 R1100RT VIN: 63991 Mileage: 55,750 Oct. 10,2005 Not torn down yet, but big metal chunks in tranny oil, noisy in gear like a growling noise, quits when clutch is pulled in in neutral. Suspect at least input shaft bearing is toast. Link to comment
Silvereagle Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Model year: 2002 Model: R1150RT Last 5 digits of SN: 86430 Milage at failure: 35900 Date of failure: 04/11/05 Description of failure: Clutch to input shaft spline failure Link to comment
2wheelterry Posted October 23, 2006 Share Posted October 23, 2006 Model year: 2002 Model: R1150RT Last 5 digits of SN: 87107 Milage at failure: 30,765 Date of failure: 10/14/06 Description of failure: Clutch to input shaft spline failure Link to comment
WillieJ Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Transmission input shaft splines. '02 R1150GS VIN: ZE53518 Date: Jan. 21, 2007 Mileage: 12839 Link to comment
skyskier Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 2000 R1100RT-P 68527 73,000 01/05/2007 Lost 1st gear, large pieces of metal in trans. Raplaced transmission. Link to comment
litigator Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Model Year:2002 Model R1150RT Last 5 digits of SN:87309 Mileage at time of failure:35,000 Date of failure:4/06 Description of failure: Clutch slave cylinder needed to be replaced Link to comment
Amos Posted March 23, 2007 Share Posted March 23, 2007 (^ Rt input shaft rear bearing 86,000 miles 99 RT Vin 65378 miles 58695 input shaft and clutch etc 2003 1150 RT is makeing all the same noises at 38k. When running after warm up and ride. Noise from clutch area. Pull in clutch lever and unit gets quite. This is about the same as 99. So its only a time thing. Or luck. Link to comment
Mr. Frank Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Did all of this data ever get crunched? Link to comment
SWB Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Transmission Failure: ==================== Model Year: 2001 Model: R1100RT-P Last 5 digits of SN: 69921 Production batch: M K11 ohne R1100RT USA 20001000 Prod. Code: 0418, batch ID: 48862 Prod. Month: 10/2000 Mileage at time of failure: 57,000 miles Date of failure: 11/07 Transmission & clutch: Intermediate gear assembly, 1 fork, some gear goes damaged; BMW claimed it was a total loss. Link to comment
steve.foote Posted March 24, 2007 Author Share Posted March 24, 2007 Did all of this data ever get crunched? The data comes in spurts, and I add them to the master list now and then. I'll post some updated stats in the coming week. Link to comment
Marty Hill Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Go for it Steve. Why just work 20 hours a day? Link to comment
jimmyz1234 Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 Model Year: 2002 Model (R1150RT, R1100GS, etc.): R1150RT Last 5 digits of SN: 86263 Mileage at time of failure: 75000. Date of failure: 5/1/07 Description of failure: Cruising at 65 mph, heard a pop, then a grinding noise. Lost all connection between engine and the real wheel, regardless of gear. Haven't torn it down yet but is almost certainly the transmission input shaft (BMW mechanic concurs). This is the same bike reported earlier when I replaced the shaft at 50000 miles because it was somewhat (maybe 25%) worn. I would be very interested in the summary of this survey, although it doesn't tell us anything about the rate of failure because there's no data on bikes which have not failed. Link to comment
AndyS Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 How are these stats looking now? Andy Link to comment
steve.foote Posted May 15, 2007 Author Share Posted May 15, 2007 Ok, the MPFS is now officially updated. Interesting trends are beginning to form. The discussion thread and findings can be found here. Please stick with the intent of the quote below and keep the discussion out of this thread. Thanks. I have been following the various engine / clutch / transmission / drive shaft / rear drive failure threads and have become interested in what kind of correlation there may be within the manufacturing lineage. My specific intent is to collect information that may become useful. THIS IS NOT INTENDED TO BECOME A DISCUSSION THREAD. If you want to discuss this thread, please start another one. As this thread fills out, I'll compile the info gathered for better analysis. Please respond only if you have had a major powertrain failure related to the engine, clutch, transmission, drive shaft or rear drive with the following info: Model Year: Model (R1150RT, R1100GS, etc.): Last 5 digits of SN: Mileage at time of failure: Date of failure: Description of failure: Thanks for your participation. With roughly 14,000 members, we may be able to zero in on some batch issues regarding the various failures experienced here. Link to comment
Indy Bill Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Model Year: 2003 Model (R1150RT, R1100GS, etc.): RT Last 5 digits of SN: I keep forgetting to look it up Mileage at time of failure: 28K Date of failure: 10/2005 Description of failure: Transmission Input shaft seal leak which contaminated the clutch. Replaced seal and clutch under warranty. When the dealer got it apart they had mentioned the splines were a little dry. Link to comment
smiller Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 I just want to say thanks for taking this effort on Steve. Regardless of whether this represents an ideal accurate sampling or not the information so far has been very interesting. The most notable thing to me is that the cluster around specific build dates would seem to suggest that the spline/final drive issues are more related to assembly rather than design issues. Link to comment
tjsven Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 2002 R1150RT 85638 52,000 05/2006 Crown Bearing in FD replaced... Clutch Slave rebuilt after leaking Link to comment
samnt650 Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 1999 R1100RT 36000 miles - clutch lever (at transmission) snapped 43000 miles - Camshaft snapped (thank god no bent valves) Link to comment
twilmotte Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 Steve, Did you ever publish the results of your power train survey? Link to comment
steve.foote Posted May 22, 2007 Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 Steve, Did you ever publish the results of your power train survey? Yep. Over here. Link to comment
steve404 Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Model Year:2002 Model R1150RT Last 5 digits of SN:86863 Mileage at time of failure:70,000 Date of failure:5/06 Description of failure: Gearbox boiled. Spline failure imminent. Link to comment
bobsdog Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Model year 1999 Model R1100RT Last 5 digits of SN.20555 Mileage at time of failure. 79,000 Date of failure. Nov 2005 Description of failure. Gearbox would 'snatch' as if engine was misfiring violently. Would only occur intermitently, and only in 2nd gear. Bike was maintained regardless of cost via BMW main dealer. But when I removed gearbox, oil was totally emulsified. So this problem was due to very poor maintenance. Main dealers? Link to comment
upfisk Posted May 27, 2007 Share Posted May 27, 2007 Model Year:1996 Model (R1150RT, R1100GS, etc.):R1100RT Last 5 digits of SN:41324 Mileage at time of failure: slightly less than 24,000 Date of failure:Sept 2006 Description of failure: skipping in and out of 3rd gear when shifting either up or down. Never bothered rebuilding the bad transmission, just bought a new one from BMW and had it installed. Link to comment
JBryant Posted May 28, 2007 Share Posted May 28, 2007 Model Year: 2003 Model: R1150RT Last 5 Digits of VIN: 55020 Mileage: 63,142 Date of Failure: May 21, 2007 Description of Failure: Input Shaft Bearing. This is just an assumption based on some sound advice. Have dropped bike off with service dealer so will update once confirmed. Transmission making noise while in neutral but once clutch is pulled the noise stops. Leaking gear oil. Link to comment
Sheepherder Posted May 30, 2007 Share Posted May 30, 2007 Model Year:1997 Model r1100 rt Last 5 digits of SN:62150 Mileage at time of failure:37614 miles Date of failure: June 7 2006 Description of failure: plastic cam chain tensioners failed required complete tear down Expensive. Link to comment
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