SF Bay Area lane splitting gets bad press

[upflying]

After opening the link, open the story that is titled, "Between the Lanes".

http://www.kcbs.com/pages/2846.php

I'm worried stuff like this will eventually mean the end of legal lane sharing in California.

[ghaverkamp]

Just about what you'd expect from a hard-hitting local news source.

 

I especially loved how they trotted out the traffic reporter, who had no numbers ("there have definitely been more motorcycle accidents") or details about the accidents as proof that it's an issue.

[Little Joe]

Great report on lane splitting. Excellent use of non-attributed statistics. Emphasis on objective, non-inflammatory commentary ("roaring", "militant"). And who can argue with the assertion that careful, traffic-watching "cyclists" (sic) do not split lanes?

 

Thanks, KCBS, for fanning the flames, and for using only hot air to do it.

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

Just about what you'd expect from a hard-hitting local news source.

 

I especially loved how they trotted out the traffic reporter, who had no numbers ("there have definitely been more motorcycle accidents") or details about the accidents as proof that it's an issue.

 

Considering that the CHP does not collect "lane sharing" accident data, there is no way to really know where the accidents are happening.

[mbelectric]

I have to agree....any report is a good report...even if it comes from KCBS..

 

exposure and driver education is what we need...

 

MB>

[keithb]

It is the typical reporter's media template. Stir up a bunch of sh*t and then leave it for someone else to clean it up or give the true and accurate account later after everyone is roiled.

[bimmers]

allegations are enough esp. in the Bay area, just ban the motorcycles all together over there. They could be lane splitting even when just changing lanes, prove you weren't. (Darwin's work is made impossible).

[ghaverkamp]

allegations are enough esp. in the Bay area, just ban the motorcycles all together over there. They could be lane splitting even when just changing lanes, prove you weren't. (Darwin's work is made impossible).

 

Huh?

[Stir]

I wrote the reporter a friendly note. He responded. Said he'd evidently stirred things up. I told him that his report did not correspond to the statistics. He said that the DMV hand book says it is unsafe. Told him that it was probably written by someone who did not ride. Also told him that 90% of riders were unlicensed. I told him to attack that problem first and then let's look at the accident rate.

[Twisties]

Just about what you'd expect from a hard-hitting local news source.

 

I especially loved how they trotted out the traffic reporter, who had no numbers ("there have definitely been more motorcycle accidents") or details about the accidents as proof that it's an issue.

 

Considering that the CHP does not collect "lane sharing" accident data, there is no way to really know where the accidents are happening.

 

Well, we should be able to get state by state data. Since only CA allows LS, we can presume that most wrecks in other states are not LS related. Then if CA has a higher accident rate than the other states, you can presume that LS is a possible cause of the difference. Doesn't prove anything... but on the other hand if the accident rate is similar to that in other states, it would suggest that LS is not a huge problem anyway...

 

Unfortunately I did not locate any state by state stats in a short search.

[milesandmiles]

Just finished a road trip down the Pacific Coast Hwy. Came back up 101 and got stuck in afternoon San Jose rush hour. I did some lane splitting with my wife close on my 6, but at about 15-20 mph. About as fast as I could comfortably react to unexpected car maneuvers. It was perfectly safe and I made a whole lot better time than the cages. That said, some local crotch rocket rips by me lane splitting at probably 45+ mph. One no-notice lane change by one of those 10,000 impatient cars would have killed this kid. Jeez

[MotorinLA]

Well, we should be able to get state by state data. Since only CA allows LS, we can presume that most wrecks in other states are not LS related. Then if CA has a higher accident rate than the other states, you can presume that LS is a possible cause of the difference. Doesn't prove anything... but on the other hand if the accident rate is similar to that in other states, it would suggest that LS is not a huge problem anyway...

 

Unfortunately I did not locate any state by state stats in a short search.

 

"Presume" is like "assume" with a silent a$$...

 

You can't presume anything by comparing data from different states, since the variables from state to state are too numerous to count.

 

If I was to guess, however, I'd say that collisions due to splitting traffic only make up a small portion of the total number of collisions involving motorcyclists. Right of way violations (driver errors) and single vehicle collisions (rider errors) are most likely more common causes of motorcycle injury/fatality collisions (only types of collisions which mandate a police report in CA) than lane splitting.

[bvaughan]

Doesn't prove anything... but on the other hand if the accident rate is similar to that in other states, it would suggest that LS is not a huge problem anyway...

according to the feds 91% of motorcycle/car crashes are not on the freeway. check it out at paragraph 3.2.4. bottom line, lane splitting is not a statistically significant source of motorcycle accidents.

 

as to speeding, 73% of the motorcyclists killed in the study period, 2005, were not speeding . see para. 3.2.12 & table 18. plenty additional interesting stats if you wade through the report.

 

all in all, if you want to be safe, ride only on the interstate, in the country, on weekdays, be glad you're a geezer, and get a sex change

[russell_bynum]

Well, we should be able to get state by state data. Since only CA allows LS, we can presume that most wrecks in other states are not LS related. Then if CA has a higher accident rate than the other states, you can presume that LS is a possible cause of the difference. Doesn't prove anything... but on the other hand if the accident rate is similar to that in other states, it would suggest that LS is not a huge problem anyway...

 

Not really...there's lots of other factors at work...traffic density, average miles traveled per rider, percentage of bikes used for commuting, etc.

[Little Joe]

If I was to guess, however, I'd say that collisions due to splitting traffic only make up a small portion of the total number of collisions involving motorcyclists. Right of way violations (driver errors) and single vehicle collisions (rider errors) are most likely more common causes of motorcycle injury/fatality collisions (only types of collisions which mandate a police report in CA) than lane splitting.

 

Yours (and your brethren's) opinions are the ones the reporter should have sought, instead of his "militant" lane-splitting friend.

[Quinn]

While you're gathering statistics, you might want to consider the accident rate for cars in CA vs. other states. It might just be more dangerous to drive out there than it is in the sane parts of the US.

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

Well, we should be able to get state by state data. Since only CA allows LS, we can presume that most wrecks in other states are not LS related. Then if CA has a higher accident rate than the other states, you can presume that LS is a possible cause of the difference. Doesn't prove anything... but on the other hand if the accident rate is similar to that in other states, it would suggest that LS is not a huge problem anyway...

 

Unfortunately I did not locate any state by state stats in a short search.

 

Not long ago one of the local riders spent some time muddling through some nationwide statistics. He found that accident rates were about the same (per 1000 licensed riders) in all states. Death rates were higher in states where helmets were not mandatory, and in CA, where it's legal to filter to the front and lane share, there were significantly less deaths from rear-end incidents than all other states (it was something drastic, like 30%)

 

I'll see if I can find a link to that thread.

 

And no, I don't have a link to the data source.

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

motorcycle injury/fatality collisions (only types of collisions which mandate a police report in CA) than lane splitting.

 

If I'm not mistaken ANY injury accident requires a police report, and any accident where there is more than $500 worth of damage.

[Bill_Walker]

While you're gathering statistics, you might want to consider the accident rate for cars in CA vs. other states. It might just be more dangerous to drive out there than it is in the sane parts of the US.

 

If so, it's probably due to all those accidents that are caused by those darned lane-splitting bikers!

[texasaggie97]

I am from Texas and I have to say that I really love California's driving laws. Allowing motorcycle to split lanes hopefully encourages people to ride bike instead of sitting in a cage reading, talking, or just mad because they are stuck in traffic. I think that people might enjoy their morning commute if they stop to enjoy that experience. I really think that if we were really worried about the people riding scooters then we should drive safer and encourage people to save gas, and get to work quicker because that is what help traffic and the saves this fine planet.

I will agree that there are many rider that are stupid in their riding habits, but there is a little thing call Darwinism that help out in this area. I work in higher education and I see it all the time a few bad eggs spoil it for everyone. Ok I will get off my soap box I just feel we think about things too much.

Just my 100 cents worth.

[Rags]

Statistics aside... Locally, there have been a noticeably higher rate of lane splitting accidents being mentioned in news traffic reports.

 

Its simple & easy to blame lane splitting as a cause. We can stop all traffic accidents by banning cars and drivers. So??

 

As one who does split - it gives me an intensive look at drivers not paying attention and heightens my attention.

 

Most drivers are real civilized about it. Europeans do it a lot more than we do.

 

I hope Texas allows it, it was up for a vote.

 

But alas, most states are very provincial. Hmm I wonder if that poster from GA knows what that means.

[MotorinLA]

motorcycle injury/fatality collisions (only types of collisions which mandate a police report in CA) than lane splitting.

 

If I'm not mistaken ANY injury accident requires a police report, and any accident where there is more than $500 worth of damage.

 

Actually, the only traffic collisions (note that there are no "accidents", only "collisions", as the word "accident" implies that nobody is at fault...) that are mandated to be documented on a Police Report (actually it is a California Highway Patrol statewide form, which is very creatively named a "CHP 555 form" ) are collisions resulting in injury or a fatality. The dollar amount is inconsequential. You may be thinking of the SR-1 form which is a DMV form. All drivers in California that are involved in a traffic collision resulting in damage in excess of $750.00 are required to file an SR-1 form (a DMV traffic collision form) with the DMV following that collision. This form has nothing to do with the Police.[/b]

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

motorcycle injury/fatality collisions (only types of collisions which mandate a police report in CA) than lane splitting.

 

If I'm not mistaken ANY injury accident requires a police report, and any accident where there is more than $500 worth of damage.

 

Actually, the only traffic collisions (note that there are no "accidents", only "collisions", as the word "accident" implies that nobody is at fault...) that are mandated to be documented on a Police Report (actually it is a California Highway Patrol statewide form, which is very creatively named a "CHP 555 form" ) are collisions resulting in injury or a fatality. The dollar amount is inconsequential. You may be thinking of the SR-1 form which is a DMV form. All drivers in California that are involved in a traffic collision resulting in damage in excess of $750.00 are required to file an SR-1 form (a DMV traffic collision form) with the DMV following that collision. This form has nothing to do with the Police.[/b]

 

Got it.

[MAT2CHI]

I was listening to KCBS radio today and they were trying to drum up that motorcycles are hurting themselves with a bunch of statistics and then they interviewed a CHP spokesman and asked him if the upswing in accidents were due to lane splitting. He said "NO, they're probably due to a lot of people riding again that haven't riden in twenty years" and suggested they take a MSF refresher rider course. When asked about people getting hurt lane splitting he said something to the effect that motorcyclists are more likely to get hurt by being run over when they go down on the freeway by cars that are following too closely. All in all it was a good interview and the CHP spokesman did not let himself get sucked into the motorcycle bashing that KCBS was hoping for. He even said he started riding again after a long layoff.

[mbelectric]

Interesting to hear that the CHP officer had noted the "re-entry" rider situation.

 

All in all, a better sounding interview than the first...perhaps a little pressure by local cyclists had provided some education to the reporter?

 

Does anyone here know the MSF stance on splitting, and education to riders thereof? Do they in fact recognize it?

 

BTW, lanesplitting is a reality for me...I split (3) heavy sections on my weekly commute of 100 miles, 2 1/2 hours Friday nites...

 

Didn't see anyone last Friday....where were all the motorcycles???

 

Clear,mostly dry, cool.

 

MB>

[MAT2CHI]

My brother in law took the MSF rider course when he started riding a couple years ago and he said they don't talk about it or endorse it. I'm sure they are very careful about not putting lane splitting ideas in new riders heads. I've been riding street bikes since 1972 and although I split lanes when I need to, I still cringe when I'm in a car and see someone being stupid and doing it unsafe.

[skinny_tom (aka boney)]

Mike Brown, BMOC of CHP was on the Ronn Owens talk show this morning. (KGO AM810)

 

There's always a caller that gripes about lane sharing and he pretty much always comes back with the usual; "It's here to stay." Legal, and get used to it.

[russell_bynum]

My brother in law took the MSF rider course when he started riding a couple years ago and he said they don't talk about it or endorse it. I'm sure they are very careful about not putting lane splitting ideas in new riders heads. I've been riding street bikes since 1972 and although I split lanes when I need to, I still cringe when I'm in a car and see someone being stupid and doing it unsafe.

 

Right...that's no suprising at all. MSF focuses on VERY basic skills. When you leave the MSF class, you are qualified to ride a motorcycle at 10mph in an empty parking lot...and very little else. Lane splitting is way to advanced to expect MSF to teach it, or even endorse it.

[MAT2CHI]

It's kind of funny you say that because a coworker (women) took the course after her boyfriend sold her one of his old bikes - a Honda NightHawk 450 - and bought a helmet, gloves, jacket, boots, pretty much all the gear and then chickened out about actually riding in traffic. I'd meet her after work at a lightly used parking lot next door to her house while she practiced, and offered her advice and encouragement, but she decided she didn't have the intestinal fortitude to ride in traffic so she had her boyfriend sell her bike. After all she went through to learn and get her motorcycle license and then just quit. I started at ten and spent the first ten years learning to ride in the dirt before I ever bought a street bike.

[russell_bynum]

It's kind of funny you say that because a coworker (women) took the course after her boyfriend sold her one of his old bikes - a Honda NightHawk 450 - and bought a helmet, gloves, jacket, boots, pretty much all the gear and then chickened out about actually riding in traffic. I'd meet her after work at a lightly used parking lot next door to her house while she practiced, and offered her advice and encouragement, but she decided she didn't have the intestinal fortitude to ride in traffic so she had her boyfriend sell her bike. After all she went through to learn and get her motorcycle license and then just quit. I started at ten and spent the first ten years learning to ride in the dirt before I ever bought a street bike.

 

I had a friend at work in the exact same situation, with the same outcome.

 

The bottom line is, this thing isn't for everyone, and if you're smart, you understand that it really isn't something you can do half-assed. You also have to be honest with yourself about your personal limitations. She realized that she didn't have the coordination and the situational awareness, and she didn't have the time to really immerse herself in it to learn what she needed to learn. She sold the bike for what she paid for it (always buy used), and kept the gear for when she rides on the back of friend's bikes.

[MAT2CHI]

She did get nice gear out of it, instead of using her boyfriends old stuff that didn't fit her very well, but I was sorry that she just gave up. We work together at a local city public works department and she can climb a tree like a monkey when we do tree work. She has her commercial class B drivers license and can operate any equipment in our city corporation yard and up to then has not been afraid to try anything. But you're right about her convincing herself that she just wasn't cut out for it. I also work with grown men that can't believe I'm foolish enough to ride to work everyday, but some of these guys still smoke and eat at Mac Donald's everyday so who's to say what's more dangerous. I tell them "everybody dies, but not everybody lives" and that usually makes them roll their eyes and stop talking about it.

[russell_bynum]

I tell them "everybody dies, but not everybody lives" and that usually makes them roll their eyes and stop talking about it.

 

Yep. It was as true in Shakespeare's day as is is now.

[MAT2CHI]

I tell them "everybody dies, but not everybody lives" and that usually makes them roll their eyes and stop talking about it.

 

Yep. It was as true in Shakespeare's day as is is now.

 

Did Shakespeare ride too?

[russell_bynum]

I tell them "everybody dies, but not everybody lives" and that usually makes them roll their eyes and stop talking about it.

 

Yep. It was as true in Shakespeare's day as is is now.

 

Did Shakespeare ride too?

 

It must be true...I read it on the internet!

[bvaughan]

I tell them "everybody dies, but not everybody lives" and that usually makes them roll their eyes and stop talking about it. Yep. It was as true in Shakespeare's day as is is now.

 

Did Shakespeare ride too?

no, but mad max did, and he's the source of the quote channeling for william wallace, who preceded the bard by two centuries.

[Baba_ORiley]

My brother in law took the MSF rider course when he started riding a couple years ago and he said they don't talk about it or endorse it. I'm sure they are very careful about not putting lane splitting ideas in new riders heads.

 

It could also be because there's one MSF Basic Rider course for the entire country and lane splitting is not illegal in only one state.

 

 

 

.

[Stir]

It's kind of funny you say that because a coworker (women) took the course after her boyfriend sold her one of his old bikes - a Honda NightHawk 450 - and bought a helmet, gloves, jacket, boots, pretty much all the gear and then chickened out about actually riding in traffic. I'd meet her after work at a lightly used parking lot next door to her house while she practiced, and offered her advice and encouragement, but she decided she didn't have the intestinal fortitude to ride in traffic so she had her boyfriend sell her bike. After all she went through to learn and get her motorcycle license and then just quit. I started at ten and spent the first ten years learning to ride in the dirt before I ever bought a street bike.

 

I had a friend at work in the exact same situation, with the same outcome.

 

The bottom line is, this thing isn't for everyone, and if you're smart, you understand that it really isn't something you can do half-assed. You also have to be honest with yourself about your personal limitations. She realized that she didn't have the coordination and the situational awareness, and she didn't have the time to really immerse herself in it to learn what she needed to learn. She sold the bike for what she paid for it (always buy used), and kept the gear for when she rides on the back of friend's bikes.

 

AMEN Russell!!!!

 

My ex, MSF, bike, gear and after 51 miles on the bike decided it wasn't for her. No problem with me. You just can't know until you try and if it doesn't work, then you definately should not be doing this.

 

I hit a patch of sand in front of UTC the other day. I was sliding sideway on the GT. Anyone with less experience would have gone done. I don't think I even puckered.

 

Side note: There was a car load of of college coeds behind me and I could see the look of amazement in their faces. I just gave them the "hows it going nod." About 15 mintues later though, I was thinking..."Oooo, that would have been expensive."