utube lanesplit crash

[bvaughan]

short clip of a small truck taking out a splitter, seen from the bike here. query, how many things did the splitter do wrong?

[DaveC]

Going too fast to allow for unexpected car movements.

Not anticipating a car might try to squeeze into the gap ahead of the truck.

 

I might add that the truck was cutting too close in front of the semi truck. If the semi driver needed to stop quickly, there would not be enough room to avoid hitting the small truck that just jumped in front of him.

[SageRider]

Got past the GC that was holding him up. Dropped his concentration and over accelerated. Going to fast for conditions.

Those import truck with stake beds are notorious for being blind until you are at door level with them because rarely are they outfitted with wide mirrors. Extremely dangerous to pass.

The tractor-trailer did have time to stop as otherwise our camera boy would have tread squish marks all over him!

 

Easy to armchair-quarterback this one, but I wonder how many of the regular lane-splitters on this board would have been caught out.

[notacop]

True, true. As a daily lane splitter Ya gotta watch for the boxes all around you.

More of a concern is the presence of commercial vehicles in the #1-2 lanes. What the heck big vans and such are doing there is a mystery. Seems our LEO's are not concerned about it. Any CHP's got a reflection on this?

Makes my commute a bother though.

Keeping a high visibilty and maintaining awareness of conditions is paramount.

That and being lucky!

[russell_bynum]

Basically, too fast for the conditions.

 

Specifically, he had a vehicle on the left and a gap on the right....that's your risky place to split.

 

Perhaps, if he had been more on his toes he could have made the lane change with the pickup. Most likely he fixated on the threat and as a result was not able to react. I had a driver make a right turn from the left lane right across my path once. I screwed up by not anticipating it, but I was able to brake hard, then slam the bike down and turn just inside of the bubblehead.

[BeniciaRT_GT]

... but I wonder how many of the regular lane-splitters on this board would have been caught out.

 

I watched this several times. That is a tough one. It didn't look like he was trying to get around the Jeep at first, or was waiting for him to move over (his blinker was on...) but possibly seemed frustrated.

 

Hard to tell what I'd have done. The jackass literally just flippin' turned in front of him. I would not have anticipated that as there wasn't enough gap there to think someone would dive in.

 

I've literally got thousands of miles splitting, and I dont' think I would have predicted this move.

 

That said, I also think I could have not gotten hit. My assumption is he wasn't covering the brake at all. At the angle the guy was shooting to get over, he probably couldn't have moved with him. That usually works better than trying to stop.

 

My call is it is the truck's fault, but he still had too much differential in speed to avoid the bonehead.

 

I've come to the conclusion that being dead right isn't really the way to go. You can aloways call 'em names or worse AFTER you avoid the accident!

[Santron]

I think that he does not have good technique, as demonstrated earlier. When he passed the jeep; he did so at an inopportune time - I don't like passing vehicles when there is a spot that they might want to squeeze into. Secondly, the pickup truck did have his blinker on, which the biker should have heeded. Also, you could see the pickup's front right tire start to turn when the biker was a good 10 feet beind the truck, which he also missed. Finally, when he passed the truck that he hit, if he would have been going slower and covering his brake (after all of these other red flags) in anticipation that the truck might turn into the available space, he could have avoided this collision. In all fairlness, too, the pickup truck did turn in at an unusually shallow angle.

[Cheechoo]

He failed to apply the brakes when the truck began to turn right. Seems like he accelerated right into it. Rider's fault in my opinion. In fact unless there is a deliberate attempt to hit the rider, I think it is always going to be the rider's fault. AND even if the attempt is deliberate, unless there are witnesses who volunteer to get involved, it won't be believed.

[bvaughan]

More of a concern is the presence of commercial vehicles in the #1-2 lanes. What the heck big vans and such are doing there is a mystery. . . .

the utube tag identifies the clip as "lane splitting in Mexico." we don't get many big rigs in the number 1 or 2 lane in california, but we do get plenty of small trucks with guys going to/from work in the hov lane.

[bvaughan]

I watched this several times. That is a tough one. . . . The jackass literally just flippin' turned in front of him.

after replaying this a dozen times, am i right that maybe the second truck did have its turn signal on, the amber light 3 in from the right side, just inboard of the brakelight?

 

also, you can see after passing the wagoneer that the second truck is not buttup against the vehicle in front, but has hung back, positioned to cut into the gap between the two trucks in the #2 lane.

[jaytee]

While the truck did not clear his lane change, the motorcyclist never attempted to brake as far as I could tell, and he was accelerating into the gap that was on the right...

 

That being said, when traffic is that tight and lanes are moving at different speeds, a good lane-splitter's 'spidey-sense' would be tingling every time you see a vehicle next to an open spot like that. Most of the time cars in two lanes over-lap each other and cannot change lanes. When they can, I always go into the gap myself, giving myself more room if he decides to dart over.

 

The truck was signalling, but I had to go back a couple times to make sure - it's hard to see, and the left tailamp is out. Assuming the motorcyclist saw the tail lamp, he was an idiot to attempt to pass him as a gap was coming up.

 

In the final analysis, there was a significant speed differential between the lanes, and here in CA you are asking for unpredictable lane merges when that is happeneing. I would not have been splitting at that time, until the lane speeds became more equal. The motorcycle was accelrating into a dangerous set of circumstances, most of which were forseeable to an experienced lane splitter. The truck did not clear his lane change and bears some legal responsibility, IMHO, but that does not help the motorcycle avoid a damaging get-off that he could have avoided by not accelerating agressively into an opening gap.

 

Painful lesson.

 

JT

[bvaughan]

I think that he does not have good technique, as demonstrated earlier. When he passed the jeep; he did so at an inopportune time - I don't like passing vehicles when there is a spot that they might want to squeeze into. Secondly, the pickup truck did have his blinker on, which the biker should have heeded. Also, you could see the pickup's front right tire start to turn when the biker was a good 10 feet beind the truck, which he also missed.

missed your post at first. think you nailed it.

[bvaughan]

While the truck did not clear his lane change, the motorcyclist never attempted to brake as far as I could tell, . . .

. . . even though he had time for an "aw damn". in that split second he instantly went into resignation instead of continuing to ride the bike. reminds me of the pilot rule: "in a crash landing don't stop flying the airplane until it comes to a complete stop."

[smiller]

Basically, too fast for the conditions.

 

Specifically, he had a vehicle on the left and a gap on the right....that's your risky place to split.

Yep.

 

The cyclist was going way too fast, and under the worst possible splitting conditions (referring to the speed and density of the traffic.) Under those conditions he should have been exercising extreme caution but instead he was pushing it. The truck was even signaling but at that speed there was little time to notice/react to it. Totally the rider's fault I would regretfully have to say.

[SageRider]

He failed to apply the brakes...

I disagree... He clearly chops throttle and probably brakes at the same time. Hard to tell for sure as there is no lift on acceleration or dive on brakling shown.

Thanks for whoever pointed out that the truck was signalling. I missed that at first.

This was a cardinal sin to attempt a pass when that blinker was going!

[notacop]

I dunno about where you ride in LA but the east bound 60 near the 605 gets a lot of big single axle stake beds and bobtails taking their place in the #1-2 lanes. Lots of big utility trucks too.

Worst place is Las Vegas. Double dumps and all sorts of big stuff in the fast lane.

[owrstrich]

im all over socal hauling my 34' featherlite hearing test trailer with my ford f 550 truck... when im hooked up its always right 2 lanes...

 

i got my eyes on the mirrors as much as i looking forward... the reason is lane splitters... im amazed how many lane splitters are splitting the right 2 lanes...

 

suicide in my opinion...

 

when im not hooked im almost always in the left most lane... my mirrors really hang out there so i hug the left side of the lane opening up the right side of the lane for splitters...

 

i see all kinds of stuff going down... mostly lane jumpers trying to get 1 up on the car in front of them... i see lane changes with out signal more than with signal... these folks drive in total disregard for anyone but their selves...

 

its crazy out there... i have never lane split because we are mostly 2 up with bags and all... im not sure i will ever lane split unless the traffic is standing still... the reward is not worth the risk for me when traffic is moving... even at a creep...

 

however... i have great appreciation for the riders who have it mastered... those guys are my heroes...

 

you gotta eat...

 

owrstrich

[russell_bynum]

While the truck did not clear his lane change

 

Just a note about that...it's damn near impossible to spot a splitting motorcyclist in a situation like that. The pickup driver may well have looked and not seen the bike. The bike was over in the right wheel track where the Jeep would have been between him and the pickup.

 

The amount of time where the rider was actually visible to the pickup driver was very short. I wouldn't put any fault at all on the pickup driver.

[Dave McReynolds]

I always anticipate that a vehicle will move into a vacant spot to its side, and will not split past it until I'm sure that's not going to happen. He did the opposite of what I would have done. I would have paused, the stake truck would have merged over, then I would have passed it on its left. Instead he accelerated right into the merging truck.

 

The situation portrayed in the video was not unusual; it is one of the situations we face, and have to be prepared for, almost every time we split.

[GoGo Gadget]

He failed to apply the brakes...

I disagree... He clearly chops throttle and probably brakes at the same time. Hard to tell for sure as there is no lift on acceleration or dive on brakling shown.

Thanks for whoever pointed out that the truck was signalling. I missed that at first.

This was a cardinal sin to attempt a pass when that blinker was going!

 

 

Dunno. You see his RPM's drop from 2800 as he passes the trucks rear wheel and he says something. When he gets hit, you here the RPM's spike. Had he been on the front brakes, I don't think the engine would have rev'd. Never been hit by a car, so I may be wrong.

[SageRider]

He failed to apply the brakes...

I disagree... He clearly chops throttle and probably brakes at the same time. Hard to tell for sure as there is no lift on acceleration or dive on brakling shown.

Thanks for whoever pointed out that the truck was signalling. I missed that at first.

This was a cardinal sin to attempt a pass when that blinker was going!

 

 

Dunno. You see his RPM's drop from 2800 as he passes the trucks rear wheel and he says something. When he gets hit, you here the RPM's spike. Had he been on the front brakes, I don't think the engine would have rev'd. Never been hit by a car, so I may be wrong.

Clutch disengaged. Revved when throttle twisted at impact.

I have had that happen before in an emergency stop... Clutch in with maximum braking applied. Inadvertent throttle twist.

[Stir]

short clip of a small truck taking out a splitter, seen from the bike here. query, how many things did the splitter do wrong?

 

The stake bed was signaling. When I split, I watch for signals like a hawk. In addition, when the gap was opening, that is precisely when someone is going to make their move. You have plan your passes when cars are side by side. If they are going to colide then, get your feet and legs up on the seat.

[Stir]

im not sure i will ever lane split unless the traffic is standing still... the reward is not worth the risk for me when traffic is moving... even at a creep...

 

What is the risk of you sitting end to end with the cars and the turkey behind you is distracted? They don't see you stop and run into the back of you. This happens ALL the time. Think of how often you see cars pulled over to the side exchanging information. If you were on a bike however, they would be calling an ambulance. I would say that penalty is pretty severe. On the other hand, the speed differential of a car coming lateral to you is survivable. My bro in law was hit while splitting. $400 damage to the bike, none to the car. I've seen other bikers get hit splitting but I've always seen them up and walking. Get hit from behind and you are courting a broken back.

[blkvelvt]

im not sure i will ever lane split unless the traffic is standing still... the reward is not worth the risk for me when traffic is moving... even at a creep...

owrstrich

 

Actually I prefer to split with traffic moving and not standing still. If traffic is doing 20mph and a rider is doing 25, the speed difference is 5 mph. If traffic is stopped, everything around the rider becomes an immovable object at any speed.

 

The rider was clearly at fault. The truck driver has every legal right to change lanes. Impatience seems to be the riders only skill. I would have let the truck move over. I split around LAX and the South Bay daily in Southern California and the splitters are 50% squids.

[bvaughan]

I dunno about where you ride in LA but the east bound 60 near the 605 gets a lot of big single axle stake beds and bobtails taking their place in the #1-2 lanes. Lots of big utility trucks too.

believe it or not, almost everywhere but there. 10 east from pch to yucaipa, 5/405 from castaic to san clemente, all of the 91, 55, 57, 101, 210 & 15 or 215 south from el cajon to the san diego border. but the 60 east morning ride is the worst way IMNSHO to get east from downtown to chino hills or further east. no carpool lane, lotsa trucks and a 4" lip between the #3&4 lanes just east of nogales that broke the front rim on my rt when i was changing lanes 4 years ago. if i'm heading to riverside in the morning i take the 10 to kellogg hill, then south on the 57 to the 60 and then east to riverside. since the carpool lanes start at diamond bar and the 60 was widened east of the 57 years ago, that road is sweet. oh, there is another section that sucks big time: the 710 south of the 405. over 50 years old, narrow, no hov, and trucks everywhere. so you're right, there are sections in la that are as bad as that video.

[BereIsland]

The best warning of the trucks intentions was his position on the carriageway.

[upflying]

The Jeep tags don't appear to be California so I would assume the lane splitting was illegal in the first place.

The space for splitting seems pretty tight, esecially with the solid tractor-semitrailer traffic in the #2 lane.

If this were Cali, the small truck would be at fault for an unsafe lane change. I didn't think the split speed was excessive and the predictability of a 45 degree angle lane change between two big rigs did not make sense.

[David]

Bike was in the deep shadows, too.

[smiller]

If this were Cali, the small truck would be at fault for an unsafe lane change.

Well at least he signaled... that's better than most...

 

Seriously, if that truck was guilty of an unsafe lane change then so are several million other vehicles every day during any commute period in any major city. A motorcycle splitting traffic at those speeds is virtually invisible to other drivers no matter how careful they are, and IMO that guy was going stupid fast for the conditions.

[ESokoloff]

Apparently this was Mexico.

 

It looks to me that the #2 lane is stopped & that would explain the sharp angle of the stake bed trucks lane change.

I think both the Jeep & stake bed truck were attempting to dive into the #2 lane at the last possible moment. The Jeep saw him & moved left but blocked the motorcyclist from the stake bed trucks view until a few seconds from impact.

Perhaps the rider was still preoccupied with getting past the Jeep & failed to spot the blinker/intentions of the stake bed truck. Or worse yet, was trying to race it past the trucks gap in the #2 lane.

 

Not to change the subject but I wonder if headlight modulators are legal in Mexico?

 

I'm not insinuating that they are a substitute to proper rider etiquette, just a backup if I miss something, make a mistake or happen upon an inattentive motorist.

[Survived-til-now]

I lane split on a daily basis and am reluctant to split past a lorry and especially between a lorry and anything larger than a car. The gap just gets too narrow....

 

I didn't hear him use his horn when the other vehicle started to cut in...... has saved my bacon more than once.

[russell_bynum]

I didn't hear him use his horn when the other vehicle started to cut in...... has saved my bacon more than once.

 

I'm sorry but the very last thing I'm going to do when a 6,000lbs truck is a half-second away from turning me into hamburger is waste time honking my f'ing horn.

 

If I've got time to do that, then I've got time to take evasive action.

[bvaughan]

I didn't hear him use his horn when the other vehicle started to cut in...... has saved my bacon more than once.

I'm sorry but the very last thing I'm going to do when a 6,000lbs truck is a half-second away from turning me into hamburger is waste time honking my f'ing horn.

Maybe this difference of perspective is due to the two different riding environments. In the UK, the primary use of the horn is reflected in this bit from the Police Rider's Handbook: "Sound your horn whenever you think another road user could hear and benefit from it. The purpose of the horn is to inform others that you are there. It gives you no right to proceed, and should never be used as a rebuke." In lalaland, the primary function of the horn is to rebuke, as evidenced by the fact the highest incidence of horn use is in anger by wealthy young females in gilded cages on surface streets in Beverly Hills. Its use in socal to warn is strictly secondary at best.

[BereIsland]

I didn't hear him use his horn when the other vehicle started to cut in...... has saved my bacon more than once.

I'm sorry but the very last thing I'm going to do when a 6,000lbs truck is a half-second away from turning me into hamburger is waste time honking my f'ing horn.

Maybe this difference of perspective is due to the two different riding environments. In the UK, the primary use of the horn is reflected in this bit from the Police Rider's Handbook: "Sound your horn whenever you think another road user could hear and benefit from it. The purpose of the horn is to inform others that you are there. It gives you no right to proceed, and should never be used as a rebuke." In lalaland, the primary function of the horn is to rebuke, as evidenced by the fact the highest incidence of horn use is in anger by wealthy young females in gilded cages on surface streets in Beverly Hills. Its use in socal to warn is strictly secondary at best.

Maybe your both right on this one. I do try to keep my horn covered so that I could use it in the fraction of a second when it could be useful, and if its loud enough it can work, but I do have to practice my reaction speed with the horn in a similar way to quick breaking, Like Russel said, no point fumbling for it as you crash.

Steve

[MAT2CHI]

He was traveling too fast for the conditions. He should have slowed down when there was an opening in the number two lane until it was safe to pass. If your going to split lanes, you need to have your thinking cap on or you're going to be toast. Splitting lanes like that gives all the safe splitters a bad name.

[russell_bynum]

I didn't hear him use his horn when the other vehicle started to cut in...... has saved my bacon more than once.

I'm sorry but the very last thing I'm going to do when a 6,000lbs truck is a half-second away from turning me into hamburger is waste time honking my f'ing horn.

Maybe this difference of perspective is due to the two different riding environments. In the UK, the primary use of the horn is reflected in this bit from the Police Rider's Handbook: "Sound your horn whenever you think another road user could hear and benefit from it. The purpose of the horn is to inform others that you are there. It gives you no right to proceed, and should never be used as a rebuke." In lalaland, the primary function of the horn is to rebuke, as evidenced by the fact the highest incidence of horn use is in anger by wealthy young females in gilded cages on surface streets in Beverly Hills. Its use in socal to warn is strictly secondary at best.

 

Let's see...I can either take evasive action and save my life. Or...I can fumble around for a button to cause a puny little noise to come out of the 4" horn on my 380lbs motorcycle in the hopes that the driver of the 3000lbs car that's about to kill me hears the horn through all the insulation (which is designed to prevent outside noises from getting through) and over their 1200watt stereo (or cell phone, or kids, or conversation with the passenger) and is subsequently able identify the source of the pathetic little noise AND is skilled enough to react properly.

 

I don't give a sh*t what the handbook says. If I'm about to get run over, I'm going to remedy that situation first and if I live long enough to think about honking, then I might do that later.

[bvaughan]

Let's see...I can either take evasive action and save my life. Or...I can fumble around for a button to cause a puny little noise to come out of the 4" horn on my 380lbs motorcycle in the hopes that the driver of the 3000lbs car that's about to kill me hears the horn through all the insulation (which is designed to prevent outside noises from getting through) and over their 1200watt stereo (or cell phone, or kids, or conversation with the passenger) and is subsequently able identify the source of the pathetic little noise AND is skilled enough to react properly.

 

I don't give a sh*t what the handbook says. If I'm about to get run over, I'm going to remedy that situation first and if I live long enough to think about honking, then I might do that later.

the point of the handbook quote is that in the UK horns actually mean "watch out" instead of "f you". that's consistent with the generally much more civilized road behavior there. i wouldn't expect any cager in socal, or in any american metroplex, to get the first, instead of the second, message, so i'm with you on not relying on it for collision avoidance. closest i've come to that is to use the horn to keep the pedestrians on the curb.

 

as to your horn being feeble, that's easy to fix . . .

[russell_bynum]

as to your horn being feeble, that's easy to fix . . .

 

You could give me a horn so huge that I have to tow it in a trailer behind the bike and I still wouldn't waste the time.

 

The only time a horn is worthwhile is if you are totally trapped and have no possible chance to get yourself out of trouble. If you've managed to get yourself in that situation, then relying on the 'other guy' to hear your horn and react appropriately is about the only thing you can do.

[AdventurePoser]

I think basically the moto rider was going too fast...I split lanes all the time here in sunny So Cal, and you cannot be too careful.

 

Cheers,

Steve in So Cal

[tosh41]

Here in Belgium, there has been a very interesting campaign to sensitize cars to bikes. In much of the country, cars - and SUVs - signal they have spotted a biker, by using their indicators and moving aside. Interestingly, sometimes one feels almost obliged to overtake because of their effort - even if one is already over the legal speed limit. I tried using this with the cops as a reason for a ticket, but it did not work.

In general, I think every biker needs to understand that splitting ALWAYS carries a potentially major risk, and remain actively on full alert. Those who do it on an everyday basis sometimes forget this.

On my part, I feel that the extra confidence given by an ABS braking system to go for a max. stop does count - it has, in my case twice - in circumstances similar to the one in the UTube clip. Luckily, on both occasions, there was also a considerable gap between myself and the car behind.

 

Tosh

R1150 RS (04), R60/7 (77)

[dave_jo]

I live 60 miles from the nearest divided highway. I can't imagine driving a motorcycle in conditions that would incite me to lanesplit. My sincerest condolences to all of you who have to drive in those conditions. MY idea of a traffic jam on the way to work is getting behind someone doing the speed limit.

I did get my RT out on a three lane freeway on Saturday and in light traffic found it to be quite an experience. Didn't need to split lanes but found three lanes very useful. It isn't as much fun as driving 50-60mph on two lane curves but it is an experience. My wife was not real happy when she looked at the GPS and saw my max speed for the trip was 106mph. No she wasn't on the back.

Please drive safely everyone. At speeds appropriate to the conditions.

106mph was probably too fast. But I didn't endanger anyone but myself and I wasn't responsible for denting the side of anyone's truck.

[John in VA]

What a dope. Absolutely going too fast squeezing between an 18-wheeler and a near-blind small stake truck. Ignored small truck's turnsignal. Should have realized that the small truck has poor rear visibility, only a tiny rightside mirror. I'd fault rider 80%/truck 20%. As rare a privilege as legal lanesplitting is, it amazes me how dumb and reckless riders abuse it. Sure the truck should have looked in his tiny mirror harder, but he had his signal on so the rider could have almost expected to be cut off.

[Survived-til-now]

Russell

 

First thing I did when I read your reply was to look up what bikes you ride - not BMW? The horn on the BMW is a f~~~~~ big button right by your left thumb and it is dead easy to cover. The horn on a 2005 RT is a pair of twin horns just as loud a car's and as others have pointed out there is a real difference in how we use them over here.

 

But I don't want to argue with you and I know what you mean about using the time to brake etc. However, when I lane-split I'll have two fingers on the brake lever and a left thumb by the horn and although the wife tells me men can't do two things at once - both go on in about the same time.

 

on some of the wider points raised:

 

Lot's of people have commented about the differential in speed and that the guy was lane splitting too fast. I have to confess it did not strike me that he was going unusually fast. The fact that the truck/lorry actually stopped in time indicates that speeds were not that high or perhaps the trucker spotted him and was already braking!

[bvaughan]

I have to confess it did not strike me that he was going unusually fast. The fact that the truck/lorry actually stopped in time indicates that speeds were not that high or perhaps the trucker spotted him and was already braking!

plus the squid (if we all agree that he screwed up missing the lane positioning, turn-in and turn signal) bounced up pretty quick with his mouth open, which he would not have been able to do if he had really been wacked.

[russell_bynum]

First thing I did when I read your reply was to look up what bikes you ride - not BMW? The horn on the BMW is a f~~~~~ big button right by your left thumb and it is dead easy to cover. The horn on a 2005 RT is a pair of twin horns just as loud a car's and as others have pointed out there is a real difference in how we use them over here.

 

I have a shade over 100,000 miles on BMW's (R1100RT, R1100RS, K75). I'm well familiar with the switch gear. Personally, I'd rather have my thumb being used for something worthwhile like holding onto the grip rather than hovering above a horn button. And it isn't an issue of the horn not being loud enough. It's just that I don't see the point. Even if I could have the horn come on automatically with no input from me whatsoever every time I get into a bind, I still wouldn't want it.

[bvaughan]

I have a shade over 100,000 miles on BMW's (R1100RT, R1100RS, K75). I'm well familiar with the switch gear. Personally, I'd rather have my thumb being used for something worthwhile like holding onto the grip rather than hovering above a horn button. And it isn't an issue of the horn not being loud enough. It's just that I don't see the point.

actually on the beemers your thumb hovers below the horn button. the point is simply that, although you can't rely on it, especially in in california, there are times when you can move or stop that 6,000lb truck dead in its tracks with that flimsy little button and weedy little horn. it's pretty amazing if you think about it.

[smiller]

although you can't rely on it,

And that' the point. In most near-collision situations you don't have the luxury of time to try anything that may not help. I'd put all of my effort into altering my path/speed so as to avoid the accident. If you have time to honk the horn then you have time to do something more effective. Plus, honking the horn and expecting the other driver to react adds together two reaction times, yours and his, wasting even more precious milliseconds.

[russell_bynum]

actually on the beemers your thumb hovers below the horn button.

 

When I'm riding, my right thumb is comfortably wrapped around the bottom of the throttle grip.

[russell_bynum]

although you can't rely on it,

And that' the point. In most near-collision situations you don't have the luxury of time to try anything that may not help. I'd put all of my effort into altering my path/speed so as to avoid the accident. If you have time to honk the horn then you have time to do something more effective. Plus, honking the horn and expecting the other driver to react adds together two reaction times, yours and his, wasting even more precious milliseconds.

 

<Foghorn Leghorn>Exact..I say...I say...Exactly.</Foghorn>

 

What's the freaking point? Maybe they hear it. Maybe they react. Maybe their reaction helps me.

 

Or I can just take action myself, fix the damn problem, and move on with my life.

[James Clark]

actually on the beemers your thumb hovers below the horn button.

 

When I'm riding, my right thumb is comfortably wrapped around the bottom of the throttle grip.

 

 

What does that have to do with the horn button next to the left grip?