my dealer is charging me $175/hr labour on my US bike - BMW Canada in Chrisis

[SpaceKing]

I went to my dealer here in Vancouver today to service my GS, and they told me that the shop rate on all US bikes now is $175 an hour. With the rising canadian dollar and bikes selling on the average at $5,000 less in the states, Canadian dealers are facing a chrisis with their business. This I can understand - something has to be worked out if USD and CDN are going to be on par. But I have been a regular customer of John Valk for several years now and for them to punish me for buying a GS in the States, when there was a year plus waiting period for one here in Canada, is disrespecful, hostile, insulting, and ultimately soils the BMW brand for me. I understand the position these guys are in, but this decision is an awful, awful way to conduct business, reflects very badly on them, on Motorrad Canada and on BMW as a brand. If this sticks, I am faced with crossing the border to Seattle on a two day excursion to have my bike serviced, or selling both my bikes and switching brands, an option that I am seriously considering. I am astounded that this would even be a consideration for these guys, and as business people I cannot believe that they wouldn't see the ramifications of these moves. Keep in mind that if you are from the US and passing through and in need of service, your rates are going to be $75.00 per hour. Apparently the meeting between the US and Canadian dealers was very very ugly with lots of yelling on from both sides. I am very very disgusted and feel like I no longer want any part of BMW's way of doing business and their disregard for their dealers and their customers.

I am seriously considering a Vstrom or a Ulysses.

A sad day for a BMW owner in Vancouver.

[Francois_Dumas]

I agree, that's not a fair way of doing business, nor is it very smart.

[EffBee]

Well, if you make the world's best granola, then I take it you're not avert to working with your hands. Learn to do your own service work and just use Seattle for the really big repairs.

 

I also understand the problem your dealership is facing. But they are going about it the wrong way. If they want to set a higher labor rate, then offer a minor but effective discount for those who've purchased their bike from them, I can see that. You can take your savings up front and buy the bike stateside, or over the long-haul when you get your bike serviced locally. But what they're attemting feels very punitive.

[tallman]

Ben,

That's a lot of granola.

Wonder about the legality of that?

Any Canadian fair practices experts out there?

I'd try to do all the basic stuff yourself (yes, you can ) and then do a trip South a couple time per year.

How many miles do you put on the GS per year?

A good tech day , some self help, and you're down to maybe one trip to the Seattle dealers.

Best wishes.

[SpaceKing]

Thanks for your advice Tim. One of the biggest surprises and now one of the biggest benefits of owning a beemer has been the BMW community, the support, intelligence and level headed camaraderie. However I don't feel that the corporate end of it is a part of it, and there is something about this that is really turning me off about giving BMW any more of my hard earned granola bucks. Why would you do business with someone that treats you with borderline contempt? Is riding this machine worth all the extra hassle? If I treated my customers like this I would be out of business in a month. This has left a very bad taste in my mouth and I am not sure that all the BMWST mouthwash can get it out. I am disgusted.

Will you all still accept me if I ride a Suzuki?

[Boffin]

Will you all still accept me if I ride a Suzuki?

 

We accept Greg and he rides a Burgman

 

Andy

[smiller]

That seems like an incredibly self-defeating business practice. The current dramatic marketplace effects of the dollar/loonie exchange rate is due to the relative suddenness of the change and will work itself out over time, but I have a feeling that the kind of punitive measures you describe will have a much longer negative effect for the business. It will take them a long time to reacquire their lost customers, if they ever do.

[SpaceKing]

We accept Greg and he rides a Burgman

Wow, this IS a big hearted community. I am not sure I could do that . . .

b

[keithb]

Ben

It was hard reading your post and a totally assinine business position from your local dealer. Try not to stress. Just smile and walk away. Now comes the easy part. Not sure what year your GS is but all you have to do is learn how to do a valve adjust, T.B. sync. (hexheads don't need the sync.), and change the fluids. Anybody can do these services. Anything major and I would be on the road to Seattle. If it is under warranty take it to your local dealer. They are getting paid to do the work so let them make some money that way. No worries bro. Like I said, just smile and walk away. As far as I am concerned you can ride a moped if you like. It has an engine and two wheels right? Keep the faith I have your back!

[SpaceKing]

suddenness of the change and will work itself out over time, but I have a feeling that the kind of punitive measures you describe will have a much longer negative effect for the business. It will take them a long time to reacquire their lost customers, if they ever do.

Smiller, part of me wants to never have anything else to do with them, regardless of how this all settles out. Relationships are very important to me and how I have built my business, and this just doesn't fit into my value system. The guy who is the service manager at this place is the one I feel the most for, as he is the one who has to deliver all the bad news to everyone who comes in, and he is a truly nice guy who is very accomodating and a real pleasure to deal with. I can afford to ride a Beemer but do I want to after being pi**ssed on like this?

I have some serious thinking to do, and I am sad about this because I really enjoyed owning these bikes and all that comes with them.

[SpaceKing]

It was hard reading your post and a totally assinine business position from your local dealer. Try not to stress. Just smile and walk away. Now comes the easy part. Not sure what year your GS is but all you have to do is learn how to do a valve adjust, T.B. sync. (hexheads don't need the sync.), and change the fluids. Anybody can do these services. Anything major and I would be on the road to Seattle. If it is under warranty take it to your local dealer. They are getting paid to do the work so let them make some money that way. No worries bro. Like I said, just smile and walk away.

Keith, there is that option. But you know how it is with BMW warranty. Often it is a judgment call. YOu take your bike in because it is not running well, they put in three hours and suddenly Motorrad says no we won't cover that and you are out 600 bucks. Is it worth it? And do I want to deal with my feelings everytime I step into the place?

I have to think this through - and I WILL follow through on my decision.

And thanks for your support.

Cheers

ben

[Tim Yip]

It's certainly hard to retain one's loyalty to a business that treats its paying customers like that.

 

Options are to go to the other dealer in Vancouver or plan your maintenance around vacations (like some of my BMW friends are starting to do.)

 

That means planning a trip to Victoria or Kelowna.

 

Or finding a good, independent BMW repair shop.

[SpaceKing]

It's certainly hard to retain one's loyalty to a business that treats its paying customers like that.

 

Options are to go to the other dealer in Vancouver or plan your maintenance around vacations (like some of my BMW friends are starting to do.)

 

That means planning a trip to Victoria or Kelowna.

 

Or finding a good, independent BMW repair shop.

I've got news for you Tim, according to the service manager at this dealership, all Canadian dealers are on board with this, so that means Blackfoot cycle as well. It is some kind of inane strategy to get Motorrad Canada to respond to their requests to level the playing field with regard to the discrepancy between US and Canadian bike prices.

[ka5ysy]

And you guys think us lawyers are expensive !

[keithb]

How do they track or determine the bike was not purchased in Canada? My next thought was to find an independent as well after my initial post. Learn to do the maintenance yourself and salute them all with universal sign language or the high forearm. On the other hand, this could be a great business opportunity for someone to come in and kick the dealers ass with superior service and shop rates for labor.

[SpaceKing]

How do they track or determine the bike was not purchased in Canada? My next thought was to find an independent as well after my initial post. Learn to do the maintenance yourself and salute them all with universal sign language or the high forearm. On the other hand, this could be a great business opportunity for someone to come in and kick the dealers ass with superior service and shop rates for labor.

Yes, Vancouver is way overdue for another BMW service shop. It took me a month to schedule my bike in! If there was a BMW certified tech here he could make a killing.

[keithb]

Hmmm. Only 34 miles from northern Wa. to Vancouver. Not a bad commute. Now how long would it take me to get BMW certified?

[Sidmariner]

Across the board Canadian industry and Government need to address this situation in a way which makes it fair to dealers and customers alike. The base-cost of bikes in Canada has to match that of the US for the dealer to survive, and if it doesn't because of government tariffs or import duties then that needs to change.

 

Taking punitive action like charging for recall letters or jacking up labour rates is self-defeating and downright stupid. Customers have long memories and won't tolerate the practice of gouging. A good chunk of a business's value is in good will. I have lots of affection for my bike, but zero for the Canadian distribution chain now. I refuse to let them make me feel like a criminal for saving $5000+ of my hard-earned wages on my bike purchase.

 

At some point folks in the motherland needs to chime in and square these people off. Hopefully they do it before the brand dies in Canada.

[Fugu]

So the Canadian dealers are protesting against BMW by pissing off their own customers? Brilliant!

 

The Germans are coming, let's kill ourselves!

[RFW]

Those US BMWs are just SO much harder to work on than the Canadian ones, that you can see why a canadian dealer would charge that much.

 

So this is how John Valk operates. I'll be dealing with Pacific BMW-Yamaha from now on.

[Smoky]

Hey Ben,

 

I helped you adjust your valves in Nakusp, how'd they work out? Hope you didn't require any valve work!

 

How did the pics taken the night before turn out? Thanks for the granola.

[SpaceKing]

Keith, are you a crack shot mechanic?

If you have any interest in coming up here and doing some work, I am sure I could find you a garage

ben

[Bud]

Here's an idea. Find a used bike in the US that was first sold in Canada.

 

Then when you came in for service you would get the cheap rate.

 

But I agree with you 100%. Screw your customers, lose their business. Simple concept.

[JerryMather]

Sounds like you need to set up a Tech Daze.

You host and we come over and fix your bike and eat your food!

 

It's whole lot easier to swallow than those shop prices.

[keithb]

Ben

Well I will say I know my way around a toolbox. I have been working on cars and boats since I was 14 and now motorcycles for the past 15 years and have my father to thank for teaching me those skills. I have not been professionly trained but I am a quick study. That's why I said you can learn to do this stuff yourself. I notice several other people that have commented are located in your area. My recommendation would be to organize a tech day up in your area. I bet, correction, I KNOW, it would be a HUGE SUCCESS when other people who bought bikes in the U.S. learn of this absurd labor rate. They will be flocking to your event. Maybe you request permission to use the dealers corkboard to advertise your tech day (hee, hee). I would be very tempted to fly up and help because of the total arrogance of this dealer in Vancouver. Can we hold the tech day across the street from his store?

 

Sweeeet! Just checked with AA. Nonstop from LAX to Vancouver. As long as there is a seat on the plane and a place for me to stay I would fly up there for a tech day. You have to promise to take me on a tour of the city. I have not been there since 1990. I remember how beautiful it was looking across the water to the snow covered mountains (March). You set it up and they will come.

[SpaceKing]

Hey Smokey man, of course I remember!! I remember the look on your face when you realized you are only getting a small bag . . .

I am loathe to take the bike in to J Valk until I find out what the deal is with those shop rates. I may be in the last days/months of BMW ownership. I've got a few good pics, email me and I will send them to you

bharapat@telus.net

good to hear from you and thanks for the mechanical help

b

[SpaceKing]

Sounds like you need to set up a Tech Daze.

You host and we come over and fix your bike and eat your food!

Be careful what you offer Jerry. I could set up one of those here no problem, but you would have a bit of a drive . . .how do you feel about granola? Breakfast, lunch and dinner . . . plus a pre bed time snack.

Yes it's that good . . . Smokey?

cheers

ben

[SpaceKing]

So this is how John Valk operates. I'll be dealing with Pacific BMW-Yamaha from now on.

Bob, it's all the local dealers, including Victoria and Kelowna, as well as Pacific. Apparently they are sticking together to get BMW to do something. What an utterly foolhardy strategy, like I said, nothing like soiling the brand and waving their soiled underwear at the people who keep them in business. Shame.

b

[Boffin]

In the Uk price fixing is illegal. Does Canada not have similar laws?

 

Andy

[Bob Palin]

Across the board Canadian industry and Government need to address this situation in a way which makes it fair to dealers and customers alike. The base-cost of bikes in Canada has to match that of the US for the dealer to survive, and if it doesn't because of government tariffs or import duties then that needs to change.

It's not necessarily tariffs or taxes that has caused the disparity, the problem is caused (I suspect but haven't looked it up) by the general weakness of the US dollar. What will actually have to happen is that the US dealers will have to raise prices so that they can pay the same number of Euros per bike. If market forces do not permit that then BMW Germany will have to take less and they can do the same for Canada thus reducing the C$ price. I'm sure that's a bit simple, maybe the US dealers have a dollar based contract, I don't know.

[smiller]

What will actually have to happen is that the US dealers will have to raise prices so that they can pay the same number of Euros per bike.

That may well be, but if so the result will be interesting... the pricing disparity between BMW and Japanese models is already stretching whatever value difference exists between the brands in many buyer's minds. It can't be good for sales to add another few grand in there...

[jbim]

Go on www.advrider.com. There's a guy called Jim VB who sells a maintenance video for the GS. He claims it cover everything on the maintenance checklist. The dvd is 30$.

[Dances_With_Wiener_Dogs]

Will you all still accept me if I ride a Suzuki?

 

We accept Greg and he rides a Burgman

 

Andy

Hey, I'm planning the next Un and I don't even own a BMW any longer. One of my committee members owns a KLR650 and a ST1100. You'll be fine.

[Perlova]

I just bought a US bike and took it to my local CDN BMW dealer in Southern Ontario. They were very fair ($90 for a safety and $60 to install a tire). Your dealer should be taking his bitterness out on BMW Inc. and not you. I'm pretty sure that what they are doing is illegal. With a par CDN dollar, they should be asking corporate BMW why an RT costs $22,000 in Canada but $16,000 in the US. Why should the consumer pay for their errors in planning?

Make a statement with your dollars and go elsewhere, even if you have to travel to get your service done.

Not everyone the drives or rides a Beemer is rich.

[Jim VonBaden]

Go on www.advrider.com. There's a guy called Jim VB who sells a maintenance video for the GS. He claims it cover everything on the maintenance checklist. The dvd is 30$.

 

Actually it is $25, and it covers everything needed for all services up to a 36K, and basically all others as well.

 

Jim

[11101110]

I went to my dealer here in Vancouver today to service my GS, and they told me that the shop rate on all US bikes now is $175 an hour.

 

and what about the tech doing the work. Does he get extra for working on a US bike. I doubt it.

[GoGo Gadget]

How do they track or determine the bike was not purchased in Canada?

 

They run the VIN. My local dealer gives me shit when I drop my bike off for service because I bought it 160miles away to save $2k.

 

 

Order the maintenance video from JVB then turn your own wrench. That is my plan and I was just pissed over the attitude I got, not from the monetary raping.

[GoGo Gadget]

Those US BMWs are just SO much harder to work on than the Canadian ones, that you can see why a canadian dealer would charge that much.

 

 

Yeah, an 8mm wrench in the US is an 8.0064mm wrench in Canada. It messes everything up.

 

 

I just looked up the exchange rate to make that joke. It looks like the exchange rate is as close to dollar for dollar as it should not matter. At its highest in the last 2 years it was 1.17CAD to 1USD. That should have put a $16k bike at $18 and change.

 

IS there more to it than just the exchange rate. I am neither a mathmatician nor and economist, so I could be all screwed up here. Would not be the first time.

[Lineareagle]

Another local Canadian rider told me that the local dealer wanted $500.00 to run the US VIN through the system to find out if there are any recall issues. This is needed here to license the bike.

I called down to a US dealer and they did it for free AND faxed it up to me AND called to make sure I received it.

 

Now think for a second who do you think I will call for the odd farkle or part. New shocks? I'll make the call.

 

Even with shipping and duties it is still cheaper to buy in the states and was so even before the dollar surge.

 

You think BMW has an issue. Try Honda. A Gold Wing here sells for just shy of $28,000.00!

 

Try importing one of those and you are told you can ONLY import one US Honda to Canada. How do they control it?

They will not issue the clearance certificate! Even though as far as Canada Revenue Agency is concerned the bikes are duty free.

[Smoky]

I know that prices from country to country aren't only the difference in exchange rate. Markets are different, BMW Canada only sells about 1100 bikes a year in Canada, I bet they sell more in California. Remember Canada and California have had similar populations for the last 100 years or so.

 

I understand in England, RTs, FJRs and ST1300s are all about the same price, but in America and Canada there is a large difference.

 

The list price for a basic R1200RT is $21,500 in Canadian dollars, and I think it is that high because that is what we will pay. The recent quick change in the dollar has caught many by surprise, but I expect markets will change.

 

If the dealers are suddenly charging extra for shop time, so they can get owners to lean on BMW Canada, maybe it will work, and a short term maintenace problem will turn into a long term more affordable bike supply.

[Paul Mihalka]

I really don't get it how charging a exorbitant labor rate on bikes not purchased in Canada will put pressure on BMW Canada. If anything, it puts pressure on a possible customer to buy the more expensive Canadian bike. That is good for BMW Canada and the dealer. Still, it's a policy that stinks...

[SpaceKing]

I really don't get it how charging a exorbitant labor rate on bikes not purchased in Canada will put pressure on BMW Canada. If anything, it puts pressure on a possible customer to buy the more expensive Canadian bike. That is good for BMW Canada and the dealer. Still, it's a policy that stinks...

Paul, what do you think I will do if this sticks? Especially since I have been a customer of Valk's for 3 years. Do you think I would buy as much as a washer from this guy? I will go to Seattle for my service and if that becomes difficult to manage I will switch brands. Those people will not get another penny of my money. I don't like being crapped all over, I don't care what their issues are.

[Perlova]

What difference does it make who imports the bike, the cutomer or the dealer. Whenever, I make a deal at my local dealer (auto or bike) they always cry the blues that they are only making a couple of points on the vehicle.

If that is true, they are really only going to make their money on service. If they turn customers away by gouging them, that part of the business will dry up as well. Make a service customer happy and they will keep coming back, service after service and the dealer makes much more then just the original profit on the sale.

It's not rocket science.

[marcopolo]

Have you thought of contacting BMW Canada and asking what they thought of their dealers gouging customers?

 

Even with the currencies at par, prices of bikes are never going to be the same in both countries. Currency rates with the Euro are but one variable in the retail price. That said, they should not be $5,000 more in Canada. Any bikes now being sold in Canada have long since been paid for, presumably in Euros, by BMW Canada. Will the '08 models be less expensive? Only time will tell.

[KMG_365]

Sounds like you need to set up a Tech Daze.

You host and we come over and fix your bike and eat your food!

Be careful what you offer Jerry. I could set up one of those here no problem, but you would have a bit of a drive . . .how do you feel about granola? Breakfast, lunch and dinner . . . plus a pre bed time snack.

Yes it's that good . . . Smokey?

cheers

ben

I just LOVE granola!!

 

. . . almost as much as I love Tech Daze!!

[BCRider]

I just picked up my new to me 04 RT yesterday from a member of this board in Redmond Wash. and rode it to the Vancouver area.

I took it into Pacific BMW today to have them do their check over for the $500. Took them about an hour

I brought up the $175/hr fee his competitor was charging and found out that at this point Pacific BMW are not charging any more to work on a US bike. The only problem is they will not take an US bike in for an appointment if they are busy with their own customers.

They have been hit hard with the strength of the Canadian dollar and feel they have lost about 150 sales of BMW and Yamaha bikes because of it.

He also commented that all of the OEM's are lobbying the government to restrict or ban imports of vehicles 15 yrs or newer to try and correct this problem.

So much for free trade.

[GoGo Gadget]

I know that prices from country to country aren't only the difference in exchange rate. Markets are different, BMW Canada only sells about 1100 bikes a year in Canada, I bet they sell more in California. Remember Canada and California have had similar populations for the last 100 years or so.

 

Canadian dealers also need to remember that 90% of the Canadian population lives within 100 miles of the US border. If I were a US dealer near the border, I would put up a big Canadian flag and serve fries and gravy with every service.

[keithb]

Ben

I would be up for helping out at a tech day in Vancouver. How about you Jamie?

[ESokoloff]

Will you all still accept me if I ride a Suzuki?

 

We accept Greg and he rides a Burgman

 

Andy

 

Actually we just put up with Greg

[Bruce C]

They have been hit hard with the strength of the Canadian dollar and feel they have lost about 150 sales of BMW and Yamaha bikes because of it.

He also commented that all of the OEM's are lobbying the government to restrict or ban imports of vehicles 15 yrs or newer to try and correct this problem.

So much for free trade.

 

This could very well happen in Canada.

I believe a citizen cannot import a new vehicle into Australia for his personal use unless it's 15yrs. old.