Another ABS Question

[Retired At LAst]

A few weeks ago when I was in Vt. (it was cold overnight about 38 degrees). The bike started right up but the ABS lights keep flashing. After a few miles I stopped, restarted the engine and the ABS reset and the lights went out. No problem for the rest of the day after stopping and restarting many times.

 

The next day the same thing happened on the first start in the mornings (the ABS lights remained on)but no problem on subsequent restarts.

 

I assumed the problem may be related to a battery that is going (it is three years old).I fiqure after the first start of the day and a little ride the battery is more fully charged.

 

However, before I go buy and install a new battery I cannot figure out why on the first start the ABS lights won't go out but if I immediately shut off the enigine and restart, no problem. Under those conditions no charging would have taken place.

 

Any ideas.

Thanks.

[Joe Frickin' Friday]

However, before I go buy and install a new battery I cannot figure out why on the first start the ABS lights won't go out but if I immediately shut off the enigine and restart, no problem. Under those conditions no charging would have taken place.

 

Your symptoms match a battery that's struggling to overcome the cold.

 

As for why it doesn't fault again after a second shutdown/restart...it doesn't take much combustion and movement to lube and loosen up everything in the engine. Not only that, but on a start immediately after a shutdown, fuel has already puddled in the intake port and is ready to feed the next intake event; you don't have to crank for very long before the engine fires up.

 

Also, since there's now been some electrical current flowing through the battery (during the previous start event), it's warmed up a smidge due to joule-heating and is now able to generate more cranking current without such a precipitous drop in voltage.

[arbee]

ABS is like PACMAN

It gobbles money & batteries to proceed down its path.

 

>>> >>>

[Orca]

ABS is like PACMAN

It gobbles money & batteries to proceed down its path.

 

>>> >>>

I don't get it! What does the battery condition have to do with the ABS function? The battery is used only for starting the engine. The electrics are run by the alternator. I will take twenty lashes with a frayed clutch cable if this is a stupid question. I'm also willing to learn as I too am having trouble with ABS.

[smiller]

I don't get it! What does the battery condition have to do with the ABS function?

The ABS controller monitors the bike's electrical system voltage and if it is too low for the ABS system to operate properly a fault will be indicated. Unfortunately if there is a high starter load (or low battery charge) the system voltage can drop low enough during a start for the ABS to think that there is a problem, causing a fault to be generated that requires an ignition on/off cycle to clear (and then often works OK on the second start for the reasons Mitch described.) This glitch is most acute in the 1100 bikes as it seems to have been largely remedied in later models.

[Perlova]

I can atest to that. My 1100 gets ABS errors quite often. But always clears after turning the ignition off and back on.

[Orca]

I can atest to that. My 1100 gets ABS errors quite often. But always clears after turning the ignition off and back on.

Yes mine did that all the time if it stalled then restarted but now I am unable to reset it at all. Guess I will have to go to a dealer.

[axabmw]

One simple thing to check . Is the brake lever sticking slightly. Try to tap it away from the bar. You may only need a new brake light switch

[bmwmick]

One simple thing to check . Is the brake lever sticking slightly. Try to tap it away from the bar. You may only need a new brake light switch

 

axa,

It has nothing to do with the brake light switches on the ABS-II bikes like the OP has. Read this for a description of the problem and one fix that I have tested successfully for the past 20K miles with NO Low Voltage Faults.

http://www.ibmwr.org/r-tech/oilheads/ABS-II_low_voltage_modification/index.shtml

 

Mick

[Little Joe]

I don't think this is a hijack. I had the ABS go OUT on the last leg of a 1500 mile tip in May. Rode 150 miles home with just the non-ABS brakes -- not a comfortable feeling. Dealer said at first that it was the aftermarket brake pedal enlarger, which they sold to me, that did not allow the pedal return spring to fully engage the brake switch. Then he traced it to the bolt and nut that I had to use as a replacement for the pin and clip that normally attaches the pedal to the actuator rod. The pin and clip fell off somewhere on Hwy 58. Pin and clip replaced under warranty, problem solved.

[George Brown]

I've been experiencing something similar for the last few months. When the problem first started it would be after cold starts. I would ride a few miles and do a quick off/on with the ignition switch while in third or fourth gear. Usually that is all it would take to reset the ABS.

 

A little background:

1) I installed my first Westco sealed battery last December.

2) I keep my bike in the garage which is not heated but never gets below freezing plus cold has not been an issue for the last 5 months.

3) I always keep the battery tender hooked up when it is garaged and I make sure the ignition switch is in the locked position. I say always because I have been very diligent about this since putting the Westco in.

 

A couple of months ago the problem worsened to the point that even after a warm restart (like after a gas stop), the ABS wouldn't reset until I rode for a few miles and did the quick off/on thing. A week ago after about a 40 mile ride, a 45 minute lunch stop, an additional 30 mile ride, I shut the bike down to take a couple of pictures and it wouldn't restart. No problem starting after the lunch stop. I jump started it by coasting down a small hill. However, almost immediately (within 2 miles) after the jump start I was able to reset the ABS with the off/on routine. On investigation, I found the lugs on my battery terminals loose.

 

Some more background:

My bike has always had a small electrical "leak". In the past if I left if off the battery tender for 3 or 4 days the battery would be dead. The previous owner had installed a full load of communications gear - CB radio, intercom, interface unit for cell phone and radar detector, push to talk switches and equipment selector switches, all J&M stuff. Plus it had the factory radio and tape deck. I've never used this stuff because I needed to buy earphones and connector cords. A few years ago I removed the factory radio and CB radio to get a little more storage space (The CB was tie-wrapped in the tail section. I've always suspected that the "leak" was associated with this equipment. Last week since I had the tupperware off and the time, I removed all the J&M stuff and all the extra wiring that I could find. I separated and taped up all the connectors for the factory radio and stuffed them in the bottom of the radio box. I also installed a connector for the battery tender right to the battery rather than through the accessory plug as I suspect that using the accessory plug might not be as tight as connection.

 

When I had the battery out of the bike I let it sit for a couple hours while not connected to the battery tender and checked the voltage. My VOM read 12.5 volts. I did not load test it. Before reinstalling it I put it a 2 amp trickle charger for about 1-hour.

After removing the charger I again checked the voltage and it read 12.5.

 

I completed this work on Thursday, and stored the bike on the battery tender until Saturday. The ABS reset as I rolled down my driveway after a cold start. After Saturday's ride I again put it on the battery tender and yesterday when I took it out the ABS did not reset immediately. However I did the off/on routine about 700 feet from my house and it reset. I still used the accessory plug on the dash for the battery tender as the cord will not reach the new connection as I installed it. My next move is to reroute the direct connection so my battery tender cord will reach it. Before someone asks, I have the battery tender sort of permanently mounted to my garage ceiling.

 

All along through this experience, I've been wondering if the battery tender is sufficient for the Westco battery as I never had this problem using conventional BMW batteries. Then when I found the loose connections I thought that was the reason. Now I am not sure. BTW, I did not just tighten the connections at the battery. I took everything apart and cleaned the battery posts and all the wire lugs on both sides before reassembly.

 

TIA for any suggestions or comments.

[George Brown]

I don't think this is a hijack. I had the ABS go OUT on the last leg of a 1500 mile tip in May. Rode 150 miles home with just the non-ABS brakes -- not a comfortable feeling. Dealer said at first that it was the aftermarket brake pedal enlarger, which they sold to me, that did not allow the pedal return spring to fully engage the brake switch. Then he traced it to the bolt and nut that I had to use as a replacement for the pin and clip that normally attaches the pedal to the actuator rod. The pin and clip fell off somewhere on Hwy 58. Pin and clip replaced under warranty, problem solved.

 

That is interesting, I also had a bolt and nut on my rear brake lever after loosing the clamp, however the pedal was still contacting the switch arm tightly and the light was on. When I took the switch out off the bike it would work fine if I moved the thin metal arm by hand. At least 30-40 times without failure. Upon reinstall, It would work fine for several tries then not shut off. I finally had to bend the thin metal arm a little. While I had this apart, removed the nut and bolt, so that I could remove the foot peg bracket to gain access to the switch. Upon reassembly, I installed a replacement clip but I did not turn the adjustment rod so the brake arm is essentially in the same position it was in when the bolt & nut was in place. Also, when I had the bolt and nut in, I used a lock nut having a nylon insert so I could leave it loose and not bind the connection. I never made a connection to having the brake light constantly on affecting the ABS and I'm still having a little problem doing that. But, it's hard to disagree with your experience.

[George Brown]

Rode 150 miles home with just the non-ABS brakes -- not a comfortable feeling.

 

Another comment. I would not be concerned about riding without ABS, especially in dry weather. Millions of miles have been logged on non-ABS equipped bikes in all kinds of weather.

 

I believe we all should know how to get by in life without our modern day conveniences. Sorta like knowing how to start a fire, read a map, navigate with a sextant if going to sea, using an analog compass, following a stream (are you reading this Vita Rara?), etc.

[BigAL]

Jeez. After reading this thread I'm a little concerned.

 

you see, I'm bringing my 2004 RT into the dealer Friday for a new ABS pump. I've been getting faults on my readout, and they were becoming more frequent. The dealer 'read' the faults and told me it was showing a high front/low rear pressure level (I assume it's in the brake lines). After a full flush job, hoping it would fix the problem, I went a few hundred miles with no problem, but now it's recurring again.

 

Luckily for me, BMW US is buying the part (the bike is a few months past warrantee, but BMW Fife made a request) so I'll have to pay for the labor (Which is mostly another full flush...what a waste of the first one).

 

Now, I HOPE this fixes the problem, and it's not something else (like a weak battery.....I was told by previous owner it's fresh...I'll have to check the receipt) I don't run a lot of electronics/electrcals -- some PIAAs, a BRAKE! light, and it's wired for a V1 and a Garmin (neither of which I have used yet).

 

At least I'll have a new and warranteed $2000 part...

 

AL

[Boffin]

Jeez. After reading this thread I'm a little concerned.

 

you see, I'm bringing my 2004 RT into the dealer Friday for a new ABS pump. I've been getting faults on my readout, and they were becoming more frequent. The dealer 'read' the faults and told me it was showing a high front/low rear pressure level (I assume it's in the brake lines). After a full flush job, hoping it would fix the problem, I went a few hundred miles with no problem, but now it's recurring again.

 

Luckily for me, BMW US is buying the part (the bike is a few months past warrantee, but BMW Fife made a request) so I'll have to pay for the labor (Which is mostly another full flush...what a waste of the first one).

 

Now, I HOPE this fixes the problem, and it's not something else (like a weak battery.....I was told by previous owner it's fresh...I'll have to check the receipt) I don't run a lot of electronics/electrcals -- some PIAAs, a BRAKE! light, and it's wired for a V1 and a Garmin (neither of which I have used yet).

 

At least I'll have a new and warranteed $2000 part...

 

AL

 

The 1150 has a different ABS system to the 1100 and is not affected by weak batteries in the same way.

 

Andy

[Little Joe]

Rode 150 miles home with just the non-ABS brakes -- not a comfortable feeling.

 

Another comment. I would not be concerned about riding without ABS, especially in dry weather. Millions of miles have been logged on non-ABS equipped bikes in all kinds of weather.

 

I believe we all should know how to get by in life without our modern day conveniences. Sorta like knowing how to start a fire, read a map, navigate with a sextant if going to sea, using an analog compass, following a stream (are you reading this Vita Rara?), etc.

 

I agree, though I haven't touched a sextant in 30 years since a stint as a quartermaster in the USCG.

 

It was just an odd feeling, being used to all that braking power at (literally) my fingertips, then having it taken away. I was on a Pashnit.com favorite called Cottonwood Road, which can be exhilirating. That day, it was just kind of like work. Lots of lever pull with sluggish and weak response. Without the mechanical assistance, I didn't even have the level of confidence in my front brakes that I had in my '75 CB750.

[Little Joe]

That is interesting, I also had a bolt and nut on my rear brake lever after loosing the clamp, however the pedal was still contacting the switch arm tightly and the light was on. When I took the switch out off the bike it would work fine if I moved the thin metal arm by hand. At least 30-40 times without failure. Upon reinstall, It would work fine for several tries then not shut off. I finally had to bend the thin metal arm a little. While I had this apart, removed the nut and bolt, so that I could remove the foot peg bracket to gain access to the switch. Upon reassembly, I installed a replacement clip but I did not turn the adjustment rod so the brake arm is essentially in the same position it was in when the bolt & nut was in place. Also, when I had the bolt and nut in, I used a lock nut having a nylon insert so I could leave it loose and not bind the connection. I never made a connection to having the brake light constantly on affecting the ABS and I'm still having a little problem doing that. But, it's hard to disagree with your experience.

 

I probably expressed myself poorly or used the wrong terms. I used a stainless metric Allen-head screw sized to fit the hole in the yoke on the rod, then fastened a self-locking nut to it. Thought it looked pretty slick for an emergency road repair, but apparently the screw/nut combination is heavier enough than the clevis pin that the return spring couldn't raise the assembly enough to engage (disengage?) the switch that permits the ABS self diagnostics to initiate on startup. No diagnostics, no ABS, no mechanically-assisted brakes, no fun (at least for me) in the twisties that day.

[russell_bynum]

Rode 150 miles home with just the non-ABS brakes -- not a comfortable feeling.

 

Another comment. I would not be concerned about riding without ABS, especially in dry weather. Millions of miles have been logged on non-ABS equipped bikes in all kinds of weather.

 

I believe we all should know how to get by in life without our modern day conveniences. Sorta like knowing how to start a fire, read a map, navigate with a sextant if going to sea, using an analog compass, following a stream (are you reading this Vita Rara?), etc.

 

I agree, though I haven't touched a sextant in 30 years since a stint as a quartermaster in the USCG.

 

It was just an odd feeling, being used to all that braking power at (literally) my fingertips, then having it taken away. I was on a Pashnit.com favorite called Cottonwood Road, which can be exhilirating. That day, it was just kind of like work. Lots of lever pull with sluggish and weak response. Without the mechanical assistance, I didn't even have the level of confidence in my front brakes that I had in my '75 CB750.

 

It sounds like you lost power assist. That's a much bigger deal.

 

I'm not sure if you can lose ABS but retain power assist on the servo brake systems.

 

The OP's bike has the ABS-II system that does not have power assist. ABS can go away and you've still got full braking force...just no anti-lock.

[Ken H.]

I'm not sure if you can lose ABS but retain power assist on the servo brake systems.

In theory you could. The ABS logic system could have an issue preventing it from modulating the servos correctly when ABS needed, yet they still run correctly during normal operation.

[BigAL]

The 1150 has a different ABS system to the 1100 and is not affected by weak batteries in the same way.

 

So a weak battery may not be giving me erroneous faults ? That would be good to know, reassuring that I won't be throwing good money after bad...

[UberXY]

A few weeks ago when I was in Vt. (it was cold overnight about 38 degrees). The bike started right up but the ABS lights keep flashing. After a few miles I stopped, restarted the engine and the ABS reset and the lights went out. No problem for the rest of the day after stopping and restarting many times.

 

The next day the same thing happened on the first start in the mornings (the ABS lights remained on)but no problem on subsequent restarts.

 

I assumed the problem may be related to a battery that is going (it is three years old).I fiqure after the first start of the day and a little ride the battery is more fully charged.

 

However, before I go buy and install a new battery I cannot figure out why on the first start the ABS lights won't go out but if I immediately shut off the enigine and restart, no problem. Under those conditions no charging would have taken place.

 

Any ideas.

Thanks.

 

The ABS on my 99 R1100S was so voltage sensitive that it would flash errors if I started the bike with the high beams on. Never with low beams. Happened every time.

 

Never a problem with my R1150.

[zbassman]

I have a '00 R1100RT that just started giving me the ABS fault warning. It was fine in the morning, I went to lunch, after I got on the bike and the ABS started doing the alternate flash warning.

 

I tried riding a bit and restarting the bike no luck. I rode home 35 miles, mostly along country roads with no stops, got home and restarted the bike, ABS still faulting.

 

Question:

 

From what I understand with the '00 R1100RT even without ABS the brakes should continue to function albeit without the ABS feature. True or false?

 

Also, are there some simple things I can try or check before I take it in to the dealer and end up having to put his kids through college to get the ABS fixed? (I am not a mechanically adept or knowledgeable guy, so I need the "Dummies" version

 

Thanks,

 

Dan

[russell_bynum]

From what I understand with the '00 R1100RT even without ABS the brakes should continue to function albeit without the ABS feature. True or false?

 

Definitely true.

 

Also, are there some simple things I can try or check before I take it in to the dealer and end up having to put his kids through college to get the ABS fixed? (I am not a mechanically adept or knowledgeable guy, so I need the "Dummies" version

 

The most common problem is a bad battery.

 

Probably next on the list would be a bad sensor.

 

Check out the Oilhead Maintenance Manual over on ibmwr. There's a procedure for using an ANALOG (not digital) volt meter to read the motronic fault codes. Right after that is a procedure for reading the ABS fault codes.

[just_another_airhead]

I have this same problem with the ABS not initializing, but have noticed a pattern, not mentioned yet. According to the OM, the lights flash alternately if the ABS was OK while previously running. If they did not initialize last time they both flash at once (97 R1100RS). This mostly seems to be true. However, the ABS will never seem to initialize when the lights are alternately flashing, cold or warm. It seems to always work when both lights are flashing at once. Anyone have any insight into this? I'm about ready to take it to the dealer.

 

P.S. I love BMWs and have ridden them for years, but this ABS routine has caused me to have very bad thoughts about the evil engineer who devised this system-- especially the fact that the stupid ABS button on the dash only stops the lights for a few minutes. How much better if this button did something useful, like resetting the ABS without having to turn off the key! (O.K. rant over-- I feel better now)