New iPods Announced

[smiller]

Steve Jobs just announced the new iPod lineup at Moscone Center. Basically:

 

iPod Touch - The player-only iPhone that everyone has been talking about. Similar form factor to iPhone but thinner (8 mm vs. 11.6 mm). WiFi enabled, can download from iTunes via WiFi, has a mini-Safari browser allowing web surfing, and YouTube. [home and player-to-player use of the WiFi feature to transfer music wasn't discussed, not sure if that is supported]. Similar UI to the iPhone, with album art scroll, etc. Uses standard 30-pin iPod connector, most existing accessories will work. 8GB is $299, 16GB is $399, available next month. [sadly, I guess this means no hard drive version.]

 

Via agreement with Starbucks, iTouch users will be able to purchase and download the music being played overhead in Starbucks stores with a dedicated button. Will be supported in most metro stores by YE 2008 and nationwide by 2009. [These slick marketing tie-ins are beginning to make my head hurt.]

 

Anyway, no doubt the iTouch will be an enormous seller.

 

Original iPod will still be available as the 'iPod Classic' with an enhanced UI. $249 for 80GB, 160GB is $349.

 

New Nano with a new 2" screen, 320x240 resolution. All-metal case available. Two versions: 4GB is $149, 8GB is $199.

 

Both iPod Classic and Nano are available today via mail order, should be in stores by this weekend.

 

BTW 8gb iPhones are $399 effective today.

 

- 30 -

[ghaverkamp]

No squirting, from what I can tell...

[smiller]

Really kind of bummed about the 16gb maximum, especially for such a good video device. The iTouch was going to mark my defection to Apple but 16gb just won't come close to cutting it for me. But probably OK for most I guess, in fact Creative's new flagship model (the Zen) is a 16gb flash device as well. At least the Zen supports HD SD cards so one can expand up to 32 gb and beyond, and swap cards with movies in and out so you don't have to take up all your music space with video. I sure wish the iTouch had this simple feature.

 

But that UI... a killer. Unless the storage capacity issue turns out to be a bigger deal than I think, bye bye Zune... which never had much of a chance to begin with, and now Apple has just swatted it.

[ghaverkamp]

Really kind of bummed about the 16gb maximum, especially for such a good video device.

 

My entire music library fits comfortably in 6 GB on my 8 GB nano. The video would be nice, the WiFi excellent, and the ability to have a small device to whip out to surf on may be more valuable to me than the music or video.

 

What I really want is for Apple to get the application platform better developed on this mobile OS X.

[smiller]

My entire music library fits comfortably in 6 GB on my 8 GB nano.

You and the majority of the market (Apple isn't stupid), but for many users 16gb (and unexpandable) will be a letdown. For me the capacity issue is more important than slick factor/size. But at least Apple retained the iPod for those who prefer more capacity. Would love to have the WiFi feature though, but since the main purpose of the thing is to play music I don't want to compromise there. Damn, still two devices for me. Maybe next year...

[ghaverkamp]

Maybe next year...

 

I think it's just a matter of time. Not so much for Apple to add removable storage, which I don't imagine will happen. I don't expect to see it, because Apple's obsession with simplifying means that finding files any way other than synchronizing through iTunes would be bad. At least, that's my take.

 

However, as flash capacities grow, I'm sure Apple's offerings will grow. Frankly, I'm surprised they capped it at 16 GB. I'm guessing that the component costs of the new OS X-based devices is higher than the costs for the old devices, and they couldn't eat the cost of more flash.

[bakerzdosen]

Yeah, I'm with you guys on this one. It's good, but not perfect yet. However, I've always taken my laptop on motorcycling trips. The iPod Touch would eliminate the need for that. However, a 160GB HD based Touch woulda been nice too... except for the fact that my 20GB iPod has a tendency to freeze up in really cold weather, so flash has its place too.

 

Apparently the rest of the world thinks that these things are well worth looking at as Apple's web site is getting hammered.

[velomoto]

Maybe next year...

 

I think it's just a matter of time. Not so much for Apple to add removable storage, which I don't imagine will happen. I don't expect to see it, because Apple's obsession with simplifying means that finding files any way other than synchronizing through iTunes would be bad. At least, that's my take.

 

However, as flash capacities grow, I'm sure Apple's offerings will grow. Frankly, I'm surprised they capped it at 16 GB. I'm guessing that the component costs of the new OS X-based devices is higher than the costs for the old devices, and they couldn't eat the cost of more flash.

Don't hold yer breath. Apple doesn't seem to want devices which "users" can open - or to put it another way Apple wants control of these devices. For example, ever try opening an iPod mini or nano to replace the battery? The quantity of flash will continue to climb but don't expect any sort of flash card support - external flash allows people to "share" music more easily. As for replaceable batteries, I've heard rumors of litigation over the new iPhones. Guess people don't want to be without their iPhone when the battery wears out in a year or so.

[velomoto]

Steve Jobs just announced the new iPod lineup at Moscone Center. Basically:

 

New Nano with a new 2" screen, 320x240 resolution. All-metal case available. Two versions: 4GB is $149, 8GB is $199.

IMHO one really big improvement with the new nano is battery life - 25 hours of music!

[Mike O]

I just don't find this interesting any more. While GUI improvements are a great step in the right direction (I like the iPhone GUI), fundamentally, the memory limitations are s show stopper for me. That, and I have a Palm Tx (with a LARGE screen, wifi, bluetooth...yadda, yadda, yadda) that's expandable (I have several 2GB cards) will play mp3's, doesn't require headset adapters, has a sh!tty browser (but I can live with that) and the battery lasts a LONG time.

 

They should have left a hard drive in there. Then, like you, I might have taken an interest in it.

 

Why can't they just get this right the first time? (iPhone not tied to AT&T, that accepts memory cards - that ain't rocket science)

 

Mike O

[smiller]

Why can't they just get this right the first time? (iPhone not tied to AT&T, that accepts memory cards - that ain't rocket science)

They have it right from their perspective... it's making them the maximum amount of money. If we as consumers suck it all up then that's our fault.

 

A shame because the iPhone/iTouch hardware is really quite amazing. 'Tis a pity that so much of its potential is intentionally crippled.

[velomoto]

'Tis a pity that so much of its potential is intentionally crippled.

Just like my last few Verizon phones which have features disabled so Verizon can sell me their data backup service, etc. etc...

 

BTW, there is an iPhone "hack" which allows one to use the iPhone with other cell companies - but seeing that one must sign up for a 2 year Cingular/AT&T plan to get the iPhone I don't see much value in the hack.

[bakerzdosen]

BTW, there is an iPhone "hack" which allows one to use the iPhone with other cell companies - but seeing that one must sign up for a 2 year Cingular/AT&T plan to get the iPhone I don't see much value in the hack.

Nope, you haven't been paying close enough attention. You buy the iPhone. It's yours. No contract. Nada. End of discussion. HOWEVER, if you by some odd chance want to use ANY of the features (other than "door stop") on said iPhone (that's yours... because you bought it), you then log into iTunes and activate your iPhone. To activate it, you need to pick an AT&T plan and agree to a 2 year contract. Soooo, if you can skip that last step and activate it some other way (read: hack), that would allow you to actually use your iPhone without a contract.

 

With that said, today's price drop is suddenly making the iPhone more attractive to me. I simply wish they (AT&T) would allow business contracts instead of individual/consumer contracts/plans with the iPhone.

[ghaverkamp]

Nope, you haven't been paying close enough attention.

 

Nope, he hasn't. Because the batteries don't die in a year, either. Even if they did, people wouldn't have to go without while getting them replaced. And the lawsuits, which are not rumored but actual, are all but mooted by the revelation that their claims fail miserably.

[bakerzdosen]

Because the batteries don't die in a year, either.

Good point. My 5+ year old 20GB ipod is on it's second (higher capacity I might add) battery and it's still kicking strong. I can still get 24+ hours playback out of the thing in temps above freezing.

[Mike O]

They have it right from their perspective... it's making them the maximum amount of money. If we as consumers suck it all up then that's our fault.

 

A shame because the iPhone/iTouch hardware is really quite amazing. 'Tis a pity that so much of its potential is intentionally crippled.

Baloney...

 

You yourself have commented at least twice in this thread:

The iTouch was going to mark my defection to Apple but 16gb just won't come close to cutting it for me.

Just like you, if they corrected this shortcoming, they'd sell 2 more. And at what cost to them? They're not in the memory business, so how would that impact them? (Apple is about the only cel phone manufacturer that doesn't offer provision for extra memory). It also doesn't affect the choice of carriers they use, or quality/reliability. So, IMHO, they've missed out on making the 'maximum amount of money'. Like I said, it ain't rocket science.

 

But who are we to argue with success of the iPod/iPhone/iLemming products despite their shortcomings.

 

Mike O

[1analguy]

Don't be so hot for a hard drive version. My wife's 40gig iPod has been replaced twice for hard drive failures, and believe me, she has always treated it with great care...

[ghaverkamp]

But who are we to argue with success of the iPod/iPhone/iLemming products despite their shortcomings.

 

iLemming?

 

Yes, all us mindless chumps who appreciate Apple's products are just following the crowd. It's not possible that one could appreciate the benefits of the clean interfaces and better design.

 

Adding expansion capability brings with it dependencies of the type that Apple tends to eschew. If you add a memory card, you suddenly need interface components to manage insertion and extraction. You need a means for people to put content on the memory card. And more importantly, you add confusion to the whole DRM situation, which is a problem that lies squarely at the feet of the media companies.

 

Features that most people won't use only gets in the way of most people. You end up with an interface on mobile devices like those of Windows Mobile. Ugly, filled with lots of useless junk, and incredibly difficult to get at what I really want.

 

Simplicity is a product benefit, not a drawback, and I don't think one is a blind follower for recognizing that.

[smiller]

Adding expansion capability brings with it dependencies of the type that Apple tends to eschew. If you add a memory card, you suddenly need interface components to manage insertion and extraction. You need a means for people to put content on the memory card. And more importantly, you add confusion to the whole DRM situation, which is a problem that lies squarely at the feet of the media companies.

Oh c'mon, a memory expansion card would add benefits way out of proportion to the very minor negative aspects and iTunes could very easily manage an expansion card and make it easy to use. Also, I don't see how a memory card causes any complications with DRM... it's no different than the issues involved with using DRM tracks on multiple computers, which has been supported since day one.

 

16gb of non-expandable memory is a pretty serious limitation for many users, especially for a device that supports video.

[ghaverkamp]

Oh c'mon, a memory expansion card would add benefits way out of proportion to the very minor negative aspects and iTunes could very easily manage an expansion card and make it easy to use. Also, I don't see how a memory card causes any complications with DRM... it's no different than the issues involved with using DRM tracks on multiple computers, which has been supported since day one.

 

Obviously, Apple disagrees with you, as do I.

 

It's more than iTunes knowing about how to manage a memory expansion card. The iPod has to know how to manage a memory expansion card. What's more, it has to know how to present a consistent experience to a user whether the same card is in place all the time. It has to know how to handle an ejection and an insertion. There'd be file naming issues.

 

The "we'll just add another menu or toolbar icon" is a Microsoft solution that sophisticated users may be perfectly fine with. It's an attitude that clearly can't comprehend that Apple leaves off features not because some small subset of users want them and use them (like terrestrial radio reception) but because they're used little enough that cluttering an interface and dealing with other random problems isn't a big deal.

 

As to the DRM issue, it is a big deal. If I take my memory card out of my iPod with DRM-encumbered music and try to put it in another iPod, I'd expect it to just play. But it can't just play, because devices have to be activated. So, now I've got to activate that other iPod. That means managing another iPod. And once I've done that, why do I need to exchange memory expansion cards at all?

 

Oh, right. Just through another menu or toolbar icon at it...

 

16gb of non-expandable memory is a pretty serious limitation for many users, especially for a device that supports video.

 

Clearly, it's not a serious issue for too many users. If it was, the competitive devices would sell more.

[russell_bynum]

I agree with Greg on this point. Keeping the features down to only the stuff that the majority want keeps the interface clean. The clean interface is what I really appreciate about my iPod. Sure, it doesn't have some of the nifty wizbang features that I can get with other devices, but it does 90% of the stuff I want it to do and doesn't have any extra clutter.

 

The DRM issues with removable media are definitely real. I could see that as being big headache.

 

I agree that 16gb is too small for a video player. I think our music collection is somewhere around 8-10gb, so that wouldn't leave much space for video.

 

I don't have any reason to upgrade right now anyway...my 80gb video iPod is less than a year old and should be perfectly fine for my needs for the forseeable future. By the time I'm ready to upgrade, I expect they'll be offering 100+gb flash-memory iPods.

[Mike O]

Come on, Greg...Adding memory capacity has been solved thousands of times. This is Apple, the technology company, right? They've solved several of the GUI limitations present on other competing offerings. And you're telling me they're not technical capable of solving (and making transparent as EVERYONE else has) dynamic memory on an iPhone?

 

They ALREADY have to handle products with multiple memory capacities, and no additional menu selections are required and iTunes handles that. Consistent user experience? Let's see, when the memory card is NOT in the iPhone, the songs/video aren't there. Geeze...that's pretty difficult for a user to figure out.

As to the DRM issue, it is a big deal. If I take my memory card out of my iPod with DRM-encumbered music and try to put it in another iPod, I'd expect it to just play. But it can't just play, because devices have to be activated. So, now I've got to activate that other iPod. That means managing another iPod. And once I've done that, why do I need to exchange memory expansion cards at all?

I never said anything about moving around cards between players. As you state, why the heck would I want multiple players, anyway? As you said, earlier, your collection fits on an 8GB iPod. Good for you. Are you going to go buy ANOTHER iPod when your collection grows and your iPod runs out of capacity? Funny, I've never had this problem storing (or moving) my memory card (containing hundreds of MP3 songs/pictures/etc.) between one device to another I own. Oh and if I want to watch a movie, I dont' have to unload several hundred songs to make room for the movie (I load it on another memory card I have). I don't have to go purchase an entire NEW device.

 

Look, Apple has a grand slam with the iPod/iPhone etc. (didn't use the other label with you clearly object to). Seth (and my) original point was that they would open the market even further and win over a few more converts by allowing dynamic memory integrated into their product (technology that's been around for what...10yrs now?). I find it surprising that you're insinuating the technically superior development staff at Apple can't pull this off. I'm certain they can! I like Apple products and quite frankly, if their technology (less their inability to provide expansion) is mimicked by ALL the other manufacturers, I'd be thankful and we'd all be a bit better off.

 

But let's talk about the REAL reasons this expandability isn't available. Apple wants a recurring revenue stream. Once you buy into the iWhatever, with it's memory limitations, Apple knows that when you run out of capacity, you're likely to buy a new higher capacity device. I'd prefer to NOT be tied to that model. I prefer to upgrade when there is real user experience differences worthy of the expense (much like the iPhone). Being forced to upgrade the iPhone, because of memory limitations (and not because otherwise serious new functionality) goes against my grain.

 

Mike O

[smiller]

The "we'll just add another menu or toolbar icon" is a Microsoft solution that sophisticated users may be perfectly fine with.

I'm not sure if that is only a 'Microsoft solution', but I guess I'm a part of that rare group that would prefer to have access to a desired capability than see it stripped out because less sophisticated users can't comprehend it... aka the 'Apple solution.' Contrary to popular belief I can comprehend why they do it... I'm just not a target customer for dumbed-down products I suppose.

 

And, BTW, they somehow managed to find room for the 'Starbucks' button...

[ghaverkamp]

Okay. I still disagree, Mike, perhaps more since it's clear to me you're talking about fixed expansion and not portable expansion. However, the dreaded form timeout ate my homework.

 

Rather than continuing to argue the interface issues, since those dealt with the portable storage and not expandable storage, I know of no vendor who does simply expandable storage and not portable storage. What's more, I know of no vendor who does it transparently, despite your claim that everyone but Apple does it. Archos sure as hell doesn't do it.

 

Beyond that, I'd point out that you're never forced to upgrade anything for more storage, and in very few instances have new iPods come out offering only additional storage but no new features, this new batch as a perfect example. More importantly, who the hell needs to carry tens of gigabytes of the same music on them at all times? Why do you need tens of gigabytes of the same videos at all times? Let some of it go. However, as a storage guru, Mike, I'm sure that's all heresy, and I apologize for any emotional distress my comments about less storage may have caused.

[russell_bynum]

More importantly, who the hell needs to carry tens of gigabytes of the same music on them at all times?

 

Convenience.

 

I don't want to have to decide what music or video I want available to me today. Just sync my entire library and I'll figure out what I want on the fly.

[ghaverkamp]

More importantly, who the hell needs to carry tens of gigabytes of the same music on them at all times?

 

Convenience.

 

I don't want to have to decide what music or video I want available to me today. Just sync my entire library and I'll figure out what I want on the fly.

 

Convenience ain't a need. Mike was talking about planned obsolescence and being forced to upgrade.

[smiller]

More importantly, who the hell needs to carry tens of gigabytes of the same music on them at all times?

Surely you're being disingenuous here as while you may not personally need it you must be able to see the potential requirement for more space. One of the most captivating facets of a personal media player is the incredible (for those of us old enough to have a wall of LPs) capability to carry your entire library with you in your pocket. Yes, if your library won't fit into 16gb you can try to anticipate what mood you might be in and what you might want to listen to in advance, but I'm not very good when it comes to that kind of prescience. The obvious and simple solution is to simply have it all.

[Mike O]

I know of no vendor who does simply expandable storage and not portable storage. What's more, I know of no vendor who does it transparently, despite your claim that everyone but Apple does it.

Greg, I have both a Palm Treo and a Palm Tx. I routinely add more storage capacity as I need it. I've bought 2GB mini-sd cards for $20. Load em' up with music and plug them in either the Treo or the Palm Tx. Neither device complains. And it's presented to me as just new additional music selections. No new GUI options, No new configurations, registering of music, nothing...nada. How much simpler can it get?

However, as a storage guru, Mike, I'm sure that's all heresy,...

No apologize necessary. You have raised rather compelling arguments (as always). Actually Greg, I'm speaking purely from a personal viewpoint and not from a 'storage guru' perspective, although I've enjoyed watching the increase in storage densities and decline in pricing. I'm confident the density/price will continue to benefit the consumer.

 

Let's try a different but still relevant example. Most folks I know now use digital cameras. Memory capacity (and naturally pixel densities) are the limiting factor in how many pictures one can store on that camera. If Canon were to sell a camera whose capacity was only 2 day's of vacation pics, are they forcing me to go and purchase 6 additional cameras for my 2 week vacation? No, they recognize they are in the photo (not memory) business. They rely on new feature (generally increases in photo resolution) to lure new users to their product. I'll buy my next Canon, based on the photo capabilities and would steer away from any vendor limiting the product's basic usefulness by some other method. I would encourage Apple to do the same. Focus on the products' real differentiators: ease of use, integration with iTunes, great GUI, and audio quality. What Apple is doing with it's memory limitations makes no technical sense to me, and I've yet to be convinced otherwise.

 

Mike O

[russell_bynum]

Convenience ain't a need. Mike was talking about planned obsolescence and being forced to upgrade.

 

Agreed.

 

Neither are iPods, for that matter.

[Mike O]

Convenience ain't a need. Mike was talking about planned obsolescence and being forced to upgrade.

 

Agreed.

 

Neither are iPods, for that matter.

Planned obsolescence is what Apple is counting on happening. It's exactly what many are trying to avoid. Having all your digital media handy on a single device is certainly convenient, carrying an extra mini-sd card less so. But having to carry multiple iPods or toss it when it's reach its capacity is ludicrous (especially when there is a simple alternative they could design into their products.) Honestly, read my example using the Camera above.

 

And with that I've now flogged this horse beyond recognition. I'm going back the FD threads (or starting a new oil thread)

 

Mike O

[ghaverkamp]

And with that I've now flogged this horse beyond recognition. I'm going back the FD threads (or starting a new oil thread)

 

No need to do that...

 

Do I need to buy an Apple carrying case for my iPod? Will Apple honor my warranty if I use a aftermarket part?

[ghaverkamp]

In other news about the money-grubbing, customer-hating company.

[smiller]

In other news about the money-grubbing, customer-hating company.

What a money-grubbing, customer-hating ploy.

[russell_bynum]

In other news about the money-grubbing, customer-hating company.

 

That's astonishing.

[David]

In other news about the money-grubbing, customer-hating company.

What a money-grubbing, customer-hating ploy.

 

It probably would have been posted a lot earlier but he was in a business center at a hotel and had to write it in Microsoft Word.

[HexHead]

'

 

BTW, there is an iPhone "hack" which allows one to use the iPhone with other cell companies - but seeing that one must sign up for a 2 year Cingular/AT&T plan to get the iPhone I don't see much value in the hack.

 

You don't have to sign up for anything to buy the phone from an Apple Store.

[superjohn]

I love my 60GB iPod, but my music collection has outgrown it, so I'll probably bite the bullet and get the 160GB model this weekend.

 

I see the iPod Touch as a different model. It's for those people that want to pop into a coffee shop or something while they're out and have some tunes to listen to and a way to check news and weather and whatnot, without having to bring along a laptop. In fact, I'll probably skip replacing my laptop with a new Mac Book and just get an iPod Touch to surf the web on and whatnot.

 

The real beauty about Apple is, even their detractors can't help but talk about their products. I mean, this is a motorcycle forum and there's a thread about iPods. Every motorcycle forum I read has a thread on the new iPods. No one else has yet been able to pull off marketing like that.

[smiller]

You don't have to sign up for anything to buy the phone from an Apple Store.

No, but my understanding is that you must activate the unit with AT&T on a full service plan in order for the WiFi functionality to work. Not certain about that though.

[ghaverkamp]

No, but my understanding is that you must activate the unit with AT&T on a full service plan in order for the WiFi functionality to work. Not certain about that though.

 

Without one of the hacks, that is correct. In fact, pretty much any function other than a screen telling you to activate requires activation or a hack. (One hack is apparently as easy as signing up for AT&T and then canceling under their 30-day cancellation policy.)

[keithb]

Oh the joys of being iPodless and iPhoneless is sweet music.

[HexHead]

 

 

Oh the joys of being iPodless and iPhoneless is sweet music.

 

Luddite.

[jimswms]

alright, I'm not geeky enough to be up on all this. After reading this thread, I'm amazed that there is a device that can do what this itouch can, and, amazed that there is an ipod coming out with a 160gig capacity!

 

Very cool stuff, but, I have not drank the apple kool aid, even though I'm typing this on a macbook.

 

My MP3 player is an iriver. I'm in the market for a new one, and, it could be an ipod or not, but, the idea of having my music and being able to surf the web is pretty #$%^&* cool!

 

soooo, lead me. what else is out there? Or, is Apple it? Someone has got to be right behind them (or, ahead of them?) with this stuff. I leave on a moto trip in a couple weeks and having web access would be really cool. I'm ready to head on down to the Apple store TONIGHT for one of these itouch's...

[smiller]

soooo, lead me. what else is out there? Or, is Apple it?

If you want a web browser/MP3 player combo then look no further, Apple is it (unless you are willing to go with one of the higher-end PDAs, which might provide more value for the money but along with their capabilities comes a much more complex operating environment.) Sticking to the dedicated music/video player realm the nearest competition would be the Creative Zen . The Zen has some features that the iTouch does not, such as the ability to set custom equalizer settings and the ability to accept SD memory expansion cards. But it doesn't have WiFi (and worst of all... no Starbucks music download button! .) As usual, what is best depends on what features are important to you. As I mentioned earlier as neat as it is the iTouch wouldn't do for me as the 16gb limit for music and video would be hit as soon as I got it home.

 

If you really want portable WiFi access (and don't need more than 16gb) and are already happy with your existing cellular service then the iTouch may be a better choice that the iPhone because unlike the iPhone the iTouch doesn't require an expensive AT&T service plan contract in order to activate the WiFi feature.

 

Or you could just zone it all out and go for that 160gb iPod Classic...

[David]

Click here for a fun little article on why Apple is the new Microsoft.

[smiller]

None of his files — now totaling 300 songs and 50 movies — will play on the new player. He bought and paid for all this content, but it only works with iPods and iTunes. Apple has an iPod customer for life.

 

Or they have lost a customer for life...

[ghaverkamp]

None of his files — now totaling 300 songs and 50 movies — will play on the new player. He bought and paid for all this content, but it only works with iPods and iTunes. Apple has an iPod customer for life.

 

Or they have lost a customer for life...

 

Of course, that, and the whole monopoly section were deeply flawed. If you bought 300 programs for Windows, you're always stuck with Windows, after all.

 

(There are plenty of other flaws, of course. No requirement for iTunes to activate an iPhone, no requirement for iTunes to put music on an iPod, etc.)

 

There are plenty of ways to attack Apple. This was just another tired rehashing of the same broken, narrow-minded theme used by most.

[smiller]

If you bought 300 programs for Windows, you're always stuck with Windows, after all.

Not the same thing at all. Most people would not have the expectation that a Windows program would work under another OS, it has never been any other way. Conversely, most people would expect that their purchased music would play on any brand player, it has never been any other way... until the (intentionally unheralded) advent of DRM, that is.

[ghaverkamp]

Conversely, most people would expect that their purchased music would play on any brand player, it has never been any other way... until the (intentionally unheralded) advent of DRM, that is.

 

Why would people who have bought vinyl, 8-tracks, cassettes, MDs, DVD-Audio, etc., ever believe that their music is portable?

[smiller]

Why would people who have bought vinyl, 8-tracks, cassettes, MDs, DVD-Audio, etc., ever believe that their music is portable?

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. What I'm talking about is the fact that:

 

A vinyl LP can be played on any brand record player.

An 8-track tape can be played on any brand 8-track player.

An audio cassette can be played back on any brand cassette player.

An MD can be played on any brand MD player.

A DVD audio disk can be played on any brand DVD audio disk player.

A CD can be played on any brand CD player.

A track purchased via iTunes can be played only on an Apple product.

[John in VA]

A track purchased via iTunes can be played only on an Apple product.

 

Simply not true.