Off Duty Officer Killed

[pokorskij]

Here is a link to the story. Off-duty Officer on motorcycle, hit from behind, by drunk illegal immigrant.

 

www.theoaklandpress.com/stories/082907/loc_20070829147.shtml

[smiller]

Sad story.

 

Your point?

[John in VA]

Second degree murder?

[W. Mazelin]

Sad story.

 

Your point?

The point is probably that it's another illegal immigrant who killed a US citizen. An all too familiar scene.

[RPG]

Defense attorney Arthur Greenstone asked for leniency on the bond, saying Pineda and his family are heartbroken over what happened.

 

Pineda didn't mean to hurt anyone, but only wanted to run from the scene because of his illegal resident status, Greenstone told the court.

 

He has also been employed for the last five years as a cook at a Clarkston restaurant, Greenstone said. Members of D'Anna's family left the courtroom as Greenstone continued to ask for leniency on setting his bond.

 

"His 1-year-old son and his wife are here. I It appears this is a one-time incident, and it is awful, but there is no history of substance abuse or violence," Greenstone told the court. "If you scratch this catastrophe, you will find someone who has been a productive member of this community."

 

 

This whole part of the dialogue is extremely disturbing to me.

Why do illegal aliens get Defense attorney's? (yes I am assuming that one was appointed to him at taspayer's expense)

 

"Didn't mean to hurt anyone" Yeah, never met a drunk yet who didn't say the same thing.

 

The restaurant where he was employed at for five years didn't know he was illegal? Where was the Social Security money going to that would/should have been deducted from his paycheck each week?

 

Productive member of the community? Is this the same lawyer who defended O.J? The guy is an illegal alien who killed a cop. Years ago when a police officer was killed, it was BIG NEWS. Manhunts were organized. Perps got life sentences. Now it's some sort of trivial mistake and the perp is really a good guy, a productive member of society ya know.

 

Pleeeeasssse

 

RPG

[John in VA]

This whole part of the dialogue is extremely disturbing to me.

Why do illegal aliens get Defense attorney's? (yes I am assuming that one was appointed to him at taspayer's expense)

 

I guess for the same reason every illegal alien (and anyone else) goes before a criminal judge when they are arrested for committing crimes in this country. It must be of those annoying Constitutional things. The defense attorney is just doing his job as an officer of the court -- as you'd like him to do if it were you in the dock. Should he not? And I'm no lawyer (nor am I an illegal alien-lover nor a drunk-lover), but charging a drunk driver with murder seems dicey unless he's had a string of prior DWIs. Yes, the motorcyclist was killed, but was he murdered?

[velomoto]

The restaurant where he was employed at for five years didn't know he was illegal? Where was the Social Security money going to that would/should have been deducted from his paycheck each week?

This is part of the reason why it is impossible to get an accurate account of whether illegal aliens are subsidizing the government or a financial burden. Those employed with stolen SSN's do pay federal/state taxes and social security into the government but are unable to file refunds or collect. So to answer your question, this person's SS taxes and the employer's contribution both went to the same bottomless pit as your SS taxes.

[Lawman]

While watching my wife complete the on line defensive driving course last night I learned that 50% of all auto crash fatalities in Texas involve a D.U.I. driver...I find it mind boggling that we tolerate D.U.I. and Fleeing in an Auto to the extent that we do..We would put someone in prison who walked into a crowded classroom and began indiscriminately firing a gun but we seldom take any meaningful action against a D.U.I. offender or someone who flees from police in a vehicle unless someone gets killed. I think that's screwed up......

[smiller]

The point is probably that it's another illegal immigrant who killed a US citizen.

Perhaps. I was just wondering what facet of the story we were all supposed to beat our chests about this time, that a LEO was killed, that it was DUI, that an illegal was involved, etc. I want to be sure to be on-topic...

[W8NONU]

While watching my wife complete the on line defensive driving course last night I learned that 50% of all auto crash fatalities in Texas involve a D.U.I. driver...I find it mind boggling that we tolerate D.U.I. and Fleeing in an Auto to the extent that we do..We would put someone in prison who walked into a crowded classroom and began indiscriminately firing a gun but we seldom take any meaningful action against a D.U.I. offender or someone who flees from police in a vehicle unless someone gets killed. I think that's screwed up......

 

I agree, this is crazy. We have laws on the books to deal with the problem, but our judicial system is full of judges that tolerate the high rate of deaths due to DUI.....why don't people get to the poles at voting time and put an end to these judges. This is the only signal they understand.

[tallman]

Perhaps that a motorcyclist was killed by a drunk driver, again.

The fact that the victim was a LEO, and the driver an II, are merely details of this specific incident.

How many motorcyclists and bicyclists need to die before this is taken seriously?

How many pedestrians and people in cars need to die before we say, enough?

I'm ready, enough.

[W. Mazelin]

How many motorcyclists and bicyclists need to die before this is taken seriously?

How many pedestrians and people in cars need to die before we say, enough?

I'm ready, enough.

 

At least one more.

[Green RT]

<soapbox>

This is my opinion (obviously)...

Until we develop zero tolerance for drinking and driving, we are going to have DUIs and the resultant carnage. As long as it is acceptable to drink at all and get behind the wheel (handlebars), people will decide that they are sober enough to drive. It cannot be a judgment call. It should be cut and dried. If you are driving don't drink, at all. Not two drinks, not one, none! If you are drinking, don't drive. However, drinking and then driving is so ingrained in US society that I don't see it changing in my lifetime. I believe the Europeans are much stricter about this.

</soapbox>

[velomoto]

<soapbox>

I believe the Europeans are much stricter about this. </soapbox>

Yup, but we have drive thru liquor stores!!!

[11101110]

How many motorcyclists and bicyclists need to die before this is taken seriously?

How many pedestrians and people in cars need to die before we say, enough?

I'm ready, enough.

 

At least one more.

 

Enough

 

personally I think DUI should be treated as intended assault with a deadly weapon/attempted murder. Regardless of whether the person actually hurts someone.

[AZKomet]

Second degree murder?

 

Not sure what you intend here, however any DUI that results in a death is typically charged with 2nd degree murder, or in alternative negligent homicide or manslaughter. In cases like this the charge is severe upon arrest, but quite often being plead down to the lesser of the felony murders. In any event it stinks for all involved....the driver needs prison for this. He's lucky I am not the judge.

[BrianT]

The restaurant where he was employed at for five years didn't know he was illegal? Where was the Social Security money going to that would/should have been deducted from his paycheck each week?

He was probably using someone else's SSN or just a made up one that's no good. That's the common practice here in CA. The real problem with this which most people don't realize until it happens to them is if the SSN they use is yours. The IRS thinks you have unreported income because there's another business reporting income with your SSN. You then get a nice letter from the IRS saying you need to pay more taxes on the additional money they think you earned but didn't report and whatever penalties go along with that. Eventually you can get it straightened out, but good luck dealing with the IRS until it is fixed.

[BailyD]

I don't know the details of the incident but it seems like the driver 1) was unlicenced 2) DWI 3) caused a fatal crash 4) fled the scene of a fatal crash?

 

In liberal NJ this case would be a slam dunk for a minimum of 10 years in jail?

 

possible charges:

 

aggravated homicide

fleeing the scene of a fatal crash

causing a fatal crash w/ no driver's license

 

 

ok, I just read the story,

 

Rest assured this man is going to go to jail for a long time.

 

[Bonkorama]

About 8 years ago a drunk hit my mom in her car , a 1970 something caddilac, broadside from the passenger side. He nearly killed my sweet mom, who was 60 at the time. She never really was the same afterward.

 

5 years ago, an illegal drunk Mexican hit my brother and wis wife broadside about 10am in the morning and nearly killed my brother and seriously hurt his wonderful wife. He and his wife were hospitalized for a long time. The illegal ran from the scene, but due to his severe injuries, collapsed and was hospitalized as well. I hope he was deported. My brothers left arm is a problem for him now, but at least hes not dead.

 

I was hit by a drunk illegal Mexican about 10 years ago - rear ended. When I opened the door to his car, the guy actually fell out he was so drunk and because he and his wife were trying to swap seats to make it look like she was driving. It was thankfully a non-injury collision.

 

When i was younger, I used to wear bell-bottoms and listen to Bob Dylan and wanted all the world to hold hands. I wanted to teach the world to sing, yada yada yada...

 

Not anymore.

 

Drunk drivers should do time. Maybe getting poked in the can will help on thier road to recovery.

Drunks who murder with cars, should be locked up like drunks who murder withg guns or knives or bricks or baseball bats.

 

someone tell me its not just me.

[W. Mazelin]

someone tell me its not just me.

 

It ain't just you!

[bakerzdosen]

someone tell me its not just me.

Well, I agree with you in concept. However, in the spirit of what you're saying, I'll argue that it doesn't matter if you're White, Black, Latino, Asian, Polynesian/Pacific Islander, Native American, US citizen, illegal alien, or French... If you drive drunk, you're seriously endangering other people's lives. It's much more dangerous IMHO than going into a crowded public place and waving a gun around, and yet which one of those two things is more likely to get you locked up?

 

I personally don't drink, but I will fully defend the rights of those that want to drink - because it is your right (For those of you keeping track at home, I've even been an "enabler" ). I've been a designated driver at several BMWST (and others) events now, and I'm fine with that. I actually enjoy it at times. I've noticed that pretty much everyone at Torrey has had a real respect for laws/safety when drinking. They plan ahead by either having a DD or just walking. I think that's how it should be.

 

But, for those that do drive drunk, I think that stiffer penalties are in order. I don't have all the answers, but I'd fully support anyone who has a good plan.

[Twisties]

Put me in the camp with those that think DUI is bad, but can't see how IL status has anything to do with it. Show me some stats that IL's are any different in this respect than L's. Until then that issue is just more Rush/Hannity clabbertrap.

 

As for no alcohol at all and driving, this is neither practical nor necessary. The technology now exists for quick tests of blood alcohol (BA) levels. This technology needs to be deployed universally to drinkers, with appropriate instructions. Cars can be equipped so that they won't start if the driver is over the limit. I see these as solutions.

 

No alcohol at all is impractical because of a whole litany of reasons, just a few:

 

Given different rates of metabolism, different body weights, effects of various foods on BA, etc, just what is no alcohol... 2 hours after a drink? 12 hours after a drunk? Who can say?

 

How do you tell when a breathalyzer can be tripped by mouthwash, when there is alcohol in cough medicine, etc? Does no alcohol cover a rum baba?

 

The real issue here is impairment. Alcohol is one form. Driving while tired is another. Some prescription drugs are another. Some diseases are another, age may be another.

 

Frankly, I think the IBR rider that rear-ended a slow moving vehicle deserves EXACTLY the same treatment as a drunk IL. Did this person not intentionally drive while tired/impaired?

 

Ok, Flame suit on, Go for it, I'm ready! But is what I believe, truly.

 

Jan

[Lawman]

Rest assured this man is going to go to jail for a long time.

 

 

 

Possibly...Possibly not..to assume so is being naive..Would you still feel that way if it had been an elected public official that killed him?

[W. Mazelin]

Rest assured this man is going to go to jail for a long time.

 

 

 

Possibly...Possibly not..to assume so is being naive..Would you still feel that way if it had been an elected public official that killed him?

 

I would think the same if it was an elected official - maybe even moreso because I expect more from an elected official. I know it seems silly, and I also know full well that elected or not people break the law.

[EffBee]

. . .our judicial system is full of judges that tolerate the high rate of deaths due to DUI.....why don't people get to the poles at voting time and put an end to these judges. This is the only signal they understand.

 

Do you mean actually take action in order to bring about a reaction? That only works with Final Drives.

 

---

 

Seriously, it's a sad comment on the state of affairs in this country that laws written specifically to address certain crimes, and enforcement/jail codes written specifically to deter these crimes from recurring, are being taken by an elitist group of individuals to NOT mean what their authors, legislative supporters and represented citizenry MEANT them to mean, but are viewed only as "suggestions."

[smiller]

Seriously, it's a sad comment on the state of affairs in this country that laws written specifically to address certain crimes, and enforcement/jail codes written specifically to deter these crimes from recurring, are being taken by an elitist group of individuals to NOT mean what their authors, legislative supporters and represented citizenry MEANT them to mean, but are viewed only as "suggestions."

It's also a sad comment on the state of affairs in this country when people demand that legislators pass feel-good penalties (drug and three-strikes laws that sentence non-violent offenders to absurd prison terms, leaving in less room in prisons for the people that really need to be there), refuse to fund more prison space, and then blame the judges that are left in the middle for the mess. The US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world, and the answer many seem to have is... to jail more people.

 

We need to be jailing the right people, and so far removing that discretion from judges' hands in favor of politically expeditious easy answers hasn't been very effective. Apparently it sounds good, though.

[Twisties]

Seriously, it's a sad comment on the state of affairs in this country that laws written specifically to address certain crimes, and enforcement/jail codes written specifically to deter these crimes from recurring, are being taken by an elitist group of individuals to NOT mean what their authors, legislative supporters and represented citizenry MEANT them to mean, but are viewed only as "suggestions."

It's also a sad comment on the state of affairs in this country when people demand that legislators pass feel-good penalties (drug and three-strikes laws that sentence non-violent offenders to absurd prison terms, leaving in less room in prisons for the people that really need to be there), refuse to fund more prison space, and then blame the judges that are left in the middle for the mess. The US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world, and the answer many seem to have is... to jail more people.

 

We need to be jailing the right people, and so far removing that discretion from judges' hands in favor of politically expeditious easy answers hasn't been very effective. Apparently it sounds good, though.

 

+1

[EffBee]

Seriously, it's a sad comment on the state of affairs in this country that laws written specifically to address certain crimes, and enforcement/jail codes written specifically to deter these crimes from recurring, are being taken by an elitist group of individuals to NOT mean what their authors, legislative supporters and represented citizenry MEANT them to mean, but are viewed only as "suggestions."

It's also a sad comment on the state of affairs in this country when people demand that legislators pass feel-good penalties (drug and three-strikes laws that sentence non-violent offenders to absurd prison terms, leaving in less room in prisons for the people that really need to be there), refuse to fund more prison space, and then blame the judges that are left in the middle for the mess. The US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world, and the answer many seem to have is... to jail more people.

 

We need to be jailing the right people, and so far removing that discretion from judges' hands in favor of politically expeditious easy answers hasn't been very effective. Apparently it sounds good, though.

 

Amen. We need to get "victimless" crimes out of the Three Strikes program and put a Two Strikes limit on violent crimes and/or felonies involving a victim. Violate society's parameters once and society generously offers you a second chance to prove you deserve to coexist among us. Do it again and so long. And we need to back that up with the funds to jail the offenders and judges with the will to follow the law. I have no problem with tax dollars being efficiently spent on separating from society those who would harm us and who have already been found guilty, twice, in a court of law, of doing so.

[ghaverkamp]

And we need to back that up with the funds to jail the offenders and judges with the will to follow the law.

 

Which judges do you think are violating the law?

[Shaman97]

About 8 years ago a drunk hit my mom in her car , a 1970 something caddilac, broadside from the passenger side. He nearly killed my sweet mom, who was 60 at the time. She never really was the same afterward.

 

5 years ago, an illegal drunk Mexican hit my brother and wis wife broadside about 10am in the morning and nearly killed my brother and seriously hurt his wonderful wife. He and his wife were hospitalized for a long time. The illegal ran from the scene, but due to his severe injuries, collapsed and was hospitalized as well. I hope he was deported. My brothers left arm is a problem for him now, but at least hes not dead.

 

Let me guess...your family had medical bills to pay (copays/deductibles) while the persons that hit you family members had them paid for by the State.

[STICKMAN]

And what victimless crimes do you propose to take out of the three strike program?

[Twisties]

I was hoping we weren't going to go there!

 

[Lawman]

And what victimless crimes do you propose to take out of the three strike program?

 

I don't know of any victimless crimes but for starters if I were king I would eliminate a whole bunch of repeat violent offenders and parole a whole bunch of those there for drug possession and that would make a fair number of beds available for repeat DUI offenders and those who flee from police in a vehicle.

[AZKomet]

And what victimless crimes do you propose to take out of the three strike program?

 

I don't know of any victimless crimes but for starters if I were king I would eliminate a whole bunch of repeat violent offenders and parole a whole bunch of those there for drug possession and that would make a fair number of beds available for repeat DUI offenders and those who flee from police in a vehicle.

 

 

Parole none of them...take the trillion dollars spent for the Iraq war and build a few more prisons.

[jaytee]

And what victimless crimes do you propose to take out of the three strike program?

I suspect that he meant things like possession of non-approved drugs. Unlike legalized drugs where you have to actually be impaired and/or nearly kill someone to be incarcerated, non-approved drug possession gets you jail time. Merely possessing drugs without proper documentation (such as pain pills) or those not on an official government approved list (such as marajuana) is 'victimless' -- i.e. you cause no harm/distress/loss to other individuals of society. Yes, you can argue that there are aggregate costs to society for non-documented/non-approved drug possession, but those costs are many magnitudes *less* than the aggregate costs to society for legalized drugs such as alcohol, tobacco and prescription narcotics.

 

Unfortunately here in California, the mandatory sentencing laws mean that judges HAVE to put these 'victimless' 'criminals' into jail, thereby so overcrowding our prisons that true criminals (like people who commit rape, assault, grand larceny) rarely serve more than 60% of their terms - often far less.

 

Seems like making political hay out of conviction rates for these bull$#!t crimes is a pretty piss-poor policy to me.

 

JT

[smiller]

Unfortunately here in California, the mandatory sentencing laws mean that judges HAVE to put these 'victimless' 'criminals' into jail, thereby so overcrowding our prisons that true criminals (like people who commit rape, assault, grand larceny) rarely serve more than 60% of their terms - often far less.

So... wouldn't this be more the fault of the legislative process rather than the judicial..?

[SWB]

This whole part of the dialogue is extremely disturbing to me.

Why do illegal aliens get Defense attorney's? (yes I am assuming that one was appointed to him at taspayer's expense)

 

I guess for the same reason every illegal alien (and anyone else) goes before a criminal judge when they are arrested for committing crimes in this country. It must be of those annoying Constitutional things. The defense attorney is just doing his job as an officer of the court -- as you'd like him to do if it were you in the dock. Should he not? And I'm no lawyer (nor am I an illegal alien-lover nor a drunk-lover), but charging a drunk driver with murder seems dicey unless he's had a string of prior DWIs. Yes, the motorcyclist was killed, but was he murdered?

 

Yes.

 

• Never applied for a driver's license.
  
• Two outstanding bench warrants over other traffic violations.
  
• Illegally in this country; that alone makes him an "outlaw" in the classical, most accurate sense of the term.
  
• Drank 7 beers and then got behind the wheel of a car, sort of like playing Russian Roulette with his "gun" and anyone else's head, including your wife, son, daughter, niece, nephew, ...anyone who gets in his way.
  

 

How many people is a guy allowed to kill before one calls it "murder" instead of "an accident", a "twist of fate", "a horrible tragedy for all involved", or any of the other trite expressions which masks the guilt of the guilty while further victimizing the innocent.

 

Yes, he is a murderer, and he did commit murder. The man he killed deserved to live, and deserves justice. This man who murdered him must be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law.

[SWB]

Put me in the camp with those that think DUI is bad, but can't see how IL status has anything to do with it. Show me some stats that IL's are any different in this respect than L's. Until then that issue is just more Rush/Hannity clabbertrap.

 

Put me in the camp that says "illegals" have no right to be in this country, and it's not about right-wing or left-wing politics.

 

My wife is an immigrant. She came here legally. She obeyed the law. She's a patriotic American who loves this country, and holds it sacred over the country she was born and raised in.

 

Because of this country's screwed up immigration laws, her brother and his family will never cross the threshhold of an Airport in this country - never, even for a tourist visit. Yet millions of illegals have "first in line" privileges because they do not respect this country's national sovereignty. These illegal's kids are citizens now, yet my niece and nephew can never, ever be an American, because they were born "brown" in the wrong latitude and longitude, and they did not break our laws. I served my country in the military, as did my father, grandfather, and generations before him. Yet I can do nothing to change the status quo.

 

But heck, we can agree to disagree agreeably, and I have no problem riding with foreign nationals in their country, or here, as long as we both obey the laws. (After all, I'd be tossed in jail if I illegally entered Mexico, or most of the South American or Latin American countries.)

[PRC]

Some quotes that need to be addressed as to accuracy. I am not slamming or flaming the author and my comments should not be taken as such:

 

Cars can be equipped so that they won't start if the driver is over the limit. I see these as solutions.

 

These are called ignition interlock devices. We have them here in Fl. They are somewhat effective, however the offender can have someone else blow into the device to get the car to run. Yes the device can be programed to shut the car down at a certain time after the initial blow to ensure sobriety, however in my 20 years on the job, I have found it be successful only with the people who want to obey the law. The cost of the device is prohibitive to being used in every car made.

 

How do you tell when a breathalyzer can be tripped by mouthwash, when there is alcohol in cough medicine, etc?

 

The intoxilyzers are not fooled by mouthwash or the like. The amount of alcohol in mouthwash is so small that one would have to drink suck a massive quantity to even register a reading that it would make one sick from the other additives in the mouthwash. As for cough meds, same deal.

 

As a DUI enforcement officer, I have seen way to much of this junk. This cat made a decision to drink to excess. He planned to get FUBAR and as a result, killed an innocent person. Whats the difference between that and some fool drinkiong to excess and pulling a gun and killing a 5 year old in a grocery store that wouldn't shut up? There's still a weapon involved and there's still a dead person. Some would argue intent, I say bull. He knew he shouldn't have been driving, but did.

 

Have great weekend ride safe!

[BailyD]

Rest assured this man is going to go to jail for a long time.

 

 

 

Possibly...Possibly not..to assume so is being naive..Would you still feel that way if it had been an elected public official that killed him?

 

What are you getting at here?

[Lawman]

Rest assured this man is going to go to jail for a long time.

 

 

 

Possibly...Possibly not..to assume so is being naive..Would you still feel that way if it had been an elected public official that killed him?

 

What are you getting at here?

 

You seem sure that this man is going to prison for a long time..I wonder if you would be just as sure of a long prison sentence being served if the offender was your state senator? I seem to recall someone being drowned quite a while back by a drunk driver and I don't believe he served too much time..

[Dave McReynolds]

Aside from what a lot of you would like to see happen with regard to drinking and driving, what do you really expect to see happen when you look into your crystal ball? And if you don't like what you see in your crystal ball, can you think of anything that would change your prediction?

 

For example, let's go back into the 1950's and attend a legislative committee meeting in any state, and propose that cigarette smoking be banned in public places. You would probably get a blank stare as whoever you were talking to reached into his shirt pocket for his pack of cigarettes. Flash forward 50 years, and smoking is banned in most public places in most states. Why? People took seriously the cancer findings that were publicized in the 1960's, which gave them the incentive they needed to dump a habit they really wanted on some level to quit anyway, and when the number of reformed smokers reached a critical mass, laws changed.

 

Could the same thing happen with alcohol, or drinking and driving? There probably aren't any health studies out there that are going to make any news about hazards of drinking that we don't already know about, and I don't think people feel the same way about quitting drinking that they did about quitting smoking, so it can't happen in exactly the same way.

 

But it could happen, did happen in fact in the '20's, and could happen again, albeit in a somewhat different way. Can you envision a future 50 years from now where people regard drinking and driving like we regard smoking in public places now, and what happened to get us there?

[Lawman]

Excellent commentary!

Aside from doing what little I already do to make that happen I can only wish...

[BailyD]

Rest assured this man is going to go to jail for a long time.

 

 

 

Possibly...Possibly not..to assume so is being naive..Would you still feel that way if it had been an elected public official that killed him?

 

What are you getting at here?

 

You seem sure that this man is going to prison for a long time..I wonder if you would be just as sure of a long prison sentence being served if the offender was your state senator? I seem to recall someone being drowned quite a while back by a drunk driver and I don't believe he served too much time..

 

I would think that if I was investigating this fatal crash and all of the particular events led to DWI, reckless driving, leaving the scene of an accident, and I could prove it just like any other case I would certainly want WHOEVER it was to prosecuted.

 

Of course this isn't a perfect world and we could debate all day long how power corrupts and certain people are treated differently.

 

Regardless of who the person was or what their status was I would NEVER allow myself to be to act in an illegal manner during a fatal crash/homicide investigation.

[upflying]

Quote:

Cars can be equipped so that they won't start if the driver is over the limit. I see these as solutions.

 

Yes and I once arrested a DUI while he was driving with his 8 yr old daughter. Why was driving with his daughter? He needed her to blow into the ignition interlock. DUI's do not obey they law period! The need for a drink and to be drunk is far more important than obeying the law.

[Lawman]

 

 

"Regardless of who the person was or what their status was I would NEVER allow myself to be to act in an illegal manner during a fatal crash/homicide investigation. "

 

A subscript of my point was you should not assume this man will go to prison for a long time...You can however assume I've been watching these homicides occur again and again for a long time..

[taters]

well just add one more illegal to the prison system. now it stands at 500,001 and thats the truth!!!!!!

[BailyD]

It must be a Texas thing then if they aren't getting the convictions.

[Francis]

Maybe we need to get our legislators and our motorcycle organizations to work together to get DUI death classified as "murder" with appropriate sentencing. A dead victim is stil a dead victim with family that will miss him forever. The driver needs to be held fully accountable and responsible for the outcome of his acts.

[Lawman]

It must be a Texas thing then if they aren't getting the convictions.

 

Actually I was thinking of an incident that occurred in Chappaquidick, Massachusetts..